End of Grade Replacement?

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Look man, maybe this is funny/entertaining to you, but this has sort of been Earth shattering news for me. And I'm now hastily trying to get information/understanding on how to proceed.

Do you have any information/advice/guidance? If not, please go laugh at my misfortune privately. Right now I'm desperately trying to find answers.

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Look man, maybe this is funny/entertaining to you, but this has sort of been Earth shattering news for me. And I'm now hastily trying to get information/understanding on how to proceed.

Do you have any information/advice/guidance? If not, please go laugh at my misfortune privately. Right now I'm desperately trying to find answers.

Your best course of action is to make your own post-bacc with the intention of acing each class. Adcoms will recognize the upward trend, even without full-on grade replacement.

You also need to grow as an individual: find a community service program inside, or outside, the medical field and put in 1-2 days weekly while completing your studies.

You will need a DO letter (or two). Pick your favorite local osteopathic medical school and shadow physicians directly associated with their teaching program. Make sure they know your intent at the start. If you're nowhere near a DO school, find osteopathic docs and shadow them. Several of them. Network.

If your MCAT isn't abysmal, doing what I said will net you an acceptance. Patience. GL.
 
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Look man, maybe this is funny/entertaining to you, but this has sort of been Earth shattering news for me. And I'm now hastily trying to get information/understanding on how to proceed.

Do you have any information/advice/guidance? If not, please go laugh at my misfortune privately. Right now I'm desperately trying to find answers.
Goro’s advice for DO applicants in the absence of grade replacement
I think considering most of us had our Earth shattered back in January when this information came out we are not necessarily over it but have come to terms with it and ready to joke about it a little. Don't get me wrong, I was probably the most upset I have been this last year when I found out. It took me from a 3.5 to a 3.1. I have eight interview invites this cycle, it still worked out. Get your extracurriculars in line and you'll be fine
 
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Your best course of action is to make your own post-bacc with the intention of acing each class. Adcoms with recognize the upward trend, even without full-on grade replacement.

You also need to grow as an individual: find a community service program inside, or outside, the medical field and put in 1-2 days weekly while completing your studies.

You will need a DO letter (or two). Pick your favorite local osteopathic medical school and shadow physicians directly associated with their teaching program. Make sure they know your intent at the start. If you're nowhere near a DO school, find osteopathic docs and shadow them. Several of them. Network.

If your MCAT isn't abysmal, doing what I said will net you an acceptance. Patience. GL.

Thank you very much for your advice.
 
Goro’s advice for DO applicants in the absence of grade replacement
I think considering most of us had our Earth shattered back in January when this information came out we are not necessarily over it but have come to terms with it and ready to joke about it a little. Don't get me wrong, I was probably the most upset I have been this last year when I found out. It took me from a 3.5 to a 3.1. I have eight interview invites this cycle, it still worked out. Crush the MCAT get your extracurriculars in line and you'll be fine

Yup, I've been going through that thread and any others I can find. And I understand, I think most of you guys were ready to apply and got emails from the AACOMAS service or whatever. I was planning on finishing my pre reqs including retakes this year and applying next summer, so I literally just got the news while scrolling around SDN for something totally different.

Unfortunately I'm nowhere near your stats. Grade replacement was my only shot due to a lot of stupid mistakes made as an immature, idiotic 17 year old at a competitive UC. Hence, I mentioned the part about SMP grade cutoffs and any potential pre-screening. I have no problem doing an SMP if that's what I have to do to get to Med school, but I knew virtually nothing about those until yesterday, and with my stats w/out replacement, I may not even clear the cutoffs for SMP's (depending on how strictly they adhere to those cutoffs).
 
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For the 2.7-3.0 GPA'ers out there? Low tier podiatry school coupled with a decent (500+) MCAT is the only way you are getting into "medical school" at that point. Hope you like feet!

Wait, so for those people who were really banking on grade replacement, and might not even get into an SMP due to GPA requirements, what option is there now?

At that point do you just retake any pre reqs you did poorly in, and do a DIY post-bacc and hope that some SMP will appreciate an upward trend and good MCAT? Or will SMP's just pre-screen?
 
Wait, so for those people who were really banking on grade replacement, and might not even get into an SMP due to GPA requirements, what option is there now?

At that point do you just retake any pre reqs you did poorly in, and do a DIY post-bacc and hope that some SMP will appreciate an upward trend and good MCAT? Or will SMP's just pre-screen?
Unfortunately, there are very few options. It depends how far down the rabbit hole you are. My advise is to contact SMP programs directly, express your situation and then constantly show that you have the dedication and drive to be at those programs if you want to pursue this career. However, I think that you need to evaluate if there are alternative paths like NP, podiatry, etc. that may give you a satisfying career. You need to have an objective view on this, which I know is extremely hard to do.
 
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For the 2.7-3.0 GPA'ers out there? Low tier podiatry school coupled with a decent (500+) MCAT is the only way you are getting into "medical school" at that point. Hope you like feet!
And at many schools podiatry students and medical students study side-by-side. I think it's unfortunate that podiatry is seen so negatively by some people. I understand that working with feet is not for everyone, but if that is not something you are completely averse to, it can be a fantastic career where you mix clinic, surgery and knowledge of radiology. I'd even go as far as saying that I would take podiatry over some specialties in medicine.
 
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To me, Pods are where DOs were in the 60s right now in terms of respect and parity in the medical/professional world. Within the last 7 years they required a minimum 3 year residency, upped their standards, have a tight rein on how many schools there are (something DO schools should be looking into), and they have almost fixed their residency problem. I foresee the future to be very bright for pods, and many of the students in the top tier programs like AZPOD and DMU (both of which take classes literally with the DO students there) have very high numbers, some even matching the low tier DO schools.

Podiatry is a really cool profession that gets passed over a ton. Its just much more appealing for "premeds" to think of themselves in ten years as "cardiologists" or "plastic surgeon" or any other high end specialty instead of a lowly podiatrist. Funny thing is, most DOs end up in general internal or family med, which is very much looked down on in the medical community (at least from what my MD graduated friends tell me).

I think eventually the stigma will change.

And at many schools podiatry students and medical students study side-by-side. I think it's unfortunate that podiatry is seen so negatively by some people. I understand that working with feet is not for everyone, but if that is not something you are completely averse to, it can be a fantastic career where you mix clinic, surgery and knowledge of radiology. I'd even go as far as saying that I would take podiatry over some specialties in medicine.
 
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To me, Pods are where DOs were in the 60s right now in terms of respect and parity in the medical/professional world. Within the last 7 years they required a minimum 3 year residency, upped their standards, have a tight rein on how many schools there are (something DO schools should be looking into), and they have almost fixed their residency problem. I foresee the future to be very bright for pods, and many of the students in the top tier programs like AZPOD and DMU (both of which take classes literally with the DO students there) have very high numbers, some even matching the low tier DO schools.

Podiatry is a really cool profession that gets passed over a ton. Its just much more appealing for "premeds" to think of themselves in ten years as "cardiologists" or "plastic surgeon" or any other high end specialty instead of a lowly podiatrist. Funny thing is, most DOs end up in general internal or family med, which is very much looked down on in the medical community (at least from what my MD graduated friends tell me).

I think eventually the stigma will change.
Medicine is a never ending pissing contest where everyone looks down upon everyone else.

"Neurosurgeon? *****. Doesn't sleep, wasted 7 years and will never have a family."
"Plastic Surgeon? Really? You went to school for fake boobs?"
"Radiologist? Who even reads the crap they write? Gotta always double check what they do and go with your clinical judgment"
"Cardiologist? LOL enjoy putting stents on fat americans and smokers"
"Psychiatrist? You mean, not a real doctor"

so on and so forth. It really takes maturity to be able to just do your thing and not let anyone dictate what you think of yourself.
 
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Unfortunately, there are very few options. It depends how far down the rabbit hole you are. My advise is to contact SMP programs directly, express your situation and then constantly show that you have the dedication and drive to be at those programs if you want to pursue this career. However, I think that you need to evaluate if there are alternative paths like NP, podiatry, etc. that may give you a satisfying career. You need to have an objective view on this, which I know is extremely hard to do.

Sure, I am ready to be objective and do that, there's only one problem (for those of us with varying sub-3.0 GPA's w/out replacement) - from the limited research I've done over the last few days, many NP and Podiatry schools also seem to have something close to a 3.0 cutoff (please correct me if I am wrong).

If I were able to beat a 3.0 GPA screen without replacements, I would apply to SMP's right after clearing Pre-reqs. But I'm guessing if you can't clear SMP cutoffs, you won't clear NP or Podiatry cutoffs either.

That's also why I was questioning if SMP's do screening and strictly adhere to cutoffs.
 
many NP and Podiatry schools also seem to have something close to a 3.0 cutoff

Eh the podiatry cut offs I've seen are usually around 2.6ish depending on the school (someone is free to correct me as I'm not 100% certain). NP programs require you to have a nursing degree first and honestly getting into a somewhat decent nursing program isn't that difficult. During the nursing program just make sure you get good grades during that as they won't care about previous undergrad grades as long as you do decent in nursing school. There are also some crappy NP programs that will take about anyone but you don't want one of those.
 
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Sure, I am ready to be objective and do that, there's only one problem (for those of us with varying sub-3.0 GPA's w/out replacement) - from the limited research I've done over the last few days, many NP and Podiatry schools also seem to have something close to a 3.0 cutoff (please correct me if I am wrong).

If I were able to beat a 3.0 GPA screen without replacements, I would apply to SMP's right after clearing Pre-reqs. But I'm guessing if you can't clear SMP cutoffs, you won't clear NP or Podiatry cutoffs either.

That's also why I was questioning if SMP's do screening and strictly adhere to cutoffs.
Most podiatry schools don't have automatic cutoffs. Not saying they'll necessarily accept any sub 3.0 applicant that comes their way, but they'll at least review the application in its entirety and there is a chance of getting in if you stand out in other areas.

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Most podiatry schools don't have automatic cutoffs. Not saying they'll necessarily accept any sub 3.0 applicant that comes their way, but they'll at least review the application in its entirety and there is a chance of getting in if you stand out in other areas.

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So I can at least expect to have the other parts of my application looked at and considered right? Pod schools won't just screen me out? Wow, that's a big relief if true. Right now that's what I'm struggling with, the possibility that any work done to repair undergrad GPA, any post bacc and any great MCAT performance might all be completely missed if I don't clear the screens of SMPs and Grad schools (DO, Pod etc).
 
So I can at least expect to have the other parts of my application looked at and considered right? Pod schools won't just screen me out? Wow, that's a big relief if true. Right now that's what I'm struggling with, the possibility that any work done to repair undergrad GPA, any post bacc and any great MCAT performance might all be completely missed if I don't clear the screens of SMPs and Grad schools (DO, Pod etc).
I had a sub-3.0 cGPA but a 3.5+ sGPA and a 32 MCAT and relevant work experience. I was only rejected immediately from 2/9 schools (there are only 9 podiatry schools) and was extended invites from the other 7/9. I was accepted to all three that I interviewed at. If you don't at least look into podiatry, then you're doing yourself a disservice.

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Absolute screenwise, I don't think pod schools have a "hard cutoff", but they have ranges they accept. The lower tiered schools I have seen people accepted with 2.6, but that was at Kent State. Other schools "soft minimums" are like 3.0


Eh the podiatry cut offs I've seen are usually around 2.6ish depending on the school (someone is free to correct me as I'm not 100% certain). NP programs require you to have a nursing degree first and honestly getting into a somewhat decent nursing program isn't that difficult. During the nursing program just make sure you get good grades during that as they won't care about previous undergrad grades as long as you do decent in nursing school. There are also some crappy NP programs that will take about anyone but you don't want one of those.
 
I had a sub-3.0 cGPA but a 3.5+ sGPA and a 32 MCAT and relevant work experience. I was only rejected immediately from 2/9 schools (there are only 9 podiatry schools) and was extended invites from the other 7/9. I was accepted to all three that I interviewed at. If you don't at least look into podiatry, then you're doing yourself a disservice.

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Thanks so much for this info, I didn't know much about Podiatry before as I was totally set on replacing my bad grades and applying to DO school, but now with this new policy change, I am going to look into it very seriously.
 
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I would deffinantly recommend at least looking at what podiatry has to offer.

Be advised, SHADOW A POD!! Every pod school asks why podiatry. The podiatrist I shadowed was super cool, and most pods coming out are. There is very little medicine wise that pods don't do. Some schools have even thought about incorporating OMT into podiatry specific courses at the DO schools that have pod schools.


So I can at least expect to have the other parts of my application looked at and considered right? Pod schools won't just screen me out? Wow, that's a big relief if true. Right now that's what I'm struggling with, the possibility that any work done to repair undergrad GPA, any post bacc and any great MCAT performance might all be completely missed if I don't clear the screens of SMPs and Grad schools (DO, Pod etc).
 
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Thanks so much for this info, I didn't know much about Podiatry before as I was totally set on replacing my bad grades and applying to DO school, but now with this new policy change, I am going to look into it very seriously.

It really is a pretty good gig, one of those careers that is a diamond in the rough so to speak. If I hadn't of gotten into medical school I would have gone pod. Also if you peruse the acceptance threads over the pod section there are people getting decent scholarships even with lower GPAs if they are solid in other areas so there is that too.
 
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Absolute screenwise, I don't think pod schools have a "hard cutoff", but they have ranges they accept. The lower tiered schools I have seen people accepted with 2.6, but that was at Kent State. Other schools "soft minimums" are like 3.0

So with soft minimums, is it basically a situation where an app below 3.0 will be looked at (and not screened out), but then you need to be outstanding in other fields (MCAT, EC's etc) to get in?
 
Yeah.

So let's look at a higher tiered Pod school like DMU. their range for the science GPA was 2.85-3.9 and their overall GPA range was 3.1-4.0 and MCAT 491-505. So someone had a sub 3.0 science GPA, but they were prolly strong in anouther area to compensate, like bob said, he rocked the mcat.

Now at pod school with a large class size, like Kent or Temple, they are much more lenient on their minimums because they have to fill their class. Kent State and Schols are prolly the easiest schools to get into (note: doesn't make them worse or easier to get through the curriculum than the more selective ones)

I would hop on over to the pod forums, there is a podiatry school handbook out there somewhere that shows the ranges of mcat and GPA scores. Plus, prepods tend to be super chill and helpful.

Pods also make really good money. Their data is harder to find uniformity for than other physicians, but general salaries since the addition of the 3 year residency have seen pod earnings raise as well. You can expect to earn 120K-200k during your first five years. After that, really the sky is the limit. Pods with Ortho groups have reported numbers in the 400k range! 400k is certainly the upper end of the scale, but not impossible to achieve.

As a reference, the pod I shadowed graduated back in like 2013 and she told me she had something like a 3.1 and a 16 MCAT. Nobody else took a chance on her, but now she is a practicing doctor doing all kinds of surgical and clinical care for her patients. Pods can make a ton of impact on the day to day living of people, and can even save lives! (gas gangrene). It also afford a little less of a hectic hour schedule for a surgical specialty, tho if you want to work late hours, you certainly can.

Granted, these low scores were a couple years ago, scores have been slowly increasing over the years and since this news about DO grade replacement kinda blindsighted everyone, get in while you still can. From what I see in the forums and from my own experience, DO schools are unaffected by the grade replacement policy, and are still picking high GPA MCAT score people.

So with soft minimums, is it basically a situation where an app below 3.0 will be looked at (and not screened out), but then you need to be outstanding in other fields (MCAT, EC's etc) to get in?
 
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Yeah.

So let's look at a higher tiered Pod school like DMU. their range for the science GPA was 2.85-3.9 and their overall GPA range was 491-505. So someone had a sub 3.0 science GPA, but they were prolly strong in anouther area to compensate, like bob said, he rocked the mcat.

Now at pod school with a large class size, like Kent or Temple, they are much more lenient on their minimums because they have to fill their class. Kent State and Schols are prolly the easiest schools to get into (note: doesn't make them worse or easier to get through the curriculum than the more selective ones)

I would hop on over to the pod forums, there is a podiatry school handbook out there somewhere that shows the ranges of mcat and GPA scores. Plus, prepods tend to be super chill and helpful.

Pods also make really good money. There data is harder to find uniformity for, but general salaries since the addition of the 3 year residency have seen pod earnings raise as well. You can expect to earn 120K-200k during your first five years. After that, really the sky is the limit. Pods with Ortho groups have reported numbers in the 400k range! 400k is certainly the upper end of the scale, but not impossible to achieve.

As a reference, the pod I shadowed graduated back in like 2013 and she told me she had something like a 3.1 and a 16 MCAT. Granted, this was a couple years ago, scores have been slowly increasing over the years and since this news about DO grade replacement kinda blindsighted everyone, get in while you still can. From what I see in the forums and from my own experience, DO schools are unaffected by the grade replacement policy, and are still picking high GPA MCAT score people.
Definitely some good info here. Did you end up going to pod school Gypsy?
 
Granted, these low scores were a couple years ago, scores have been slowly increasing over the years and since this news about DO grade replacement kinda blindsighted everyone, get in while you still can. From what I see in the forums and from my own experience, DO schools are unaffected by the grade replacement policy, and are still picking high GPA MCAT score people.

I still have to knock out my pre-reqs, so I certainly wouldn't be applying for another year. But if there's a sudden rush to Pod schools, as you kind of seem to be implying, and there are only 9 schools total; then I'm worried.

Is there any indication of more Pod schools opening up in the near future?
 
Eh the podiatry cut offs I've seen are usually around 2.6ish depending on the school (someone is free to correct me as I'm not 100% certain). NP programs require you to have a nursing degree first and honestly getting into a somewhat decent nursing program isn't that difficult. During the nursing program just make sure you get good grades during that as they won't care about previous undergrad grades as long as you do decent in nursing school. There are also some crappy NP programs that will take about anyone but you don't want one of those.

I was reading several threads about NP's on here, and came away a little concerned. A couple of the threads I read were incredibly long and seemed to be mainly MD's and DO's, and they didn't seem too happy with NP's. Many were even suggesting flat out refusing to hire them, and others felt that rather than letting "midlevels encroach" on their "turf," they should just build more Med schools (and expand seats at existing ones), and incentivize Doctors towards Primary Care (especially in rural areas) to meet any "shortage" of providers with more Doctors, instead of Midlevels.

Since you have way more knowledge and experience on this matter; is NP still something worth going into with a good outlook? Or could NP's collapse in the future as some implied due to a combination of backlash from Doctors who want to protect their "turf," and also a slew of malpractice cases against NP's who go "independent?"

I'm sorry if my questions seem silly, but since I know very little about alternative routes like NP or Pod, I'm trying to quickly learn as much as I can before making such an important decision as to what to pursue now.
 
No more pod schools opening up. About 5 years ago there was a residency crisis where something like 60 students did not get residencies. The reason for this was there was a huge influx of applications back in 2008-2009 during the economic collapse, so people rushed into "recession proof" professional schools like pharmacy, medical, dental, pod, etc. and they did not increase the amount of residencies (sound families DO schools?). At this same time, the accrediting body forced all pod residencies to be a 3 year foot and ankle surgical residency program, where before you could do just 2 years and only work on foot or a 3 year foot and ankle, which closed off a good number of residencies. This combined with the massive applicant influx caused a big residency shortage, and people not being able to get a residency, even after getting their degree. So the Pod schools put a moritorium on class size and school openings and instead focused on hospitals to start more residencies.

Fast foreword 5 years and now there is a surplus of residencies! However, history has a tendency to repeat itself, so I would get in ASAP so that you get to be on the receiving end of a residency surplus in 4 years and not a shortage.

You do not want more schools to open up. Everything now is good, keep the education solid, worry about expansion once you have served the current students.

I doubt you will have trouble next year, especially if you make a great year this next year, gradewise (schools love seeing an upward trend). Last year there was actually a shortage of applicants, so this year with grade replacement gone, it might only see a 5% increase. But don't wait too long, it only takes a couple cycles for bio students with worthless degrees to end up getting a worthless masters and finding out that a 20% MCAT, even with a masters in biology, isn't going to cut it for MD/DO school. Podiatry becomes very attractive at that point, as I think people are waking up to the carribean not being a good deal.

What is ur current GPA and what is your projected (realistic wise) GPA when you apply? Have you taken the mcat yet?

I still have to knock out my pre-reqs, so I certainly wouldn't be applying for another year. But if there's a sudden rush to Pod schools, as you kind of seem to be implying, and there are only 9 schools total; then I'm worried.

Is there any indication of more Pod schools opening up in the near future?
 
If you end up nabbing both a pod acceptance and a NP one, I would go pod, hands down.

NPs are encroaching on physician space more and more and focusing their gaze to primary care and the easy to get into speclities. NPs are unlikely to occupy the foot and ankle realm, since not many doctors want to anyway. To many people, "Podiatrist" is just not sexy as saying "cardiologist" or "endocrinologist" at a wedding when people ask "so what is it you do for a living?".

One thing that was extremely smart for pods to do back when all the laws of modern mededine were being hammered out was retain surgical rights, as I don't think NPs are getting surgical rights anytime soon. If NPs end up getting surgical rights, then healthcare itself is doomed and people should just stay away. But I don't see NPs getting surgical rights in my working time, maybe at the tail end when retirement is an option.


I was reading several threads about NP's on here, and came away a little concerned. A couple of the threads I read were incredibly long and seemed to be mainly MD's and DO's, and they didn't seem too happy with NP's. Many were even suggesting flat out refusing to hire them, and others felt that rather than letting "midlevels encroach" on their "turf," they should just build more Med schools (and expand seats at existing ones), and incentivize Doctors towards Primary Care (especially in rural areas) to meet any "shortage" of providers with more Doctors, instead of Midlevels.

Since you have way more knowledge and experience on this matter; is NP still something worth going into with a good outlook? Or could NP's collapse in the future as some implied due to a combination of backlash from Doctors who want to protect their "turf," and also a slew of malpractice cases against NP's who go "independent?"

I'm sorry if my questions seem silly, but since I know very little about alternative routes like NP or Pod, I'm trying to quickly learn as much as I can before making such an important decision as to what to pursue now.
 
I was reading several threads about NP's on here, and came away a little concerned. A couple of the threads I read were incredibly long and seemed to be mainly MD's and DO's, and they didn't seem too happy with NP's. Many were even suggesting flat out refusing to hire them, and others felt that rather than letting "midlevels encroach" on their "turf," they should just build more Med schools (and expand seats at existing ones), and incentivize Doctors towards Primary Care (especially in rural areas) to meet any "shortage" of providers with more Doctors, instead of Midlevels.

Since you have way more knowledge and experience on this matter; is NP still something worth going into with a good outlook? Or could NP's collapse in the future as some implied due to a combination of backlash from Doctors who want to protect their "turf," and also a slew of malpractice cases against NP's who go "independent?"

I'm sorry if my questions seem silly, but since I know very little about alternative routes like NP or Pod, I'm trying to quickly learn as much as I can before making such an important decision as to what to pursue now.

This is an interesting question. Up front, no the NP pathway won't collapse because 1. doctors don't do a good job protecting their turf, and 2. We actually do need mid-levels. When they are working in their role as a mid-level provider under the supervision of a physician they are very valuable and help everything go smoother. The truth is that most NPs don't actually want full practice rights, they just want to be a mid-level. However, if it comes down to NP or pod then I'm with gypsy and would do pod 10/10 times. A few reasons for this, pod has a much higher salary ceiling (outside of CRNAs NPs don't really make all that much), you can do surgery, and to honestly be a good NP I am of the opinion that you need to work for a few years as a nurse first (which is originally how the NP path was designed). If I were in your shoes I would choose Pod, but that is just me. At this point we need to see some numbers and a GPA breakdown to further advise
 
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Lol at pod over NP. Don't do it. I know a podiatrist that stopped practicing and does real estate now because he makes way more money that way. Also he says most of his job was basically cleaning feet.
 
Lol at pod over NP. Don't do it. I know a podiatrist that stopped practicing and does real estate now because he makes way more money that way. Also he says most of his job was basically cleaning feet.

Lol at your n=1 anecdote.
 
Eh the podiatry cut offs I've seen are usually around 2.6ish depending on the school (someone is free to correct me as I'm not 100% certain). NP programs require you to have a nursing degree first and honestly getting into a somewhat decent nursing program isn't that difficult. During the nursing program just make sure you get good grades during that as they won't care about previous undergrad grades as long as you do decent in nursing school. There are also some crappy NP programs that will take about anyone but you don't want one of those.
It took my wife 3 tries to get into nursing school with a high GPA and lots of healthcare experience. Now that she's in, it's nearly impossible to get straight A's (An A is 95% or higher and tests are the only grades) one 80% on a test and your A is gone. She studies 5+ hours a day and does 12 hr clinical shifts twice a week. Most the NP programs she looks at require 3.0 cumulative GPA and 3.2 nursing GPA (which is not as easy as it sounds when you consider the fact that only one or two in each of her classes of 30 will get an A). Most also require a few upper division courses and a competitive GRE score.

On the flip side you can go to a non public nursing school e.g. Stevens Henager and basically buy a degree, then go to an online NP program and hooray! Your an NP.

I don't know how podiatry works, but it's all on a spectrum. NP can be as competitive as med school (2,000+ applicants for 15 spots), or its as easy as writing a check.



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It took my wife 3 tries to get into nursing school with a high GPA and lots of healthcare experience. Now that she's in, it's nearly impossible to get straight A's (An A is 95% or higher and tests are the only grades) one 80% on a test and your A is gone. She studies 5+ hours a day and does 12 hr clinical shifts twice a week. Most the NP programs she looks at require 3.0 cumulative GPA and 3.2 nursing GPA (which is not as easy as it sounds when you consider the fact that only one or two in each of her classes of 30 will get an A). Most also require a few upper division courses and a competitive GRE score.

On the flip side you can go to a non public nursing school e.g. Stevens Henager and basically buy a degree, then go to an online NP program and hooray! Your an NP.

I don't know how podiatry works, but it's all on a spectrum. NP can be as competitive as med school (2,000+ applicants for 15 spots), or its as easy as writing a check.



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Also NP salary in my area is basically $50-$100 an hour depending on experience. The NPs where my wife works make about $120,000 as new grads (0-3 years experience). They don't step on doctors toes, in fact they do a job that doctors would never do. So yes there is a need for NPs and by the middle of their careers they can expect to make $120,000-$160,000 easily (in my area at least). It's a great profession as is podiatry. Believe it or not, most doctors don't spend their days worrying about NPs and most NPs don't spend their days thinking they are doctors.

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It took my wife 3 tries to get into nursing school with a high GPA and lots of healthcare experience. Now that she's in, it's nearly impossible to get straight A's (An A is 95% or higher and tests are the only grades) one 80% on a test and your A is gone. She studies 5+ hours a day and does 12 hr clinical shifts twice a week. Most the NP programs she looks at require 3.0 cumulative GPA and 3.2 nursing GPA (which is not as easy as it sounds when you consider the fact that only one or two in each of her classes of 30 will get an A). Most also require a few upper division courses and a competitive GRE score.

My wife is a nurse and went to a very well respected university program, I understand how it is. A 3.2 in nursing school is nothing. The very huge issue with NP programs is that the decent ones (like the ones you mention) and the super crappy ones all produce grads that do the same thing and they get lumped together. There is a huge variability and very minimal oversight.

NP can be as competitive as med school (2,000+ applicants for 15 spots)

No NP program in the country is as competitive as medical school, you can't look at it at an applicants per seat ratio because that is very misleading. NP admissions don't touch medical school admissions.
 
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My wife is a nurse and went to a very well respected university program, I understand how it is. A 3.2 in nursing school is nothing. The very huge issue with NP programs is that the decent ones (like the ones you mention) and the super crappy ones all produce grads that do the same thing and they get lumped together. There is a huge variability and very minimal oversight.



No NP program in the country is as competitive as medical school, you can't look at it at an applicants per seat ratio because that is very misleading. NP admissions don't touch medical school admissions.
When average graduating GPA is 3.0 in the nursing class 3.2 is not "nothing" it's above average. And that is the minimum requirement, realistically a 3.5+ is needed for certain NP schools that means you need to be top 25% in your nursing class. Many premed students have 3.2 gpas or lower. Anyways we are making the same point, there is huge variability in NP.

My point isn't comparing NP to med school (obviously med school is more difficult). Just illustrating the fact the some NP schools are very selective and competitive and some are not at all.

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I have never met an unemployed podiatrist who has completed their 3 year surgical foot and ankle residency. I have met people who didn't get a residency (at first) but never an unemployed liscensed doc pod.

Pods who graduated 20 years ago only had to do a 1 or 2 year residency.

Real estate can make more money than A lot of non surgical specialties. Would you recommend everyone jump ship in that scenario?

Podiatry is an excellent field if you can deal with feet.

The equivalent would be like saying all dentists do is clean teeth.


Lol at pod over NP. Don't do it. I know a podiatrist that stopped practicing and does real estate now because he makes way more money that way. Also he says most of his job was basically cleaning feet.
 
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Luckily most nps don't seem to be pushing for doc status. Just the insecure ones that have gargantuan hardons for FLAWNCE nightingale and think they own the world. We need them and they need us but we hold the 8 ball (for now) as we should since we are the epitome of the healthcare team. Notice I said team not dictatorship so no bashing on the required hierarchy of medicine.


For the person who said real estate makes more yeah it does if you are top 1%. Medicine makes good money but not the pathway to riches. It's just a way for us science geeks to help people and not suck on test tubes and PCRs all day working for pennies in some university lab.


And no NP school is not competitive rofl rofl rofl. They take anybody with a pulse and sometimes those with third degree heart blocks as long as they can get loan bux

I'd go pod too as greyanatomy said. Less ppl want to enter that field and you actually have to at least be able to form full sentences with words and click boxes on the mcat to be accepted.
 
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I mean, what else are people gonna do with a biology degree?

Podiatry schools are not selective. I think most people can agree to that. The curriculum is like 90% the same however to MD/DO schools, especially the first 2 years. So if you can't cut medical school, chances are you won't be able to do pod school either.

One nice thing about pod school is boards are pass fail, they already know what specialty they are matching into. Also, no shelf exams, which helps cuz u can study for other things

Also, real estate now that I think about it really doesn't pay well unless you are years into it with nice investments, while a pod degree is almost a gaurenteed income of 120-200k/year.

I love nurse practitioners, and they are awesome people, but give me full autonomy and surgical rights to stinky feet as a 55 year old before I have to answer to a hot shot 30 year old doctor that just finished residency as a 55 year old nurse practitioner.


Luckily most nps don't seem to be pushing for doc status. Just the insecure ones that have gargantuan hardons for FLAWNCE nightingale and think they own the world. We need them and they need us but we hold the 8 ball (for now) as we should since we are the epitome of the healthcare team. Notice I said team not dictatorship so no bashing on the required hierarchy of medicine.


For the person who said real estate makes more yeah it does if you are top 1%. Medicine makes good money but not the pathway to riches. It's just a way for us science geeks to help people and not suck on test tubes and PCRs all day working for pennies in some university lab.


And no NP school is not competitive rofl rofl rofl. They take anybody with a pulse and sometimes those with third degree heart blocks as long as they can get loan bux

I'd go pod too as greyanatomy said. Less ppl want to enter that field and you actually have to at least be able to form full sentences with words and click boxes on the mcat to be accepted.
 
Lol at pod over NP. Don't do it. I know a podiatrist that stopped practicing and does real estate now because he makes way more money that way. Also he says most of his job was basically cleaning feet.
I bet I could make more money with the right real estate investment than a neurosurgeon or ortho. You make no valid point at all.
 
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I'm currently selling my plot of land on mars if anybody interested. Will sell for 50% off to members of AANC or AANP
 
No NP program in the country is as competitive as medical school, you can't look at it at an applicants per seat ratio because that is very misleading. NP admissions don't touch medical school admissions.
Yup. By that standard, there are DO schools more competitive than Harvard MD.
 
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Pretty sure we had 6k ish applicants my year. Prob 5k had <20 mcat and <3.0 gpa though so yeah
 
That seems really high, do you live on the west or east coast? In my area, NP usually cap out around 100k gross.

Also NP salary in my area is basically $50-$100 an hour depending on experience. The NPs where my wife works make about $120,000 as new grads (0-3 years experience). They don't step on doctors toes, in fact they do a job that doctors would never do. So yes there is a need for NPs and by the middle of their careers they can expect to make $120,000-$160,000 easily (in my area at least). It's a great profession as is podiatry. Believe it or not, most doctors don't spend their days worrying about NPs and most NPs don't spend their days thinking they are doctors.

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That seems really high, do you live on the west or east coast? In my area, NP usually cap out around 100k gross.

Yeah I'm not sure where he is getting those numbers. That's really high for starting NPs. And no they don't do jobs "doctors would never do".
 
Yeah I'm not sure where he is getting those numbers. That's really high for starting NPs. And no they don't do jobs "doctors would never do".
Western US. and yes they do jobs doctors would never do. Three NPs, two pharmacists, and a couple RNs run the clinic. They check PT/INRs all day and manage Coumadin. A job no doctor would do. Patients mostly come to the clinic for the rest of their lives after receiving open heart surgery. Top NP manages clinic and grosses $150K. Other NPs both with less than 3 years experience getting $120K.


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That seems way too high unless ur living in California or anouther west coast state with a high cost of living.

PAs and NPs usually start out around the 60k mark here and top out around 100k. PAs in my experience (6 years in healthcare), make more on average, around 80k topping out at 110k. PAs, in my experience, are also more aggressive in negotiations.

And I know doctors that manage Coumadin. Especially cardio docs.


One second Google search for 1-3 yrs experience NP job in my city.

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That seems way too high unless ur living in California or anouther west coast state with a high cost of living.

PAs and NPs usually start out around the 60k mark here and top out around 100k. PAs in my experience (6 years in healthcare), make more on average, around 80k topping out at 110k. PAs, in my experience, are also more aggressive in negotiations.

And I know doctors that manage Coumadin. Especially cardio docs.
Okay. I'll let the NPs here know they make too much. My wife is an RN and her gross is just barely under 60K. No way she would get NP just to make same wage.

No "cardio doc" pokes 50+ people a day, reads their PT/INR and then adjusts their Coumadin. That's why we have NPs, RNs, and phlebotomists. Every patient literally comes from a cardio doc who can't/doesn't want to deal with 1000s of people who need their Coumadin monitored weekly.

Believe it or not, but NPs/PAs fill a needed role in healthcare and are often handsomely compensated for that role.



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RNs in my area make a little under 50k to start, so 60k gross doesn't sound out of the range. You must either live is a rural area where they are begging for providers or an area with a high cost of living for NPs to be paid so handsomely.

Physical therapists only gross like 70-80k here, and they have a 3 year degree. Heck, most Family Med docs make between 150k-180k in my area (though that's working 9-5, they could make much more if they husseled, 200k+ easy)

Okay. I'll let the NPs here know they make too much. My wife is an RN and her gross is just barely under 60K. No way she would get NP just to make same wage.

No "cardio doc" pokes 50+ people a day, reads their PT/INR and then adjusts their Coumadin. That's why we have NPs, RNs, and phlebotomists. Every patient literally comes from a cardio doc who can't/doesn't want to deal with 1000s of people who need their Coumadin monitored weekly.

Believe it or not, but NPs/PAs fill a needed role in healthcare and are often handsomely compensated for that role.



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