What are you going to buy with your first real Doc paycheck?

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Doctor4Life1769 said:
You gave it a lot of thought, eh?
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Yeah, two whole minutes remembering why I didn't like each city lol. I guess I'm just meant for the sticks.
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MedicineZ0Z said:
Unless you wasted those years (which many do) then it's essentially impossible for your life to be better for the reasons I pointed out. I've never met anyone who disagreed and all of them are doing really well.
You simply will not have the free time and low stress environment necessary to do much. Remaining objective and realistic is very important for people in this field. False expectations = unhappiness down the line.
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Given some of the creepiness you've displayed in other threads, I probably shouldn't ask what types of activities you consider "not wasting" your college years.
 
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I think I'll splurge and get a venti black coffee instead of a grande black coffee at Starbucks.
 
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Mad Jack said:
All cities suck IMO, bro.
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Never met a group of physicians as unhappy as the ones I encountered living in NYC. I think it's a combination of lower payments (NYC docs get paid less than those in other places) and higher cost of living. I guess it's fine if your living as a poor single medstudent in a shared apartment accumulating debt. But it blows to live in NYC as an attending physician with a family, paying off that debt, and trying to build a nest egg. And I'm saying this coming from a high paying specialty.
 
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mpdoc2 said:
Never met a group of physicians as unhappy as the ones I encountered living in NYC. I think it's a combination of lower payments (NYC docs get paid less than those in other places) and higher cost of living. I guess it's fine if your living as a poor single medstudent in a shared apartment accumulating debt. But it blows to live in NYC as an attending physician with a family, paying off that debt, and trying to build a nest egg. And I'm saying this coming from a high paying specialty.
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Don't forget about the unionized nursing and "support staff"
 
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mpdoc2 said:
I can't wait till you realize Bernie can't do anything without the Senate and House which is controlled by the Republicans. The Senate will 100% retain republican majority and therefore killing any plans Bernie has.
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This is why we must vote for Bernie. He is a 4 year place holder while both parties get their head out of their asses and get behind electable candidates.
First purchase was a Bonatti Grey Rover.
Nothing depreciates like a Range Rover.
If you want one, get a low mileage lease return and spring for the ~$4k extended warranty. Mine paid out at least twice that and it didn't even have many issues during its tenure.
 
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IlDestriero said:
This is why we must vote for Bernie. He is a 4 year place holder while both parties get their head out of their asses and get behind electable candidates.
First purchase was a Bonatti Grey Rover.
Nothing depreciates like a Range Rover.
If you want one, get a low mileage lease return and spring for the ~$4k extended warranty. Mine paid out at least twice that and it didn't even have many issues during its tenure.
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Who cares if the RR depreciates - enjoy your flawless piece of British engineering and don't worry about how much it's costing you :)
 
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StraightOuttaBrooklyn said:
Who cares if the RR depreciates - enjoy your flawless piece of British engineering and don't worry about how much it's costing you :)
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flawless? quite the contrary. terrible mechanical issues. hence above warranty paying out double.
 
PL198 said:
flawless? quite the contrary. terrible mechanical issues. hence above warranty paying out double.
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I apologize if the spirit of my message was not as obvious as I had intended it to be - I'm an admirer of the brand.
 
PL198 said:
flawless? quite the contrary. terrible mechanical issues. hence above warranty paying out double.
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Actually it had very few problems and I was very happy with it.
It's just that every problem it had cost several thousand dollars to repair.
I'd consider another one in the future, but I'd get one off a 24 month lease with 20k miles.
It also had an unhealthy appetite for expensive tires. My current lux-o-barge is just as heavy, or more, but doesn't seem to eat up the rubber.
 
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If I became an attending today, in my specialty of choice (EM)? I'd buy, or rather put a very large down-payment on, a BMW M4, or possibly a 36ft sailboat if I happened to live on the coast. These are things I'd want to enjoy in my life at some point, so it's better to front-load them when I still have my virile juices flowing rather than wait for middle age.

In 8 years when I actually will be an attending? With the way things are going in medicine and the economy, I'm not sure the "Doc paycheck" will be anything so glorious as to inspire flights of fancy like this thread.
 
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Brahnold said:
If I became an attending today, in my specialty of choice (EM)? I'd buy, or rather put a very large down-payment on, a BMW M4, or possibly a 36ft sailboat if I happened to live on the coast. These are things I'd want to enjoy in my life at some point, so it's better to front-load them when I still have my virile juices flowing rather than wait for middle age.

In 8 years when I actually will be an attending? With the way things are going in medicine and the economy, I'm not sure the "Doc paycheck" will be anything so glorious as to inspire flights of fancy like this thread.
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I agree with the M4. That is my dream car at the moment. Would probably be my first purchase as well.


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Brahnold said:
If I became an attending today, in my specialty of choice (EM)? I'd buy, or rather put a very large down-payment on, a BMW M4, or possibly a 36ft sailboat if I happened to live on the coast. These are things I'd want to enjoy in my life at some point, so it's better to front-load them when I still have my virile juices flowing rather than wait for middle age.
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amnesia.jpg
 
IlDestriero said:
SNIP
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Nice boat you got there. Out of idle curiosity: how much does it cost for yearly upkeep, all things considered? Obviously it greatly depends on where you moor it, San Francisco or Boston is going to be an order of magnitude different from some Alaskan fishing village, but ballpark figure. Thanks.
 
Brahnold said:
ballpark figure. Thanks.
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Figure around a 3 series BMW for a good size sail boat at a minimum.
It's very variable depending on mooring at your local yacht club vs dockage fees vs your own dock on the waterway, etc, where you live is a factor, winterizing and storage can be several thousand every fall, taxes, insurance, proactive vs reactive maintenance costs, engine maintenance, etc.
There's a reason that 75% of boat sales are pre owned. A 50¢ screw in your deck at home costs $10 bucks for your other deck.
My friend rents power boats at his yacht club in Florida because even though they're really expensive by the hour or day, it's far far cheaper than buying one (3-800k) and watching it depreciate and decompose unless you're out every other weekend. Who has time for that.
Figure at least 10% of the value of the boat every year as a minimum, more for a power boat.
That 40k Boston Whaler is looking pretty good now, right? And you can store it in your back yard.
I have another college buddy that races and he spends hundreds of thousands a year on top of the cost of the actual boat. One year he won a Rolex Daytona. Lol. Finance guys...
A nice boat is like buying a vacation home, that depreciates.
 
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IlDestriero said:
Figure around a 3 series BMW for a good size sail boat at a minimum.
It's very variable depending on mooring at your local yacht club vs dockage fees vs your own dock on the waterway, etc, where you live is a factor, winterizing and storage can be several thousand every fall, taxes, insurance, proactive vs reactive maintenance costs, engine maintenance, etc.
There's a reason that 75% of boat sales are pre owned. A 50¢ screw in your deck at home costs $10 bucks for your other deck.
My friend rents power boats at his yacht club in Florida because even though they're really expensive by the hour or day, it's far far cheaper than buying one (3-800k) and watching it depreciate and decompose unless you're out every other weekend. Who has time for that.
Figure at least 10% of the value of the boat every year as a minimum, more for a power boat.
That 40k Boston Whaler is looking pretty good now, right? And you can store it in your back yard.
I have another college buddy that races and he spends hundreds of thousands a year on top of the cost of the actual boat. One year he won a Rolex Daytona. Lol. Finance guys...
A nice boat is like buying a vacation home, that depreciates.
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Ouch. This is why I laugh (bitterly) when I hear my peers proclaim how 150-200k is "more money than anyone would ever need." I'd imagine that 200k gets you to a merely "comfortable" lifestyle in the more expensive parts of the country, and if you actually want to enjoy life with moderate luxuries like a mid range sport car or higher end hobbies lsuch as boating, you better make at least 300-500k.

Of course, many then go on to say that you're greedy and going into medicine for the wrong reasons if you want to have enough money to do fun things in your days off. Apparently doctors should be a separate species of human, content to serve patients and leave the idea of enjoying life and having fun to their betters.
 
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StraightOuttaBrooklyn said:
Who cares if the RR depreciates - enjoy your flawless piece of British engineering and don't worry about how much it's costing you :)
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Q: Why don't the British make computers?
A: The engineers couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil.

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"Doctor Coffin," anyone? The carbon fiber Cirrus SR22T actually has a parachute that rocket deploys, and lowers the whole plane. New price approximately $800,000.
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DrBodacious said:
"Doctor Coffin," anyone? The carbon fiber Cirrus SR22T actually has a parachute that rocket deploys, and lowers the whole plane. New price approximately $800,000.

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Haven't heard that one, I thought it was called the doctor killer. I wonder how many of their fatalities are doctor pilots to see if their is any truth to that claim. There is a pretty interesting YouTube video about a flight instructor saying their fatality rates are 3 times higher than the similar Columbia 400 (luxury high powered low wing, apparently the fastest single propeller plane in the world too but no parachute), he says it cause the parachute and other features encourage inexperienced pilots to fly into bad weather that they would otherwise avoid

So would you like yours in beige or black?

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You're not going to afford a Ferrari as a doc. We make ~500k. Thats the price of one. It should be 15% of annual income.
 
Brahnold said:
Ouch. This is why I laugh (bitterly) when I hear my peers proclaim how 150-200k is "more money than anyone would ever need." I'd imagine that 200k gets you to a merely "comfortable" lifestyle in the more expensive parts of the country, and if you actually want to enjoy life with moderate luxuries like a mid range sport car or higher end hobbies lsuch as boating, you better make at least 300-500k.

Of course, many then go on to say that you're greedy and going into medicine for the wrong reasons if you want to have enough money to do fun things in your days off. Apparently doctors should be a separate species of human, content to serve patients and leave the idea of enjoying life and having fun to their betters.
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When I hear that money is the wrong reason to go into medicine, I dont hear it as an attack on someone's morals or values. I think it's more the fact that there are just a hell of a lot of ways that you can make money a lot more easily than going to school forever, being pimped by your attendings for years, having to pass standardized tests, making sure your patients are happy, making sure you are making enough RVUs to make your employer happy, getting insurance to pay you and dealing with the potential liabilities of the legal system. All of these you have to deal with in medicine. Other fields, you really dont need to deal with all this
 
neuroace said:
You're not going to afford a Ferrari as a doc. We make ~500k. Thats the price of one. It should be 15% of annual income.
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A ferrari/lambo doesn't cost 500k unless you're looking at brand new and more exotic models. Think more 275k.
Next, why would you buy one? You lease one. No one drives those cars everyday, it's a evening/weekend driver. So you have your daily driver and you lease your high-end car if that's what makes you happy.

The insurance is actually relatively cheap because there's a mileage cap on it that you wouldn't ever exceed anyway. It's really the maintenance cost that matters, ex. oil change costing you 500$ or a needing a new clutch every 30k miles etc.

Anyway, pretty much any doctor (except maybe peds?) can afford these cars assuming you're willing to work longer/efficient hours to make >400k which is roughly what it would take.
 
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neoexile said:
When I hear that money is the wrong reason to go into medicine, I dont hear it as an attack on someone's morals or values. I think it's more the fact that there are just a hell of a lot of ways that you can make money a lot more easily than going to school forever, being pimped by your attendings for years, having to pass standardized tests, making sure your patients are happy, making sure you are making enough RVUs to make your employer happy, getting insurance to pay you and dealing with the potential liabilities of the legal system. All of these you have to deal with in medicine. Other fields, you really dont need to deal with all this
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I think if I had a dollar for every time someone said "there are easier ways to make money than medicine" I'd literally be a millionaire right now.

Why not name some examples then? All everyone says is "oh go into business" as if entrepreneurship is a joke. I've owned a business myself and worked as hard as I did during step 1 prep every single day endlessly. There's no likely reward at the end either like in med school. 95% match rate? Try more like 10% success rate with a business. And even if you do make it, it'll be more of a 5 figure financial reward than the 7 figure case everyone envisions. I can say the same about bankers whose mind is effectively at work 24-7 and are let go quickly when they don't perform well.

What you fail to realize is that just cause some paths let you become super rich, doesn't mean going down that route will get you there. The vast majority of entrepreneurs and bankers etc. will be no where near rich. The vast majority of doctors will have a very high income and can be rich if they pursue the money. It's really that simple.
 
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I can tell you what I did, I immediately went and got a car! In fact, I didn't even wait for my paycheck. I borrowed a few thousand from my parents and went and got it.

To be fair, the car I had at that time was old and breaking down extremely often. It once broke down to meet with my future employer that I had to call them to explain what happened, I was pulled over on the side of the park then they had to drive out to pick me up. It broke down so often I told one of my fellow residents that I could not take him and his wife who was in labor to the hospital because I was afraid my car would break down on the way. I felt so bad about it I sent him a picture of my engine light glaring red.. still feel guilty about it.

Once I got my first paycheck I paid my parents back.
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
I think if I had a dollar for every time someone said "there are easier ways to make money than medicine" I'd literally be a millionaire right now.

Why not name some examples then? All everyone says is "oh go into business" as if entrepreneurship is a joke. I've owned a business myself and worked as hard as I did during step 1 prep every single day endlessly. There's no likely reward at the end either like in med school. 95% match rate? Try more like 10% success rate with a business. And even if you do make it, it'll be more of a 5 figure financial reward than the 7 figure case everyone envisions. I can say the same about bankers whose mind is effectively at work 24-7 and are let go quickly when they don't perform well.

What you fail to realize is that just cause some paths let you become super rich, doesn't mean going down that route will get you there. The vast majority of entrepreneurs and bankers etc. will be no where near rich. The vast majority of doctors will have a very high income and can be rich if they pursue the money. It's really that simple.
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Yeah it's also one of my big pet peeves for people to say there's easier routes to big money.

There are definitely easier routes, like going to buy a lotto ticket. That's very easy and can make you filthy rich.
There's just no easier routes that give you a guarantee of landing a spot in the wealthiest few percentile.

And honestly if someone went into medicine with their priorities being money and lifestyle, there are some very good options. Hard to land, but if you can do it? Be a micrographic surgeon, retina specialist, cosmetic surg, etc. There's really not much out there that can compete. Good luck going into consulting or law or finance and surviving the 90% attrition rate for a decade to finally reach the level in the firm that makes that kind of $$$
 
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dpmd said:
There are a lot more doctors than just peds who aren't able to take home more than 400k.
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Examples? Both FM/IM can make that much by working longer hours and being more efficient/seeing more patients. I'd guess a couple IM subspecialties, ID & nephro, won't be able to make that much. Then we can add pathology and a couple more specialties to the list. Otherwise, every other field is able to do it.
 
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efle said:
Yeah it's also one of my big pet peeves for people to say there's easier routes to big money.

There are definitely easier routes, like going to buy a lotto ticket. That's very easy and can make you filthy rich.
There's just no easier routes that give you a guarantee of landing a spot in the wealthiest few percentile.

And honestly if someone went into medicine with their priorities being money and lifestyle, there are some very good options. Hard to land, but if you can do it? Be a micrographic surgeon, retina specialist, cosmetic surg, etc. There's really not much out there that can compete. Good luck going into consulting or law or finance and surviving the 90% attrition rate for a decade to finally reach the level in the firm that makes that kind of $$$
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Everyone isolates the top 5% of those fields and compares it to medicine. It's comical actually.
 
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efle said:
Yeah it's also one of my big pet peeves for people to say there's easier routes to big money.

There are definitely easier routes, like going to buy a lotto ticket. That's very easy and can make you filthy rich.
There's just no easier routes that give you a guarantee of landing a spot in the wealthiest few percentile.

And honestly if someone went into medicine with their priorities being money and lifestyle, there are some very good options. Hard to land, but if you can do it? Be a micrographic surgeon, retina specialist, cosmetic surg, etc. There's really not much out there that can compete. Good luck going into consulting or law or finance and surviving the 90% attrition rate for a decade to finally reach the level in the firm that makes that kind of $$$
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A skilled tradesperson that starts out right after high school who invests wisely can end up with more wealth than a lot of doctors
 
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dpmd said:
A skilled tradesperson that starts out right after high school who invests wisely can end up with more wealth than a lot of doctors
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Sure, but it all depends on the kind of doctor. A US MD student who prioritizes $$ can make up the difference in just a few years. As some examples from the AMGA comp survey in 2015, the median compensation was 500-600k+ for cardiac cath lab, GI, retina, ortho, Mohs, CT surg etc. Some of those don't even have horrific lifestyles, and those are just medians! If you can put in the kind of hours that low level consultants, lawyers or bankers have to put in to survive the "up-or-out" system, you can retire a lot younger and a lot richer than them, let alone an industrious plumber
 
dpmd said:
A skilled tradesperson that starts out right after high school who invests wisely can end up with more wealth than a lot of doctors
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It’s not just about how much wealth you accumulate by the time you die. It’s also about how much money you have throughout your life so you don’t have to worry money or better yet be able to afford nice things.
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
Examples? Both FM/IM can make that much by working longer hours and being more efficient/seeing more patients. I'd guess a couple IM subspecialties, ID & nephro, won't be able to make that much. Then we can add pathology and a couple more specialties to the list. Otherwise, every other field is able to do it.
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Not every FM or IM lives in a region where they can pick up enough side work to bump them up from the mid 250s they average. Then of course all the academic folks who get paid less on average. I guess you can technically extrapolate from what they earn from full time work and imagine the pay for 80 or more hours of work, but it doesn't mean it is reality.
 
ACSurgeon said:
It’s not just about how much wealth you accumulate by the time you die. It’s also about how much money you have throughout your life so you don’t have to worry money or better yet be able to afford nice things.
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True but the early years where other jobs are building net worth while prospective med students build net debt have a lot less worry about money (especially for those that fail to reach the goal). As for affording nice things, depends on what you mean by nice.
 
efle said:
Sure, but it all depends on the kind of doctor. A US MD student who prioritizes $$ can make up the difference in just a few years. As some examples from the AMGA comp survey in 2015, the median compensation was 500-600k+ for cardiac cath lab, GI, retina, ortho, Mohs, CT surg etc. Some of those don't even have horrific lifestyles, and those are just medians! If you can put in the kind of hours that low level consultants, lawyers or bankers have to put in to survive the "up-or-out" system, you can retire a lot younger and a lot richer than them, let alone an industrious plumber
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Now you are also comparing the top in one field to the average in others.
 
dpmd said:
Not every FM or IM lives in a region where they can pick up enough side work to bump them up from the mid 250s they average. Then of course all the academic folks who get paid less on average. I guess you can technically extrapolate from what they earn from full time work and imagine the pay for 80 or more hours of work, but it doesn't mean it is reality.
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I rotated with a self employed family doctor in a fairly desirable region who saw 40-50+ patients a day and owned an R8. He has a 4.7 star rating online.
What's stopping you from growing your roster and seeing more patients?
 
MedicineZ0Z said:
I rotated with a self employed family doctor in a fairly desirable region who saw 40-50+ patients a day and owned an R8. He has a 4.7 star rating online.
What's stopping you from growing your roster and seeing more patients?
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You misunderstand. I am not arguing from a sour grapes standpoint. I work part time and make about the number we are talking about. Just pointing out it isn't always as simple as working more or better. Also, just because that guy owns an R8 doesn't mean he makes a lot of money. He may simply live beyond his means like so many other doctors of all income levels.
 
dpmd said:
Now you are also comparing the top in one field to the average in others.
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But that's the thing! You don't have to be anywhere near a top student to match something like radiology, which easily pulls 500k+. Same for highly paid surgical specialties that aren't very competitive these days, like vascular.

A typical medical student who is focused on $$, just like our hypothetical tradesman who is going to aggressively save and invest as early as he can, is going to out-earn the tradesman many times over within a couple decades.

That's what distinguishes medicine from other things like consulting. To hit the big bucks in consulting, you have to survive through a weedout where nearly everyone around you fails or burns out. In medicine you can be a totally unremarkable, middle of the pack student and hit paydirt if that's what you want.
 
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dpmd said:
You misunderstand. I am not arguing from a sour grapes standpoint. I work part time and make about the number we are talking about. Just pointing out it isn't always as simple as working more or better. Also, just because that guy owns an R8 doesn't mean he makes a lot of money. He may simply live beyond his means like so many other doctors of all income levels.
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What I'm getting at is that medicine provides a realistic shot at a high income. Other fields don't provide that same probability.
 
efle said:
But that's the thing! You don't have to be anywhere near a top student to match something like radiology, which easily pulls 500k+. Same for highly paid surgical specialties that aren't very competitive these days, like vascular.

A typical medical student who is focused on $$, just like our hypothetical tradesman who is going to aggressively save and invest as early as he can, is going to out-earn the tradesman many times over within a couple decades.

That's what distinguishes medicine from other things like consulting. To hit the big bucks in consulting, you have to survive through a weedout where nearly everyone around you fails or burns out. In medicine you can be a totally unremarkable, middle of the pack student and hit paydirt if that's what you want.
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Yeah, but you gotta make it to med school first though.
 
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dpmd said:
Yeah, but you gotta make it to med school first though.
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True, for most people the trades route is probably the best option available. But for the gifted young college student that has their pick of med school, a good law school, or getting hired into one of the big consulting firms? I think getting the MD and going after a high paying, decent lifestyle specialty is by far the safest route to retirement in early 50s, if that's the goal
 
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