Yale vs UCSF (lots of questions!)

[AprilLudgate]

Hi everyone,

I'm in a very fortunate situation to be choosing between Yale and UCSF, but unfortunately cannot attend second-look weekend for either.

Main things to consider, in order of how divided I am:

Research project -
I am a semi non-trad and worked in humanities before applying to medical school. I would like to continue to incorporate my former studies and work into my medical research during school and as a (hopeful) future academic. I plan to take an extra year for my thesis and might want to go abroad for a portion of that year.

Yale
Yale has one of the best programs in the world for my previous field. It would be ideal to see if I could collaborate with the faculty from that department in a potential research project. At interview day, I heard over and over again that the Yale System allows students to not only take courses outside of the medical school, but also incorporate my humanities background into a senior thesis project. I believe there would be ample support for my project at Yale. Only con: would it be an issue for competitive residencies if I do a fairly off-beat research project?

UCSF
UCSF is a stand-alone campus, and I doubt would have the institutional support that Yale does. Does anyone have any insight into how easy it might be to take an extra year for research at UCSF, and whether I could do joint work with either Stanford or Berkeley in the humanities?

Chillness Factor / Happiness
Yale
Seemed to be among the happiest medical students in the country. Student culture was very supportive and the lack of grades is very appealing. At the same time, I feel that there must be some kind of catch to the no grading system in residency applications, especially if I want to return to CA for residency. Does anyone know if the Yale System / no grading is looked down on in residency applications?
I also thought New Haven wasn't that bad, and I would like to make regular trips to New York where many of my good friends live.

UCSF
Students also seemed very happy, but not in the same overt, over-the-top way as Yale. Couldn't really get a read on how relaxed students are there. Huge fan of SF, and close to family. I would be very happy living in SF and it obviously wins hands down in the weather category.

Public vs. Private
Yale
Should be hearing back in the next few days, but probably won't qualify for much if any financial aid. At the same time, attending a private institution with a huge endowment might allow me to do extra projects/get funding for things that I wouldn't elsewhere. Also I believe Yale gives funding for a research year.

UCSF
CA resident, so about $15k/year cheaper than Yale. Public institution, so probably more red-tape than Yale. Don't know how easy it is to do a funded research year – I don't believe UCSF has money allocated for 5th year students, would probably have to look for outside funding. (Please correct me if I'm wrong!)

Clinical training

Does anyone have any insight into the degree of malignancy/medical school support to protect students from scut work? Otherwise, both schools seem like they have excellent clinical training. Seems like a toss-up, with a slight edge to UCSF.

Thanks!! Any insight is appreciated. (especially if there are any current students out there!)

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[breakintheroof]

Congrats to you @AprilLudgate, and nice pros and cons list!

I am considering both schools. I feel like I would summarize the factors you're weighing this way:

Yale: Perfect for other field you're passionate about, great fit with curriculum and students, more supported opportunities
UCSF: Closer to family, location you know and love, estimated $15K/year cheaper, slight edge in clinical training

I think you are too concerned about how this or that will look for residency. Both schools match students wherever they want. And personally I think that if you have something you are passionate about that you'd like to continue doing in med school, you should do it without worrying it might make you look "off-beat!"

Given your interests I think you sound like a great fit for Yale. As long as you won't be too sad about leaving San Francisco behind.

 

[resiroth]

Doing a 5th year is the norm at Yale from what I recall. Yale system was historically looked down upon a bit...relative to harvard et al. Not relative to say others in the top 10. In the end it has a solid rep and I doubt there would be much national prestige. If you want to match into UCSF specifically I would go to UCSF...but if you're not ecstatic about UCSF now, how sure are you that you'd want to spend not just 4, but 8+?

Tbh I think Yale is a much stronger fit for you. They also tend to do notably better than UCSF on step, so yale system isn't holding them back there that's for sure. UCSF is the only school I'd be slightly worried about since it's the only school that scores significantly below what you'd expect based on their incoming class...the anti-baylor essentially.

 

[breakintheroof]

Tbh I think Yale is a much stronger fit for you. They also tend to do notably better than UCSF on step, so yale system isn't holding them back there that's for sure. UCSF is the only school I'd be slightly worried about since it's the only school that scores significantly below what you'd expect based on their incoming class...the anti-baylor essentially.

While I agree that Yale may be a better fit, I don't think the difference in Step I should come into play.

First, UCSF students match far better than their scores predict (edit: here are their post-match reports, check out the average step scores in each specialty and compare them to the national average). Just as important, our wise elders tell us that Step I is all about individual motivation, in addition to ability. I would hazard a guess that UCSF students on average are less concerned about Step I than their peers at other schools because so many are focused on primary care. If you look at match lists, UCSF produces far more family med graduates than other top schools, and I think that has everything to do with what their students are interested in. No need to gun for 260+ if you want to be a family doc!

 

[resiroth]

While I agree that Yale may be a better fit, I don't think the difference in Step I should come into play.

First, UCSF students match far better than their scores predict (I'll provide the link later when not on mobile). Just as important, our wise elders tell us that Step I is all about individual motivation, in addition to ability. I would hazard a guess that UCSF students on average are less concerned about Step I than their peers at other schools because so many are focused on primary care. If you look at match lists, UCSF produces far more family med graduates than other top schools, and I think that has everything to do with what their students are interested in. No need to gun for 260+ if you want to be a family doc!

That's a good point about an abnormally large number of people being interested in primary care at ucsf relative to other top medical schools.

 

[C@lidoc]

I'm in the same boat as you, but will probably end up at UCSF. Also, from speaking to students at UCSF and people that have recently matched, lots of people end up getting their first choice match, even with lower step 1 scores! That should tell you something. Sound like Yale might be a slightly better fit for you. For me, my family is in CA and I'd love to do residency at UCSF, so it makes my decision easier.

 

[Willy38]

Yale waitlister here so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

I think UCSF would be tough to compete with given its environment and reputation (I didn't even get an interview there) but given your specific interests, it seems Yale is a better fit for you (unless you are interested in primary care). Only you can decide if its worth 60k more though.

Congrats on your choices, I'm sure you will be happy at either of your options!