Techs administering Covid vaccine

[CardinalGirl210]

With all the changes that have occurred with COVID and just the general decline of the pharmacist profession, I can’t help but think this is the beginning of the end. We are going to be replaced with more affordable labor.

In Texas, technicians taking verbal orders and completing transfers started off as a temporary accommodation, and now it’s a permanent change. I think vaccinations will be the same thing. These are probably easy tasks and don’t require much training, but as pharmacists we are not getting any new professional authorities. We not gaining prescriptive authority, but just having duties taken away while taking on more liability.

Am I being dramatic to think this the beginning of the end? Why pay a pharmacist $60-$75 just to check prescriptions and counsel?

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[M0df]

That's a nice salary you are looking at but it is not what employers are hiring at right now. I am not sure this will have any effect on salary.

There are fewer and fewer overlap shifts these days. So this will reduce those hours even more.

I don't think this actually matters in the grand scheme of things. Society needs more people to do immunizations. Pharmacy had to do this. Having someone under your supervision being allowed to do more, is a good thing, as long as each pharmacy still needs a pharmacist to operate. Also, you actually need quality and property trained people with you. You will be expected to have them.

PS. This is not the end. That started happening long time ago.

 

[VA77]

Don't worry, provider status is coming soon for techs. Hopefully we can work for them in the future.

But seriously, if techs continue to have additional duties put on them that require pharmacist purview then I can't see how malpractice insurance doesn't increase for us.

 

[Pronounce Doxazosin]

Yeah I have mixed feelings about techs vaccinating
It definitely de-values pharmacists, as this could potentially completely remove the pharmacist from the immunization process.

With that said, I think with the insanely high demand of COVID vaccine, it was a necessary procedure, as we simply don’t have enough immunizers in this country. And if COVID immunization becomes an annual vaccination, then the demand will stay high for a foreseeable future. Also, the if you look at the plus side, this reduces load on pharmacists and I don’t see state boards authorizing immunization at pharmacies without pharmacist supervision yet (but who knows in 10 years)

 

[radio frequency]

I think it’s not all bad that techs could immunize, but the tech should have to be signed off on for competency by the pharmacist. I’ve met some techs I wouldn’t trust at all for immunization. There are some I think that could do fine. But they are more rare (and more valuable).

 

[iamapharmacist]

Here is the thing. With this vaccination approval, im seeing techs that are acting like they’re pharmacists now. Problem im running into is, their knowledge is basically high school grad understanding of medicine and just because they know a few drug names and able to give shots, theyre talking to patients like theyre doctors. Had to discipline a tech because of that.

In reality, just because you can stick a needle in someone’s arm does not make you anything more who you really are.

Pharmacists still run pharmacy and we will continue to do so. Techs exist because of us.

 

[johnpharm01]

With all the changes that have occurred with COVID and just the general decline of the pharmacist profession, I can’t help but think this is the beginning of the end. We are going to be replaced with more affordable labor.

In Texas, technicians taking verbal orders and completing transfers started off as a temporary accommodation, and now it’s a permanent change. I think vaccinations will be the same thing. These are probably easy tasks and don’t require much training, but as pharmacists we are not getting any new professional authorities. We not gaining prescriptive authority, but just having duties taken away while taking on more liability.

Am I being dramatic to think this the beginning of the end? Why pay a pharmacist $60-$75 just to check prescriptions and counsel?

So your question is completely subjective in answering it. Call me old fashioned but having a tech do these things is a mistake. Is it the end of what? Pharmacy as a rewarding profession? That happened decades ago, most chains are flat out sweat shops. It's is taking away traditional pharmacist duties without replacing them with any. It does eliminate rph jobs.

 

[deleted1066189]

with virtual verification, us techs are getting more responsibility without being paid
i absolutely stay within my lane of scope, though we're expected at work to sometimes give out the DURs ourselves (aside from any drug interaction counsels)

 

[lord999]

The End is always near. We'll find something else to do. The idea of a technician is only about 50 years old, and before that, we used to do all of the scut work. Thank God we found more exploitable workers for those tasks now. If the techs would give all the immunizations, we could reserve ourselves for getting yelled at by customers and management more.

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[RxPreceptor]

Typical government expectations without a clue of the reality; technician pay and retention (more long term position) would have to be addressed. From what I've heard from other RPhs in states where techs are allowed to immunize, it's pretty much unheard of/not worth doing

 

[radio frequency]

The End is always near. We'll find something else to do. The idea of a technician is only about 50 years old, and before that, we used to do all of the scut work. Thank God we found more exploitable workers for those tasks now. If the techs would give all the immunizations, we could reserve ourselves for getting yelled at by customers and management more.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Subscription and open access journals from SAGE Publishing, the world's leading independent academic publisher.

journals.sagepub.com

That link is pure gold. Thanks for sharing!

 

[VA77]

The End is always near. We'll find something else to do. The idea of a technician is only about 50 years old, and before that, we used to do all of the scut work. Thank God we found more exploitable workers for those tasks now. If the techs would give all the immunizations, we could reserve ourselves for getting yelled at by customers and management more.

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Subscription and open access journals from SAGE Publishing, the world's leading independent academic publisher.

journals.sagepub.com

Damn. That editorial is as old as me and so accurate that it is scary. But if I told you an asteroid the size of Europe was going to hit the Earth in 40 years and everyone said it wouldn't kill everyone then how much of a genius really am I. I mean you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know the more duties you take from pharmacists without adding more clinical services then you don't need as many.

 

[footfairy]

Only 1 store in my district receives extra RPH hours during flu season. So in an immediate sense this doesnt really effect RPH jobs in my area (I guess it cuts like 16 rph hours a week for 8 months of the year?)

The further down the line prospects look bleaker though, another step towards remote verification with no RPH present.

 

[croquemonsieur]

This would be great if each pharmacy got an extra, dedicated immunizing tech. In reality, what this will look like is the pharmacist doing way more tech work, answering all calls, ringing up all customers, manning the drive-thru, etc. while the tech(s) lollygag and drag out each immunization.

 

[Sine Cura]

Some pharmacists already drag out immunizations, i.e., taking 15 minutes to prep 2 shots for 1 person

 

[Chrish]

Today did 20 vaccines in a work-flow ie. no extra rph and it was a freaking nightmare.. Hope all techs get imz certified and take over this ****show.

 

[VA77]

This is what corporate wants. They want you do give away all your power and replace you with cheap techs by not giving you enough employees. They will do the same to techs too if they feel they can get by with it. In 10 years from now techs are counseling and ordering fentanyl. Very slippery slope with only cost not safety in mind.

 

[deleted1066189]

virtual verification is taking a toll on our store, DL is keeping it as we are lower volume but it's a struggle to keep up, along with all the crashes, lags and loads
put in my 2 weeks as a tech, gonna spend the last few months before med school taking it a little easier. might drop my hours to 10-15

 

[Sine Cura]

Today did 20 vaccines in a work-flow ie. no extra rph and it was a freaking nightmare.. Hope all techs get imz certified and take over this ****show.

Were you allowed to "flex up"?

I won't do this **** with 150 hrs on 1600 sold a week like I been scheduling lately

 

[Chrish]

Were you allowed to "flex up"?

I won't do this **** with 150 hrs on 1600 sold a week like I been scheduling lately

We are double coverage store that does 400+ a day on weekdays. There was no additional rph; just two regular rph so we had to do those 20 shots along with doing regular stuff.

Get 1.5 -2 extra tech to screen/ paper-work/ make appointments (we are manual at this point and will be going live online soon). Additional tech is great but extra burden on rph has been too much.

 

[Sine Cura]

They would definitely rather pay an extra tech to do shots than a pharmacist but can't find either. lol

This sat the "surge pay" kicks in and no shots available.

 

[VA77]

The sad thing is chain pharmacists have no say in it. Not once have I been asked if it is ok for a tech to do a vaccine under my license. I have a problem with that.

 

[Pronounce Doxazosin]

The sad thing is chain pharmacists have no say in it. Not once have I been asked if it is ok for a tech to do a vaccine under my license. I have a problem with that.

I don’t see why you wouldn’t be able to stop techs from vaccinating while you work
You are still in charge after all, so you should be able to delegate tasks to them accordingly

 

[VA77]

No corporate is in charge.

 

[Sine Cura]

We are supposed to accept this because we are part of the rEcOvErY / rEoPeNiNg

 

[Sparda29]

I just saw a emergency authorization for pharmacy techs to administer Covid vaccines in NYS.

Meanwhile in NYS, pharmacists cannot immunize babies or administer all vaccines.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

I just saw a emergency authorization for pharmacy techs to administer Covid vaccines in NYS.

Meanwhile in NYS, pharmacists cannot immunize babies or administer all vaccines.

Is that something you actually want to do? I already have enough 3-5 year olds that I don't feel all that comfortable with

 

[Sine Cura]

Lots of states (prob) don't allow pharmacists to immunize that young. Youngins should get their shots at a real clinic, not some retail clown-show environment.

I would expect this emergency authorization to be withdrawn eventually but chains might lobby for a permanent expansion of permitted tech duties

 

[Sparda29]

Is that something you actually want to do? I already have enough 3-5 year olds that I don't feel all that comfortable with

If I have enough practice, sure, I'm willing to do it.

I'm not cool with allowing techs to do anything other than bill, count pills, pull meds, refill Pyxis, and deliver. I definitely don't want them mixing IVs, compounding or immunizing, that **** takes away jobs from a pharmacist.

 

[iamapharmacist]

Not sure how this will impact us but in texas, on top of techs being able to vaccinate, techs could now do non-control transfers and non-control verbal prescriptions intake. This has big corp written all over. Give techs more duties and take away from rph. Cheap labor, more profit.

 

[Chrish]

Techs transferring prescriptions is nothing new.. Has been legal in some states for years.

I wouldn’t trust them to take verbal order though unless it’s a refill authorization of previously filled script.

 

[Xenophylia]

Wow. Most of the retail techs I worked with couldn't even breathe correctly if they didn't have a phone app to do it for 'em. SOOOOOOOOOO glad retail is behind me now. The place I work for now (LTC) actually fires incompetent techs, which is refreshing...

 

[Chrish]

Last two weeks have been challenging.. I have was worried about my job safety for a while like any sane pharmacist, but at this point it seems leaving this job may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Work environment has become toxic and overly stressful. Associates are stressed and they take it out on each other. My coworkers are contemplating whether to stay here or look for something else.

 

[VA77]

Last two weeks have been challenging.. I have was worried about my job safety for a while like any sane pharmacist, but at this point it seems leaving this job may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Work environment has become toxic and overly stressful. Associates are stressed and they take it out on each other. My coworkers are contemplating whether to stay here or look for something else.

Sums up my work environment perfectly. My boss is working like 60 hours a week which could go to other pharmacists. I don't understand this mentality unless you own the business or your getting a helluva bonus.

 

[iamapharmacist]

Last two weeks have been challenging.. I have was worried about my job safety for a while like any sane pharmacist, but at this point it seems leaving this job may not necessarily be a bad thing.

Work environment has become toxic and overly stressful. Associates are stressed and they take it out on each other. My coworkers are contemplating whether to stay here or look for something else.

Is this due to covid vaccine?

 

[Chrish]

Is this due to covid vaccine?

Yes.. It has been challenging for a while but now Covid vaccine has increased difficulty exponentially.

 

[Chrish]

Sums up my work environment perfectly. My boss is working like 60 hours a week which could go to other pharmacists. I don't understand this mentality unless you own the business or your getting a helluva bonus.

Yeah 60 hours for a manager sounds typical these days. I mean you may not necessarily spend that many hours inside the pharmacy but doing conference calls, keeping up with emails and following-up with coworkers on off days, it should add up to that many hours.

 

[iamapharmacist]

Yes.. It has been challenging for a while but now Covid vaccine has increased difficulty exponentially.

Have you looked into an independent pharmacy?

 

[thecoolpharmboi]

With all the changes that have occurred with COVID and just the general decline of the pharmacist profession, I can’t help but think this is the beginning of the end. We are going to be replaced with more affordable labor.

In Texas, technicians taking verbal orders and completing transfers started off as a temporary accommodation, and now it’s a permanent change. I think vaccinations will be the same thing. These are probably easy tasks and don’t require much training, but as pharmacists we are not getting any new professional authorities. We not gaining prescriptive authority, but just having duties taken away while taking on more liability.

Am I being dramatic to think this the beginning of the end? Why pay a pharmacist $60-$75 just to check prescriptions and counsel?

changes are going to take time and I think these tasks are being delegated to technicians to prep pharmacists to be able to take on new responsibilities and have more authority in the future. There’s already a bill being pushed for pharmacists to be able to test and then treat flu and strep throat infection. These changes they’re doing now is to help prepare us for future.

 

[WorthlessOxygen]

changes are going to take time and I think these tasks are being delegated to technicians to prep pharmacists to be able to take on new responsibilities and have more authority in the future. There’s already a bill being pushed for pharmacists to be able to test and then treat flu and strep throat infection. These changes they’re doing now is to help prepare us for future.

I envy your optimism

 

[johnpharm01]

changes are going to take time and I think these tasks are being delegated to technicians to prep pharmacists to be able to take on new responsibilities and have more authority in the future. There’s already a bill being pushed for pharmacists to be able to test and then treat flu and strep throat infection. These changes they’re doing now is to help prepare us for future.

What happens if there are no new duties? When I was in school over 20 years ago, clinical pharmacy and the value of pharmacists interventions were hyped. After all these years, I 've crossed paths with few clinical pharmacists working in medical offices. The ones I see also have limited role with limited clinical depth. Anticoag, the bastion of clinical pharmacy, won't be the same once xarelto and eliquis are generic. I am glad I am closer to the end of my career than the beginning.

 

[M0df]

Such a delicate line between well functioning pharmacy and sh show. All it takes is one change. One key member finally having enough of it.

 

[Xenophylia]

What happens if there are no new duties? When I was in school over 20 years ago, clinical pharmacy and the value of pharmacists interventions were hyped. After all these years, I 've crossed paths with few clinical pharmacists working in medical offices. The ones I see also have limited role with limited clinical depth. Anticoag, the bastion of clinical pharmacy, won't be the same once xarelto and eliquis are generic. I am glad I am closer to the end of my career than the beginning.

Yeah- since I graduated almost 40 years ago, about all we've gotten in the "new responsibilities" category is the ability to vaccinate. Whoopee! Something that requires literally no skill or education at all but is simply grunt work that eats up more of our time. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for all of those new responsibilities if history is any predictor of the future.... No matter what the schools are saying. LOL

 

[johnpharm01]

Yeah- since I graduated almost 40 years ago, about all we've gotten in the "new responsibilities" category is the ability to vaccinate. Whoopee! Something that requires literally no skill or education at all but is simply grunt work that eats up more of our time. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for all of those new responsibilities if history is any predictor of the future.... No matter what the schools are saying. LOL

40 years and you are still working?

 

[VA77]

One thing about all this is that I'm seeing more school leadership talking with their peers in lobbying efforts to both state and federal. Even talking about biannual trips to state capitals with all the students. They are really starting to feel the decline in the pocket book and know they gotta offer more for the professions to keep admissions up.4

 

[Xenophylia]

Wife doesn't work and hasn't for years so only my income. Easier to get stuff done at home that way. Gonna be retiring in the next 3-4 years hopefully. No debt whatsoever. Most recently took lower paying, better quality of life jobs. If the job is tolerable why not just continue to soak up the $$$?

 

[Sine Cura]

I would be lucky to be paid a decent income in my pharmacy dotage

 

[BidingMyTime]

40 years and you are still working?

Pharmacists don't retire, they work until they die. While there are a few rare exceptions of pharmacists who invested well on this board, 99% of pharmacists, like the general public, have very little retirement savings.

 

[BenJammin]

I have zero sympathy for any of you. You folks have begged and begged and BEGGED for this. You whined on the Facebook groups. You whined to the state board. You're getting everything you wanted. Put a smile on your face.

 

[owlegrad]

I have zero sympathy for any of you. You folks have begged and begged and BEGGED for this. You whined on the Facebook groups. You whined to the state board. You're getting everything you wanted. Put a smile on your face.

You aren’t one of us? Who are “you folks”?