• Forums Updates - Tuesday at 1:00 AM Eastern
    We will be performing some system maintenance on Tuesday, June 11 starting around 1:00 AM Eastern. The forums will be unavailable for approximately one hour.

MD & DO Co’22 ERAS Panic Thread

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Is everyone applying to do just one away rotation (so only like <20 VSAS apps to yield 1)?

I know the guideline is just one per rotator per specialty and I am curious if people are ignoring this or applying to multiple rotations so they can get exposure at an institution or something.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Is everyone applying to do just one away rotation (so only like <20 VSAS apps to yield 1)?

I know the guideline is just one per rotator per specialty and I am curious if people are ignoring this or applying to multiple rotations so they can get exposure at an institution or something.
Nope lol, ive submitted 168 total. Ive said it before, but my school has all of next year be aways. I don't have a core site
 
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 user
Looking on reddit looks like VSAS is utter chaos right now. grateful I had two hospitals that opened up applications back in February
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Looking on reddit looks like VSAS is utter chaos right now. grateful I had two hospitals that opened up applications back in February
I scheduled two auditions at programs considered "in-system" for my school back in February and March and since they're recommending only two auditions for EM, I'm also happy to avoid the VSAS chaos. I wanted to do a third audition at a traditionally MD program but I'm just rolling with what I have so I don't have to answer for why I did more than what was recommended and have that potentially be a negative on my application.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Is everyone applying to do just one away rotation (so only like <20 VSAS apps to yield 1)?

I know the guideline is just one per rotator per specialty and I am curious if people are ignoring this or applying to multiple rotations so they can get exposure at an institution or something.
I wish.

I would really love to do just one away, period. My third year core site says I can stay here, so I could per my site... but my school says I’m not allowed to. So I’m trying to do one rotation per subspecialty. I’m gonna end up doing at least six aways, and that’s if I can fly under the radar and do a few extra at my third year core site.

Hell, I have to do an away in geriatrics, of all things, because there are no geriatrics-boarded doctors where I live, so I’ll have to travel to do geriatrics even if I just find an office-based rotation.

I’m feeling the squeeze filling out these apps. The schools/facilities that have you check the box “I am only applying to one away rotation” are ones I’ve had to pass over because... well... maybe no one would check, but I would feel terrible if I lied and checked that box and it came back to bite me later.
 
  • Like
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 users
I only applied to one away, at one of my top choice programs. 3/5 of my top programs aren’t offering any aways... boo. And I just can’t justify housing expenses/travel to do an away at a program I’d rank 6th or lower. My fingers are crossed reeeeallll tight for that one application though!
 
Just passing through to say that last year I was able to schedule 5 aways without VSAS by directly emailing program coordinators and using ClinicianNexxus. Admittedly, these weren't Ivy league or academic powerhouses but they were still solid community programs. I had to cancel all but one of them due to COVID but it was nice to have something in hand.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Just passing through to say that last year I was able to schedule 5 aways without VSAS by directly emailing program coordinators and using ClinicianNexxus. Admittedly, these weren't Ivy league or academic powerhouses but they were still solid community programs. I had to cancel all but one of them due to COVID but it was nice to have something in hand.
Isnt clinician nexus just HCA
 
The stupidest part of VSAS is that everyone doesn't use the same start and end dates for each block. I'm worried it'll be a nightmare to plan the year once offers roll in and so many are off by a day or two for start and end time
 
Isnt clinician nexus just HCA

For the most part, yes, they are HCA program rotations, however, I wouldn't let that get in the away of applying for rotations there as a backup. You can always cancel them with adequate notice if something better comes up. I did my one allowed audition last year at an HCA program near home because I couldn't get anything through VSAS. It did not hinder my application whatsoever. In fact they wrote me a great letter and I got plenty of interview invites.

Sure you wouldn't end up ranking these programs at the top of your list but rotating with them isn't some sort of red flag.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Has anyone heard anything about interviews for the coming season? Virtual? In person? A mix?
Didnt OBGYN release a letter saying everyone should continue offering virtual? I think virtual interviews + in person second looks makes the most sense. Hospitals all look the same inside anyways, theres no reason to make people fly out before they're ranked even without COVID
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Has anyone heard anything about interviews for the coming season? Virtual? In person? A mix?
OBGYN released a statement for programs to continue on with virtual. I also looked at a few programs in different specialties that already said they are staying virtual for the upcoming season. My wallet is very excited.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 users
OBGYN released a statement for programs to continue on with virtual. I also looked at a few programs in different specialties that already said they are staying virtual for the upcoming season. My wallet is very excited.
Do you have a link to that statement?
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 users
Have only heard the ACOG recommendation. I don't care about spending the money (I'm 100% loans). Would much prefer the opportunity to feel cities/programs out and stand out in person.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Ugh, this was not the news I wanted to hear. Virtual is great financially, but it allows people to apply to so many more places, increasing the chance to miss an interview invite or have your app not even be reviewed/not receive a good review.

Plus it's so much easier to mess up a virtual interview imo. not only do you have to talk awkwardly to the green dot on your webcam in order to maintain eye contact, but suddenly lighting, angles, background, speed/latency, etc become potential issues.

I'd rather pay an extra couple grand traveling than deal with virtual interviews.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
1619370446304.png
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
OBGYN released a statement for programs to continue on with virtual. I also looked at a few programs in different specialties that already said they are staying virtual for the upcoming season. My wallet is very excited.
Same, I’d rather save the money. I’m perfectly fine with totally virtual, or as @efle said, virtual with a second look in person. I’m liking those suggestions ACOG is making, regarding interview number/timeline.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I personally think the best option is 100% virtual interviews with a cap on either applications or how many interviews one could attend. Then an optional 2nd look in-person just for students to “interview” the program, but not to act as a second interview of the applicant.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I personally think the best option is 100% virtual interviews with a cap on either applications or how many interviews one could attend. Then an optional 2nd look in-person just for students to “interview” the program, but not to act as a second interview of the applicant.
I like this. There are maybe 2-3 programs that I would actually want to visit, but it would honestly be a mini-vacation with the added benefit of getting to see the programs.
 
Just to echo one of the previous posters - VSAS is a black hole and EXTREMELY low yield

Apply through cliniciannexus, former AOA programs (more likely to have their own app process), new programs that haven't transitioned to VSAS yet etc. Your success rate jumps exponentially the further you go from VSAS

Most likely outcome with VSAS:
1) Ghosted
2) Rejections, often too late - I got two this month and my residency starts in June..
3) Maybe you'll land a couple if you apply to a $hit ton. It's basically just gambling your money and praying
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Have only heard the ACOG recommendation. I don't care about spending the money (I'm 100% loans). Would much prefer the opportunity to feel cities/programs out and stand out in person.
You can still do that after your interviews on second look day. Not everybody has the option to spend lots of money to travel around for interviews, and it limits them greatly. Personally, I think virtual interviewing with in person visit afterwards is the best option for everybody.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Anyone heard from radiology programs on this? I looked at a few I’m planning to apply to and they don’t seem to have anything up.
 
I feel like if anyone would be online it would be radiology. they already spend their lives in front of the computer rather than in front of people
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
You can still do that after your interviews on second look day. Not everybody has the option to spend lots of money to travel around for interviews, and it limits them greatly. Personally, I think virtual interviewing with in person visit afterwards is the best option for everybody.
I do not agree, but hey whatever the rules are for a given cycle, we all have to play by them anyway :)

Having to actually attend interviews could be protective from interview hoarding. We also have 3.5 years to save loans for this. I'm not sure there's a ton of time to have virtual interview days and visit places in person within a few months of 4th year either. This increases the risk of selecting bad programs that advertise well, or missing programs that advertise poorly but provide good training.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I do not agree, but hey whatever the rules are for a given cycle, we all have to play by them anyway :)

Having to actually attend interviews could be protective from interview hoarding. We also have 3.5 years to save loans for this. I'm not sure there's a ton of time to have virtual interview days and visit places in person within a few months of 4th year either. This increases the risk of selecting bad programs that advertise well, or missing programs that advertise poorly but provide good training.
Agreed. I’ve been saving loans for this since day 1.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Every single one of these should just become the standard tbh. I'm most concerned about having to stop on the side of the highway or in the middle of seeing a patient because an interview invite comes in. Completely ridiculous. I'm conflicted on virtual interviews, but overall I think the pros outweigh the cons. I am concerned about it leading to more people going on interviews-- I know for myself personally, I likely would have cancelled interviews in my med school state had I received a comfortable amount in my target region. If they're online, I'll likely still attend them because...why not. But overall, not having to travel and spend thousands appeals to me more.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Every single one of these should just become the standard tbh. I'm most concerned about having to stop on the side of the highway or in the middle of seeing a patient because an interview invite comes in. Completely ridiculous. I'm conflicted on virtual interviews, but overall I think the pros outweigh the cons. I am concerned about it leading to more people going on interviews-- I know for myself personally, I likely would have cancelled interviews in my med school state had I received a comfortable amount in my target region. If they're online, I'll likely still attend them because...why not. But overall, not having to travel and spend thousands appeals to me more.

I think data showed that this last cycle, there wasn’t a significant amount of interview hoarding. People still canceled interviews.
 
I do not agree, but hey whatever the rules are for a given cycle, we all have to play by them anyway :)

Having to actually attend interviews could be protective from interview hoarding. We also have 3.5 years to save loans for this. I'm not sure there's a ton of time to have virtual interview days and visit places in person within a few months of 4th year either. This increases the risk of selecting bad programs that advertise well, or missing programs that advertise poorly but provide good training.
Not all of us have the luxury of putting that much money aside, over 3.5 years or otherwise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
I think data showed that this last cycle, there wasn’t a significant amount of interview hoarding. People still canceled interviews.
Yeah I remember. That's just the only potential con I can see to virtual interviews. Of course it's "nicer" to see things in person and interact with people not via a webcam, but I think that's just a minor thing and it doesn't really bother me that much. Realistically, spending a single day in a city where you're at the hospital the entire day isn't going to give you a good feel for the area. And, everyone and everything is on their best behavior for these kinds of things anyways. It makes more sense for them to be virtual, if and only if for the huge financial and time/travel savings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
In other news I tried to write a rough draft of my PS and damn, saying everything in one page is rough, especially when trying to fit in location preference as well. Basically going to toss this whole one in the trash and try again lol. It's gonna be rough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I think data showed that this last cycle, there wasn’t a significant amount of interview hoarding. People still canceled interviews.
I believe all we know right now is that the overall post-SOAP match rate was unchanged and that Thalamus interviews (a small fraction) had few hoarders. The kinds of info we actually want - avg ranklist position reached, percent home matching, avg yield on interviews for the upper vs lower quartiles, etc - will probably never be known. Per the grapevine, across student bodies at several "t20" schools (who everyone predicted would most benefit/hoard) the match was abnormally bad last cycle. I'm skeptical it was really business as usual but theres no way to understand why at the moment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
In other news I tried to write a rough draft of my PS and damn, saying everything in one page is rough, especially when trying to fit in location preference as well. Basically going to toss this whole one in the trash and try again lol. It's gonna be rough.
You're gonna be fine, nobody selects residents on their personal statement unless you've got something very unusual to share with them
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
In other news I tried to write a rough draft of my PS and damn, saying everything in one page is rough, especially when trying to fit in location preference as well. Basically going to toss this whole one in the trash and try again lol. It's gonna be rough.
I wrote mine up last October, but decided to drop a little cash on Fiverr to have a professional editor look at it. Was helpful, if you have the spare cash for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You're gonna be fine, nobody selects residents on their personal statement unless you've got something very unusual to share with them
It's more so that it's the only spot I have to convey why I'm targeting these community programs in my hometown with my stats. I don't want places to think I'm using them as a safety. Just a little as expected neuroticism from me ha.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I believe all we know right now is that the overall post-SOAP match rate was unchanged and that Thalamus interviews (a small fraction) had few hoarders. The kinds of info we actually want - avg ranklist position reached, percent home matching, avg yield on interviews for the upper vs lower quartiles, etc - will probably never be known. Per the grapevine, across student bodies at several "t20" schools (who everyone predicted would most benefit/hoard) the match was abnormally bad last cycle. I'm skeptical it was really business as usual but theres no way to understand why at the moment.
Wow. How could the virtual interview process hurt a t20 applicant? I saw a t20 applicant at a community rads interview. Everybody wants you guys.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I believe all we know right now is that the overall post-SOAP match rate was unchanged and that Thalamus interviews (a small fraction) had few hoarders. The kinds of info we actually want - avg ranklist position reached, percent home matching, avg yield on interviews for the upper vs lower quartiles, etc - will probably never be known. Per the grapevine, across student bodies at several "t20" schools (who everyone predicted would most benefit/hoard) the match was abnormally bad last cycle. I'm skeptical it was really business as usual but theres no way to understand why at the moment.
Actually, pre-SOAP numbers were pretty close to previous years too.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Wow. How could the virtual interview process hurt a t20 applicant? I saw a t20 applicant at a community rads interview. Everybody wants you guys.
I was also surprised. This is all speculation but I could think of a few reasons. More yield protection on PD's end; lack of backup specialty dual apps; less broad lists / less aggressive advising due to never having lots of unmatched students before; inability to show off inhuman work ethics on aways; related - more programs taking their home students as the only known quantities that year; lack of app coordination leading to hoarding behaviors within the school cohort for a given specialty (one applicant having >30 interviews while peer has <10); more emphasis on expressions of interest/intent and students all aiming high with theirs; probably more I'm forgetting.

Again we'll never have enough information to figure it out. Everyone should expect the unexpected and apply broadly. You can always turn down interviews.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
In other news I tried to write a rough draft of my PS and damn, saying everything in one page is rough, especially when trying to fit in location preference as well. Basically going to toss this whole one in the trash and try again lol. It's gonna be rough.
What helped me was to have a modular structure to keep everything organized. My structure:

1st paragraph: very briefly why I pursued medicine
2nd paragraph: why I chose to pursue my speciality (rads). Having pt. anecdotes here help
3rd paragraph: what I bring to the table. I noted 2-3 important ECs/leadership/research (eg. med ed, global health) from my CV, highlighted how each contributed to my character growth and how I plan to remain involved during residency.
4th paragraph: what I seek from training programs. Added a few sentences at the end of this paragraph to personalize the essay based on location, program type etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
What helped me was to have a modular structure to keep everything organized. My structure:

1st paragraph: very briefly why I pursued medicine
2nd paragraph: why I chose to pursue my speciality (rads). Having pt. anecdotes here help
3rd paragraph: what I bring to the table. I noted 2-3 important ECs/leadership/research (eg. med ed, global health) from my CV, highlighted how each contributed to my character growth and how I plan to remain involved during residency.
4th paragraph: what I seek from training programs. Added a few sentences at the end of this paragraph to personalize the essay based on location, program type etc.
Thanks! This is helpful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I believe all we know right now is that the overall post-SOAP match rate was unchanged and that Thalamus interviews (a small fraction) had few hoarders. The kinds of info we actually want - avg ranklist position reached, percent home matching, avg yield on interviews for the upper vs lower quartiles, etc - will probably never be known. Per the grapevine, across student bodies at several "t20" schools (who everyone predicted would most benefit/hoard) the match was abnormally bad last cycle. I'm skeptical it was really business as usual but theres no way to understand why at the moment.

We got to see some of the early NRMP data at the IMPD meeting. It will all be out shortly -- the data report comes in May. The overall data shows that the match was mostly the same, with a small signal of being worse for USMD's. Program rank lists were longer by 10-15%, presumably due to increased interview invites. Applicant rank lists were 10-15% longer, for the same reason. Although all rank lists were longer on average, the effect was more pronounced in those with longer ranklists -- some evidence of hoarding. But the difference was very small.

USMD total match rate was down by about 1% absolute (that data is already out). Top 1 / Top 4 matching was also slightly down by about 2% absolute -- so if last year 48% of people match to their top 4, this year it was 46%.

So it all depends on what you want to see in these numbers. If you want to see interview hoarding, it's there. If you want to claim the match was worse, it's there. But the effect size is very small and likely clinically insignificant.

What helped me was to have a modular structure to keep everything organized. My structure:

1st paragraph: very briefly why I pursued medicine
2nd paragraph: why I chose to pursue my speciality (rads). Having pt. anecdotes here help
3rd paragraph: what I bring to the table. I noted 2-3 important ECs/leadership/research (eg. med ed, global health) from my CV, highlighted how each contributed to my character growth and how I plan to remain involved during residency.
4th paragraph: what I seek from training programs. Added a few sentences at the end of this paragraph to personalize the essay based on location, program type etc.
Ug. This is the classic, boring personal statement. It's safe, and pointless. I was going to share my list of what NOT to put in your personal statement:

1. Why you went into medicine. Trust me, your reasons are probably not terribly different than anyone else's. If your pathway is really unique, great, tell me about it.
2. Why you chose IM (or specialty). In IM, it's usually "I like solving puzzles", or "I like longitudinal care of patients"
3. Repeat your CV in prose format. I already can see your CV. Repeating it doesn't add anything.
3b. Name drop faculty you have worked with. That don't impress me much.
4. Tell me about some patient or clinical story. Why would you do this, you think I don't see plenty of patients?
5. What you're looking for in a program. Usually cut-and-pasted from the program's website.
6. Some random quote from someone. Why exactly?

Here's a thought: It's called a Personal Statement. Perhaps tell me something about yourself that's not in your application.
 
  • Like
  • Hmm
  • Love
Reactions: 9 users
While we're on the topic of personal statements/why we picked our field, any thoughts on how bad an idea it is (if it is) to express how we had a change of heart about our interest in a specialty (that we're obviously now fully committed to)? Should we be open about that or pretend we were gung ho all along?

I didn't think I would want to work with kids at all, then had a whole existential crisis about how much i loved my peds rotation, and now I'm applying med/peds. In retrospect, I can now tie a lot of my previous interests into peds but i definitely didn't come in planning on it. I don't think I'll feature it in my personal statement but it tends to come up when i talk to people about my specialty choice in normal conversation, so I don't know if i should try to avoid it in interviews, etc
 
oh also, do we have a date yet for match day 2022? trying to schedule my life far in advance
 
We got to see some of the early NRMP data at the IMPD meeting. It will all be out shortly -- the data report comes in May. The overall data shows that the match was mostly the same, with a small signal of being worse for USMD's. Program rank lists were longer by 10-15%, presumably due to increased interview invites. Applicant rank lists were 10-15% longer, for the same reason. Although all rank lists were longer on average, the effect was more pronounced in those with longer ranklists -- some evidence of hoarding. But the difference was very small.

USMD total match rate was down by about 1% absolute (that data is already out). Top 1 / Top 4 matching was also slightly down by about 2% absolute -- so if last year 48% of people match to their top 4, this year it was 46%.

So it all depends on what you want to see in these numbers. If you want to see interview hoarding, it's there. If you want to claim the match was worse, it's there. But the effect size is very small and likely clinically insignificant.


Ug. This is the classic, boring personal statement. It's safe, and pointless. I was going to share my list of what NOT to put in your personal statement:

1. Why you went into medicine. Trust me, your reasons are probably not terribly different than anyone else's. If your pathway is really unique, great, tell me about it.
2. Why you chose IM (or specialty). In IM, it's usually "I like solving puzzles", or "I like longitudinal care of patients"
3. Repeat your CV in prose format. I already can see your CV. Repeating it doesn't add anything.
3b. Name drop faculty you have worked with. That don't impress me much.
4. Tell me about some patient or clinical story. Why would you do this, you think I don't see plenty of patients?
5. What you're looking for in a program. Usually cut-and-pasted from the program's website.
6. Some random quote from someone. Why exactly?

Here's a thought: It's called a Personal Statement. Perhaps tell me something about yourself that's not in your application.
What if I have the brains AND the touch?

Edit: really hope your “that don’t impress me much” line was a Shania Twain quote, otherwise my post sounds way creepy
 
  • Like
  • Love
  • Wow
Reactions: 9 users
What helped me was to have a modular structure to keep everything organized. My structure:

1st paragraph: very briefly why I pursued medicine
2nd paragraph: why I chose to pursue my speciality (rads). Having pt. anecdotes here help
3rd paragraph: what I bring to the table. I noted 2-3 important ECs/leadership/research (eg. med ed, global health) from my CV, highlighted how each contributed to my character growth and how I plan to remain involved during residency.
4th paragraph: what I seek from training programs. Added a few sentences at the end of this paragraph to personalize the essay based on location, program type etc.
How did you manage to keep it under 650 words? That seems like a lot of paragraphs for such a short essay.
 
Not all of us have the luxury of putting that much money aside, over 3.5 years or otherwise.
I think medical education is far too expensive. It's ridiculous. I think that for most but not all people your comment is a cop-out. Expressing that a known (previously) fixed cost that everyone knew about is "a luxury" is untrue. It was part of the cost of med school.

Being unable to set aside 1% of your loan disbursement for a predictably-costly interview season usually but not always speaks either to financial irresponsibility or poor planning. Of course anything with increased cost is going to disproportionately benefit wealthy people. That is unavoidable. But fortunately the purpose of student loans is to at least even the playing field a little; we can all afford medical education with them. I think it's easier to hide the negative effect of virtual interviews because it will develop over years of discontent and passive regret and people generally view the program they choose through rose-colored glasses (as they should!). I want to know as much as I can about as many programs as I can to make an informed decision. Virtual interviews achieve that to a lesser extent.

The benefits of in-person interviewing outweigh the financial costs in my opinion. I know this isn't a popular opinion because more money = bad for most people...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I think medical education is far too expensive. It's ridiculous. I think that for most but not all people your comment is a cop-out. Expressing that a known (previously) fixed cost that everyone knew about is "a luxury" is untrue. It was part of the cost of med school.

Being unable to set aside 1% of your loan disbursement for a predictably-costly interview season usually but not always speaks either to financial irresponsibility or poor planning. Of course anything with increased cost is going to disproportionately benefit wealthy people. That is unavoidable. But fortunately the purpose of student loans is to at least even the playing field a little; we can all afford medical education with them. I think it's easier to hide the negative effect of virtual interviews because it will develop over years of discontent and passive regret and people generally view the program they choose through rose-colored glasses (as they should!). I want to know as much as I can about as many programs as I can to make an informed decision. Virtual interviews achieve that to a lesser extent.

The benefits of in-person interviewing outweigh the financial costs in my opinion. I know this isn't a popular opinion because more money = bad for most people...
You're probably single with no kids. I presume.

Edit: It's not that I couldn't afford in person interviews, but that I also have other expenses to make that could benefit from virtual interviews. Also virtual interviews give me the flexibility of applying to more reach programs that I probably wouldn't have applied to otherwise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
USMD total match rate was down by about 1% absolute (that data is already out). Top 1 / Top 4 matching was also slightly down by about 2% absolute -- so if last year 48% of people match to their top 4, this year it was 46%.
I thought the data for past years consistently showed that 80+% of people matched in their top 3 choices overall?
 
Top