2020-2021 Idaho College of Osteopathic Medicine (ICOM)

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PapaGuava

The Real PG
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Please feel free to tag a pre-medical moderator when the secondary prompt is posted.

Good luck to everyone applying!

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Anyone have some sort of update on federal loans?
 
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The other issue I have with this school is that they list the internal medicine residency at Bingham Hospital in Blackfoot as one of their three affiliated residencies. Effective this June, that residency program is closed. Bingham took down the link to their closed residency program so ICOM just changed the reference/link to the Bingham Hospital's main web-page instead of the non-existent residency program. That is a totally disingenuous move on ICOM's part in my opinion.
 
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Welcome to Let's Talk About ICOM 2: Electric Boogaloo. My original post went up 6 months ago, but I thought it's worth updating and sharing for our DO friends applying this cycle. Hopefully, this one is a little more eloquent than the first time around. So, let's talk about ICOM...again.

Introduction + Disclaimer
For those who are unaware, the Idaho College of Osteopathic Medicine (ICOM) is a relatively new private, for-profit medical school in Meridian, Idaho. Their inaugural class will be entering their 3rd year and begin rotations in the Fall of 2020. It is not fully accredited by COCA and ineligible for federal loans at the time of this posting.
A lot of people have asked me: "Why do you care?". Guesses have been made that I'm a bitter applicant who was rejected. No, just a loser with too much time on his hands in self-isolation. The purpose of this post and its predecessor are to dissuade applicants from this sketchy program the same way premeds dissuade applicants from going Caribbean.
But why ICOM specifically? I grew up literally down the road of the new ICOM campus and have followed its development prudently since its inception. Four of my mentors (2 orthopedists, one pathologist, one FM, all members of the Idaho Medical Association) introduced me to ICOM in the earliest stages of its planning back in 2016. They were very disgruntled with the school's founders for reasons I will explain later, and these concerns were echoed as I've spoken with other physicians, local hospital administrators, and UW/WWAMI administrators. Most premeds would never be able to find this information on their own, so I think it's worth sharing and I'd like to help everyone make an informed decision.
You can, and most likely will, be a doctor after attending this school. I'm not even denying that you will be a good doctor after attending this school. But why attend this school when there are 140+ objectively better choices out there? This school might one day be good, even great, but let someone else work out the bugs.
Bonus disclaimer: This is not an MD/DO debate. I care more about your personal character than the two characters behind your name.

Part 1 - Breaking News: New, For-Profit Schools Are Risky
Let's start with the more general, less upsetting complaints about ICOM. These aren't specific to ICOM, but bear with me.
ICOM is subject to the same pitfalls of many new, for-profit medical schools. New schools are always a gamble. Like when investing in stocks, it's important to do your research and see if these schools are worth investing in and betting your future on.
High seat deposits demand ~$1600 on acceptance (previously $2,000). Interviews and acceptances are sent early and fast so you will pay before MD schools get a hold of you. Many WWAMI applicants this year and last were faced with the decision to pay the deposit or risk getting into UW afterwards.
Lack of accreditation doesn't mean much at this point on its own. However, until accreditation happens, there are no federal student loans (which are more favorable) and no loan deferment. For the financially inclined, this will be a problem when Sallie Mae starts demanding payment and you can't pay it off with services like NHSC.
I also just want to include that ICOM was also launched by investor Dan Burrell, of Burrell College of Medicine (or BCOM). This is the same BCOM with a 25% attrition rate (2020) and 9% failed COMLEX twice. This is not damning to ICOM specifically, but it's not a good look either.
As with most new schools, this one has pretty terrible rotations and almost no GME connections or opportunities. These topics will require a little more scrutiny in new paragraphs with wacky titles.

Part 2 - Put Me Out of My Missouri
It's not uncommon for 3rd year medical students to rotate away from their home institution to nearby hospitals. That's normal and even encouraged, especially as you reach 4th year. It is less normal to leave your city and more so to leave your state for basic clinical rotations.
Interested applicants, please take a look at their clinical rotations here.
2/3 of ICOM students this year will be traveling upwards of 500 miles to North Dakota, South Dakota, Missouri, and New York for their core rotations. Only about 1/3 actually stay within 200 miles of the school. This is both absurd and cruel to existing students, especially considering there is no assistance with housing or transport to these locations at this time. Placement is based on a lottery system.
Why else does this matter? Well, it's my time to shine as a local inter-hospital employee.
The difference in rotations between, say, UW or Utah and ICOMs core rotations is case complexity and abundance. At University of Utah, you will see complex cases, traumas, pediatrics, burns, rare disorders all in one facility system, all in one day. Your exposure to different specialties, research, and complex patients is the best in the region.
Rotations in Idaho mean you will only see burns in EIRMC (Idaho Falls), traumas at St. Al's (West Boise), pediatrics at St. Luke's (Downtown Boise), and many of our complex cases are shipped to UW (Seattle) or Utah (Salt Lake). My job requires I'm very familiar with all these facilities. No single Idaho facility has the capability or credentials to take on all of these types of patients. As a student, this is NOT okay. You are paying top dollar for this exposure. Why shortchange yourself?

Part 3 - GEM talks about GME
Let's walk through a scenario as an ICOM student.
Congratulations. You've managed to get through your rotations (wherever they may be), passed your STEPs, and crushed COMLEX. Time to match.
You're in luck! There are about 41 primary care residency slots in Idaho, and you are one of the few students who rotated through those locations! Wowie!
Alas, you're also competing with the 161 other students who graduated from ICOM, as well as the many competitive UW Seattle students, 60+ WWAMI Idaho students, and 10 University of Utah students who also rotated through there. NOW THERE ARE OVER 75 APPLICANTS (Many MD) PER ONE RESIDENCY SLOT IN IDAHO. *Gulp*

Being familiar with residency PDs via your rotations is a huge advantage when matching. As an Idaho student, you'll likely know the programs and want to apply to residencies here, but the fact of the matter is you're not likely to make it.
Again, this isn't an MD/DO debate, but you're not going to be competitive against these MD students that have historically have rotated through these residencies for longer and are heavily incentivized to stay as physicians in Idaho - a state ranked 49th in physicians per capita.
This is also an issue as ICOM also promised new residency slots in Idaho as part of their mission to decrease the physician shortage *in Idaho*. Since then, they've been silent on this goal and have contracted with a Montana health system to create residencies instead. They plan on opening only 78 residency slots, although there is no confirmed date they will be available, and again, it's not enough to cover the 150+ students they have. Source

Part 4 - The Lack of Transparency Is Apparent
This is by far the most important part in this series. ICOM has a baffling number of red flags and a very shady past.
I can not recommend this article enough. Seriously, read it.
Before Idaho, the Burrell Group (a group of investors wishing to create a medical school), were rejected from making the school in Montana. Naturally, Idaho was their next best bet as a vulnerable state with no official medical school, aside from WWAMI/UW.

- The Bozeman Daily Chronicle on why ICOM (planned to be MCOM) was rejected from Montana
Since its inception, ICOM has upset members of the Idaho Medical Association and local hospitals with a lack of transparency on its budget, plans for rotations, amount of investment, etc. This is beyond sketchy for what should be public information, especially as the state has promised tax breaks to the COM in expectation that it will bring in money to the local economy.
Idaho's (now) former governor, Butch Otter, approved the creation of ICOM under the assumption that it would bring residencies and more physicians to Idaho. As stated previously, this isn't going to happen.
The inaugural dean of ICOM, Robert Hasty, made a hasty retreat from ICOM after only 3 years to help build a new for-profit school in Kansas. Insert surprised pikachu face.
Today, ICOM has become something of an inside joke for practicing Idaho physicians. Many agree that Idaho needs more doctors, but ICOM is not going to help. A great opinion piece was written about them here.

Part 5 - Going for Broke
I want to conclude by circling back on the fact that this school is a for-profit institution. Unlike a state university and like a Caribbean institution, the school does not want to invest in itself or in you. Rotations are far away because it's going to the cheapest locations. The Montana Medical Association did not trust the intentions of the founders of ICOM. Finally, the ICOM is under consideration as being a less-than-stellar investment and may not make returns as planned. Source
Your education is not their priority. Physician shortages are not their priority. Honesty is not their priority.
In order to make profits, the school has concrete plans to double its class size to 324 students by 2034. An increase of 54 students, every four years. Remember how there are 41 primary care residency slots? Do the math. Source (Page 10)
Medical school is not and will not be the rest of your life, but does play a major role it. You deserve better. Go somewhere else.
I am unsure why @--Gem has made it his/her personal mission to disparage ICOM. SDN reminds me a lot of Twitter. Users tend to have hyperbolic opinions that are not representative of the on the ground reality. If you chose to attend this school you will most likely match and be a competent physician who will be able to pay back your loans if you're financially disciplined. I am of the personal opinion that @PapaGuava should delete this post because it's not relevant to the thread, but I digress. I have responded to @--Gem claims via private message and feel obligated to offer a differing opinion publicly.

Re: Part 1 - Breaking News: New, For-Profit Schools Are Risky
This point is fair. There is an inherent risk to going to a new school. You are going to be the "guinea pig" and have to deal with all of the problems intrinsic to a new school (i.e. new curriculum, lack of rotations, etc.) However, this in itself doesn't make the school bad.

Also, I want to add the high seat deposits are normal for even reputable D.O. schools. For example, Michigan State College of Osteopathic Medicine requires a $1050 deposit.

Re: Part 2 - Put Me Out of My Missouri
Another fair point. ICOM has been transparent that they are working on getting more/better rotations for their students.

But this gets at a larger point regarding medical school education. Which is do rotations really matter? And I mean that not in regards to the personal connections that you make (there's no doubting that these will be beneficial for letters, residency, etc), but for your personal education. There have been plenty of users on here at top medical schools complaining that their rotations were glorified shadowing. I don't have an opinion on this, but let's say hypothetically that it isn't that beneficial to your personal education and you're only missing the personal connections that you make from rotations. Well that's what away rotations are for! To make connections with programs directors and physicians in your desired specialty.

Re: Part 3 - GEM talks about GME
In my opinion, this point is moot. Medical students regularly move across the country for residency. This is normal and should be the expected if you decide to attend ICOM.

Re: Part 4 - The Lack of Transparency Is Apparent
This is where @--Gem is wrong and spreading misinformation. I have personally spoke with the CEO of the IMA in trying to make an informed decision as to whether I should attend ICOM. And she claimed that the IMA "has never had a position of opposition to ICOM". Although, there was controversy initially because the founders of ICOM did not include IMA in their discussions. Both organizations are now working together.

Robert Hasty has carved out a niche for himself (for better or for worse) as the dean who helps start new medical schools. It has nothing to do with ICOM.

I (and others) are uninterested in anecdotes of practicing physicians opinions of ICOM. They aren't helpful or relevant to the discussion.

Re: Part 5 - Going for Broke
Again, this is wrong. The incentives obviously point in the right direction. If the students succeed so does the school. The for-profit status is moot. Being that all schools for-profit or not are in the business of making money. The one's aren't for profit just happen to be subsidizes by the state and therefore have more stake holders.

In conclusion, the reason I responded to @--Gem is because I want users on here to make an informed decision. In good faith, I believe that @--Gem does as well. However, I don't believe that the hyperbole around ICOM is justified. Medical school education is standardized across the country for the first two years and I am unsure if clinical rotations matter that much if you're able to schedule two or three aways in your desired specialty. My point is, it's on the individual to succeed.
 
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@Nave I have never received a private message from you. We have spoken briefly in a separate forum (I can't recall which).


The answers you seek are found in my introduction. Very, very specifically laid out because people really can't wrap their minds around why I write this stuff up.

This is relevant to the thread. It is "School Specific", I have discussed this with a moderator.

In your heart of hearts, where would you rather rotate: Mass General in Boston or an internal medicine in Twin Falls? Connections matter. I'd love to get a physician's opinion here.

I have sources for everything you think is "wrong". See the Reddit thread for the full list, but it's all linked there. If you have better sources towards the "correct" answer, I would be happy to read them and change my post accordingly.

Yes you did. On Reddit.

Sorry, I should have clarified. I don't find your reasoning compelling. To compare ICOM or any other D.O. school to the Caribbean is patently absurd.

Agree to disagree on this one. It clearly not relevant even if @PapaGuava agrees. Users can use the search function to find out more information about the school.

Of course we would both prefer to rotate at Mass General, but only a small percentage of the medical students will be afforded such an opportunity. Also, I don't disagree that connections matter. I made the very point that they do in fact matter in my argument.

I am uninterested in derailing this thread further. Users are welcome to read our opinions and decide for themselves. If you want to discuss this further I am happy to do it over private message.
 
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@--Gem @Nave
We will not be having a repeat arguments between medical students since these threads are intended to facilitate discussion between current applicants. Obviously current medical students are able to chime in and give their opinion on various institutions but we do not want these threads to get locked up like a few of them experienced last cycle. So once you have made your point, please move on. I spoke to Gem and other users about these issues moving forward and I will continue to keep an eye on everything moving forward through this cycle.
 
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@--Gem @Nave
We will not be having a repeat of arguments between medical students since these threads are intended to facilitate discussion between current applicants. Obviously current medical students are able to chime in and give their opinion on various institutions but we do not want these threads to get locked up like a few of them experienced last cycle. So once you have made your point, please move on. I spoke to Gem and other users about these issues moving forward and I will continue to keep an eye on everything moving forward through this cycle.
Understandable. Like I said, I believe @--Gem share the same goal in that we both want applicants to make an informed decision. However, we've come to different conclusions. I welcome applicants to read both of arguments and make their own decision. I will refrain from commenting further.
 
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Received notification that they got my application!
 
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Yes email! Yesterday morning around 10 am!
I received an email yesterday as well (at a little past 6:00 p.m.). Can you please post when you receive the secondary application and what the essay questions are (in case you receive it before me)?
 
I received an email yesterday as well (at a little past 6:00 p.m.). Can you please post when you receive the secondary application and what the essay questions are (in case you receive it before me)?
Yess!! I will keep everyone updated!
 
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Yesterday I got an email confirmation that they received my application as well! :)
 
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Hey guys, since I was born out of the US, but I am a US citizen, I received an email yesterday to send them a copy of my passport/citizenship certificate. I also received the email conformation that they received my application. No secondary application yet though
 
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Hi guys. I’m an upcoming OMS-II at ICOM (class of ‘23) and was born and raised in Idaho. As on last year’s thread, I’m happy to answer any questions you might have about the school (that I am able to answer, at least) or about Meridian and the surrounding area. Good luck with your application cycle, and hang in there; I know the uncertainty in the world right now makes this stressful time even more stressful!
 
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Hi guys. I’m an upcoming OMS-II at ICOM (class of ‘23) and was born and raised in Idaho. As on last year’s thread, I’m happy to answer any questions you might have about the school (that I am able to answer, at least) or about Meridian and the surrounding area. Good luck with your application cycle, and hang in there; I know the uncertainty in the world right now makes this stressful time even more stressful!
Hey! How long did it take between being acknowledged of your application to the secondary? This is my number 1 school so I'm excited to throw them my money.
 
Got an email confirmation today that they received my application and in next 2-4 weeks they will review my primary app.
 
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Secondary invitation received earlier today!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
Wait an actual secondary??

Yeah! Quicker turn around than expect. Essay questions below:

Why did you apply to ICOM?
If you are a re-applicant to ICOM, how have you improved your application? If this does not apply to you, answer N/A.
How will you integrate osteopathic medicine in your future practice?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
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Yeah! Quicker turn around than expect. Essay questions below:

Why did you apply to ICOM?
If you are a re-applicant to ICOM, how have you improved your application? If this does not apply to you, answer N/A.
How will you integrate osteopathic medicine in your future practice?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
WHAT WOAH. when did you get verified??
 
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WHAT WOAH. when did you get verified??

Verified 6/12. Received confirmation that they got my primary on 6/15, and then got the secondary yesterday 6/19


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
Verified 6/12. Received confirmation that they got my primary on 6/15, and then got the secondary yesterday 6/19


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
That’s nutty. I was verified May 13th. Good luck tho!
 
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Is ICOM giving out secondaries without an MCAT? Wont have a score for another 6 weeks.
 
Do we need to complete Casper in order to receive secondary?
 
Do we need to complete Casper in order to receive secondary?

I have not completed Casper yet, and did receive my secondary


Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
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Does anyone know the maximum word count on the secondaries? They listed the essay questions in their secondary email, but no word count. Their secondary application is through a Google form, and I don't want to go through it until I have the essays written. Thanks in advance!
 
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Does anyone know the maximum word count on the secondaries? They listed the essay questions in their secondary email, but no word count. Their secondary application is through a Google form, and I don't want to go through it until I have the essays written. Thanks in advance!
According to the last few years, it’s no limit.
 
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Got notice today that they’re putting my app into the final review without MCAT still.
 
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Is anyone else attending the web seminar today? Does anyone know if participants will be expected to come onto camera?
 
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Hey everyone. My app was verified well before apps were sent out to schools and I just took the MCAT on 6/20. I see that others are getting secondaries from ICOM but I still haven’t gotten one yet?

My gpa and other ECs meet the cut off. Is there a reason why I haven’t gotten mine yet? Starting to get worried
 
Hey everyone. My app was verified well before apps were sent out to schools and I just took the MCAT on 6/20. I see that others are getting secondaries from ICOM but I still haven’t gotten one yet?

My gpa and other ECs meet the cut off. Is there a reason why I haven’t gotten mine yet? Starting to get worried

Yesterday I attended their webinar and they said that they were still in the process of “reviewing primaries”, so they likely have not gotten to yours yet!
 
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Does anyone know if they're lenient about their 3.2 sGPA cutoff if I'm sligghhtttllyy below it? Just submitted my primary and I'm now realizing I should have asked this before submitting...
 
Hey! How long did it take between being acknowledged of your application to the secondary? This is my number 1 school so I'm excited to throw them my money.
Looks like since you've asked this, you got your secondary! :) Good luck!
 
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Does anyone know if they're lenient about their 3.2 sGPA cutoff if I'm sligghhtttllyy below it? Just submitted my primary and I'm now realizing I should have asked this before submitting...
In the past, this has been flexible, and based on the way it is still worded on the website, my guess is that it remains flexible. The website states that the most competitive applicants have 3.2 or higher, but not that it is required. Similarly, they prefer a 50th percentile MCAT or higher; however, I do know a couple of people who were accepted with lower than 50th percentile MCATs. SO while a higher GPA and MCAT will always be beneficial just like at any med school, I would still apply to ICOM if you like the school and feel like you're a good fit for the school otherwise. :) Good luck!
 
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Just received an email stating they "prefer to make a decision regarding [my] candidacy once [my] planned MCAT score has been received". Taking the MCAT August 8, so my app will be placed on hold until they get my scores.
 
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In the past, this has been flexible, and based on the way it is still worded on the website, my guess is that it remains flexible. The website states that the most competitive applicants have 3.2 or higher, but not that it is required. Similarly, they prefer a 50th percentile MCAT or higher; however, I do know a couple of people who were accepted with lower than 50th percentile MCATs. SO while a higher GPA and MCAT will always be beneficial just like at any med school, I would still apply to ICOM if you like the school and feel like you're a good fit for the school otherwise. :) Good luck!

Thank you! I submitted my primary last night, got notification that they received my application this morning. Fingers crossed!
 
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Just received an email stating they "prefer to make a decision regarding [my] candidacy once [my] planned MCAT score has been received". Taking the MCAT August 8, so my app will be placed on hold until they get my scores.
Was the email a recognition of you submitting your secondary?
 
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