California Northstate University College of Medicine(CNUCOM): Avoid this school at all costs!

[soporspelare]

Isn’t there another one already in California? Cal health sciences?

Yes, I think it has a relation to the founder of CNU but I might be confusing it with another school

CUSM is technically nonprofit but Dr. Prem Reddy (previously mentioned in this thread) is involved, which should skeeve anybody out

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[jhmmd]

What about the anti-trust case in 1996 against the ABA that resulted in the for-profit law school precedent that caused the LCME and COCA to initially loosen up on for-profit schools?

Does that apply to med schools, too? Undergrad too?

 

[soporspelare]

I'm not a lawyer, and have never heard of this one.

Does that apply to med schools, too? Undergrad too?

Not an expert either, but I was looking into this last night and found some context here:

U.S. v. American Bar Association, 135 F. Supp. 2d 28 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read U.S. v. American Bar Association, 135 F. Supp. 2d 28, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database

casetext.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1995/06/28/aba-settles-antitrust-case-over-certifying-law-schools/91496e17-3da3-4640-bf50-5b76db84e01d/

Justice Department Asks Court to Hold American Bar Association in Civil Contempt - ABA Acknowledges Consent Decree Violations and Agrees to Pay $185,000

From what I can tell, this set a precedent for for-profit law schools to proliferate, which caused the ABA to chill out, and recently caused LCME and COCA to loosen up as well. This is all initially sourced from an NPR article I was reading through, found here:

Once Banned, For-Profit Medical Schools Are On The Rise Again In The U.S.

Montana is one of only four states without a medical school, and two groups with different financial models hope to remedy that. One plans a for-profit school, but critics say students may suffer.

www.npr.org

 

[deleted1129181]

What about the anti-trust case in 1996 against the ABA that resulted in the for-profit law school precedent that caused the LCME and COCA to initially loosen up on for-profit schools?

COCA’s DO school expansion was well controlled at first but then went out of control. About half of these are already established DO schools that are opening satellite campuses.

I am convinced that a certain DO school that rhymes with Jake Mrie is just an organized Ponzi scheme. Their Florida campus has terrible clinical rotations and the Greensburg campus doesn’t have an anatomy lab. Why on Earth did they get approved to open another campus?? Probably so that they can continue to fund their existing campuses. Several students at their school have claimed that administration loves to remind them about the cheap tuition whenever complaints come up.

 

[soporspelare]

COCA’s DO school expansion was well controlled at first but then went out of control. About half of these are already established DO schools that are opening satellite campuses.

I am convinced that a certain DO school that rhymes with Jake Mrie is just an organized Ponzi scheme. Their Florida campus has terrible clinical rotations and the Greensburg campus doesn’t have an anatomy lab. Why on Earth did they get approved to open another campus?? Probably so that they can continue to fund their existing campuses. Several students at their school have claimed that administration loves to remind them about the cheap tuition whenever complaints come up.

I'm just incredulous at the degree and extent of incompetency and greed here - truly there are no bounds to predatory capitalistic investment ventures. When there's blood to be had, the sharks will start swimming.

 

[Goro]

COCA’s DO school expansion was well controlled at first but then went out of control. About half of these are already established DO schools that are opening satellite campuses.

I am convinced that a certain DO school that rhymes with Jake Mrie is just an organized Ponzi scheme. Their Florida campus has terrible clinical rotations and the Greensburg campus doesn’t have an anatomy lab. Why on Earth did they get approved to open another campus?? Probably so that they can continue to fund their existing campuses. Several students at their school have claimed that administration loves to remind them about the cheap tuition whenever complaints come up.

AOA: "More DOs good!"

 

[jhmmd]

COCA’s DO school expansion was well controlled at first but then went out of control. About half of these are already established DO schools that are opening satellite campuses.

I am convinced that a certain DO school that rhymes with Jake Mrie is just an organized Ponzi scheme. Their Florida campus has terrible clinical rotations and the Greensburg campus doesn’t have an anatomy lab. Why on Earth did they get approved to open another campus?? Probably so that they can continue to fund their existing campuses. Several students at their school have claimed that administration loves to remind them about the cheap tuition whenever complaints come up.

Do you have any evidence for this? Like published articles from a reputable source?

 

[deleted1129181]

Do you have any evidence for this? Like published articles from a reputable source?

Just look at all their students who complain on Reddit and this site.

 

[jhmmd]

Just look at all their students who complain on Reddit and this site.

I meant like what was outlined above.
Reddit =/= SDN.
Circular reasoning works because...

 

[deleted1129181]

I meant like what was outlined above.
Reddit =/= SDN.
Circular reasoning works because...

You do you man.

 

[soporspelare]

Any specifics on LECOM aside, I think we can all agree that for-profit structures are antithetical to the purpose of medical education, and will always end up clashing with the best interests of students. I truly am worried for the future if it continues to be legal for desperate premeds to be milked and discarded as fodder for the interests of shareholders. In the instance of Prem Reddy opening CUSM, the guy already owns a 46-hospital healthcare system and profited off of fraudulent hospital admissions, kickbacks, and billings/reimbursements. The greed will never stop unless someone actually steps up to advocate against these ridiculous and predatory practices. Was the Flexner report all for nothing?

 

[jhmmd]

You do you man.

Ad hominem arguments are discouraged on this site. Please stick to the facts.

 

[jhmmd]

Any specifics on LECOM aside, I think we can all agree that for-profit structures are antithetical to the purpose of medical education, and will always end up clashing with the best interests of students. I truly am worried for the future if it continues to be legal for desperate premeds to be milked and discarded as fodder for the interests of shareholders. In the instance of Prem Reddy opening CUSM, the guy already owns a 46-hospital healthcare system and profited off of fraudulent hospital admissions, kickbacks, and billings/reimbursements. The greed will never stop unless someone actually steps up to advocate against these ridiculous and predatory practices. Was the Flexner report all for nothing?

I don't have a problem with for-profit schools as long as they are keeping students' best interests in mind. This country is based on capitalism but of course there are places where checks and balances are prudent.

There are plenty of for-profit undergraduate institutions. Someone needs to establish whether or not it is appropriate to extend these rights to graduate-level institutions, and with what limitations.

 

[soporspelare]

I don't have a problem with for-profit schools as long as they are keeping students' best interests in mind. This country is based on capitalism but of course there are places where checks and balances are prudent.

There are plenty of for-profit undergraduate institutions. Someone needs to establish whether or not it is appropriate to extend these rights to graduate-level institutions, and with what limitations.

For-profit institutions almost always fall short - I don’t think anybody would take UPhoenix or DeVry seriously, nor should they. Not to mention they have a track record of leaving students out in the cold a la Everest College. This has only continued with for-profit law schools following this same trajectory. At the end of the day, even with tuition increasing across the board at non-profit educational institutions, at least the money is going back into the school, and thus the students. There will always be something predatory about luring students in with the promise of education, and switching that with the reality of exploiting them for shareholder profits.

The Real Cost of For-Profit Education

Examining the cost of education at for-profit universities has the potential to spur reform in these institutions, writes Julie Margetta Morgan.

www.americanprogress.org

 

[deleted1129181]

I don't have a problem with for-profit schools as long as they are keeping students' best interests in mind. This country is based on capitalism but of course there are places where checks and balances are prudent.

There are plenty of for-profit undergraduate institutions. Someone needs to establish whether or not it is appropriate to extend these rights to graduate-level institutions, and with what limitations.

You can’t really compare undergrad and med school. The vast majority of undergrad classes just require a room (physical or virtual), a professor, and a white board. Even for labs, the material costs aren’t considerable.

But for med school, almost every dollar goes back to the student in some shape or form. Maintaining a cadaver lab, maintaining rotations, having admin overhead, etc, costs MONEY.

And just like with any for-profit business, there will always be an incentive to cut corners. Admin will ask itself whether anatomy labs are necessary if virtual anatomy will do, or what’s the highest student:receptor ratio they can get away with.

 

[jhmmd]

For-profit institutions almost always fall short - I don’t think anybody would take the UPhoenix or DeVry seriously, nor should they. Not to mention they have a track record of leaving students out in the cold a la Everest College. This has only continued with for-profit law schools following this same trajectory. At the end of the day, even with tuition increasing across the board at non-profit educational institutions, at least the money is going back into the school, and thus the students. There will always be something predatory about luring students in with the promise of education, and switching that with the reality of exploiting them for shareholder profits.

The Real Cost of For-Profit Education

Examining the cost of education at for-profit universities has the potential to spur reform in these institutions, writes Julie Margetta Morgan.

www.americanprogress.org

Well there will always be outliers and exceptions to the rule, but I don't think for-profit schools in general are a bad idea. Private vs. public nor for-profit/non-profit don't necessarily deem a school "bad or "good;" it often comes down to funding from rich donors, alumni, and the like. How this money is allocated is a different matter, and I think this is where we need more laws outlining how much money actually goes towards students' education vs. what goes elsewhere.

 

[soporspelare]

Well there will always be outliers and exceptions to the rule, but I don't think for-profit schools in general are a bad idea. Private vs. public nor for-profit/non-profit don't necessarily deem a school "bad or "good;" it often comes down to funding from rich donors, alumni, and the like. How this money is allocated is a different matter, and I think this is where we need more laws outlining how much money actually goes towards students' education vs. what goes elsewhere.

The problem with for-profit schools is corner-cutting and exploitation being the norm, rather than the exception. There are inefficiencies and inadequacies present in nonprofit schools, but the fundamental difference is in who the school remains accountable to - I cannot see a legitimate reason as to why an institution of learning should be held accountable to investors who want to maximize their 5-year return, rather than ensure students actually get their money’s worth

 

[deleted1129181]

we need more laws outlining how much money actually goes towards students' education vs. what goes elsewhere.

Obamacare did this with health insurance companies and health insurance is still the biggest clusterfu*k in healthcare

 

[jhmmd]

You can’t really compare undergrad and med school. The vast majority of undergrad classes just require a room (physical or virtual), a professor, and a white board. Even for labs, the material costs aren’t considerable.

But for med school, almost every dollar goes back to the student in some shape or form. Maintaining a cadaver lab, maintaining rotations, having admin overhead, etc, costs MONEY.

And just like with any for-profit business, there will always be an incentive to cut corners. Admin will ask itself whether anatomy labs are necessary if virtual anatomy will do, or what’s the highest student:receptor ratio they can get away with.

Have you ever been to college? Books can cost upwards of $200/each. Sometimes more. Professors' salaries have to be paid. Ancillary staff have to be paid. The lights have to stay on. The school is obligated to fund student organizations, school sports, activities, etc. Scholarships and financial aid are given out--all from the same general pool of money.

You are approaching this from a very naive standpoint. Not sure if you're being argumentative on purpose but school gets more expensive the higher up you go. This is paid in dividends as students with bachelor's degrees make WAY more than students with just a high school diploma. You get what you pay for.

 

[jhmmd]

Obamacare did this with health insurance companies and health insurance is still the biggest clusterfu*k in healthcare

The primary purpose of Obamacare was to ensure that every American had access to healthcare. Not outlining how much money goes towards students' education vs. what goes elsewhere.

 

[deleted1129181]

Have you ever been to college? Books can cost upwards of $200/each. Sometimes more. Professors' salaries have to be paid. Ancillary staff have to be paid. The lights have to stay on. The school is obligated to fund student organizations, school sports, activities, etc. Scholarships and financial aid are given out--all from the same general pool of money.

You are approaching this from a very naive standpoint. Not sure if you're being argumentative on purpose but school gets more expensive the higher up you go. This is paid in dividends as students with bachelor's degrees make WAY more than students with just a high school diploma. You get what you pay for.

View attachment 350675

It’s clear that you didn’t even read what I wrote. I’m specifically referring to resources that undergrads have to provide to students. Undergrad colleges can cut corners without putting too much of a damper on student education. Most undergrad classes just boil down to a professor, a white board, and a physical or virtual space. Med schools, OTOH, have to provide plenty of tangible resources for a successful medical education. Not to mention that undergrad professors barely make money (unless they have tenure or are doing exceptional research) whereas clinical med school faculty make a lot more.

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

The Rise Fund Invests in The Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine and Idaho College of Osteopathic Medicine; Launches Center for Health Education and Access

SAN FRANCISCO & MERIDIAN, Idaho & LAS CRUCES, N.M.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb 22, 2022--

www.valdostadailytimes.com

From this morning, interesting and relevant.

Irrelevant but a look into their mindset:
"The Rise Funds’ commitment to providing accessible healthcare and innovative healthcare delivery models is expressed through investments in Evercare Group, the leading healthcare delivery group in emerging markets with 30 hospitals, 16 clinics, and 82 diagnostic centers across South Asia and Africa." Interesting to hear healthcare in a third world country called an "emerging market"

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Emerging market is just any market ex North America, Western Europe, and Asiapac (East asia such as China, Japan, South Korea)

 

[soporspelare]

The Rise Fund Invests in The Burrell College of Osteopathic Medicine and Idaho College of Osteopathic Medicine; Launches Center for Health Education and Access

SAN FRANCISCO & MERIDIAN, Idaho & LAS CRUCES, N.M.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Feb 22, 2022--

www.valdostadailytimes.com

From this morning, interesting and relevant.

Irrelevant but a look into their mindset:
"The Rise Funds’ commitment to providing accessible healthcare and innovative healthcare delivery models is expressed through investments in Evercare Group, the leading healthcare delivery group in emerging markets with 30 hospitals, 16 clinics, and 82 diagnostic centers across South Asia and Africa." Interesting to hear healthcare in a third world country called an "emerging market"

Speaking of ICOM:

I know reddit is not exactly scientific, but I found the firsthand experience quite damning.

 

[FootballAndSkiing]

Emerging market is just any market ex North America, Western Europe, and Asiapac (East asia such as China, Japan, South Korea)

Im aware, just seems like the wrong word choice in that context. But to investors I guess its an emerging market.

 

[chilly_md]

As a side note, from reading earlier posts here, I think remembering the lesson of intent vs impact would be good.

 

[soporspelare]

As a side note, from reading earlier posts here, I think remembering the lesson of intent vs impact would be good.

Intent: to profit off of desperate premeds
Impact: desperate premeds get taken advantage of

 

[chilly_md]

The message wasn't regarding CNU's behavior

 

[Med Ed]

Okay. Agree to disagree. I did not intend to call out anyone. I was attempting to point out that help was not forthcoming, even from the sympathetic. Nothing more, nothing less.

And, of course, I have no first hand knowledge of what happened 10 years ago at an unnamed school. My inference came from the reference to the flood of letters, with no reference to the assistance provided.

Depending on our respective desires for anonymity, some of us will not comment on specific actions made by our institutions.

 

[KnightDoc]

Depending on our respective desires for anonymity, some of us will not comment on specific actions made by our institutions.

I see, and I understand. Again, absolutely did not mean to call anyone out. To be fair, though, mentioning the letters without mentioning any action taken in response to them did lead to the inference I made, correctly or not.

 

[CG2150]

Oh my gosh. Who here who made comments are themselves physicians and who here that have commented have experience in state regulatory boards and in credentialing and licensing boards. I’d say little to none of you guys. Licensing new entities, whether it’s a new hospital or a new medical school has lots of regulatory tags associated with them. It’s a back and forth discussion between the entity being licensed (in this case Cal Northstate) and the regulatory board, in this case LCME and ACGME. Please don’t be an alarmist this school has a good reputation in putting out good solid students. Look at their match list. Look at their steps exams and benchmarks. They do well. It’s a fine solid medical school and they will work with the regulatory bodies to satisfy what they need to do to get their accreditation. Good luck to the students in the school. They are solid and will graduate to become physicians and will match highly at a residency program while doing it.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Oh my gosh. Who here who made comments are themselves physicians and who here that have commented have experience in state regulatory boards and in credentialing and licensing boards. I’d say little to none of you guys. Licensing new entities, whether it’s a new hospital or a new medical school has lots of regulatory tags associated with them. It’s a back and forth discussion between the entity being licensed (in this case Cal Northstate) and the regulatory board, in this case LCME and ACGME. Please don’t be an alarmist this school has a good reputation in putting out good solid students. Look at their match list. Look at their steps exams and benchmarks. They do well. It’s a fine solid medical school and they will work with the regulatory bodies to satisfy what they need to do to get their accreditation. Good luck to the students in the school. They are solid and will graduate to become physicians and will match highly at a residency program while doing it.

I counted at least 5 physicians in this thread

 

[jhmmd]

Update, straight from cnsu.com

Something else you might find relevant: Link

 

[jhmmd]

It’s clear that you didn’t even read what I wrote. I’m specifically referring to resources that undergrads have to provide to students. Undergrad colleges can cut corners without putting too much of a damper on student education. Most undergrad classes just boil down to a professor, a white board, and a physical or virtual space. Med schools, OTOH, have to provide plenty of tangible resources for a successful medical education. Not to mention that undergrad professors barely make money (unless they have tenure or are doing exceptional research) whereas clinical med school faculty make a lot more.

I did read what you wrote. I just don't agree that "most undergrad classes just boil down to a professor, a white board, and a physical or virtual space." This shows that you have no firsthand experience with college tuition fees--they are often broken down for you so that you can see what you are paying for. Hell, if that's all that it boiled down to, I could run college classes out of my bedroom cuz I have a white board and a room. LOL. I don't see how professors' salaries are relevant to this thread, though.

 

[KnightDoc]

Update, straight from cnsu.com
View attachment 350695
Something else you might find relevant: Link

Yes. Look carefully at the date. This is exactly what led to the news story posted above, because apparently the school did not disclose the outstanding accreditation issues to the council before the vote!

 

[jhmmd]

Yes. Look carefully at the date. This is exactly what led to the news story posted above, because apparently the school did not disclose the outstanding accreditation issues to the council before the vote!

I did see the date. I think that this medical center is a new development, however.

 

[KnightDoc]

I did see the date. I think that this medical center is a new development, however.

It's not. They were having issues with community opposition to their teaching hospital that was the subject of posts last year. This shiny new project was the solution to their problem.

The timing, though, is terrible, because they went before the council after accreditation was denied and before their appeal was heard. It looks like they might not have disclosed what is going on before the vote, which will, if true, only create more legal problems for them. Just go back and look at the video embedded in the news clip in Post #159 of this thread!

 

[jhmmd]

It's not. They were having issues with community opposition to their teaching hospital that was the subject of posts last year. This shiny new project was the solution to their problem.

The timing, though, is terrible, because they went before the council after accreditation was denied and before their appeal was heard, and it looks like they might not have disclosed what is going on before the vote, which will, if true, only create more legal problems for them. Just go back and look at the video embedded in the news clip in Post #159 of this thread!

Their website also says that they have a 98% match rate
What do you mean, "They might not have disclosed what is going on?"

 

[KnightDoc]

Their website also says that they have a 98% match rate
What do you mean, "They might not have disclosed what is going on?"

According to the CBS Sacramento news story, the school declined to tell CBS13 whether they revealed the failure to receive full accreditation to the council before the vote. What do you think that means? It's a 3 minute clip. You should watch it.

 

[jhmmd]

According to the CBS Sacramento news story, the school declined to tell CBS13 whether they revealed the failure to receive full accreditation to the council before the vote. What do you think that means? It's a 3 minute clip. You should watch it.

How did the council not know about this already? And why does it matter what CNSU tells a particular news station? This sounds like a big brouhaha over nothing. I understand that new campus =/= accreditation. However, it really does seem like CNSU is meeting most benchmarks. There will always be a disgruntled med student or two throwing shade.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

The YouTube video kept mentioning the kings, so I don’t know if the NBA team is somehow involved too

 

[jhmmd]

The YouTube video kept mentioning the kings, so I don’t know if the NBA team is somehow involved too

Oh snap

 

[KnightDoc]

How did the council not know about this already? And why does it matter what CNSU tells a particular news station? This sounds like a big brouhaha over nothing. I understand that new campus =/= accreditation. However, it really does seem like CNSU is meeting most benchmarks. There will always be a disgruntled med student or two throwing shade.

Maybe. But, if you've ever followed local politics, there is usually some opposition to everything. If they did not reveal that the anchor to a big new redevelopment project might not have the necessary regulatory approval to ever be operational, that might be something a government body would find material before voting on approving the project.

I don't know. I'm not there, but the local CBS affiliate seemed pretty breathless in reporting it. They got all the facts rights, and even gave a shout out to SDN. If the council is not plugged into SDN and CNU did not disclose, how would they know?

It's not like it's posted on a LCME website. And, even if it were, why would local politicians be expected to perform that level of due diligence when, surely, CNU would be obligated to disclose material facts surrounding their ability to fulfill their obligations under whatever contracts they would be signing, like, maybe their ability to run the school attached to the new teaching hospital at the center of the project?

Of course new campus = accreditation, because without accreditation there cannot be a new campus!

I'm no expert here, and I'm aware of disgruntled people throwing shade. But, judging by the reaction of the adcoms here, being denied full accreditation based on a LCME determination that they were deemed "not satifactory" in ALL areas is an unprecedented BFD. Whether they will be allowed to come back from this remains TBD, but I don't see anyone on SDN who knows how these things go saying there is nothing to see here.

Just go back to Post #35 in this thread, when the accreditation thing was first discussed, and pay attention to the adcoms' comments. No one knows what will happen, but they all seem to be taking it very seriously, and no one seems to be taking for granted that the school will definitely survive, given the LCME precedent in pulling SJB's accreditation. Basically, it has happened before, and this outlier for-profit would be a candidate for it to happen again.

Also, SDN staff published an article about this, linked in Post #52 above.

 

[jhmmd]

Maybe. But, if you've ever followed local politics, there is usually some opposition to everything. If they did not reveal that the anchor to a big new redevelopment project might not have the necessary regulatory approval to ever be operational, that might be something a government body would find material before voting on approving the project.

I don't know. I'm not there, but the local CBS affiliate seemed pretty breathless in reporting it. They got all the facts rights, and even gave a shout out to SDN. If the council is not plugged into SDN and CNU did not disclose, how would they know?

It's not like it's posted on a LCME website. And, even if it were, why would local politicians be expected to perform that level of due diligence when, surely, CNU would be obligated to disclose material facts surrounding their ability to fulfill their obligations under whatever contracts they would be signing, like, maybe their ability to run the school attached to the new teaching hospital at the center of the project?

Of course new campus = accreditation, because without accreditation there cannot be a new campus!

I'm no expert here, and I'm aware of disgruntled people throwing shade. But, judging by the reaction of the adcoms here, being denied full accreditation based on a LCME determination that they were deemed "not satifactory" in ALL areas is an unprecedented BFD. Whether they will be allowed to come back from this remains TBD, but I don't see anyone on SDN who knows how these things go saying there is nothing to see here.

Just go back to Post #35 in this thread, when the accreditation thing was first discussed, and pay attention to the adcoms' comments. No one knows what will happen, but they all seem to be taking it very seriously, and no one seems to be taking for granted that the school will definitely survive, given the LCME precedent in pulling SJB's accreditation. Basically, it has happened before, and this outlier for-profit would be a candidate for it to happen again.

Ok then
I think a lot of the people on this site have a vested interest in CNSU because there is a DIRE shortage of medical school seats in California. The UCs have been trying to expand for decades with various regulatory issues. CNSU went out on a whim, maybe a little too bullheaded, but they have tried. I don't see the problem in advocating for more medical school seats. We need more doctors, and more residency slots. Everyone knows that there is a physician shortage due to the aging population.

 

[KnightDoc]

Ok then
I think a lot of the people on this site have a vested interest in CNSU because there is a DIRE shortage of medical school seats in California. The UCs have been trying to expand for decades with various regulatory issues. CNSU went out on a whim, maybe a little too bullheaded, but they have tried. I don't see the problem in advocating for more medical school seats. We need more doctors, and more residency slots. Everyone knows that there is a physician shortage due to the aging population.

No doubt. You are 1,000,000% correct.

The issue is with the people behind the school, the for-profit business model, the disregard for diversity in recruiting and enrollment, the lack of availability of federal loans, financial aid, etc., etc., etc. These were concerns from Day One, but they received preliminary and then provisional accreditation, and then went to town, apparently remaining focused on everything but addressing LCME concerns. And now here they are, deficient in not one, not two, but ALL areas, and not being placed on probation, but being flat out denied, which is apparently unprecedented, other than in the SJB case.

As a result, no one seems to know how an appeal will go, since no one has seen this before, other than with SJB, where there was no public disclosure until the very end, after whatever appeal was heard, when the accreditation was indeed pulled. So all the experts know is that it's happened before, and LCME apparently did not consider impact on current students in carrying out its mission.

So, I guess we need to stay tuned, because we have no idea whether LCME wants to work with management to fix this, or whether they are disgusted and want to use this as an opportunity to drive these guys out of the medical school business. It's clear that all involved want to see more medical school seats, particularly in CA, but apparently not at a cost of "anything goes."

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Is there a physician shortage in CA though? I thought that coastal doctors tend to make much less due to the fact that there is a surplus in these areas.

 

[ToliBro]

There is less of a physician shortage than a residency slot shortage. I've worked with a lot of excellent FMGs and there's plenty more all but beating down the door every year. If I had a genie and I said "increase the number of USMD slots by 50%" there would be little change in the number of practicing physicians in the US. If I said "increase the number of residency slots by 50%" that would be a very different story.

CNU's fate is sealed, IMO. They failed broadly across all areas, not narrowly. An argument could be made that remediation in one or two areas would solve accreditation woes. A failure in every one of the 12 areas means any sort of solution is the sort that involves figurative matches and gasoline at best.

 

[deleted555445]

The YouTube video kept mentioning the kings, so I don’t know if the NBA team is somehow involved too

The Kings are involved because the new site of their medical center is the Kings former stadium, I'm guessing they must own the stadium or something because apparently they had to sign off on the medical school building there

 

[chilly_md]

There are a great deal of MD schools in California as well as 2 established DO schools filled with a good number of IS students who don’t want to leave the state. The OOS students are probably also interested in sticking around and then there’s the many residents across the country who want to try to get into California for their first job. There are particular areas or regions that aren’t as popular to most new physicians, but schools such as UC Davis and UC Riverside try to train students who would be.

 

[jhmmd]

Is there a physician shortage in CA though? I thought that coastal doctors tend to make much less due to the fact that there is a surplus in these areas.

It depends on the area