Being forced to work more due to a divorce

[Tipsy McStagger]

Watch this and and you might be singing a different tune on marriage. Beware.

This guy’s whole channel is fascinating.

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[Tipsy McStagger]

As someone who is not very pro marriage:

-ability to get health insurance if one partner goes 1099 or cannot work

-maybe cleaner estate planning

-cleaner laws regarding assets: for instance I think I'd rather have a prenup and have my house ownership governed under that rather than some weird amalgamation of real estate and civil law if I were to co-own a house w an unmarried partner

-more well defined paternity laws?

Yeah, I mean a well written last will and testament and medical power of attorney along with an advanced directive would solve all of those aside from the health insurance issue.

If it comes down to health insurance I think that’s more of an indictment on the medical system than marriage in general.

But I appreciate your points, they’re worth mulling over.

 

[emergentmd]

1) what kids activities are 100k/year lol

2) why can't the SAHM go out and get a job? The penalty for divorce, as you say.

1. My 3 kids go to private school and all 3 are in club sports which hits about 100K all together

2. All divorces are different. I am coming from a place where the wife gave up their career to help care for the kids/household and the doc goes to work. I make 4-5x what my wife made as a nurse and it was better financially/family unit for her to stay home which she enjoys. Works for us. We have been married 22 yrs, she quit 15 yrs ago when our first was born. If we divorced tomorrow, and I am making 300K take home, I think it is completely fair for me to pay for the kids 100K activities, send my wife 75-100K, I keep 100-125K. Seem fair, we share custody but likely kids would be with her more. If she wants a nicer lifestyle, she can go back to nursing. If I want a nicer lifesytle, I will work more shifts. I think I get a better deal from this divorce b/c one shift a month would be an extra 25K/yr in my pocket. If she worked one shift a month, it would be like 7K/yr

I am all fairness and I would never tell her, screw you and I will just take care of the kids expenses and you are on your own while I keep 200K and she gets nothing. She has sacrificed much more than I have quitting her job.

Now, this obviously does not work for all divorces. If a wife makes a similar living, then both should share kiddie expenses. If you were married one year, then of course she should get little. If there are no kids, then the equation changes.

But to say that once you divorce, the wife needs to get a job seems silly especially when she has sacrificed her life for the betterment of the family and her skills after 10+ yrs are not marketable.

I have seen divorces where the breadwinner tries to take everything and no wonder why the spouse lawyers up. If both parties are reasonable, things will work out for the best but there is too much winning at all costs and misdirected emotions that leads to both sides getting screwed.

 

[emergentmd]

Lol… there seem to be plenty of men who are getting alimony from their physician wives ( at least on the physician community fb page).

Exactly. If I quit my job to be a stay at home father for 10+ yrs then after a divorce my doc wife tells me to get a job and put the kids in public school while sending me 2k/month for child care would be ridiculous.

People who go through divorces become irrational and put their feelings above the kids which just creates more friction. If I were the doc, I would rather get the short end of the financial stick to keep peace in the divorced family and suck it up working an extra shift a month.

 

[sloh]

Lol… there seem to be plenty of men who are getting alimony from their physician wives ( at least on the physician community fb page).

Haha this reminds me of an interview with a really popular divorce lawyer, Laura Wasser.

"You said you represented the man in that case. Is there a percentage-wise way that you skew?

Before I started being the primary rainmaker at this firm, we probably represented more men. Right now I’d say it’s almost even. We represent the breadwinner, almost always. And a lot of the time that breadwinner is the woman. So we represent the money most of the time.

Why is that?

I don’t know. Sometimes they will both call, and we’ll be, like, let’s take the money. I think we get a lot of referrals from business managers, and entertainment attorneys, and agents—they jump on it quick because they’re covering their client, and so they want to lock us in.


So a change you’ve seen that over the past twenty-five years is that women have turned into—

And, let me tell you, a lot of them are like, Wait, what? I have to pay spousal support? This guy’s been sitting on the couch for twenty years, never doing anything, we were both stars in business school, he decided he wanted to write a script, I’m killing it out here and I’m also going to have to write a child support check, and I have to split everything I made, my I.R.A., my 401(k), with this guy who’s in boxers at three o’clock in the afternoon? I said, Well, of course. If the genders were reversed, you wouldn’t think it was weird at all."

 

[hundreddaysoff]

I’ll ask a question. What exactly is the point of marriage anyway? What benefit does it offer in this day and age?

All the women I dated who were interested in mothering insisted that I put a ring on it if we were to raise children together.

It's also an OK tax break.

That's really it for me. Going OK so far. Right, wrong? Who really knows anymore.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

There's a lot of magical thinking going on here about the realities of returning to the workforce, career trajectory, and retirement planning after staying home with the kids for several years.

How many of you would be champing at the bit to offer a job to a physician 7 years out of clinical practice? How about a nurse who hasn't touched a patient in 6 years, an accountant who hasn't dealt with the 2018 tax code, or a programmer who last committed code in 2015? Even if that person gets a job, they've given up years of promotions, raises, and just general career growth and opportunities.

There's a lot to complain about alimony--and there are some real horror stories out there (even in this thread)--but the concept of alimony for a stay-at-home parent of several years shouldn't be controversial.

 

[RustedFox]

There's a lot of magical thinking going on here about the realities of returning to the workforce, career trajectory, and retirement planning after staying home with the kids for several years.

How many of you would be champing at the bit to offer a job to a physician 7 years out of clinical practice? How about a nurse who hasn't touched a patient in 6 years, an accountant who hasn't dealt with the 2018 tax code, or a programmer who last committed code in 2015? Even if that person gets a job, they've given up years of promotions, raises, and just general career growth and opportunities.

There's a lot to complain about alimony--and there are some real horror stories out there (even in this thread)--but the concept of alimony for a stay-at-home parent of several years shouldn't be controversial.

Oh, I see.
They can work, but they don't want to work.... because they didn't have to work.
Now, divorce is imminent, and they recognize how good they had it?!
Well, isn't that too bad, then.
I have to work. Now you have to, as well.
Equity.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Oh, I see.
They can work, but they don't want to work.... because they didn't have to work.
Now, divorce is imminent, and they recognize how good they had it?!
Well, isn't that too bad, then.
I have to work. Now you have to, as well.
Equity.

Who's saying they shouldn't work? Read my post again--I certainly didn't.

Yes, people should strive for self-sufficiency, which includes work. As someone who cares about work and career, you should recognize that a stay-at-home-parent doesn't just put their job on a magical pause which allows them to return to it with no career/financial repercussions. Those were years of retirement contributions, pay raises, promotions, professional education, networking, and other opportunities that they can never get back. The working spouse didn't have to take a hit to their career to raise the kids. Alimony or some form of support is a way to get that equity/equality/fairness that you claim you want.

 

[RustedFox]

Who's saying they shouldn't work? Read my post again--I certainly didn't.

Yes, people should strive for self-sufficiency, which includes work. As someone who cares about work and career, you should recognize that a stay-at-home-parent doesn't just put their job on a magical pause which allows them to return to it with no career/financial repercussions. Those were years of retirement contributions, pay raises, promotions, professional education, networking, and other opportunities that they can never get back. The working spouse didn't have to take a hit to their career to raise the kids. Alimony is a way to get that equity/equality/fairness that you claim you want.

Almost like those years of contributions were paid in the form of... "not having to work while all the expenses are paid."

I'm all for a "get-back-on-your-feet" period of alimony. That makes sense.
But the whole "years to life" terms generally discourage the non working spouse from... you know... independence.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

Almost like those years of contributions were paid in the form of... "not having to work while all the expenses are paid."

But room and board isn't the only think you get out of your career. You get experience, seniority, and the work history on your CV to allow you to jump to a better job.

If you married a Moh's Surgeon and the two of you decided you would stay home with the kids for 6 years, what do you think your EM job prospects would be like when you went back to work? Say you go through a physician re-entry program and start your new attending job, are you objectively in the same place in your career as if you had been working for those 6 years?

If you're married and you've taken the decision that one of you will stay home with the kids, it may not be "we're going to put your job on pause for x years so you can raise the kids" but rather "we're going to throw a huge wrench into your career so you can raise the kids for x years". I think that's something that gets lost in these conversations of "she got a roof over her head and free food, what's the big deal?".

 

[sloh]

There's a lot of magical thinking going on here about the realities of returning to the workforce, career trajectory, and retirement planning after staying home with the kids for several years.

How many of you would be champing at the bit to offer a job to a physician 7 years out of clinical practice? How about a nurse who hasn't touched a patient in 6 years, an accountant who hasn't dealt with the 2018 tax code, or a programmer who last committed code in 2015? Even if that person gets a job, they've given up years of promotions, raises, and just general career growth and opportunities.

There's a lot to complain about alimony--and there are some real horror stories out there (even in this thread)--but the concept of alimony for a stay-at-home parent of several years shouldn't be controversial.

Nip the issue in the bud and encourage the woman to work part-time. Best of both worlds. Staying 24/7 at home with a petulant infant would drive many women crazy, especially if they are intelligent

 

[RustedFox]

But room and board isn't the only think you get out of your career. You get experience, seniority, and the work history on your CV to allow you to jump to a better job.

If you married a Moh's Surgeon and the two of you decided you would stay home with the kids for 6 years, what do you think your EM job prospects would be like when you went back to work? Say you go through a physician re-entry program and start your new attending job, are you objectively in the same place in your career as if you had been working for those 6 years?

If you're married and you've taken the decision that one of you will stay home with the kids, it may not be "we're going to put your job on pause for x years so you can raise the kids" but rather "we're going to throw a huge wrench into your career so you can raise the kids for x years". I think that's something that gets lost in these conversations of "she got a roof over her head and free food, what's the big deal?".

Room. Board. Taxes. Insurances. A planned, shard retirement. Generally all the niceties too like a new car, new whatever, etc.

Mea culpa. Kids.
In a world in which both spouses work so commonly, it seems to me (a childfree person) that the social bargain isn't as complex.

Like I said; I'm all for a get-back-on-your-feet arrangement, but not the long-term-to-permanent vacation sentence that seems far, far too common.

 

[Splenda88]

Who's saying they shouldn't work? Read my post again--I certainly didn't.

Yes, people should strive for self-sufficiency, which includes work. As someone who cares about work and career, you should recognize that a stay-at-home-parent doesn't just put their job on a magical pause which allows them to return to it with no career/financial repercussions. Those were years of retirement contributions, pay raises, promotions, professional education, networking, and other opportunities that they can never get back. The working spouse didn't have to take a hit to their career to raise the kids. Alimony or some form of support is a way to get that equity/equality/fairness that you claim you want.

So they should be entitled to collect alimony for the rest of their life. We can agree that 2-3 yrs alimony is a good middle ground, but people should not support another able body to the rest of his/her life.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Also the spouse that stayed home often demands to be the primary custodian

 

[rokshana]

Oh, I see.
They can work, but they don't want to work.... because they didn't have to work.
Now, divorce is imminent, and they recognize how good they had it?!
Well, isn't that too bad, then.
I have to work. Now you have to, as well.
Equity.

Problem your premise is that a sahm is lying on the couch, eating bonbons…
The couple that decides that a spouse is staying home to take care of the house and the kids IS doing a full time job… and then some….and if they have done that for 10-15 years+…their work needs to be taken into consideration.
And let’s face it… the work is never equally divided…in general, the female physician is taking on the bulk of the child rearing and housekeeping over the male physician in the couple…things are changing… but not that much.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Problem your premise is that a sahm is lying on the couch, eating bonbons…
The couple that decides that a spouse is staying home to take care of the house and the kids IS doing a full time job… and then some….and if they have done that for 10-15 years+…their work needs to be taken into consideration.
And let’s face it… the work is never equally divided…in general, the female physician is taking on the bulk of the child rearing and housekeeping over the male physician in the couple…things are changing… but not that much.

That is true rarely do men do the same amount of work when it comes to the kids and the household chores. However I don't see why the earning spouse has to work more to make the same standard of living

 

[RustedFox]

Problem your premise is that a sahm is lying on the couch, eating bonbons…
The couple that decides that a spouse is staying home to take care of the house and the kids IS doing a full time job… and then some….and if they have done that for 10-15 years+…their work needs to be taken into consideration.
And let’s face it… the work is never equally divided…in general, the female physician is taking on the bulk of the child rearing and housekeeping over the male physician in the couple…things are changing… but not that much.

The situation that you described (lying on couch, bonbons) is far more common than you think.
Come to Florida.
That Led Zeppelin lyric rings freaking TRUE.

al-i-mo-ny, al-i-mo-ny, paying YOUR bills
(livin', lovin'... she's just a WO-man)
When your con-science hits, you knock it back with pills.
(livin', lovin'... she's just a WO-man)

It's not the reality that I live, but I see it everywhere. Xanax'd up mommies on 3+ SSRI/SSNIs who simply don't -want- to do anything besides complain about how hard they have it...

If you're a mom, you're a mom. I get it. Mom-ing is work, but its' not 75-100K per year tax-free work (and Dad pays the taxes before the money goes away). But the only reason a mom can even be a mom is because there's a DAD out there earning so mom doesn't have to. Think about that, moms. Maybe appreciate what you have.

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

It's not the reality that I live, but I see it everywhere. Xanax'd up mommies on 3+ SSRI/SSNIs who simply don't -want- to do anything besides complain about how hard they have it...

Let me link you to a page that if read without any context (and a healthy dose of pre-existing biases) would come across as a bunch of people, many likely medicating and self-medicating, who also seem to do nothing but complain about how hard they have it: Emergency Medicine

If you're a mom, you're a mom. I get it. Mom-ing is work, but its' not 75-100K per year tax-free work (and Dad pays the taxes before the money goes away). But the only reason a mom can even be a mom is because there's a DAD out there earning so mom doesn't have to. Think about that, moms. Maybe appreciate what you have.

That kinda goes both ways, no? The only reason that Dad can go work the overnight shift, the swing shift, the weekend shift, the holiday shift, and every other shift out there is because Mom is replacing the need to have a coterie of baby sitters on retainer. Do they also need to appreciate what they have?

On the topic of "Mom-ing" not being worth $75-100k/yr, this seems like a misguided train of thought to me as it's either completely tautological or fully subjective.

How much is your job worth, Fox? ~$350k a year? Why? Because you and your employer have a legal contract saying so? Well, I think some people in this forum can show you some legal contracts (divorce agreements, child support, and alimony payments) showing that motherhood may well be worth more than $75-100k a year.

Ok, maybe that's the wrong way to think about it, then. We need to think about some objective, intrinsic value for work. Does such a thing exist? Is the RUC really it? Is your job intrinsically 4-7 times more difficult and hazardous than a coal miner's, for example? If you hopped on a plane and went to a public hospital in NYC, would the intrinsic difficulty of your job have decreased by half to account for the pay change?

Anyways, you'll have to forgive me for not giving you the title of final arbiter for the monetary value of stay-at-home mothers.

 

[rokshana]

The situation that you described (lying on couch, bonbons) is far more common than you think.
Come to Florida.
That Led Zeppelin lyric rings freaking TRUE.

al-i-mo-ny, al-i-mo-ny, paying YOUR bills
(livin', lovin'... she's just a WO-man)
When your con-science hits, you knock it back with pills.
(livin', lovin'... she's just a WO-man)

It's not the reality that I live, but I see it everywhere. Xanax'd up mommies on 3+ SSRI/SSNIs who simply don't -want- to do anything besides complain about how hard they have it...

If you're a mom, you're a mom. I get it. Mom-ing is work, but its' not 75-100K per year tax-free work (and Dad pays the taxes before the money goes away). But the only reason a mom can even be a mom is because there's a DAD out there earning so mom doesn't have to. Think about that, moms. Maybe appreciate what you have.

Lol… the only reason a dad is a dad that can be around his kids is because of a mom… though I guess they can go the surrogate route …a woman can be a mom without the sperm donor really staying involved… no surrogate needed.

And apparently the salary would be $184k/yr

If SAHMs were paid, their salary would be $184K/year

According to the latest data from salary.com.

www.mother.ly

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

That’s true. If you have kids and your wife stay at home, you’re able to make more money and focus on your career rather than take care of them when they’re sick.

Also, don’t have to hire any babysitter and some stay at home mom‘s homeschool their children

 

[throway134]

The situation that you described (lying on couch, bonbons) is far more common than you think.
Come to Florida.
That Led Zeppelin lyric rings freaking TRUE.

al-i-mo-ny, al-i-mo-ny, paying YOUR bills
(livin', lovin'... she's just a WO-man)
When your con-science hits, you knock it back with pills.
(livin', lovin'... she's just a WO-man)

It's not the reality that I live, but I see it everywhere. Xanax'd up mommies on 3+ SSRI/SSNIs who simply don't -want- to do anything besides complain about how hard they have it...

If you're a mom, you're a mom. I get it. Mom-ing is work, but its' not 75-100K per year tax-free work (and Dad pays the taxes before the money goes away). But the only reason a mom can even be a mom is because there's a DAD out there earning so mom doesn't have to. Think about that, moms. Maybe appreciate what you have.

Fox, not trying to be a d*ck but fairly confident you don’t have children.

From a pure work standpoint, if you asked me to choose between an intern year and caring full time for one toddler for a year I’d take the intern year as a slam dunk for less work.

It’s worth it because the little bastard is mine, but it’s a lot of time and effort.

Also regarding the salary question: I pay about $20,000 per child per year for daycare (it’s not even the full time fee) for 8 hrs a day. If you tried to hire a nanny, it’s more than that for the same time. I do not live in a high col area.

Now picture the salary for a full time nights weekends and holidays 24/7 nanny, and the answer is actually probably about 75-100k. That’s what you would be charged for that service. Especially if you also expect the nanny to cook the child’s meals and do their laundry.

Things do get a lot easier as the kids get older, but it’s still not covering the opportunity cost which is substantial.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

Fox, not trying to be a d*ck but fairly confident you don’t have children.

From a pure work standpoint, if you asked me to choose between an intern year and caring full time for one toddler for a year I’d take the intern year as a slam dunk for less work.

It’s worth it because the little bastard is mine, but it’s a lot of time and effort.

Also regarding the salary question: I pay about $20,000 per child per year for daycare (it’s not even the full time fee) for 8 hrs a day. If you tried to hire a nanny, it’s more than that for the same time. I do not live in a high col area.

Now picture the salary for a full time nights weekends and holidays 24/7 nanny, and the answer is actually probably about 75-100k. That’s what you would be charged for that service. Especially if you also expect the nanny to cook the child’s meals and do their laundry.

Things do get a lot easier as the kids get older, but it’s still not covering the opportunity cost which is substantial.

Do you guys not help with the kids or cook when you get home? Why would you equate it to a 24/7 jobs?

 

[throway134]

Do you guys not help with the kids or cook when you get home? Why would you equate it to a 24/7 jobs?

Realistically it’s probably more like 14-16h/7d.

I do help. My wife is also not a sahm, she works part time.

I can also realistically assess that if my wife died I’d need to pay someone about 40- 50k to cover the amount of work my wife does when I’m not there. With benefits it would easily come to 75k. If she did the mom thing full time I think it would cost more to replace the work she did.

 

[RustedFox]

Fox, not trying to be a d*ck but fairly confident you don’t have children.

From a pure work standpoint, if you asked me to choose between an intern year and caring full time for one toddler for a year I’d take the intern year as a slam dunk for less work.

It’s worth it because the little bastard is mine, but it’s a lot of time and effort.

Also regarding the salary question: I pay about $20,000 per child per year for daycare (it’s not even the full time fee) for 8 hrs a day. If you tried to hire a nanny, it’s more than that for the same time. I do not live in a high col area.

Now picture the salary for a full time nights weekends and holidays 24/7 nanny, and the answer is actually probably about 75-100k. That’s what you would be charged for that service. Especially if you also expect the nanny to cook the child’s meals and do their laundry.

Things do get a lot easier as the kids get older, but it’s still not covering the opportunity cost which is substantial.

1. Absolutely don't have kids.
2. Have several buddies down here that are stuck in the above-described alimony hell.
3. Neither me, nor anyone else is buying any article or opinion that being a SAMH is earning 150k+ a year. Think that one thru.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

1. Absolutely don't have kids.
2. Have several buddies down here that are stuck in the above-described alimony hell.
3. Neither me, nor anyone else is buying any article or opinion that being a SAMH is earning 150k+ a year. Think that one thru.

Maybe if you're living in a high COL place where nannies/child care cost more than most places...

I think the 60-80k range is more realistic.

My kids are in private school that we do because it offers afterschool child care since my wife and I are both full-time doctors.

Its around 45k/year for the two of them including the afterschool care.

We pay around 6k/year for a once/week cleaning service.

We're lucky in that my mother can watch the kids on short holidays/sick days. If we had to use a nanny/babysitter for Xmas holidays, we're likely another 2k or so.

The kids do various day camps all summer which come to around 6k for both.

We use Instacart for grocery deliveries on days when we don't have time to go. I'd bet the extra cost/fees run a few grand per year.

This gets us in the mid 60s for cost.

 

[throway134]

1. Absolutely don't have kids.
2. Have several buddies down here that are stuck in the above-described alimony hell.
3. Neither me, nor anyone else is buying any article or opinion that being a SAMH is earning 150k+ a year. Think that one thru.

100% agree 150k is absurd, probably even in ca or ny.

I think if you’re paying for daycare +after school 50k straight up makes sense.

If you pay for it in-home (which is equivalent for a sahm) you’ll also be paying the employer half of tax and benefits, which will take you to 75-100k depending where you live.

To be clear, I think that’s mostly reasonable for pre-grade school only. School age kids take way less attention/time (because of school) and therefore money

Especially if you’re a public school pleb like me and mine.

Giving up 3-5 years of career progression and retirement savings is still a lot to compensate for, and it’s reasonable to expect additional money for it in my mind.

Also not forever though

 

[Splenda88]

Lol… the only reason a dad is a dad that can be around his kids is because of a mom… though I guess they can go the surrogate route …a woman can be a mom without the sperm donor really staying involved… no surrogate needed.

And apparently the salary would be $184k/yr

If SAHMs were paid, their salary would be $184K/year

According to the latest data from salary.com.

www.mother.ly

This is a bunch feminist hogwash.

There are SAHM with partners that do not even make 100k/yr

 

[CoolDoc1729]

This is a bunch feminist hogwash.

There are SAHM with partners that do not even make 100k/yr

Like most of them… the average household income is around $50k a year ?

This “184k” line of reasoning is bizarre to me as a mom of 4 tbh

 

[addoncase]

Does this mean you shouldn’t freq treat your wife to nice things incase you divorce and she claims she had a “certain lifestyle”

 

[Franzd'Epinay]

This is a bunch feminist hogwash.

There are SAHM with partners that do not even make 100k/yr

Like most of them… the average household income is around $50k a year ?

This “184k” line of reasoning is bizarre to me as a mom of 4 tbh

The source of that article seems to come to the figure by tallying up work hours and multiplying that by an hourly rate (including overtime, I believe).

I can't say I fully agree with their methodology, but if you go by their reasoning, the husband's salary doesn't factor into the calculation.

 

[addoncase]

Any of you all have resources to improve
Your communication skills w the wife…I’m generally a Queit person and it being labeled as I don’t talk enough I don’t communicate enough ….

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Any of you all have resources to improve
Your communication skills w the wife…I’m generally a Queit person and it being labeled as I don’t talk enough I don’t communicate enough ….

Sometimes it doesn’t matter. If somebody loses interest, no amount of communication will fix it

 

[CoolDoc1729]

Any of you all have resources to improve
Your communication skills w the wife…I’m generally a Queit person and it being labeled as I don’t talk enough I don’t communicate enough ….

You were a quiet person when you married her , right ? And she said yes… What’s different now?

Kids taking up your time and your energy?

Burnout from work?

Is she spending less time with family/friends/coworkers and looking for you to make up the difference?

Etc

The solution depends on what the actual problem is 😉

 

[addoncase]

You were a quiet person when you married her , right ? And she said yes… What’s different now?

Kids taking up your time and your energy?

Burnout from work?

Is she spending less time with family/friends/coworkers and looking for you to make up the difference?

Etc

The solution depends on what the actual problem is 😉

I would like to know what’s different know myself, but when discussed I don’t seem to get an answer. I get blamed a lot saying I don’t communicate but I say it’s not just me it’s both of us,
How can you solely blame one person in a two person relationship idk. She says it’s all me. In general she has always been a lot more chatty her work involves her talking a lot holding meetings

Yes I was quiet before marriage too, no kids and don’t feel burnout life is better as an attending than a resident for sure. If anything she is spending more time w family we moved to be much closer to her family and friends. She sees them much more than ever before esp over the 6months

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I would like to know what’s different know myself, but when discussed I don’t seem to get an answer. I get blamed a lot saying I don’t communicate but I say it’s not just me it’s both of us,
How can you solely blame one person in a two person relationship idk. She says it’s all me. In general she has always been a lot more chatty her work involves her talking a lot holding meetings

Yes I was quiet before marriage too, no kids and don’t feel burnout life is better as an attending than a resident for sure. If anything she is spending more time w family we moved to be much closer to her family and friends. She sees them much more than ever before esp over the 6months

Many warning signs. I’d get out before having kids. Plus, if it’s within a certain period, pretty sure no alimony

 

[addoncase]

Many warning signs. I’d get out before having kids. Plus, if it’s within a certain period, pretty sure no alimony

Idk is this normal? I can’t tell I don’t really discuss my problems with anyone like other guys and I don’t have any siblings to talk to about this. I know it’s not all roses, things seem to go well mostly recently since we moved closer but there are still moments where I feel like I can’t do anything right.
I guess our “love language” is different

i was thinking couples counseling idk

 

[Iamnew2]

This is when I leave the country. Or just stop working and move into Mom's basement. Can't garnish wages that don't exist.

Actually if you leave the country child support still has to be paid - it is an international thing. If you stop working, you will still have to pay unfortunately as it would be viewed as intentionally reducing your income. If you get fired that's a different story.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

Do you guys not help with the kids or cook when you get home? Why would you equate it to a 24/7 jobs?

It’s not really helping it’s just doing your part however, the mother always does more. Cooking on my off days is different than cooking every single day.

I would like to know what’s different know myself, but when discussed I don’t seem to get an answer. I get blamed a lot saying I don’t communicate but I say it’s not just me it’s both of us,
How can you solely blame one person in a two person relationship idk. She says it’s all me. In general she has always been a lot more chatty her work involves her talking a lot holding meetings

Yes I was quiet before marriage too, no kids and don’t feel burnout life is better as an attending than a resident for sure. If anything she is spending more time w family we moved to be much closer to her family and friends. She sees them much more than ever before esp over the 6months

What does your wife do? What is her salary?

Also you are able to be home more EM is lifestyle friendly for couples with no kids.

Kids make everything harder you need to see what plans she has.

Does she want children? How many? Does she want to work after children?

 

[addoncase]

It’s not really helping it’s just doing your part however, the mother always does more. Cooking on my off days is different than cooking every single day.


What does your wife do? What is her salary?

Also you are able to be home more EM is lifestyle friendly for couples with no kids.

Kids make everything harder you need to see what plans she has.

Does she want children? How many? Does she want to work after children?

She works from home earns around 175K

Yes I know kids complicate things we got a puppy recently and it was hard early on but it’s better now

Yes she wants children at least one, she has a cush job and wants to keep working even with kids

 

[ScepticSkeksis]

Actually if you leave the country child support still has to be paid - it is an international thing. If you stop working, you will still have to pay unfortunately as it would be viewed as intentionally reducing your income. If you get fired that's a different story.

That's true, however in the case of just Alimony, it would be very hard for them to collect from you if you live in another country with a foreign bank account. Depending on how much the non-working spouse demands, it might be worth it to move. Also since it's a civil issue, you don't face arrest on returning to the U.S. as you might with child support.

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

She works from home earns around 175K

Yes I know kids complicate things we got a puppy recently and it was hard early on but it’s better now

Yes she wants children at least one, she has a cush job and wants to keep working even with kids

If a puppy was "hard" for her, I can't imagine what a child will do.

Not gonna analyze your marriage based off a few posts, just offer what I perceive to be wisdom based off my experience:

I wish I paid attention to and acted on what turned out to be significant red flags with my ex wife before we were married. Your "gut" is a hind brain instinct that has evolved over millennia to prevent you from getting fuxxored. Do not intellectualize away what your gut tells you.

 

[anonperson]

I would like to know what’s different know myself, but when discussed I don’t seem to get an answer. I get blamed a lot saying I don’t communicate but I say it’s not just me it’s both of us,
How can you solely blame one person in a two person relationship idk. She says it’s all me. In general she has always been a lot more chatty her work involves her talking a lot holding meetings

Yes I was quiet before marriage too, no kids and don’t feel burnout life is better as an attending than a resident for sure. If anything she is spending more time w family we moved to be much closer to her family and friends. She sees them much more than ever before esp over the 6months

Bad signs all around.

Don't have any kids or you will really be $crewed

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

She works from home earns around 175K

Yes I know kids complicate things we got a puppy recently and it was hard early on but it’s better now

Yes she wants children at least one, she has a cush job and wants to keep working even with kids

Do you want kids? Do you have a deep desire for being a parent?

How is money used in the relationship? Are the bills split is one person a spender and the other a saver

How are her thoughts on a nanny?

Many regret parenthood it isn’t something to tread lightly

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

I would like to know what’s different know myself, but when discussed I don’t seem to get an answer. I get blamed a lot saying I don’t communicate but I say it’s not just me it’s both of us,
How can you solely blame one person in a two person relationship idk. She says it’s all me. In general she has always been a lot more chatty her work involves her talking a lot holding meetings

Yes I was quiet before marriage too, no kids and don’t feel burnout life is better as an attending than a resident for sure. If anything she is spending more time w family we moved to be much closer to her family and friends. She sees them much more than ever before esp over the 6months

Here's the rub, and what might be two huge uncorrectable red flags here:

1) lack of accountability. It's all your fault.

2) lack of empathy. My gf and I are both type A and have "lively" disagreements sometimes. However we both have the ability to view the issue at hand from the others perspective. It's not clear to me that your wife can.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Sometimes spending a lot more time with “family and friends” can be a warning sign tbh

 

[emergentmd]

The source of that article seems to come to the figure by tallying up work hours and multiplying that by an hourly rate (including overtime, I believe).

I can't say I fully agree with their methodology, but if you go by their reasoning, the husband's salary doesn't factor into the calculation.

This is feminist, left wing, hogwash. I go to work 40 hrs, come home and spend 40 hours taking care of the household/kids. So we both work 80hrs overall. So does that mean all working parents should be paid 80K too for the 40 hrs they spent at home?

SAH parents are tough, hard work. No doubt.

My wife stayed home with 3 kids and I would NEVER be able to do it or do as good of a job. No doubt. Much respect. Kids much better off.

BUT, after 10yrs and all 3 kids in school, there is NO ONE at home during school. She has 8 hours every day to do anything she want including massages, volunteering, or whatever she wants.

She has it really good that she paid her dues. Its tough but there is a finite workload before kids go to school

 

[emergentmd]

I would like to know what’s different know myself, but when discussed I don’t seem to get an answer. I get blamed a lot saying I don’t communicate but I say it’s not just me it’s both of us,
How can you solely blame one person in a two person relationship idk. She says it’s all me. In general she has always been a lot more chatty her work involves her talking a lot holding meetings

Yes I was quiet before marriage too, no kids and don’t feel burnout life is better as an attending than a resident for sure. If anything she is spending more time w family we moved to be much closer to her family and friends. She sees them much more than ever before esp over the 6months

I am not a marriage counselor or have much if any answers. The only advice I can give people (which my wife agrees) is Most if not all women are crazy. You have to find the mildly crazy ones who can understand what is important and not make an issue out of what is not.

If you marry a really crazy one, you are screwed. Heed the warning signs. If you see a red flag, really consider ending the relationship or you are doomed.

My wife is an angel to deal with me. I don't communicate well, never have but doing alittle better. I just don't care to discuss small matter nor do I have empathy for small issues. She has learned to accept it and I do not mean anything when I don't care that her Friends son lost his job.

Find someone who doesn't want to change you but accept your negatives.

 

[emergentmd]

She works from home earns around 175K

Yes I know kids complicate things we got a puppy recently and it was hard early on but it’s better now

Yes she wants children at least one, she has a cush job and wants to keep working even with kids

DO NOT HAVE KIDS. If you think it was hard with a puppy, you are not ready for kids with infinitely more issues. You are at a fork in the road. Heed it. You have a good income, she has a good income. I am not a proponent of divorces, but you need to really reach deep inside to see if this would be better for the both of you.

 

[RustedFox]

This is feminist, left wing, hogwash. I go to work 40 hrs, come home and spend 40 hours taking care of the household/kids. So we both work 80hrs overall. So does that mean all working parents should be paid 80K too for the 40 hrs they spent at home?

SAH parents are tough, hard work. No doubt.

My wife stayed home with 3 kids and I would NEVER be able to do it or do as good of a job. No doubt. Much respect. Kids much better off.

BUT, after 10yrs and all 3 kids in school, there is NO ONE at home during school. She has 8 hours every day to do anything she want including massages, volunteering, or whatever she wants.

She has it really good that she paid her dues. Its tough but there is a finite workload before kids go to school

It's typical drivel from that poster.

"My job is work about 350k because I have a contract that says so"

Yep. Because that contract indicates that my skill, training, and expertise is worth something to someone ELSE, in a monetary fashion; who would otherwise have no obligation to me, and who is also making money off of my degree. Not at all the case with a SAHM.

Nevermind that. Too many people in here think that most people run around with nannies. News Flash: few people actually do, and nanny work doesn't require a four year degree.

Typical fantasy world stuff. False equivalences all over.