End of Grade Replacement?

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I don't have that data. I don't even think my Admissions dean does.

But let's pretend the number is 50%. At my school we have a pool of 6000 people applying. If we eliminate all who used grade replacement, we now have 3000 applicants. Of these, some are applying without a clue and have business doing so. This is another 50%. Now we're down to 1500 candidates.

Based upon historic numbers, there's no way we'll get 100 people to commit to our program of the 250 we usually accept.

Thus, we will have to down deeper into the applicant pool, and say, our median GPA goes from 3.3 to 3.1. Our LizzyM score also takes a hit.

The applicant pool might be modified so that more people who reinvent themselves are appealing to MD schools and thus that leaves more people who would have gotten into MD schools with lower stats, to go for DO. For example, the kid with a 3.9 GPA from an SMP might be more attractive to their state MD school, Drexel or U Miami, than the candidate with the 3.5 GPA, who achieved this straight through UG school. So theoretically, some MD schools might even see a drop in their LizzyM scores! In turn, the DO schools see their scores go up.

With reinvention, I could see where DO schools can settle for lower MCAT scores, so people only have to do 1/2 of the reinvention mix.

I'll bet @efle or @Lawper can come up with some thought experiments on this.

What proportion of applicants usually used the grade replacement policy from what you understand? Do you think that this is going to dramatically cut down on the applicant pool?


This could be the case!

With the increase of average GPA for D.O. schools over the years, could they be doing this because they feel they are getting more competitive applicants now? Like someone said earlier, the applicant who never has never used grade replacement but has a 3.4-3.6 GPA would suddenly gain a large advantage.

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It still makes absolute sense, especially when a 3.3 will suffice for DO schools and a 3.6-3.7 is scrapping the bottom of the barrel for MD. It is not easy elevating your GPA when it is comprised of hundreds of units...

Ummm what?? Not even close...

Average matriculant has a 3.7 cum and a 3.64 science...
YyYBbhG.png
 
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The lack of denial from the official sources makes it pretty obvious it's true, no?

Someone above called this despicable, it's a shame SDN filters the words you need to really describe this. What the hell are they thinking? Why would they do this so last minute? Why let hundreds or thousands of people go uninformed about the actual value of their retakes/postbacc work? There are going to be more than a handful of people permanently locked out by this too, that are having the only reasonable means of overcoming a bunch of early failing grades taken away. And instead of giving a year of warning so they could make an attempt now with halfway repaired grades, it will be a suddenly slammed door. No career as a physician for you.

It looks to me like DO schools no longer want to be the accessible option to premeds who were late to figure out their interest in medicine, and would instead like to attach themselves to the lower end of the MD school range, accepting some lower numbers for a few years if it means they can say, "look we're just like them now!" I bet the residency merger is the other half of the equation. Maybe our generation is going to see the most established DO schools becoming pretty much interchangeable with the more accessible (non-mission) MD schools.
 
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F&@$!!!!!!

I can't believe this shiz right now!!!! I have spent the last three years doing grade replacement!!! I failed Bio 1610 and gen Chem 1210 twice! Went through a damn divorce and got wrecked! Have gotten +3.7 every semester for the last 6 semesters! I can't believe this **** right now! 4 months before the cycle! F&@$!!!!
 
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Ummm what?? Not even close...

Average matriculant has a 3.7 cum and a 3.64 science...
YyYBbhG.png

Not even close? You apply as a competitive applicant or else you essentially line said medical school's pockets with a donation. Ask the hundreds of applicants on this site how far from a sure thing your chances of garnering an interview, let alone an acceptance is from an MD school with a 3.6 GPA. Based on how fierce competition has become these days, I would advise applying to in-state schools and those whose competitive class stats you fall above (as high as humanely possible). Finish one MD application cycle son, and then speak to the "empirical" evidence you've gathered.
 
Not even close? You apply as a competitive applicant or else you essentially line said medical school's pockets with a donation. Ask the hundreds of applicants on this site how far from a sure thing your chances of garnering an interview, let alone an acceptance is from an MD school with a 3.6 GPA. Based on how fierce competition has become these days, I would advise applying to in-state schools and those whose competitive class stats you fall above (as high as humanely possible). Finish an MD application cycle son, and then speak to the empirical evidence you've gathered.
I have MD admits, can I say it is ridiculous to call a 3.6-7 scraping the bottom? The data doesn't lie, it's not near the bottom, it's literally the middle of the pack of successful people !
 
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I have MD admits, can I say it is ridiculous to call a 3.6-7 scraping the bottom? The data doesn't lie, it's not near the bottom, it's literally the middle of the pack of successful people !
The problem lies with the fact that these numbers are too absolute and I had to start somewhere. A 3.3-3.4 would have been more in line with the phrase "bottom of the barrel," but would I advise a mediocre applicant (who does not possess added in-state prowess) to apply to a private/out of state school? Absolutely not. I did not mean to say bottom of the barrel of the spectrum (which I hope many of you would have inferred), but rather in terms of sheer competitiveness.
 
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Not even close? You apply as a competitive applicant or else you essentially line said medical school's pockets with a donation. Ask the hundreds of applicants on this site how far from a sure thing your chances of garnering an interview, let alone an acceptance is from an MD school with a 3.6 GPA. Based on how fierce competition has become these days, I would advise applying to in-state schools and those whose competitive class stats you fall above (as high as humanely possible). Finish one MD application cycle son, and then speak to the "empirical" evidence you've gathered.

LOL. I see you don't know how to interpret data.
 
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This is crazy and I'm sure is going to kill a lot of chances. What is a safe GPA for DO on the low side?
 
LOL. I see you don't know how to interpret data.
And best of luck with your endeavors after you unequivocally prove my point and do not matriculate at an MD school come May-June.
 
anything above a 3.4 GPA is currently competitive at a DO school. After this grade replacement policy ends it's impossible to say for sure what will happen and any information given about what is going to happen will be speculation.
 
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I'm holding onto hope that the average DO matriculant has an unrealistically elevated GPA due to grade replacement. With this going away, my bet is applicant gpa's at DO schools will drop. At that point, my HOPE is the established GPA screens will reflect that drop, and then the burden will lie with the schools to do a more thorough holistic review of the applicants, so GPA Won't eliminate a quality applicant.

In an ideal world this would happen. What will actually happen is your applicants who are strong enough to apply to the MD schools will secure more DO seats as backup, meanwhile people like me who would have no shot at MD schools will get screened out or put on pre-interview waitlists/rejecitons.
 
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I don't think this will change things much. The applicant pools will still be the same, the numbers will just be less massaged (which really was just about making things closer to MD numbers, not some holistic review).

Retaking courses is still valuable for very low grades, even up to Cs as an average with an A is still an improvement, just less dramatic than the old way.

There stands a lot of money to be made with SMPs if they are legit. Problem is that we'll probably see a proliferation of sketchy post baccs and SMPs.
 
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Wow. I feel bad for those that spent years and money trying to achieve their dream that may not have a shot now.
 
I don't think this will change things much. The applicant pools will still be the same, the numbers will just be less massaged (which really was just about making things closer to MD numbers, not some holistic review).

Retaking courses is still valuable for very low grades, even up to Cs as an average with an A is still an improvement, just less dramatic than the old way.

There stands a lot of money to be made with SMPs if they are legit. Problem is that we'll probably see a proliferation of sketchy post baccs and SMPs.

^This. Unfortunately, it does screen out and/or doubles the length of time for those incredible and highly improbable 2.0 GPA comeback stories you hear every now and then.
 
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I think doubling the time and money required to do +0.xx repair does change the applicant pools now. Used to be, if you'd failed a handful of classes early on and then done better, you could replace and go into the cycle on even footing with the people who had just been generally B+ students throughout. Now the people who just bring a 3.4 out of college are in a far, far better spot than the person with a 2.0 for the first few semesters and a 3.4 from then on.
 
I'm sure I'll get slammed for this, but won't this policy put into place a sort of incentive program? You either do well the first time you take a course or you settle for an averaged grade the second time taking that course? I find it pretty tough to think that a person who gets a D in gen bio who then retakes it and gets an A should have their transcript from aacomas show that they earned an A. There are definitely circumstances where someone has something bad happen, but for those that simply didn't put the necessary time in I don't feel they should be rewarded for retaking the course. Just my opinion!
 
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Gonna switch my major to business just in case
 
I think doubling the time and money required to do +0.xx repair does change the applicant pools now. Used to be, if you'd failed a handful of classes early on and then done better, you could replace and go into the cycle on even footing with the people who had just been generally B+ students throughout. Now the people who just bring a 3.4 out of college are in a far, far better spot than the person with a 2.0 for the first few semesters and a 3.4 from then on.
What I'm saying is that I don't think a 3.4 will be "required" anymore and the time needed to boost a GPA to an acceptable level won't be doubled.
 
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I am very sorry and sympathize greatly with those of you who have invested time and money based on the expectation that you could avail yourselves to grade replacement.

But don't quit. Upward trends and SMPs can still potentially get you to medical school. And do not forget that some states have "fresh start" programs, like TX. I think a medical school in Louisiana has something similar, where they only consider your last x credits. Good luck!
 
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I think SDN has a heavy bias on grade replacement since those particular people come here for more information regarding it. There's many DOs that I've talked to that did not even know it existed and I can't think of anyone offhand who did utilize it. I think if you're banking on grade replacement, you're in a small minority of applicants unfortunately.
 
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Wow, my heart goes out to those of you who will be affected by this. Keep your heads up. If you want it bad enough, it will come through in your personal statement and adcoms will take notice. I can say with certainty that my PS is what got me a lot of my interviews


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
I'm sure I'll get slammed for this, but won't this policy put into place a sort of incentive program? You either do well the first time you take a course or you settle for an averaged grade the second time taking that course? I find it pretty tough to think that a person who gets a D in gen bio who then retakes it and gets an A should have their transcript from aacomas show that they earned an A. There are definitely circumstances where someone has something bad happen, but for those that simply didn't put the necessary time in I don't feel they should be rewarded for retaking the course. Just my opinion!
I think it is more about realizing late that you want to go into medicine. Someone capable of an A in gen bio who gets a D isn't trying. This change effectively doubles the work to fix up your odds if you realize late that you need to start trying.


What I'm saying is that I don't think a 3.4 will be "required" anymore and the time needed to boost a GPA to an acceptable level won't be doubled.
Maybe I'm too cynical but I don't really expect to see a big drop in numbers. I think the shift would initially be relaxed expectations about ECs and interview performance rather than relaxed standards for numbers, and with the residency merger there might not be much relaxation anywhere if a flood of borderline MD candidates starts tossing apps at DO too.


I think SDN has a heavy bias on grade replacement since those particular people come here for more information regarding it. There's many DOs that I've talked to that did not even know it existed and I can't think of anyone offhand who did utilize it. I think if you're banking on grade replacement, you're in a small minority of applicants unfortunately.
I wonder what motivates this change then? Why suddenly harm this small group without warning when it isn't going to matter much for who you're filling your schools with?
 
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I'm sure I'll get slammed for this, but won't this policy put into place a sort of incentive program? You either do well the first time you take a course or you settle for an averaged grade the second time taking that course? I find it pretty tough to think that a person who gets a D in gen bio who then retakes it and gets an A should have their transcript from aacomas show that they earned an A. There are definitely circumstances where someone has something bad happen, but for those that simply didn't put the necessary time in I don't feel they should be rewarded for retaking the course. Just my opinion!

As someone who was an immature college student early on and had to take an extra year retaking classes which cost me time and money and limited my options to only DO, I definitely don't think I was rewarded in any way.
 
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This is an unexpected bump in the road. The end of grade replacement is just a bump so I will push forward. This journey forward will just make me stronger and prepared for the day that I get into medical school. I'm going to start a SMP this fall and let my grades do the talking.

@RamsFan&FutureDO
I respect your opinion...
 
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Don't worry DO schools do a holisitic review of every applicant after you make their GPA and MCAT cutoffs. ;)

Holistic...that word is thrown around too much on these forums lol.
 
This is an unexpected bump in the road. The end of grade replacement is just a bump so I will push forward. This journey forward will just make me stronger and prepared for the day that I get into medical school. I'm going to start a SMP this fall and let my grades do the talking.

@RamsFan&FutureDO
I respect your opinion...

That's exactly how it should be I commend you for putting the work in and chasing your dream! Pulling for you
 
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That's exactly how it should be I commend you for putting the work in and chasing your dream! Pulling for you

as if using grade replacement is a way to avoid "putting the work in"...
 
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I think it is more about realizing late that you want to go into medicine. Someone capable of an A in gen bio who gets a D isn't trying. This change effectively doubles the work to fix up your odds if you realize late that you need to start trying.



Maybe I'm too cynical but I don't really expect to see a big drop in numbers. I think the shift would initially be relaxed expectations about ECs and interview performance rather than relaxed standards for numbers, and with the residency merger there might not be much relaxation anywhere if a flood of borderline MD candidates starts tossing apps at DO too.



I wonder what motivates this change then? Why suddenly harm this small group without warning when it isn't going to matter much for who you're filling your schools with?

I completely understand someone not trying and then realizing late. However, they still have seen the material and are at least somewhat familiar with it and therefore have an advantage over the student who takes it the first time. Maybe if I was a student who benefitted from grade replacement I'd feel differently, but I don't feel the end of grade replacement is necessarily a bad thing. Again just my two cents!
 
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as if using grade replacement is a way to avoid "putting the work in"...

You're missing the point I'm trying to make all together. If you were immature or just didn't put the necessary time in to get a good grade on the first time taking a course why should you be rewarded with an A? You may have earned it the second try, but how is that fair to those students who put in the requisite time to get that grade the first time they took it? I fully believe that someone who was immature and didn't focus can reinvent themselves by excelling in additional course work, but don't believe that a D grade to A grade replacement or whatever grade you replace is how it should be done.
 
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You're missing the point I'm trying to make all together. If you were immature or just didn't put the necessary time in to get a good grade on the first time taking a course why should you be rewarded with an A? You may have earned it the second try, but how is that fair to those students who put in the requisite time to get that grade the first time they took it? I fully believe that someone who was immature and didn't focus can reinvent themselves by excelling in additional course work, but don't believe that a D grade to A grade replacement or whatever grade you replace is how it should be done.

I get what you're saying. I think that it shows that an individual has improved as a whole (whatever their history may be). It's fair because everyone knows you can do that... if they started without grade replacement and suddenly switched to allow grade replacement, then we could talk about it being unfair.
 
I'll tell you what. Ross University school of medicine sure seems like a good option right now
 
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'Nope' weirdly still makes me feel better, but the sting from this slap in the face is still there.

Grade replacement was going to be my backup plan if SMPs didn't work out (didn't get accepted to one or never was able to get accepted after completing one). My future is in significant jeopardy now and its frightening.

Exactly how I feel. Makes me wonder if I should go through with an SMP. I was planning on doing grade replacement because it wouldn't be 'now or never'. I understand that is a privilege, and it doesn't surprise me that this is happening. The only surprising thing to me is that it is so sudden and without notice.
 
Nope. SMP or DIY post-bac. Show us the you of now is not the you of then.

SMP? One year of science work > three years of +3.7 GPA.... Ya I wouldn't care as much if they gave me a two years heads up. This is unethical in my opinion! A major policy change should have warning.
 
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Retaking classes is not going to prepare a person for the furnace that is medical school (no one is ever actually prepared but retakes by themselves would not be enough). Don't get me wrong, grade replacement was the fastest, cheapest, and easiest/safest route to get into medical (and I hopped on it). But would a safe more affordable route mentally/physically prepare you for the rigor that is to come/ are you not kind of deceiving yourself? I didn't think it would...for me (these are questions I would ask myself).
 
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Even with this policy in place, I think a 3.7+ GPA for 30 credits of relevant coursework and a 508+ MCAT will salvage any bad start.
 
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It gets even better! According to this aacom.org page, back in 2011 the Council of Osteopathic Medical Admissions Officers (COMAO) was already reviewing "a preliminary report on a review of the impact of the AACOMAS grade replacement policy on applications". So this may have been coming for years and we just didn't know it.

Maybe others will have more luck digging up info about this review of the policy, I haven't been able to find much of anything
 
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SMP? One year of science work > three years of +3.7 GPA.... Ya I wouldn't care as much if they gave me a two years heads up. This is unethical in my opinion! A major policy change should have warning.
Exactly. I feel I have shown my first semester was a complete fluke, and it devastated me as I lost two of my closest friends and also potentially threw away my dream of medical school all in just 4 months. I am not someone who consistently does subpar, never have been. I also had never experienced such a sad set of circumstances, and so my failure reflects that. It was the natural consequence, and I accept that. I was 7 hours away from home with no money or car to get home, didn't get to go to funerals, I didn't get to commiserate with family and friends. I just felt loss and I felt it alone, and I failed because I couldn't even bring myself to study for the last exams in my classes.

I am not that person now, and I looked forward to the grade replacement to show that I am a good student with potential. I was worried my chances at med school would be thrown away but when I learned that DO schools did grade replacement I felt rejuvenated, transferred to my home university and got As in the classes I got Fs in, and As in all my science classes so far. To think I'm bottom of the barrel for MD schools and now just average for DO is scary and my future feels once again uncertain.
 
Nope. SMP or DIY post-bac. Show us the you of now is not the you of then.

Do you think there is a cutoff that would show as much? For instance, my GPA after 3 years of a 3.7 of mainly upper level science for a biochem major with a few retakes would have been 3.45ish heading into this cycle, but now it'll be around 3.2 (2.0 my freshman year..with a D in calc 1...yikes haha my 18 year old self was dumb)
 
Probably would have made more sense to start this the same year as the merger in 2020.
TBH I wouldn't doubt this is a step towards a LCME and COCA merger. They aren't going to lower the GPA standards because of this, they will just matriculate more students who are between MD/DO.

The reason why a masters or post-bacc program are probably looked at more favorably is because they are designed to mirror the first year of medical school, and often are run in conjunction with the first year medical school classes. Thus if one can excel in that kind of program they obviously will do well in medical school. Doing or repeating old courses doesn't show that a student can excel in medical school curriculum the same way that one of these programs can. That is the difference.
 
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Even with this policy in place, I think a 3.7+ GPA for 30 credits of relevant coursework and a 508+ MCAT will salvage any bad start.

I think so too. I just feel sorry for applicants who still have <3.0 GPAs who were really banking on grade replacement to help them get past the auto-screens.
 
TBH I wouldn't doubt this is a step towards a LCME and COCA merger. They aren't going to lower the GPA standards because of this, they will just matriculate more students who are between MD/DO.

The reason why a masters or post-bacc program are probably looked at more favorably is because they are designed to mirror the first year of medical school, and often are run in conjunction with the first year medical school classes. Thus if one can excel in that kind of program they obviously will do well in medical school. Doing or repeating old courses doesn't show that a student can excel in medical school curriculum the same way that one of these programs can. That is the difference.

Couldn't agree more!
 
It gets even better! According to this aacom.org page, back in 2011 the Council of Osteopathic Medical Admissions Officers (COMAO) was already reviewing "a preliminary report on a review of the impact of the AACOMAS grade replacement policy on applications". So this may have been coming for years and we just didn't know it.

Maybe others will have more luck digging up info about this review of the policy, I haven't been able to find much of anything

I think the right thing would be to allow grade replacement for 2-3 more years before the new policy goes into effect.

It's just not right to announce this so last minute considering many applicants have spent the last 1-3 years and a whole lotta money retaking classes.
 
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I think so too. I just feel sorry for applicants who still have <3.0 GPAs who were really banking on grade replacement to help them get past the auto-screens.
Even a few MD schools admit people with <3.0 GPAs, but who managed to demonstrate a significant upward trend. If anything, this policy will raise the MCAT bar.
 
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I think the right thing would be to allow grade replacement for 2-3 more years before the new policy goes into effect.

It's just not right to announce this so last minute considering many applicants have spent the last 1-3 years and a whole lotta money retaking classes.
Yeah like how the new MCAT transition was handled - almost every school continued accepting the old MCAT for 2015 and 2016. Suddenly collectively announcing that AMCAS would only display new MCAT scores at the start of the 2015 cycle would have started riots.
 
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I have many theories here, and think the lack of warning is deplorable, but it call comes back to money one can rest assured. This was all foretold in Dr Norman Gevitz prophecy. LCME and COCA merger next? Dual degree MD/DO programs? Veterinary OMM programs? Who knows what's next.
 
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