The ultimate COVID thread

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Never thought I’d see the current two unrelated primary news stories of 2020 combined in one headline.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
Biden is old, frail, and senile. Nobody's talking point but my own.

Oh ok just wondering cuz last time you were peddling the '75 year old that was pushed by police and hit his head on the pavement was actually an antifa professional instigator who was interfering with police radios with his cell phone and had an artificial blood tube in his mouth' line.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Haha
  • Wow
Reactions: 8 users
Oh ok just wondering cuz last time you were peddling the '75 year old that was pushed by police and hit his head on the pavement was actually an antifa professional instigator who was interfering with police radios with his cell phone and has an artificial blood tube in his mouth' line.

And you know he was getting paid the big bucks by Soros to do it.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 2 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Never thought I’d see the current two unrelated primary news stories of 2020 combined in one headline.
I’m no lawyer but this sounds a bit unconstitutional.
 
Salty is just calling out the hypocrisy, which is legitimate. You’re no more “right” to disobey social distancing at a protest then you would be at a rally. In either case you’re breaking distancing and risking getting COVID


Again, neither you nor Salty has called out anything as hypocritical unless you are operating under some morally relativistic notion that literally every "political" reason to break social distancing is equally worthy as every other "political" reason, but yet there is no "political" reason that trumps the moral imperative of social distancing. This is a high school level philosophy concept where eventually you can pare this reasoning down to one of those scenarios where your kid is sick and you can pick between A. not breaking social distancing to get necessary medicine and your kid dies B. break social distancing to get the life-saving medicine but it will result in the death of an innocent bystander. If A is a viable choice, then clearly we've established that social distancing is not the end-all-be-all of imperatives, but it is up to each of us to determine where exactly that line is. I think there is already evidence (such as the number of states who have adopted or are in the process of adopting police reform) that the BLM protests have had a tangible positive effect on a life and death issue that's going to be around long after COVID is gone. If there is some evidence that I'm not aware of that a 1/3rd capacity MAGA rally in Tulsa is having a tangible effect on absolutely vital legislation or policy that trump supporters care about (or even on his reelection chances), I'm open to hearing it.



And as far as the moral relativism you guys are engaging in wrt to political causes, if this "political rally" was hypothetically happening in 2020 it would be just as equally good or bad a reason to break social distancing?

1593021129593.png
 
Last edited:
I think there is already evidence (such as the number of states who have adopted or are in the process of adopting police reform) that the BLM protests have had a tangible positive effect on a life and death issue that's going to be around long after COVID is gone.
View attachment 310901
I don't have a problem with the majority of your post, but there's a lot of assumptions in this statement. Whether anyone agrees with the changes or not, we don't know for sure if any of these changes will actually end up being a net positive yet. Law of unintended consequences and all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I don't have a problem with the majority of your post, but there's a lot of assumptions in this statement. Whether anyone agrees with the changes or not, we don't know for sure if any of these changes will actually end up being a net positive yet. Law of unintended consequences and all.
You beat me too it. There was a lot of speculation happening there. An example that immediately comes to mind is that NYPD banned chokeholds in 1993, but despite that Eric Garner happened, and lets be real, he's the one we found out about because of his death.
 
just want to highlight some cultural differences we aussies have.

in Melbourne (population about 5 million) , there is concern about a second wave - they are getting about 20 cases per day and some community transmission for the last week.

The state government asked the federal government to send the army to help.
1000 army personnel will be sent - 850 to help with hotel quarantine, and 150 in medical/logistics/testing roles.

one of the city's two major newspapers has it as their second story, the other it doesnt rate a mention.
the general attitude in the community will be - "great, thanks for the help".
 
just want to highlight some cultural differences we aussies have.

in Melbourne (population about 5 million) , there is concern about a second wave - they are getting about 20 cases per day and some community transmission for the last week.

The state government asked the federal government to send the army to help.
1000 army personnel will be sent - 850 to help with hotel quarantine, and 150 in medical/logistics/testing roles.

one of the city's two major newspapers has it as their second story, the other it doesnt rate a mention.
the general attitude in the community will be - "great, thanks for the help".
Oh we generally screwed here too. Europe has essentially made a travel ban for people from the US and there's tons of new hotspots in the US. The "it'll die off by summer" theory (which I'll admit I somewhat subscribed too) doesn't seem to be holding.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
just want to highlight some cultural differences we aussies have.

in Melbourne (population about 5 million) , there is concern about a second wave - they are getting about 20 cases per day and some community transmission for the last week.

The state government asked the federal government to send the army to help.
1000 army personnel will be sent - 850 to help with hotel quarantine, and 150 in medical/logistics/testing roles.

one of the city's two major newspapers has it as their second story, the other it doesnt rate a mention.
the general attitude in the community will be - "great, thanks for the help".

20 cases a day for a city of 5 million? I'd like to provide you some perspective. my city is a little over 200k and we are seeing anywhere from 50-100 cases a day currently.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 users
Radicals and anarchists do not believe in compromise. The idea to put the Confederate statues into museums is an acceptable idea to me, but it's not good enough for the unhinged rioters. They want chaos, destruction of Western culture, and control. Besides, just look at what they're upset about in NYC. A Teddy Roosevelt statue that sits at the entrance to a museum.
Dude, the problem with the Teddy Roosevelt statue isn't Teddy Roosevelt.

Have you even looked at it or are you just cutting and pasting talking points?

Here, I'll save you the 30 seconds of GIS effort:

25c2981e-4c50-4907-998f-cfaf20df3c66-large16x9_GettyImages1251355082.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: 10 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Sad thing is people have already broken social distancing rules regularly, even in blue states like NY. If social distancing has to be violated, might as well use it for good reasons like protesting for social change.
I was in coastal North Carolina a couple days ago. About 9:00 PM there was a Coldstone Creamery (ice cream shop) near my hotel, which was overflowing with people in line, and crowded into outdoor seating around it. Not a single mask in sight. Must have been 40 people at that tiny little strip mall shop.

Perfect little microcosm of the USA - "Meh, **** it, virus or no, I'm getting ice cream."

In their defense, it was a warm night and I guess it's hard to eat ice cream with a mask on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I was in coastal North Carolina a couple days ago. About 9:00 PM there was a Coldstone Creamery (ice cream shop) near my hotel, which was overflowing with people in line, and crowded into outdoor seating around it. Not a single mask in sight. Must have been 40 people at that tiny little strip mall shop.

Perfect little microcosm of the USA - "Meh, **** it, virus or no, I'm getting ice cream."

In their defense, it was a warm night and I guess it's hard to eat ice cream with a mask on.

Freedom also means the freedom to be stupid.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
One of my favorite sayings is "the dirty little secret of freedom is you're on your own".

Mostly a young crowd. I'm pretty sure they'll all be fine, whether they catch it or not. :shrug:

Maybe not so much for their parents, grandparents or random old and/or sick folks that they encounter in their travels.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
20 cases a day for a city of 5 million? I'd like to provide you some perspective. my city is a little over 200k and we are seeing anywhere from 50-100 cases a day currently.
yeah - I've been watching the us stats, just highlighting the difference in response to the virus and how it is publicly perceived.
I feel for you guys. stay safe.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Dude, the problem with the Teddy Roosevelt statue isn't Teddy Roosevelt.

Have you even looked at it or are you just cutting and pasting talking points?

Here, I'll save you the 30 seconds of GIS effort:

25c2981e-4c50-4907-998f-cfaf20df3c66-large16x9_GettyImages1251355082.jpg
Sheesh. In the maybe dozens of times that I've been to the Natural History Museum, I've never even noticed it, which I know can be used as a counterargument to taken these statues down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I don't have a problem with the majority of your post, but there's a lot of assumptions in this statement. Whether anyone agrees with the changes or not, we don't know for sure if any of these changes will actually end up being a net positive yet. Law of unintended consequences and all.

You don't know if banning chokeholds, ending qualified immunity, allowing justified prosecutions against police, and/or ending no-knock warrants will be a net positive? Ok pal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Mostly a young crowd. I'm pretty sure they'll all be fine, whether they catch it or not. :shrug:
That line of thinking is a reason why these states have no chance in hell of containing this. I remember ppl in NYC having this attitude weeks before the tsunami hit. It wasn't long before they were stacking body bags in meat freezer trucks. Exponential growth is a bitch. Countries all over the world were able to control this using nothing but competence and empathy. Unfortunately, we have neither.
 
  • Sad
Reactions: 1 user
You don't know if banning chokeholds, ending qualified immunity, allowing justified prosecutions against police, and/or ending no-knock warrants will be a net positive? Ok pal.
All sounds nice on paper. Until you realize you can't find anyone to actually be a police officer anymore and we're back to wild west, or, worse, the military starts taking on law enforcement role.

I hope you're right. But just keep believing in yourself and the righteous goodness of humanity and it will all work out just fine.
 
All sounds nice on paper. Until you realize you can't find anyone to actually be a police officer anymore and we're back to wild west, or, worse, the military starts taking on law enforcement role.

I hope you're right. But just keep believing in yourself and the righteous goodness of humanity and it will all work out just fine.

Lol, the guy who thinks police reform will lead to judge dredd becoming nonfiction is pretending to be the rational one.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
You don't know if banning chokeholds, ending qualified immunity, allowing justified prosecutions against police, and/or ending no-knock warrants will be a net positive? Ok pal.

Why are no knock warrants even in place to begin with? No knock warrants should be banned for good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Why are no knock warrants even in place to begin with? No knock warrants should be banned for good.

Because announcing your presence before entering could afford time for people to hide/destroy evidence or otherwise evade law enforcement.

I agree that the potential for abuse is high however.
 
just want to highlight some cultural differences we aussies have.

in Melbourne (population about 5 million) , there is concern about a second wave - they are getting about 20 cases per day and some community transmission for the last week.

The state government asked the federal government to send the army to help.
1000 army personnel will be sent - 850 to help with hotel quarantine, and 150 in medical/logistics/testing roles.

one of the city's two major newspapers has it as their second story, the other it doesnt rate a mention.
the general attitude in the community will be - "great, thanks for the help".
20 cases a day for a city of 5 million? I'd like to provide you some perspective. my city is a little over 200k and we are seeing anywhere from 50-100 cases a day currently.


Beijing , population 21 million, is shutting down because they had 27 cases in a day. If we had 27 cases in my city (1/10 the size) we’d be patting ourselves on the back and celebrating.


Schools Shut in Beijing as Coronavirus Flares
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Beijing , population 21 million, is shutting down because they had 27 cases in a day. If we had 27 cases in my city (1/10 the size) we’d be patting ourselves on the back and celebrating.


Schools Shut in Beijing as Coronavirus Flares

if steroids prove to be effective in reducing the covid deaths, does the number of cases still matter even when death rate goes very low if not near zero?
 
It's apparent you really have an issue with reading comprehension and arguing against things noone said. You should work on that.

Uh huh. You've pretty much said implementing police reform could lead to no police, anarchy/the wild west, and military martial law, so while you didn't literally use a judge dredd analogy, your perceived worst case scenario is pretty much the same fantasy nonetheless (or are you one of those ppl who thinks CHAZ is gonna pop up nationwide overnight the minute states pass basic, widely agreed upon reforms?). Be less disingenuous the next time you want to spew out absurd scenarios and then claim you didn't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
if steroids prove to be effective in reducing the covid deaths, does the number of cases still matter even when death rate goes very low if not near zero?

Is this a koan?

For those who get severe illness, the death rate does not go very low. Decadron reduced mortality by 20-30%.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
if steroids prove to be effective in reducing the covid deaths, does the number of cases still matter even when death rate goes very low if not near zero?

even if steroids reduce deaths an increased number of cases still leads to increased number of hospitalized and increased numbers in the ICU. From what I’ve seen if you’re in the ICU from covid19 even if you don’t die you’re going to be there for a looooong time. All of this puts a strain on the hospital system as caring for covid19 patient is extremely labor intensive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
even if steroids reduce deaths an increased number of cases still leads to increased number of hospitalized and increased numbers in the ICU. From what I’ve seen if you’re in the ICU from covid19 even if you don’t die you’re going to be there for a looooong time. All of this puts a strain on the hospital system as caring for covid19 patient is extremely labor intensive.

That's true. Thoughts on the following from the Recovery trial?

"Allocation to dexamethasone was associated with a shorter duration of hospitalization than usual care (median 12 days vs. 13 days) and a greater probability of discharge within 28 days (rate ratio 1.11 [95% CI 1.04 to 1.19]; p=0.002) (Table 2) with the greatest effect seen among those receiving invasive mechanical ventilation at baseline (test for trend p=0.002) (Figure S3a)."

It may not look much but feels like a helpful first step at least.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Dude, the problem with the Teddy Roosevelt statue isn't Teddy Roosevelt.

Have you even looked at it or are you just cutting and pasting talking points?

Here, I'll save you the 30 seconds of GIS effort:

25c2981e-4c50-4907-998f-cfaf20df3c66-large16x9_GettyImages1251355082.jpg

Yes, I am familiar with the statue of TR and the 2 allegorical figures that stand beside him representing the 2 continents of North America and Africa (a place TR extensively traveled). It's a form of art. Therefore, like with all art, viewers interpret what they see and what it means or provokes in themselves.

There have been complaints about this statue in the past. The museum actually set up an exhibit which explained the design elements, how they apply to TR's life and work, and tried to inform and teach (the purpose and mission of a museum). I applaud them for their past efforts. However, some people still don't like the statue and what they interpret it to represent, so they complain. And, IMO, in this time of over reactions, mob rule, and vigilantes destroying public and private property, the museum has decided to be pre-emptive and remove the statue (whether that is the best decision or not). Perhaps this is truly the only way to save the art from destruction.

My point being that when people say "Take down the Confederate statues and put them in a museum to use as a teaching tool," we can look to the example of the TR statue to see how well that goes. Even with an exhibit specially created to teach about the artist, similar allegorical statues of that artist time, the life and work of TR, etc etc, it still wasn't good enough for those hell bent on its removal from sight.

There are those who insist there is a "hierarchical" nature of the statue which implies white supremacy. The triangular shape of the statue was a common symmetrical design technique used. Still is. TR was an avid naturalist, conservationist, and equestrian, therefore he is depicted on horseback, which visually raises him up. One could argue that as former Governor of NY and POTUS, the statue was designed and built to honor him. As honoree he is front and center. It doesn't make logical sense to me that a man who was born in 1853, was 10 years old when Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, who grew up in NY, who was POTUS in the early 20th century, would depict an African-American citizen as dressed in traditional African garb. In TR's lifetime (1853-1919), this would be anachronistic and his life and legacy as Gov and POTUS had nothing to do with slavery. Therefore, the belief that it is a US slave doesn't add up to me.

Art is both objective and subjective. There are some that go to a museum, glance around the room, scan until a color or an element catches their eye. They approach art as something that will provoke them one way or another emotionally. We were given this explanation as the purpose for art back in the 1980's with Mapplethorpe's "sex art" and Serrano's "Piss Christ." "It's art!" they said. "It's freedom of expression!" they said. "The artist's intent is to provoke emotional reactions!" they said. "It doesn't matter if certain people are offended!" they said. "Get over it!" they said.

Then there are some that go to a museum, and walk slowly from piece to piece, whether it visually strikes them or not, reading every placard, attempting to learn something about a piece or an artist that they never knew. It's a more cerebral experience--both emotional and intellectual--and perhaps one reaction is altered by the other. Perhaps you don't understand or even like a piece, but then after reading about it and what it represents you come, perhaps not to love the piece, but to appreciate the piece for what it was meant to be.

The museum exists for both types of people. The world exists for both types of people. The different types need to peacefully coexist. But how do you satisfy the second group of people (emotional and intellectual) if the first group of people (emotional) gets to dictate what is visible, what is acceptable? Like I said, I find the idea that the Confederate statues be removed and displayed in a museum to be an acceptable idea. I stand by my statement that the radicals, anarchists, and vigilantes would still fight against that, and like the Museum of Natural History, the museums will placate
and not educate.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Texas closing.


But I don't understand. Just three weeks ago, on June 3rd, "Abbott emphasized that the new cases are "largely the result of isolated hot spots in nursing homes, jails, and meat packing plants." Those places made up more than 45% of the new cases over about the last week, according to his office."

I mean, only 55% of cases were still from diffuse community spread and only thousands and thousands of people warned Abbott that early this month was time to tap the brakes, not pump the gas. Seriously, how could the governor have known?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
What happens if courts and juries acquit Chauvin and the police give him a job?

I'd be very surprised to see him get reemployed by any place other than Minneapolis. He's too radioactive.

If acquitted, he's entitled to back pay (if he was initially fired, not a voluntary resignation) and his position back despite all the drama which would surely accompany that. Civil service employees are difficult to fire once they finish new employee probation. It can be done but takes a mountain of paperwork, due process, grievance, etc. IF he gets his job back the department would be smart to offer him a job out of the spotlight in an office, and he'd probably take it. He's already eligible to start drawing a pension at age 55 without working any more.
 
I'd be very surprised to see him get reemployed by any place other than Minneapolis. He's too radioactive.

If acquitted, he's entitled to back pay (if he was initially fired, not a voluntary resignation) and his position back despite all the drama which would surely accompany that. Civil service employees are difficult to fire once they finish new employee probation. It can be done but takes a mountain of paperwork, due process, grievance, etc. IF he gets his job back the department would be smart to offer him a job out of the spotlight in an office, and he'd probably take it. He's already eligible to start drawing a pension at age 55 without working any more.

Being acquitted of criminal charges doesn't affect the ability of his department to fire him. They have the ability to make the argument that he used excessive force, demonstrated unprofessional behavior, or whatever other argument they may wish. He is also not entitled to back pay.

Now if the union file a complaint or there was a civil suit arguing that he was fired without cause and he won that, then yes, he would be entitled to his job back and back pay.

*Based on my years working as a Union employee
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Being acquitted of criminal charges doesn't affect the ability of his department to fire him. They have the ability to make the argument that he used excessive force, demonstrated unprofessional behavior, or whatever other argument they may wish. He is also not entitled to back pay.

Now if the union file a complaint or there was a civil suit arguing that he was fired without cause and he won that, then yes, he would be entitled to his job back and back pay.

*Based on my years working as a Union employee
Good points, thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Top