End of Grade Replacement?

[Nikj]

I think this is going to have a bigger affect on DO schools than anyone currently realizes.

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[IslandStyle808]

+1

+1

Going "pre-like" period. Awesome!

 

[ElysaMS]

I can understand your argument but i think this move is too drastic. AACOMAS should utilize the last 60-90 credit policy many MD schools use. That way re-invention applicants are not left in the cold but you get credit for doing your coursework right the first time.

There are MD schools that do this? I had no idea

 

[Dochopeful13]

I think this is going to have a bigger affect on DO schools than anyone currently realizes.

Please elaborate.

 

[getfat]

Wow January 4th is going to be a high traffic day for SDN

@Goro is there any chance we could set up a petition to AACOM about this?

I don't expect immediate change or return to previous policy but i think its important that we make our voice heard about this dramatic change. Possibily gain some insight from AACOM for future applicants who were banking on this policy.

Edit: Wrong date

 

[starspells]

There are MD schools that do this? I had no idea

Wayne State and one of the LA state schools

 

[Nikj]

Please elaborate.

As other people have been mentioning, a lot of students who have higher GPA's like 3.4-3.6 and apply to DO schools are students that have grade replacement, where otherwise their gpas might be much lower. I really doubt all DO schools are going to go out of their way to re-calculate every single applicants gpas just to find ones that might be qualified. This will really change the overall number of students who meet the schools requirements and the type of students that are applying. I'm sure you can figure the rest from there.

 

[getfat]

There are MD schools that do this? I had no idea

LSU-Shrevenport and Wayne state are two that come to mind. Haven't looked in a while so I could be wrong. Someone please correct me if this has changed.

 

[ElysaMS]

Thanks guys, that's awesome to know!

 

[deleted572522]

Well to get into LSU, you have to be a La resident, and to get into Wayne State you have to be a Michigan resident. So you have no chance if you're not from either of those two states

 

[starspells]

Well to get into LSU, you have to be a La resident, and to get into Wayne State you have to be a Michigan resident. So you have no chance if you're not from either of those two states

This isn't true for Wayne State. They're rather OOS friendly. LSU has a strong in-state bias, however.

 

[efle]

The current AACOMAS Repeat Coursework Policy drops initial course attempts from the GPA calculation. Over the past several years, this policy has caused confusion among applicants, pre-health advisors, and colleges, and is one of the top questions received by AACOMAS customer service. AACOM recognizes the need to streamline application policies and instructions, and we anticipate this new policy will ensure a fair, consistent, and transparent application process for all applicants.

This is so weak. I can't imagine anyone is going to buy it that they just HAD to switch the system RIGHT NOW WITH NO WARNING because they were getting too many FAQs about it. What a load of nonsense.

One other thing of interest from this post on osteopathic.org about a meeting last month:

"This year, the COCA has approached the Standards Revision Process a bit differently from prior years. This was brought about by our recent United State Department of Education (USDE) renewal of recognition as an accrediting agency. In that petition review, it was determined that the COCA standards, policies, and procedures potentially allow for inconsistency in decision making. Thus, a recommendation was put forth that we complete a comprehensive standards revision"

Maybe someone much more in the know than myself can take a guess at whether this is related at all

 

[flyingjoshua05]

How would the DO schools go about honoring the grade replacement policy, if they do, though? Wouldn't they have to individually and manually recalculate based on your transcript? That seems like a lot of work in the face of "streamlining" the process. Why would schools go out of their way to do this?

From experience, some schools make you input all your grades again during the secondary application. My guess would be that if they wanted to continue a grade replacement policy they'd do it in this step.

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[Nikj]

From experience, some schools make you input all your grades again during the secondary application. My guess would be that if they wanted to continue a grade replacement policy they'd do it in this step.

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But many secondaries depend on students having the minimum gpa/mcat requirements that are sent through AACOMAS, so they will just get screened out before even being considered, no? This is really gonna change things up.

 

[Lawpy]

Good; They should get rid of OMM next, and the comlex.
Also the time is not wasted folks, if you were getting As it will boost your GPA.

i agree. there is absolutely no reason for the continued difference between the MD and DO degrees especially if DO regulatory bodies want to be like their MD counterparts.

 

[Lawpy]

Not sure if someone else has mentioned this, but this policy might be a step towards the elimination of the DO degree altogether.

*sigh* The sky is not falling.

not immediately sure but if DO regulatory bodies want to so desperately be like their MD counterparts, the differences between the two will wither away and disappear. this makes the DO degree effectively obsolete in the long run, thus facilitating the inevitable DO-to-MD conversion, with the weaker and more volatile DO schools being wiped out. the strong ones like KCUMB, CCOM, MSUCOM etc. will essentially become very respected mid and mid/upper-tier MD schools (see UC Irvine).

hopefully AOA/COCA gets rid of COMLEX and drastically improve the quality of clinical rotations in the coming years.

 

[ctran019]

With the grade replacement policy, I was able to increase from 3.48cGPA and 3.10sGPA to 3.68cGPA and 3.48sGPA. Now without grade replacement, all i've done is gone up to a 3.49cGPA (+0.01) and a 3.13sGPA (+0.03). Those screens I was avoiding will now likely kill my app. The only hope is if adcoms look closely at my app and see the last 42 credits, 35 of which were science courses (including those retake classes this past Fall), and see a 3.78cGPA and 3.83sGPA.

@Goro what are your thoughts? Could those last 42 courses save my app with a 505+ score on the MCAT? Or do i need to continue going to school full-time and continue showing that upward trend?

You will be automatically screened off by many established schools that have a 3.25 minimum as I was this cycle. However, my MCAT didnt do me any favors.

 

[Shammyguy3]

You will be automatically screened off by many established schools that have a 3.25 minimum as I was this cycle. However, my MCAT didnt do me any favors.

That's why i'm upset - i received multiple interviews in a previous cycle but no acceptance. One of the persons interviewing me told me if i don't get in, that i should go back and retake classes X, Y, and Z and take an upper level course or two. I did exactly what he said lol, aced everything and now it was for a very marginal GPA improvement.

Which school have a hard cutoff that I would miss? KCU and CUCOM are the three I know of for sure. Are there any others that have a GPA cutoff higher than 3.00 for science GPA?

 

[kuzy]

That's why i'm upset - i received multiple interviews in a previous cycle but no acceptance. One of the persons interviewing me told me if i don't get in, that i should go back and retake classes X, Y, and Z and take an upper level course or two. I did exactly what he said lol, aced everything and now it was for a very marginal GPA improvement.

Which school have a hard cutoff that I would miss? KCU and CUCOM are the three I know of for sure. Are there any others that have a GPA cutoff higher than 3.00 for science GPA?

I think VCOM is 3.2

 

[iwh]

This is the full email I received from an advisor earlier today. Clearly he paid no mind to the fact that he was supposed to hold off until Thursday..


"Please see the below notice which will be distributed to students tomorrow (Wednesday) afternoon regarding a change in AACOMAS policy for the next application cycle. We wanted to ensure you were aware of this change, but ask that you not forward this information until Thursday after our website and AACOMAS customer service goes live with the notice. In an effort to increase transparency, the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine (AACOM) Board of Deans approved the following resolution regarding the AACOMAS Repeat Coursework Policy:

Effective May 1, 2017, AACOMAS will include all course attempts in the GPA calculation. This change applies to students matriculating into the 2018-2019 academic year. In the event of multiple attempts of the same course, AACOMAS will no longer drop initial course attempts from the GPA calculation.

Effective May 1, 2017, applicants using the 2017-2018 application cycle Reapplicant feature in AACOMAS for matriculation into the 2018-2019 academic year must adhere to the new policy. Therefore, AACOMAS will automatically update previously verified repeated coursework to ensure all applications adhere to the new policy.

We will notify current applicants by email tomorrow afternoon, Wednesday, January 4. Specific details regarding the new policy can be found below and will be posted on the AACOM website on January 4. We again ask that you not distribute this information until Thursday, January 5, so that we have time to inform our audience and ensure that we have updated the information on our website. After that time, please feel free to forward this message to any advisors, faculty advisors, and/or colleagues that work with pre-med students.

Should you have additional questions, please email AACOMAS Customer Service at [email protected].

Notice: Change to AACOMAS Repeat Coursework Policy for 2017-2018 AACOMAS Application Cycle

In an effort to increase transparency, the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine (AACOM) Board of Deans has approved the following resolution regarding the AACOMAS Repeat Coursework Policy:

Effective May 1, 2017, AACOMAS will include all course attempts in the GPA calculation. This change applies to students matriculating into the 2018-2019 academic year. In the event of multiple attempts of the same course, AACOMAS will no longer drop initial course attempts from the GPA calculation.

The current AACOMAS Repeat Coursework Policy drops initial course attempts from the GPA calculation. Over the past several years, this policy has caused confusion among applicants, pre-health advisors, and colleges, and is one of the top questions received by AACOMAS customer service. AACOM recognizes the need to streamline application policies and instructions, and we anticipate this new policy will ensure a fair, consistent, and transparent application process for all applicants.

In the upcoming 2017-2018 AACOMAS application cycle, applicants will continue to identify repeated courses during coursework entry, but they will no longer enter 0.00 credit hours for initial attempts. Credit hours for all attempts will be entered as they appear on the official transcript and all grades will be averaged. The AACOMAS application instructions will be updated in advance of the 2017-2018 application cycle to reflect this change in policy. We anticipate that this change will enable applicants to move through the coursework entry section of the AACOMAS application more quickly and with greater accuracy.

Effective May 1, 2017, applicants using the 2017-2018 application cycle Reapplicant feature in AACOMAS for matriculation into the 2018-2019 academic year must adhere to the new policy. Therefore, AACOMAS will automatically update previously verified repeated coursework to ensure all applications adhere to the new policy.

Osteopathic medical schools may continue recalculating and weighing applicant GPAs and repeated courses per their established admissions practices. The scope of this policy change is limited to the AACOMAS verified GPA calculation."


In a nutshell, AACOMAS is going live with the announcement tomorrow. According to this email the purpose of the policy change is to "streamline the application process". *rolls eyes*

Just me or does that last paragraph make it seem like maybe.. just maybe... some DO schools may continue to honor grade replacement?.

TBH I think it does kind of look like they MIGHT still honor it. I don't know how else to interpret that last paragraph. But if I'm reading it right, then the entire rest of the email is contradicted.

 

[ElysaMS]

TBH I think it does kind of look like they MIGHT still honor it. I don't know how else to interpret that last paragraph. But if I'm reading it right, then the entire rest of the email is contradicted...

I guess it sounds like there's no requirement DO schools follow the AACOMAS verified GPA calculation. Maybe through secondaries it will become more common for them to ask for grades to be re-entered. AACOMAS changing procedure doesn't require the institutions to change theirs. I don't think it contradicts the previous info, but it will be nice to hear soon from DO institutions how they will be responding to this change.

At this point might as well just lump AACOMAS and AMCAS together so it's cheaper to send out apps for both if it's all the same.

 

[SurgDoc95]

I guess it sounds like there's no requirement DO schools follow the AACOMAS verified GPA calculation. Maybe through secondaries it will become more common for them to ask for grades to be re-entered. AACOMAS changing procedure doesn't require the institutions to change theirs. I don't think it contradicts the previous info, but it will be nice to hear soon from DO institutions how they will be responding to this change.

At this point might as well just lump AACOMAS and AMCAS together so it's cheaper to send out apps for both if it's all the same...

If they did this I would hope they'd use the aacomas app since amcas isn't as user friendly

 

[pseud0]

I simply don't understand the people in this thread thinking that this move will lower the average GPA for matriculants at DO schools. They ain't gunna do that. These schools have like 90 percent+ rejection rate...you really think there aren't enough people who meet their GPA targets the traditional way without grade replacement to take the place of those who may have gotten in previously with grade replacement instead? All it does is weaken the overall quality of their admitted applications because some of those grade replacers could be better in other areas. It's pretty ironic actually

 

[summergirl]

I can't believe they would do this to future applicants. Such dramatic policy changes should be made public at least one whole year prior to the application opening day of the year being affected. I can't imagine how difficult this must be for those who have been working hard to retake their classes. May luck be with all of you. It may turn out to be not as bad as we think though, because the average applicant GPA will for sure drop due to this, so they will have to be more lenient with how they judge an applicant's GPA. Let's just hope this is the case.

 

[summergirl]

I simply don't understand the people in this thread thinking that this move will lower the average GPA for matriculants at DO schools. They ain't gunna do that. These schools have like 90 percent+ rejection rate...you really think there aren't enough people who meet their GPA targets the traditional way without grade replacement to take the place of those who may have gotten in previously with grade replacement instead? All it does is weaken the overall quality of their admitted applications because some of those grade replacers could be better in other areas. It's pretty ironic actually

Actually, these applicants without grade replacements may be accepted into MD, leaving the DO school to take someone lower on their list. For example, many DO schools have average matriculating GPAs near 3.5. An applicant with 3.5 without grade replacement has a shot at their state MD school if all other areas of the application is acceptable. Not saying they will get into MD for sure, but they definitely has a much bigger chance of getting into MD than someone who got that 3.5 through grade replacement.

 

[SurgDoc95]

I simply don't understand the people in this thread thinking that this move will lower the average GPA for matriculants at DO schools. They ain't gunna do that. These schools have like 90 percent+ rejection rate...you really think there aren't enough people who meet their GPA targets the traditional way without grade replacement to take the place of those who may have gotten in previously with grade replacement instead? All it does is weaken the overall quality of their admitted applications because some of those grade replacers could be better in other areas. It's pretty ironic actually

Honestly trying to improve the overall stats of DO program matriculants isn't a bad thing.

 

[icevyne25]

This likely plays in favor of applicants who have a GPA too low for MD schools, in the 3.4-3.6 range, but do not have any course repeats.

Is that correct? Because they will now have an advantage over the DO applicants who had turned their GPA into a 3.4-3.6 using grade forgiveness.

I only ask because my little brother falls into that category. He wants to go MD after graduating this spring but I've always told him to just keep DO as a backup plan. He probably becomes a more attractive applicant for DO schools now based on this policy change, right?

I think so too. That was my take as well. Most definite will lower the average gpa for DO schools by getting rid of those high gpa applicants that were mostly grade replaced.


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[starspells]

Honestly trying to improve the overall stats of DO program matriculants isn't a bad thing.

That's not what most people have an issue with here...it's more the extremely late notice. Many have spent thousands of dollars retaking classes hoping to utilize the grade replacement policy. That's no longer an option because the new policy will go into effect this upcoming cycle.

 

[SurgDoc95]

That's not what most people have an issue with here...it's more the extremely late notice. Many have spent thousands of dollars retaking classes hoping to utilize the grade replacement policy. That's no longer an option because the new policy will go into effect this upcoming cycle.

I don't disagree with the fact that the late notice isn't very fair. All that I've been trying to say is that the idea of grade replacement as a whole is something that I don't necessarily agree with. To those of you who have been working to fix your grades with the understanding that this was a viable option for you I 100% feel for you and hope there is a solution from the AACOM!

 

[radian313]

It is indeed frustrating. I can feel for the folks that spent $$$ to get that certain GPA. I too wish it was announced earlier way in advance like MCAT2015 was. Everyone literally knew about it. There was a designated cut off and everyone had ample time to adhere to it. Its like passing a law "effective XYZ date that is far in the future" you cannot do "xyz".

 

[deleted446889]

My situation is not nearly as bad as other poor souls on here, but this puts me in a really tricky spot...

My cGPA is 3.4, but my sGPA is currently 2.9. I was planning on retaking two classes which would put it at 3.2, but now I'd have to take 8 classes to do the same as I have a ton of credits...I simply can't afford to do that.

Taking two more science classes will now put me at a 3.03 sGPA...with a good-great MCAT, will that be enough to squeeze in somewhere? If not I'm really lost on how to move forward. I really, really, really don't want to do an SMP.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Wcm21]

Feel really bad for a lot of people that spent so much time and money banking on grade replacement and won't see it work out how they wanted. I didn't know about it going into this cycle and as someone who slacked off in college but still managed to pull a 3.45 I feel it is slightly unfair that someone who also slacked off but got C/D/F's instead of the A/B's I got and then retook the classes gets those C/D/F's wiped from their gpa. I think someone should definitely be rewarded for reinvention though and for those people that did poorly for legitimate reasons so I'm conflicted on the whole policy. Ultimately it's very unfair to not give an appropriate warning to applicants. And as someone with a 3.45 gpa who is patiently hoping for an acceptance to come in the mail any day now it's frustrating to me that if I applied next year I likely would've been a more competitive applicant. Guess I'm on the much better side of things though

 

[Goro]

I beleive U UT also has the same. But there are even more that look at the last 2-3 years than these; I'm just blanking on them. State schools seem especially prone ot it (favoring, not blanking).

Wayne State and one of the LA state schools

LSU-Shrevenport and Wayne state are two that come to mind. Haven't looked in a while so I could be wrong. Someone please correct me if this has changed.

Oh, fer crying out loud! There's so much wishful thinking in this thread now that my sinuses are starting to leak out of my nose. Stop with mindless speculation! DO schools aren't going anywhere and neither is the degree. What you guys don't realize is that DOs are proud of being DOs, especially the ones in medical education. CCOM isn't going convert over to MD, so don't hold your breath. And don't bother bringing up the change that made UCI, either. There were a LOT of politics in that one, and it happened about a half-a-century ago too, when mindsets about Osteopathy were a lot different from the MD side.

Look, I get it that AACOMAS did a foolish thing. I disagree with them as well. But again, the sky is not falling.

not immediately sure but if DO regulatory bodies want to so desperately be like their MD counterparts, the differences between the two will wither away and disappear. this makes the DO degree effectively obsolete in the long run, thus facilitating the inevitable DO-to-MD conversion, with the weaker and more volatile DO schools being wiped out. the strong ones like KCUMB, CCOM, MSUCOM etc. will essentially become very respected mid and mid/upper-tier MD schools (see UC Irvine).

hopefully AOA/COCA gets rid of COMLEX and drastically improve the quality of clinical rotations in the coming years.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I don't disagree with the fact that the late notice isn't very fair. All that I've been trying to say is that the idea of grade replacement as a whole is something that I don't necessarily agree with. To those of you who have been working to fix your grades with the understanding that this was a viable option for you I 100% feel for you and hope there is a solution from the AACOM!

Its one of the few things I respected about COCA. Now that they are taking it back when things are getting good for them, makes me respect them less. They live by a double standard and only care about their self preservation. I will give you one example.

Before the merger, they stated that schools have to guarantee that 95% of their students match into residency. Otherwise school would have to face COCA and possible repercussions. My respect for them went up. When the merger happened, they suddenly took off the policy. It because they are too scared having to penalize a ton of DO schools and put the whole DO profession into turmoil.

It easier to push their standard onto prospective applicants rather than enforce and raise the standards of DO schools across the nation. My respect for them has now reached a new low.

 

[starspells]

Oh, fer crying out loud! There's so much wishful thinking in this thread now that my sinuses are starting to leak out of my nose. Stop with mindless speculation! DO schools aren't going anywhere and neither is the degree. What you guys don't realize is that DOs are proud of being DOs, especially the ones in medical education. CCOM isn't going convert over to MD, so don't hold your breath. And don't bother bringing up the change that made UCI, either. There were a LOT of politics in that one, and it happened about a half-a-century ago too, when mindsets about Osteopathy were a lot different from the MD side.

Look, I get it that AACOMAS did a foolish thing. I disagree with them as well. But again, the sky is not falling.

Do you think DO schools will have their own GPA calculator w/ grade replacement in their secondary apps? At least that would be somewhat helpful to many applicants!

 

[deleted572522]

PNWU will not use credit replacement for sure at any stage of the application process in the future. Hopefully, that information helps someone in making their school list.

 

[swollcat]

Do you think DO schools will have their own GPA calculator w/ grade replacement in their secondary apps? At least that would be somewhat helpful to many applicants!

I believe some schools will do in-house calculations via an added component of the secondary, but it is just SO much easier to adhere to this new policy and leave everyone out to dry...

 

[ElysaMS]

Do you think DO schools will have their own GPA calculator w/ grade replacement in their secondary apps? At least that would be somewhat helpful to many applicants!

It's all super-speculative at this point. Some probably will, but who knows who or how many? It'll just come down to individual schools responding as this is implemented.

 

[starspells]

I believe some schools will do in-house calculations via an added component of the secondary, but it is just SO much easier to adhere to this new policy and leave everyone out to dry...

Yup. I guess we can only wait and see.

 

[779663]

If this were to happen would the students who graduate from those schools a few years before they changed to MD still be DOs or would they be awarded an MD degree?

Hypothetically of course

Can you just give me a quick rundown of what COCA and LCME are and the differences between them?

 

[SurgDoc95]

Can you just give me a quick rundown of what COCA and LCME are and the differences between them?

I would love to but I don't know specifics

 

[779663]

I would love to but I don't know specifics

What are they even? Everyone seems to be discussing them in this thread. Are they just accrediting bodies of med schools?

 

[SurgDoc95]

What are they even? Everyone seems to be discussing them in this thread. Are they just accrediting bodies of med schools?

Yes COCA is for DO schools while LCME is for MD schools. Other than that I can't tell you what there respective accreditation standards are.

 

[zero0]

I simply don't understand the people in this thread thinking that this move will lower the average GPA for matriculants at DO schools. They ain't gunna do that. These schools have like 90 percent+ rejection rate...you really think there aren't enough people who meet their GPA targets the traditional way without grade replacement to take the place of those who may have gotten in previously with grade replacement instead? All it does is weaken the overall quality of their admitted applications because some of those grade replacers could be better in other areas. It's pretty ironic actually

I'm inclined to agree. Not too long ago (last app cycle actually) there was a stir on these forums because AACOMAS changed their grade replacement policy in a much less drastic way. Some hinted that it was a sign of things to come and seemed to imply that the DO applicant pool was getting competitive to the point where grade replacement wasn't necessary to inflate the numbers anymore. Well, sure enough here we are. I just never imagined it would be so soon and with such short notice.

FWIW I really doubt this will have any impact on the entry stats of DO schools. I doubt COCA would have made this move if they anticipated it would reflect negatively on their schools or the profession. Fact is, DO schools get tons of applications and have tons of qualified applicants to choose from now, even if they're on average below MD applicants.

The whole osteopathic profession is going through some pretty big renovations. Expect things to only get more MD-like from here.

 

[edgerock24]

This is terrible news.

And it's pretty funny how the individuals who don't think it is a big deal are people who are 1) current medical students (i.e. poster above) or 2) people already accepted to medical school.

 

[IslandStyle808]

This is terrible news.

And it's pretty funny how the individuals who don't think it is a big deal are people who are 1) current medical students (i.e. poster above) or 2) people already accepted to medical school.

I guess you didn't read my rant above...

or didn't know I'm a medical student. I have a heart too...

 

[779663]

This is terrible news.

And it's pretty funny how the individuals who don't think it is a big deal are people who are 1) current medical students (i.e. poster above) or 2) people already accepted to medical school.

I'm accepted and I think it's terrible. I'm only in due to grade replacement. I turned a 3.01 GPA after five years in my undergrad into a 3.54 by retaking courses and busting my ass to get a 4.0 in them.

I called AACOMAS once during my first semester doing this to clarify something and they told me that there was actually no guarantee that they have grade replacement by the time I got around to applying. My heart sank and I literally prayed every night that this wouldn't happen to me.

I'm thankful it didn't but I feel so terrible for those of us who have to rethink things and make tough choices. It isn't fair to you all, you've spent years of your life working hard towards an honorable career for yourselves on a promise that has been broken by aacomas with no recourse. I really do sympathize and I wish there was something I could do

 

[edgerock24]

I guess you didn't read my rant above...

or didn't know I'm an MS-1

No. I read what you said and know you're a MS-1. I agree with everything you stated.

That doesn't make up for several others who don't think this change is going to make a difference in matriculation statistics. Or the guy who just "doesn't agree with grade replacement" or whatever.

 

[pseud0]

yep its an awful thing to acknowledge but this is pretty good news for anyone that doesn't need grade replacement or is already accepted at a DO program/already a student. Makes the programs look more legit. The real **** news is that they didn't announce it like 3 years in advance.

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

How can they just automatically enforce such a rule without a notice? Even a years notice would have been sufficient. This is crazy. Hopefully my GPA is acceptable.