Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention (updated for 2021)

[Goro]

EDIT: Post in WAMC forum for recommended school lists. This thread isn't for that.

So you want to be a doctor, but your GPA is terrible. Is that the end? Rule #1: Take a deep breath, and stop fussing. The sky is not falling.

But you are going to need to reinvent yourself. This will take both time and money. And always remember that you’re in a marathon now, not a sprint. The following advice holds true for people considering MD and DO. I strongly recommend that you keep both in mind, and the latter is more tolerant of reinvention.

An even better summary to the next paragraph is provided by the wise HomeSkool here: Simple rules for retaking courses

Here’s what you need to do :

a) Contact your UG school's Registrar and see if you can get retroactive withdrawals for the failed classes. This is a thing at some schools and the worst that they'll tell you is "no".

b) IF you have F/D/C- grades in the pre-reqs, retake them. You need to show that you can master this material, and it will help you for MCAT (assuming that you haven’t taken the MCAT). In addition, many schools require a C or higher grade in pre-reqs. Naturally, this will vary from school to school.

If you got C's, take some upper level science classes and ace them. There is no need to retake a C unless you are very weak on the material and you need it for MCAT. Never, ever retake a B or B-.

If the material was from a long time ago, and you got a B, but you feel you need a refresher for the MCAT, simply audit the course instead.

c) There are MD schools that reward reinvention. All DO schools do. The DO path will be a little easier, but both still require an investment of 1-2 years of not GPA repair, but of transcript repair.

d) The goal is NOT to raise your cGPA to a sky high level (for some people this is mathematically impossible), but rather show that the you of now is not the you of then, and that you can handle a medical school curriculum. So do not worry that your cGPA will be 3.2 upon applying after finishing your post-bac/GPA. Rising GPA trends are always looked highly upon, and many med schools weight the last 2-3 years more than the entire cGPA.

e) Thus, take 1-2 years of a DIY post-bac, or a 1 year SMP, preferably one given at a medical school. Do well in either of these programs. A 3.5+ should suffice for a DO school, while 3.7+ will be needed for an MD school

5) in addition to d), your MCAT score will determine where to aim. I suggest:

513+ : MD schools

510+ : your state MD school and any DO school

505+: any DO school

On top of these, get as much patient contact volunteering time in as possible. A trend I am seeing from SDNers who have received interviews from good schools and who also reinvented themselves, is that they have lots of clinical volunteering or employment...some even in the 1000s of hours.

As to the pluses and minuses of post-bac vs SMP:

A formal post-bac program is geared toward career switchers, and mostly provide the pre-reqs, and probably some MCAT advice/prep as well. You get faculty guidance in this and some programs seem to be feeders to med schools for non-trad students. They will cost more though.

Now, you can do the same thing on your own by simply taking continuing education courses at any nearby college. A four year school will be preferable to a community college (CC), but if costs are an issue, then a CC will be OK. This path is what is known here in SDN as the “DIY post-bac.” Costs will be less, but there’s no guidance.

What classes should one take in a DIY post-bac??? Things that mimic a medical school curriculum!

Anatomy
Biochem
Bioinformatics
Biostats
Cell Bio
Developmental Biology or Embryology
Epidemiology
Histology
Immunology
Medical and/or Molecular Genetics
Med Micro OR Bacteriology and/or Virology
Molecular Bio
Neuroscience or Neurobiology
Parasitology (if offered)
Pathology
Physiology
Tumor or Cancer Biology

An SMP (special master’s program) is one that offers medical school classes, or material that’s taught in medical school. There are some two year SMPs, but I don’t see any advantage to these over one year programs.

These can be a backdoor into med school, and you get real advice from med school faculty (if given at a med school). Plus, you're a known quantity to the Adcom members, who will frequently be your SMP faculty.

The down side is that the tuition will be more considerable. You may also have to relocate in order to attend one. Also, if you do poorly, your SMP degree is worthless, unless the program has an added-value component, like some research venue. Thus, SMPs are more high risk, but also high reward.

I don't give recommendations as to individual SMPs or post-bac programs, because they're pretty much a dime-a-dozen.. You should go for:

1) the cheapest tuition
2) a program given at a host medical school
3) is one year in length
4) has the best linkage deal.

One final word of warning: Do NOT take the MCAT while enrolled in an SMP. We’ve seen students do this, and it leads to disaster. Some programs require an MCAT, so that solves the problem (although they may have a minimum score requirement!).

And remember, med schools aren’t going anywhere, and in fact, by the time you apply, several more will have opened their doors.

Good luck!

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[sarcasmrules]

If the material was from a long time ago, and you got a B, but you feel you need a refresher for the MCAT, simply audit the course instead.

I would like to add if it was from a long time ago, you might want to retake it because some medical schools have expirations for the prerequisites. To my knowledge, Cornell is the only school I am aware of and their expiration is 9 years.

What classes should one take in a DIY post-bac??? Things that mimic a medical school curriculum!

Anatomy
Biochem
Bioinformatics

Bioinformatics mimics the medical school curriculum!? NO WAY! I freaking loved that class. Can you elaborate on how bioinformatics is similar to the medical school curriculum? I always thought it was a more research based class for those interested in the PhD route.

 

[Goro]

I would like to add if it was from a long time ago, you might want to retake it because some medical schools have expirations for the prerequisites. To my knowledge, Cornell is the only school I am aware of and their expiration is 9 years.

Bioinformatics mimics the medical school curriculum!? NO WAY! I freaking loved that class. Can you elaborate on how bioinformatics is similar to the medical school curriculum? I always thought it was a more research based class for those interested in the PhD route.

It's an upper level Bio course, and the wave of the future, so it's useful.

 

[sarcasmrules]

It's an upper level Bio course, and the wave of the future, so it's useful.

That's true. Plus, I believe they recently established a new specialty called Medical Genetics.

 

[Goro]

Thanks for your guide- I have a question about gap years…

Is it better for a student who performed very poorly in UGrad to put time between the person they were then to the person they are now by delaying the application for a few years?

Example:
Student A graduates w/ a 3.0 GPA and decides to take a break from premed for 2 years and works in an unrelated field before comes returning for an SMP (and does well)
Student B graduates w/ a 3.0 GPA and immediately does the SMP (and does equally well)

That's totally up to the student.

 

[sarcasmrules]

It's an upper level Bio course, and the wave of the future, so it's useful.

In that case, I would also like to add Medical Genetics if your school offers it.

 

[Goro]

In that case, I would also like to add Medical Genetics if your school offers it.

It's already on the list

 

[sarcasmrules]

It's already on the list

Woops. I CTRL + F "medical genetics" and nothing popped up. Now I see why it didn't. Apologies!

 

[Kay_20]

So you want to be a doctor, but your GPA is terrible. Is that the end? Rule #1: Take a deep breath, and stop fussing. The sky is not falling.

But you are going to need to reinvent yourself. This will take both time and money. And always remember that you’re in a marathon now, not a sprint. The following advice holds true for people considering MD and DO. I strongly recommend that you keep both in mind, and the latter is more tolerant of reinvention.

EDIT: An even better summary to the next paragraph is provided by the wise HomeSkool here: Simple rules for retaking courses

Here’s what you need to do :

a) Contact your UG school's Registrar and see if you can get retroactive withdrawals for the failed classes. This is a thing at some schools and the worst that they'll tell you is "no".

b) IF you have F/D/C- grades in the pre-reqs, retake them. You need to show that you can master this material, and it will help you for MCAT (assuming that you haven’t taken the MCAT). In addition, many schools require a C or higher grade in pre-reqs. Naturally, this will vary from school to school.

If you got C's, take some upper level science classes and ace them. There is no need to retake a C unless you are very weak on the material and you need it for MCAT. Never, ever retake a B or B-.

If the material was from a long time ago, and you got a B, but you feel you need a refresher for the MCAT, simply audit the course instead.

c) There are MD schools that reward reinvention. All DO schools do. The DO path will be a little easier, but both still require an investment of 1-2 years of not GPA repair, but of transcript repair.

d) The goal is NOT to raise your cGPA to a sky high level (for some people this is mathematically impossible), but rather show that the you of now is not the you of then, and that you can handle a medical school curriculum. So do not worry that your cGPA will be 3.2 upon applying after finishing your post-bac/GPA. Rising GPA trends are always looked highly upon, and many med schools weight the last 2-3 years more than the entire cGPA.

e) Thus, take 1-2 years of a DIY post-bac, or a 1 year SMP, preferably one given at a medical school. Do well in either of these programs. A 3.5+ should suffice for a DO school, while 3.7+ will be needed for an MD school

5) in addition to d), your MCAT score will determine where to aim. I suggest:

513+ : MD schools

510+ : your state MD school and any DO school

505+: any DO school

On top of these, get as much patient contact volunteering time in as possible. A trend I am seeing from SDNers who have received interviews from good schools and who also reinvented themselves, is that they have lots of clinical volunteering or employment...some even in the 1000s of hours.

As to the pluses and minuses of post-bac vs SMP:

A formal post-bac program is geared toward career switchers, and mostly provide the pre-reqs, and probably some MCAT advice/prep as well. You get faculty guidance in this and some programs seem to be feeders to med schools for non-trad students. They will cost more though.

Now, you can do the same thing on your own by simply taking continuing education courses at any nearby college. A four year school will be preferable to a community college (CC), but if costs are an issue, then a CC will be OK. This path is what is known here in SDN as the “DIY post-bac.” Costs will be less, but there’s no guidance.

What classes should one take in a DIY post-bac??? Things that mimic a medical school curriculum!

Anatomy
Biochem
Bioinformatics
Biostats
Cell Bio
Developmental Biology or Embryology
Epidemiology
Histology
Immunology
Medical and/or Molecular Genetics
Med Micro OR Bacteriology and/or Virology
Molecular Bio
Neuroscience or Neurobiology
Parasitology (if offered)
Pathology
Physiology
Tumor or Cancer Biology

An SMP (special master’s program) is one that offers medical school classes, or material that’s taught in medical school. There are some two year SMPs, but I don’t see any advantage to these over one year programs.

These can be a backdoor into med school, and you get real advice from med school faculty (if given at a med school). Plus, you're a known quantity to the Adcom members, who will frequently be your SMP faculty.

The down side is that the tuition will be more considerable. You may also have to relocate in order to attend one. Also, if you do poorly, your SMP degree is worthless, unless the program has an added-value component, like some research venue. Thus, SMPs are more high risk, but also high reward.

I don't give recommendations as to individual SMPs or post-bac programs, because they're pretty much a dime-a-dozen.. You should go for:

1) the cheapest tuition
2) a program given at a host medical school
3) is one year in length
4) has the best linkage deal.

One final word of warning: Do NOT take the MCAT while enrolled in an SMP. We’ve seen students do this, and it leads to disaster. Some programs require an MCAT, so that solves the problem (although they may have a minimum score requirement!).

And remember, med schools aren’t going anywhere, and in fact, by the time you apply, several more will have opened their doors.

Good luck!

Is the 3.7+ GPA for the DIY post-bacc only? I have been told that medical schools will average your undergrad and post-bacc gpa's together. This concerns me.

 

[Goro]

Is the 3.7+ GPA for the DIY post-bacc only? I have been told that medical schools will average your undergrad and post-bacc gpa's together. This concerns me.

There are med schools that will weight your last few years more than the cGPA itself.

So you were told only part of the story.

 

[Kay_20]

There are med schools that will weight your last few years more than the cGPA itself.

So you were told only part of the story.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Kay_20]

Thank you for clarifying.

Also, do you happen to know which med schools will weight the last few years more? I never knew med schools like that existed.

 

[Goro]

Also, do you happen to know which med schools will weight the last few years more? I never knew med schools like that existed.

Wayne state is one. IIRC, you don't have an MCAT score, so until you make a real WAMC post, then I'll provide the list.
The reason I say this is that

a) It's a waste of time since you haven't finished your reinvention path
b) Thinking about particular med schools is a fool's errand at this point.
c) your job is to prove that you can handle med school. Focus on that.

 

[HannahSparkle]

Hey there, Goro.

I appreciate your reinvention thread which has been a valuable source for guidance.

I have a question for you if you don't mind.
How might a reapplicant improve his or her competitiveness assuming he or she has already completed an SMP, has a strong MCAT, and has no glaring weaknesses in his or her ECs? What would be next in this sort of situation?

 

[Goro]

Hey there, Goro.

I appreciate your reinvention thread which has been a valuable source for guidance.

I have a question for you if you don't mind.
How might a reapplicant improve his or her competitiveness assuming he or she has already completed an SMP, has a strong MCAT, and has no glaring weaknesses in his or her ECs? What would be next in this sort of situation?

Service to others less fortunate that one's self is always good.

You know how I say "don't apply until you're 100% ready"? Well, the reapplicant in question is ready. At some point, you have to step into the batter's box and face the pitcher.

 

[HannahSparkle]

Service to others less fortunate that one's self is always good.

You know how I say "don't apply until you're 100% ready"? Well, the reapplicant in question is ready. At some point, you have to step into the batter's box and face the pitcher.

Thank you.
The reapplicant was just pondering next inning and was briefly in danger of breaking LizzyM's "don't stress until Thanksgiving" rule.

 

[Kay_20]

Wayne state is one. IIRC, you don't have an MCAT score, so until you make a real WAMC post, then I'll provide the list.
The reason I say this is that

a) It's a waste of time since you haven't finished your reinvention path
b) Thinking about particular med schools is a fool's errand at this point.
c) your job is to prove that you can handle med school. Focus on that.

Greetings, I found a Parasitology course being offered at a local university. Is it beneficial to take the lab as well? Im thinking that the lecture alone would be ok but I’m looking for confirmation.

 

[Goro]

Greetings, I found a Parasitology course being offered at a local university. Is it beneficial to take the lab as well? Im thinking that the lecture alone would be ok but I’m looking for confirmation.

That's fine!

 

[BSMSMD]

@Goro I'll be applying to MAMS BU SMP soon for reinvention, but I am worried that I only have 8 months of research, and no LOR from my PI. How important is research for reinvention applicants?

 

[Goro]

@Goro I'll be applying to MAMS BU SMP soon for reinvention, but I am worried that I only have 8 months of research, and no LOR from my PI. How important is research for reinvention applicants?

It's not important as long as you learned something about the scientific process.

It's a pre-med delusion that you have to have a letter of recommendation from your PI. That's only for people hoping to go MD Ph.D

 

[barrelgrubber321]

@Goro this guide is really appreciated

My question is if SMP GPA's and MCAT scores can be balanced? Say, if the SMP GPA is about 0.05 lower than the 3.7 that is common for MD's, but the MCAT is 3-4 points higher than the 513 suggested. Is that "on the fence," or does the SMP GPA generally take precedence?

 

[Goro]

@Goro this guide is really appreciated

My question is if SMP GPA's and MCAT scores can be balanced? Say, if the SMP GPA is about 0.05 lower than the 3.7 that is common for MD's, but the MCAT is 3-4 points higher than the 513 suggested. Is that "on the fence," or does the SMP GPA generally take precedence?

This is going to be school specific.

 

[doclosh]

When doing a DIY post-bacc..

How are online courses considered? At my home university, some of the higher level biology courses/pharmacology courses are only offered online. Is this a big deal? (not pre-req courses)

 

[BioPsychotic]

When doing a DIY post-bacc..

How are online courses considered? At my home university, some of the higher level biology courses/pharmacology courses are only offered online. Is this a big deal? (not pre-req courses)

+1 to this question

I am taking DIY post-bacc courses next semester (registering next week). Some upper level bio classes are online only.

 

[Goro]

With COVID still raging, online coursework is still OK in my book

 

[Goro]

State of residence?

 

[tone42]

State of residence?

CA! Sorry I should have made that more clear.

 

[Goro]

Thoughts on DO programs to add? I currently have Western (Ponoma), Touro (CA/NV), and AZCOM. Wanting to apply to maybe 5-10.

Add PacNW, both Westerns, UIW, PCOM, KCOM, KCU, TUNCOM

My MD school list: all UCs, Keck, Kaiser, MSU-CHM, Oakland University Beaumont, Western Michigan, Qunnipiac, NOVA, U of Miami, Loyola Stritch, Tulane, Tufts, Hackensack, NYMC, Albany, Hofstra, Wake Forest, Lewis Katz (maybe), Thomas Jefferson, Drexel, EVMS, MCW, Robert Larner, George Washington, Georgetown, Creighton.

Thank you for all that you do!

Delete UCR if you're not from the Inland Empire. I have modified your list to rule out OOS state schools where you're just be making a donation, as they favor the home team, even for strong OOS candidates.

ADD: SLU, Duke, Pitt, Mt Sinai, Rush, Rosy Franklin

 

[tone42]

Add PacNW, both Westerns, UIW, PCOM, KCOM, KCU, TUNCOM

Delete UCR if you're not from the Inland Empire. I have modified your list to rule out OOS state schools where you're just be making a donation, as they favor the home team, even for strong OOS candidates.

ADD: SLU, Duke, Pitt, Mt Sinai, Rush, Rosy Franklin

Thank you!!

 

[Roleks]

Hi Goro and everyone reading this thread,

Thank you for taking the time to put together this guide, it has been instrumental to mine and likely many other students' success in getting into medical school. I wanted to share my story for anyone who is looking at this thread as they begin their journeys to reinvention.
I received an acceptance my top choice US MD school earlier this month after graduating college with a 2.7GPA, barely any research and no meaningful extracurriculars.
Here is what I did in my journey to reinvention:

1. Got a job in a research field I was passionate about and that allowed having a more or less flexible schedule.
2. Enrolled in 2-3 upper level science courses every semester and did well in them (A-/A, a B+ here and there).
- oftentimes if you work for a hospital/university they will offer tuition assistance to cover the cost of classes.
3. Continued shadowing and exploring different specialties. Don't use this to check the box but rather as motivation to continue your journey.
4. Engaged in service, both clinical and to those less fortunate than me. Again, do the things you are truly passionate about as it allows for meaningful reflection during the application process and interviews.
5. Showed initiative. I went to far lengths to create service and research opportunities for myself if they were not already present. Don't be afraid and remember: if there is a will, there is a way.
6. Learned how to be patient. This is key as reinvention is largely dependent on resilience, patience and good time management skills to balance academics and the ECs you may be involved in. I would compare this to attrition warfare, as the last one standing is likely to come out a winner.

In the end my numbers were still far from competitive with <3.0cGPA and 507-509 MCAT. However, with evidence of a robust upward trend, genuine interest and dedication to my research and service activities and a well-crafted school list, I was able to secure an acceptance at my top choice school. Remember, there is so much more to you than the numbers in your GPA and MCAT grids. Don't forget why you embarked on this journey in the first place and stay true to yourself.

Please feel free to DM me with any questions and, once again, thank you Goro for putting together this guide that helped me achieve my dream.

 

[irie88]

Hi @Goro,

I was wondering if I could get some advice on what to do. My cGPA is about a 3.2 and my sGPA is about 2.95. During college, I had a physical illness that wasn't diagnosed until later during college and before that was constantly diagnosed as a mental illness which it wasn't. The main point being it severely impacted my cognition and I didn't know. It's fully resolved now.

I complete all the pre-med requirements during college, albeit poorly. I thought I was just being lazy and slacking, but wasn't.

What would you recommend I do? My grades are all over the place. Like 1 semester 1 B+ and 3 As, when illness was responding to treatment, next semester I was barely holding on when it got bad. In all, I have three Cs (1 in a non-science course) and a D in a science course. I'm really frustrated, because the reason I did poorly in school didn't have anything to do with academics. I was just unlucky.

I was thinking of applying May/June 2023. In the meanwhile, I was thinking of taking the MCAT this year, finding some clinical job to do for the next year and a half, and thinking doing a DIY post-bacc two courses each semester. I'm just really confused. I was told to focus on upper level biology courses. I think another big issue for me is I don't feel comfortable getting LORs from UG since I really barely held on most of it.

Could it be possible to spend the next year and a half doing working in the day, taking course by night, and just constructing a decent app with LORs? I think my model would be something super similar to what Roleks did, but obviously, I need to make sure I am 100% prepared.

I went to a top 5 school, so I think my sad story will at least raise some curiosity, or I guess alarm.

 

[Goro]

Hi @Goro,

I was wondering if I could get some advice on what to do. My cGPA is about a 3.2 and my sGPA is about 2.95. During college, I had a physical illness that wasn't diagnosed until later during college and before that was constantly diagnosed as a mental illness which it wasn't. The main point being it severely impacted my cognition and I didn't know. It's fully resolved now.

I complete all the pre-med requirements during college, albeit poorly. I thought I was just being lazy and slacking, but wasn't.

What would you recommend I do? My grades are all over the place. Like 1 semester 1 B+ and 3 As, when illness was responding to treatment, next semester I was barely holding on when it got bad. In all, I have three Cs (1 in a non-science course) and a D in a science course. I'm really frustrated, because the reason I did poorly in school didn't have anything to do with academics. I was just unlucky.

I was thinking of applying May/June 2023. In the meanwhile, I was thinking of taking the MCAT this year, finding some clinical job to do for the next year and a half, and taking doing a DIY post-bac two courses each semester. I'm just really confused. I was told to focus on upper level biology courses. I think another big issue for me is I don't feel comfortable getting LORs from UG since I really barely held on most of it.

Could it be possible to spend the next year and a half doing working in the day, taking course by night, and just constructing a decent app with LORs? I think my model would be something super similar to what Roleks did, but obviously, I need to make sure I am 100% prepared.

I went to a top 5 school, so I think my sad story will at least raise some curiosity, or I guess alarm.

For starters, retake any of the pre-reqs where you did worse than a C.

Have no clue about night classes; if you can find them, take them. BUT, it is imperative that you ace these classes. Only you can answer the question as to whether you can work full time and do well with two night classes/semester.

 

[irie88]

For starters, retake any of the pre-reqs where you did worse than a C.

Have no clue about night classes; if you can find them, take them. BUT, it is imperative that you ace these classes. Only you can answer the question as to whether you can work full time and do well with two night classes/semester.

Thank you so much Goro. I appreciate your are making time for the newbies.

In my case, the cheapest most convenient option would be something like the Harvard Extension school which has nighttime, pre-med courses. They both have an unstructured pre-med program, or I could just take courses on my own.

The only big issue I see with them is thier courses are online right now. I am assuming that online courses should be avoided since I need LORs from these courses?

I'm thinking of taking one course during the summer (perhaps retaking the D-grade course which was an chem class). Then during Fall 2022 take two upper level biology courses, then spring 2023 maybe two more biology courses.

 

[Goro]

Thank you so much Goro. I appreciate your are making time for the newbies.

In my case, the cheapest most convenient option would be something like the Harvard Extension school which has nighttime, pre-med courses. They both have an unstructured pre-med program, or I could just take courses on my own.

The only big issue I see with them is thier courses are online right now. I am assuming that online courses should be avoided since I need LORs from these courses?

I'm thinking of taking one course during the summer (perhaps retaking the D-grade course which was an chem class). Then during Fall 2022 take two upper level biology courses, then spring 2023 maybe two more biology courses.

Med schools themselves are still doing online classes, so you can't be faulted for taking online classes yourself.

 

[BreFutureMD]

Hello @Goro,

I was hoping I could get your opinion. I have a 3.25 cGPA and a 2.9 sGPA, and I am currently doing an SMP in Physiology which I will complete in the summer. I have not taken the MCAT yet and I am building up my EC’s. My parents had some serious medical issues during the first two years undergrad so my focus was off, but I did well my last two semesters earning a spot on Dean’s Scholar List for a 4.0 GPA.

I guess I am just wondering if doing well in the SMP will still encourage schools to consider me as far my gpa is concerned. If not, I was considering doing a DIY post back as well. Thanks in advance for any advice!

 

[Goro]

Hello @Goro,

I was hoping I could get your opinion. I have a 3.25 cGPA and a 2.9 sGPA, and I am currently doing an SMP in Physiology which I will complete in the summer. I have not taken the MCAT yet and I am building up my EC’s. My parents had some serious medical issues during the first two years undergrad so my focus was off, but I did well my last two semesters earning a spot on Dean’s Scholar List for a 4.0 GPA.

I guess I am just wondering if doing well in the SMP will still encourage schools to consider me as far my gpa is concerned.

The answer is yes!

See if you can retroactively withdraw from any bad grade courses in your UG. Contact your school's registrar to find out if you can. This is a thing at some schools.

Does your SMP have linkage to a med school?

 

[BreFutureMD]

The answer is yes!

See if you can retroactively withdraw from any bad grade courses in your UG. Contact your school's registrar to find out if you can. This is a thing at some schools.

Does your SMP have linkage to a med school?

The answer is yes!

See if you can retroactively withdraw from any bad grade courses in your UG. Contact your school's registrar to find out if you can. This is a thing at some schools.

Does your SMP have linkage to a med school?

Sorry for the delayed repose, it’s final exam time and I have been so occupied 🙃 but thank you the response, it’s relieving to hear! I’ll be sure to look into the retroactive withdraw because that’s something I wasn’t too aware of it. Unfortunately, my SMP does not have a direct linkage, will that impact anything?

 

[Goro]

Well, without direct linkage, you lack the benefit of med school faculty who know you directly.

Still, your program has to have sent grads to med schools, so they're a known quantity somewhere!

 

[BreFutureMD]

Well, without direct linkage, you lack the benefit of med school faculty who know you directly.

Still, your program has to have sent grads to med schools, so they're a known quantity somewhere!

Yeah, it’s the NC State Master of Physiology Program. I found it through the AAMC post bacc list, and they have testimonies of students matriculating at Duke, Wake Forest, UNC and other OOS med schools and DO schools too.

 

[crrbs]

Hello @Goro

I have a 3.4/3.2 GPA. Testing for the MCAT on 4/30. Should I be planning a post-bac?

I'm Hispanic and from Texas. I have a lot of clinical experience (>2000hrs as emt) and decent community service. Unsure if I should apply this cycle or wait.

Haven't taken my mcat. Is there any mcat score that would make me competitive this cycle? Like, a 510+? 513+? 515+?

 

[Goro]

Hello @Goro

I have a 3.4/3.2 GPA. Testing for the MCAT on 4/30. Should I be planning a post-bac?

I'm Hispanic and from Texas. I have a lot of clinical experience (>2000hrs as emt) and decent community service. Unsure if I should apply this cycle or wait.

Haven't taken my mcat. Is there any mcat score that would make me competitive this cycle? Like, a 510+? 513+? 515+?

Yes you should be planning for post back, unless you have a mess of rising GPA trend. And I kept score of higher than 5/16 might get some interest right now

 

[ellewoods1234]

Reinventor with an MD acceptance, wanted to share my story here as I attribute a lot of my success to following @Goro advice. Multiple D’s and F’s in prereq courses (all retaken with A’s) which led to poor GPAs. 3.9 senior year, 4.0 one year all science DIY post bacc, 513 MCAT, 8,000+ clinical hours. It’s not easy, but bad grades don’t have to mean the end of your medical school dreams if you’re willing to put in the extra time and work to overcome them

 

[GoPenguinsGo]

8,000+ clinical hours.

may or may not be a super important detail that was just glossed over

 

[ellewoods1234]

may or may not be a super important detail that was just glossed over

Goro literally includes in the post that many successful reinventors have high clinical hours even into the 1000s and I included my numbers to show how that advice probably contributed to my acceptance as a reinvention applicant, so not really glossed over..

 

[GoPenguinsGo]

Goro literally includes in the post that many successful reinventors have high clinical hours even into the 1000s and I included my numbers to show how that advice probably contributed to my acceptance as a reinvention applicant, so not really glossed over..

90% of your post is about your GPA turnaround… with this ever so important nugget about your clinical hours sprinkled in the mix.

I’d call that glossed over.

 

[ellewoods1234]

90% of your post is about your GPA turnaround… with this ever so important nugget about your clinical hours sprinkled in the mix.

I’d call that glossed over.

Well the first time I applied with ~5k clinical hours before the post bac and had 0 interviews, so can say with confidence that hours alone won’t get you anywhere if the schools aren’t convinced you can perform academically. And when I said put in the extra time and work, I meant like actual work, like a clinical job/volunteering and not just studying. But I’m not going to discuss with you further if for some reason you feel the need to keep picking at my post. As a struggling premed the past few years, I would’ve found it helpful to hear from someone with a similar background having success, so that’s all I was looking to do was give someone else a little nugget of hope to stay motivated and keep working on their application

 

[Goro]

may or may not be a super important detail that was just glossed over

Definitely an important detail!!! But single metrics do not make an app-!!

 

[aspiringdoctorbigdreams]

Hello!

Thank you Goro, for this detailed guidance on deciding upon reinvention.

I just wanted some insight on my case.

I was initially a biomedical engineering major and I switched majors to Biology in my senior year of undergrad. Spent the next four semesters taking 65 credits for the degree with a 3.8 (only two Bs, the rest are all As).

All of this only brought up my sGPA to 3.1 and my cGPA to 3.0.
Given that I have had a strong record for the last 65 credits, I am hoping to apply to an SMP and get a 4.0.

I see similar stats a lot on here but I don’t see anyone with success stories from SMPs with similar stats. I am really scared that I am banking on very little chances to go to medical school.

I am ORM and my ECs as of now:
~ 500 hours in a lab in my campus’ med school
~ 500 hours of clinical experience
~ 250 hours of non-clinical hours
(Both coming from a clinical research internship for covid and cancer)
~ 60 hours shadowing
~ 250 volunteer hours

I am yet to take my MCAT but FLs all average around 515-518.

Do I stand a chance for MD at all? I will definitely be applying to DO. I just want to know my chances at MD.

Also, do you suggest that I apply to medical school while beginning my SMP? Because I’m graduating in December and SMPs start in Fall, I do not want to waste an extra year by waiting to apply after SMP (which will lead to another gap year).
However, I know my stats are extremely low and I want to know if I’m risking it.

Please point me in the right direction.
Thank you for your help!

 

[Goro]

All of this only brought up my sGPA to 3.1 and my cGPA to 3.0.
Given that I have had a strong record for the last 65 credits, I am hoping to apply to an SMP and get a 4.0.

It's not about the cGPA anymore!! I think that you have done enough reinvention that an SMP isn't needed.

I see similar stats a lot on here but I don’t see anyone with success stories from SMPs with similar stats. I am really scared that I am banking on very little chances to go to medical school.

Those success stories are indeed out there, even if they don't post about it.

~ 500 hours of clinical experience
~ 250 hours of non-clinical hours
(Both coming from a clinical research internship for covid and cancer)
~ 60 hours shadowing
~ 250 volunteer hours

Did you have actual patient contact experience during this research? What exactly did you do?

Do I stand a chance for MD at all? I will definitely be applying to DO. I just want to know my chances at MD.

Impossible to answer without an MCAT score.

Also, do you suggest that I apply to medical school while beginning my SMP?

Nope. If you get into a SMP, you need to finish that and then apply.

Because I’m graduating in December and SMPs start in Fall, I do not want to waste an extra year by waiting to apply after SMP (which will lead to another gap year).

Ahh, I see. Well, in your case, apply.

BUT, take the MCAT before you start the SMP!!!!!!!!!

 

[BioPsychotic]

Hello. I am planning on taking a few DIY credits this semester.

Planning on taking Surgical Anatomy and Intro to Molecular Biology. Is it okay that one of the courses is classified as "intro"? It's a 2000-level course, and the anatomy course is 4000-level.