COVID vaccine general thread

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If we are treating this like a regular clinical trial, it shouldve taken 5-10 years before it hit the market depending on at what phase we decide to release it to the public. When I was in clinical research, most of drugs were stuck in phase 1-3 for years for various reasons.

Obviously with this covid craze going on, I understand why it wouldve taken them less than a year to develop this but still, we dont know much about it to confidently tell patients... anything at this point.

If youre getting it, more power to you. I applaud your courage. I cant seem to get over the fact that this government and people involved in this vaccine have different priorities though.
We actually have plenty to confidently tell patients.

Short term side effects are rare and fairly minor assuming no history of allergic reactions to anything.

The vaccines appear to be pretty effective. I'm not sure then 95% number is going to end up being the final efficacy but I bet it's close.

The majority of vaccines don't have long term side effects and we have no reason to suspect otherwise in this case.

We can also very confidently refute some of the nonsense worries circulating about on social media.

That all said, having concerns about a new, novel vaccine is not unreasonable. In any other year I'd have my own concerns as well.

But we have a virus that's killed almost as many people as we lost in the whole of WW2, has shuttered large portions of the economy, and has overwhelmed our hospitals to an unprecedented degree. The sooner we're all vaccinated the sooner much of that gets better.

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We actually have plenty to confidently tell patients.

Short term side effects are rare and fairly minor assuming no history of allergic reactions to anything.

The vaccines appear to be pretty effective. I'm not sure then 95% number is going to end up being the final efficacy but I bet it's close.

The majority of vaccines don't have long term side effects and we have no reason to suspect otherwise in this case.

We can also very confidently refute some of the nonsense worries circulating about on social media.

That all said, having concerns about a new, novel vaccine is not unreasonable. In any other year I'd have my own concerns as well.

But we have a virus that's killed almost as many people as we lost in the whole of WW2, has shuttered large portions of the economy, and has overwhelmed our hospitals to an unprecedented degree. The sooner we're all vaccinated the sooner much of that gets better.
With so much censorship happening everywhere, even if there is a problem with the vaccine im pretty sure we wont hear about it. Lol. At least with this vaccine, we can now go back to worrying about other thousand ways we could die. 😉
 
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With so much censorship happening everywhere, even if there is a problem with the vaccine im pretty sure we wont hear about it. Lol. At least with this vaccine, we can now go back to worrying about other thousand ways we could die. 😉
Censorship? Seriously?

It has literally never been easier to disseminate information.
 
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The new FB profile fad is "I got the covid-19 vaccine". I think before this, it was "I voted".
 
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Censorship? Seriously?

It has literally never been easier to disseminate information.

Its pretty obvious that there is censorship in social media and mass media. No one was reporting the hunter biden story nor the chinese spy fang fang. Clearly there is bias in how things are reported in the media to control vox populi. Yes, of course we now have so much free information on the internet available for us but if the general population doesnt bother to look, wouldnt they get most of their news from mass media and social media hence being convinced of what is shown which is probably based on their own agenda?
 
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The new FB profile fad is "I got the covid-19 vaccine". I think before this, it was "I voted".
The sticker I got with the vaccine was so funny. I immediately thought of the I Voted sticker. 😂
 
May be a dumb question, but why there is no vaccine for HIV yet?
 
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Censorship? Seriously?

It has literally never been easier to disseminate information.
It has been easier to disseminate information but also easier to censor it.

Have you not heard about how many people were complaining about Youtube community guidelines lol. Oh that's right, stuff like that gets censored. One of the threads here just got closed because I "broke" TOS guidelines.

You happen to be on the "right" side of history so your information is not censored. I present information that is contrary to popular opinion.

But I am a dissident and a threat to public safety so my ideas need to be censored. They are unscientific and deemed unworthy.
 
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May be a dumb question, but why there is no vaccine for HIV yet?
This is not a dump question. There is the usual gibberish about how readily the virus mutates so it's difficult to make a vaccine. It's been 40 years and billions upon billions of dollars in funding.

But somehow we can use parts of the hiv virus to make a coronavirus vaccine in record time. Wow how marvelous is that lol.

If you want to know more look up the Perth group.
 
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Its pretty obvious that there is censorship in social media and mass media. No one was reporting the hunter biden story nor the chinese spy fang fang. Clearly there is bias in how things are reported in the media to control vox populi. Yes, of course we now have so much free information on the internet available for us but if the general population doesnt bother to look, wouldnt they get most of their news from mass media and social media hence being convinced of what is shown which is probably based on their own agenda?
Most people don't even know election fraud occured. By the way I didn't vote for Trump nor am I a Republican. But you didn't hear that in the news did you? Because it's just a bunch of unwarranted conspiracy theories to undermine this country's democracy.

It's ironic because the same people that censor us today will be censored in the future and when that time comes they will cry. They will wonder what happened but it will be too late.

Here is that famous quote:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
 
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Its pretty obvious that there is censorship in social media and mass media. No one was reporting the hunter biden story nor the chinese spy fang fang. Clearly there is bias in how things are reported in the media to control vox populi. Yes, of course we now have so much free information on the internet available for us but if the general population doesnt bother to look, wouldnt they get most of their news from mass media and social media hence being convinced of what is shown which is probably based on their own agenda?
Nah, lots of people were reporting on those. Just not the main players. Newsmax and OAN mainly but Fox was for awhile. Washington Examiner seems to have lots of stories on those as well.

There are also conservative centric social media sites out there if you want them. Parler seems to be the popular one currently.
 
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Most people don't even know election fraud occured. By the way I didn't vote for Trump nor am I a Republican. But you didn't hear that in the news did you? Because it's just a bunch of unwarranted conspiracy theories to undermine this country's democracy.

It's ironic because the same people that censor us today will be censored in the future and when that time comes they will cry. They will wonder what happened but it will be too late.

Here is that famous quote:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

There was no election fraud you *****.
 
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Nah, lots of people were reporting on those. Just not the main players. Newsmax and OAN mainly but Fox was for awhile. Washington Examiner seems to have lots of stories on those as well.

There are also conservative centric social media sites out there if you want them. Parler seems to be the popular one currently.

These guys don't realize that television media, Twitter and Facebook are private organizations and have the right to choose which content they allow or not.

What is true is that there are certain things that the media chooses not to report or chooses how to spin the story. Prime recent example would be the massive protests/general strike in India. The media here did not put wall to wall coverage of the general strike on the news asides from a few small stories, IMO, because major corporations don't want Americans to see how 250 million people in another country all went on strike, blocked the roads, and marched on the capital and effectively shut the country down.
 
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Exceptionally agile virus with damned near constant mutations.

It's why the treatment is 3 antivirals spanning at least 2 different classes.

Is this why there is no herpes vaccine too?
 
There was no election fraud you *****.
Chill bro, it's not that big of a deal. It really doesn't matter who wins but there is no way in hell Sleepy Joe just happened to win in battleground states.
 
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Is this why there is no herpes vaccine too?
Not sure but I kinda doubt it as we do have a herpes vaccine. Chicken pox is herpes virus 3 after all.

Plus acyclovir still works well despite being monotherapy and very very old so likely very little mutation.
 
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These guys don't realize that television media, Twitter and Facebook are private organizations and have the right to choose which content they allow or not.

What is true is that there are certain things that the media chooses not to report or chooses how to spin the story. Prime recent example would be the massive protests/general strike in India. The media here did not put wall to wall coverage of the general strike on the news asides from a few small stories, IMO, because major corporations don't want Americans to see how 250 million people in another country all went on strike, blocked the roads, and marched on the capital and effectively shut the country down.
Maybe the media outlets didn't want Americans to see how 250 million Indians, almost the entire population of this country and most of them without masks and social distancing, can protest and not contract Covid.

Oh I forgot that thousands of Americans did protest in June and no one got Covid. The virus seems to discriminate only against small business, human activity after 10pm, and Californians.

Covid cases in India are dropping fast out of nowhere. The NYT even wrote an article trying to explain this phenomena and came to the conclusion that it could be due to a change in testing. Many Indians recently celebrated Diwali with no worries, it's like Covid never existed.
 
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There was no election fraud you *****.
Oh the insult begins lol. Werent there dead people voting? The dominion voting system was compromised? Fake ballets being counted? Granted, i do not care who the president is, i think theyre all the same but the fact that some people are so adamant and angry that there was no fraud even though there are so much evidence makes me want question even more lol
 
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Imagine comparing TOS violations to Nazi Germany.

This dystopia is more like Wall-E except humanity won't occupy other planets without a literal deus ex machina
 
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Maybe the media outlets didn't want Americans to see how 250 million Indians, almost the entire population of this country and most of them without masks and social distancing, can protest and not contract Covid.

Oh I forgot that thousands of Americans did protest in June and no one got Covid. The virus seems to discriminate only against small business, human activity after 10pm, and Californians.

Covid cases in India are dropping fast out of nowhere. The NYT even wrote an article trying to explain this phenomena and came to the conclusion that it could be due to a change in testing. Many Indians recently celebrated Diwali with no worries, it's like Covid never existed.
I mean the media is the media. Its purpose is to control the mass. We all know this. Its nothing new. So who cares. Im just concerned about the fact that so many people believe the media at face value without a question.

DoJ: We are investigating Hunter Biden on his relationship with china.
Media: Nope. Never happened.

People of major city: Our city is being burned down by rioters and looters.
Media: Nope. Peaceful protests.

Eric Swalwell: I slept with a chinese spy.
Media: Nope. She just wanted to learn english from you.

Rest of the world: China is destroying the world’s economy and they now have concentration camps for muslims.
Disney: Awesome. We will film a movie right next to it and show it to the world!

Californians: Lock downs are hurting more people.
Media: Nope. Just nope.

Lol
 
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These guys don't realize that television media, Twitter and Facebook are private organizations and have the right to choose which content they allow or not.

What is true is that there are certain things that the media chooses not to report or chooses how to spin the story. Prime recent example would be the massive protests/general strike in India. The media here did not put wall to wall coverage of the general strike on the news asides from a few small stories, IMO, because major corporations don't want Americans to see how 250 million people in another country all went on strike, blocked the roads, and marched on the capital and effectively shut the country down

Nothing was shut down in India except couple of states in North India. India is a vast and democratic country. People do protest for different reasons almost every year in different parts of country. No one bothers except BBC, Al-Jazeera or some paid NYT columnist with Anti-India propaganda.
 
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If we are treating this like a regular clinical trial, it shouldve taken 5-10 years before it hit the market depending on at what phase we decide to release it to the public. When I was in clinical research, most of drugs were stuck in phase 1-3 for years for various reasons.

Obviously with this covid craze going on, I understand why it wouldve taken them less than a year to develop this but still, we dont know much about it to confidently tell patients... anything at this point.

If youre getting it, more power to you. I applaud your courage. I cant seem to get over the fact that this government and people involved in this vaccine have different priorities though.
No, 1000 times no. The amount of time it takes to get trials done depends on the number of events. Shingrix too years becyase in comparison to Covid-19 Shingles does not exist. The prevalence of the infection sped of the trials. It was not rushed in any way shape or form.

As a healthcare professional who supposedly cares about his/her patients well being, you should be supporting the widespread adoption of this vaccine. If you have data against it, bring it. If not Sit down and shut up, I want to eat in restaurants...
 
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As soon as Lazy and Victor (Iam) start posting in these threads, they get locked or deleted. Shame on you moderators! You have resorted to this censorship for the last 10 months. /sarcasm off
 
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Nothing was shut down in India except couple of states in North India. India is a vast and democratic country. People do protest for different reasons almost every year in different parts of country. No one bothers except BBC, Al-Jazeera or some paid NYT columnist with Anti-India propaganda.

Vast country, yes. However the current party in control is semi-fascist.

One thing is this trend of "deIslamification of India". The Indian government is slowly trying to change the Arabic and Persian based names of cities to Hindi based names. It's like they are trying wipe away any memory of the Arab/Islamic conquests.
 
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No, 1000 times no. The amount of time it takes to get trials done depends on the number of events. Shingrix too years becyase in comparison to Covid-19 Shingles does not exist. The prevalence of the infection sped of the trials. It was not rushed in any way shape or form.

As a healthcare professional who supposedly cares about his/her patients well being, you should be supporting the widespread adoption of this vaccine. If you have data against it, bring it. If not Sit down and shut up, I want to eat in restaurants...
Are you kidding me? Of course the trials were rushed in the wrong way too. I am a healthcare professional too, and I tell them that the last times we did vaccine EUAs (Dengue and Anthrax), it blew up in the Fed's face for reasons you can read about. In the case of Dengue, it was kids and the FDA panel got overhauled after that.

You have to evaluate your lifestyle relative to risk, and make a decision. Time and personal circumstances matter. It may become a global recommendation in time, but not right now. The institutionalized (nursing home, uniformed in barracks or ships, prisoners) and the front line, it's a risky but necessary one where I actually think it's better to get it. The elderly with or without comorbidities, probably favors. But the random person on the street, it's a behavioral toxicity issue like flying with someone dying in flight from COVID. If you're going to take risks in public, do it, but if you're going to not take risks, wait through the winter to see real exposure post vaccination.

There's no way the effectiveness is going to stay 95% like efficacy given how small the trials and post-exposure with the evolving virus. It could be 0% if we didn't get a conserved region. We just don't know. But it is unconscionable to say what we don't know in effectiveness as we ourselves conflate with efficacy.

We seem to be conflating Emergency Authorization with Approval. Regulatory is taking a huge gamble with this, but the EUA was granted as the case morbidity and mortality rate is too high not to try.

As far as the HIV vaccine, why don't you ask Dr. Birx who presided over a career of failure on the subject? If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. But aside from HIV killing a bunch of people a certain party doesn't care about (which is arguably a major reason why we have an epidemic in the first place), it has never been given much love. Robert Redfield in an earlier Satanic incarnation, sentenced otherwise good soldiers into "hotels". If there is a Catholic afterlife that he believes in, I'm pretty sure where he's going.

It's our job not to mistake our motives for the patient's. Ask yourself whether your advice is what you want rather than what they need. Almost always, they are the same. But I find it hard to argue that at this stage, it's a universal recommendation like MMR or DTaP. If it passes into Approval, then yes. In the meantime, I'm glad we have enough volunteers.
 
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Vast country, yes. However the current party in control is semi-fascist.

One thing is this trend of "deIslamification of India". The Indian government is slowly trying to change the Arabic and Persian based names of cities to Hindi based names. It's like they are trying wipe away any memory of the Arab/Islamic conquests.
DeIslamification was already tried in 1947 when Pakistan was created. India's Muslim population is about the world's third-largest and the world's largest Muslim-minority population and majority of them live happily and peacefully. All of Arabic/Isamic based names of cities were replaced from original Hindu/Indian names during Islamic invasion between 12th and 16th century. Nothing wrong in giving back their original names.

Current Indian government was chosen by majority of people in India and has been ruling since 2014. Rise of the ruling party was rooted from deep muslim appeasement policies of prior governments.
 
Vast country, yes. However the current party in control is semi-fascist.

One thing is this trend of "deIslamification of India". The Indian government is slowly trying to change the Arabic and Persian based names of cities to Hindi based names. It's like they are trying wipe away any memory of the Arab/Islamic conquests.
To be fair they did this with British names of Indian cities as well.
 
May be a dumb question, but why there is no vaccine for HIV yet?
There is one! At least I recall mixing vaccines for it. I did not follow-up with its efficacy and why the FDA did not approve of it though. Not all vaccines make it through for various reasons beyond efficacy.
 
FYI...
70% of the pharmacists I work with at 2 different hospitals are not taking it. One hospital pharmacists staying in central
My main hospital is currently an all covid hospital and rph decentralized.
 
The 95% efficacy is abso-effing-lutey going to go down. Most COVID vaccine studies were designed to enroll subjects with an increased risk of exposure to COVID-19, but we’ve had an unprecedented amount of selfish people lying their asses off to be enrolled in the study for the chance to get the vaccine. These a-holes are not essential workers (like they’re supposed to be to prove efficacy for the study vaccine) but many of them are working from home or are retired and hiding in their bunkers. The vaccines are still probably efficacious enough for approval, but 95% is just not true.
 
FYI...
70% of the pharmacists I work with at 2 different hospitals are not taking it. One hospital pharmacists staying in central
My main hospital is currently an all covid hospital and rph decentralized.
Do you live in a red or blue state?
 
The 95% efficacy is abso-effing-lutey going to go down. Most COVID vaccine studies were designed to enroll subjects with an increased risk of exposure to COVID-19, but we’ve had an unprecedented amount of selfish people lying their asses off to be enrolled in the study for the chance to get the vaccine. These a-holes are not essential workers (like they’re supposed to be to prove efficacy for the study vaccine) but many of them are working from home or are retired and hiding in their bunkers. The vaccines are still probably efficacious enough for approval, but 95% is just not true.
That would only increase the "true" efficacy. The "liars" would wind up in both placebo and treatment cohorts. Which would decrease the true denominator of "real" patients out there risking infection.

95% may very well wind up being higher than the percentage we see in the end, but the scenario you describe doesn't math.
 
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The 95% efficacy is abso-effing-lutey going to go down. Most COVID vaccine studies were designed to enroll subjects with an increased risk of exposure to COVID-19, but we’ve had an unprecedented amount of selfish people lying their asses off to be enrolled in the study for the chance to get the vaccine. These a-holes are not essential workers (like they’re supposed to be to prove efficacy for the study vaccine) but many of them are working from home or are retired and hiding in their bunkers. The vaccines are still probably efficacious enough for approval, but 95% is just not true.
How do you go about lying being an essential worker? Don't you have to show proof of employment
 
Changes level of exposure. If you are hiding in your basement and got trial vaccine, your efficacy would be 100%. We are all wearing masks and social distancing anyway. So the numbers are not real.

I think the point is that if you work in the basement of a hospital and see no one, it is not the same as doing flu shots with no mask or face shield on. That would be real efficacy to me.
 
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How would lying about being an essential worker change the efficacy of the vaccine?
That would only increase the "true" efficacy. The "liars" would wind up in both placebo and treatment cohorts. Which would decrease the true denominator of "real" patients out there risking infection.

95% may very well wind up being higher than the percentage we see in the end, but the scenario you describe doesn't math.
After thinking about it, I think you guys are right that a subject with low integrity may not actually influence the efficacy of the vaccine. But during enrollment, it has been frustrating because when subjects are dishonest, they’re also likely to go test themselves for antibodies and unblind themselves and ultimately if someone who receives placebo changes their normal behavior, that changes the outcome and validity of the study.

Ultimately, the participation of non-essential workers would reduce the power the the study results.
 
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70% of the pharmacists I work with at 2 different hospitals are not taking it
Seems to match up with what I'm hearing from my interns who also work hospital. The retail pharmacists that I talk to are all on board and will be getting it when offered.

This is in a blue state for whoever was curious.
 
And what were the health conditions of the volunteers, like from all walks of life?
Depends on the study and phase. I don’t want to speak specifically about any study. Usually phase 1/2 requires healthy volunteers with BMI <30 and absolutely no autoimmune diseases. Phase 3 is more liberal, and depending on the sponsor, will include select autoimmune diseases at the discretion of the principal investigator.
 
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I think that if all the subjects are the type to hide in the basement for 9 months then the placebo group would have had nearly equally low infection rates as the ones who received the vaccine. But that is not the case.
 
I was in the first round of people at my hospital to get the vaccine. Only thing I had was a "sore" arm for a 2 days. I say "sore" because it wasn't even as bad as a tetanus shot. My reaction to the flu shot last year was worse then this first COVID dose.
 
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Got my shot today, thanks science. #vaccinessavelives
 
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I only had injection site reaction once when I was in high school. Don’t know which vaccine but It was a b!tch! Was so sore I couldn’t lift my arm for 3 days and had to take pain-killer.

For current vaccines, Tdap is notorious for injection site. Shingrix can be bad too but most patients say it didn’t bother them. I guess we can add Covid vaccine in this list too.
 
Reactogenicity might be related to multiple components of the Tdap presentations (perhaps the diphtheria toxoid is more of an issue compared to tetanus toxoid itself)
 
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