The Ultimate 2020 Election / Politics / General News Thread

[Splenda88]

I am predicting a small scale of civil war regardless who wins...

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[chessknt]

Are you sure this “silent majority” isn’t just a loud minority?

As an independent, the only thing I’m seeing is Trump mishandling multiple national crises. His management of coronavirus has made us the laughingstock of the world at best, and at worst has driven us to economic ruin while killing hundreds of thousands of people and ceding global leadership to our greatest rival in China. He yells law and order, but he has failed to control the unrest across this nation thus far. Instead of calming tensions and proposing plans, he continues with the divisive rhetoric and thuggish threats that are reminiscent of a third-world dictator.

What the heck makes you think that things will all of a sudden be different with a second term?

Don't forget to pile on the fact that a second term will signal that he is indeed above the law--a unitary executive with unlimited power who doesn't have to answer to a spineless Congress or a stacked supreme court (especially after rbg goes).

The checks and balances the moderate Republicans think will stop him only exist to the extent they are enforced and I am absolutely convinced they won't be. I'm already afraid of what he will do to stay in power if he loses and whether or not a peaceful transition of power will occur--imagine 4 more years of executive proclamations, Hatch violations, raiding emergency funds for political projects, and the trade wars that we are winning.

 

[AMEHigh]

What the heck makes you think that things will all of a sudden be different with a second term?

Exactly.
I gave up long ago in regards to understanding logic in trump supporters.

And as a reminder there have been dozens of violent acts tied directly to "in the name of trump," based on his racism, lies and rhetoric, yet none have been found tied to Obama or Bush over the years. I think that pretty much says it all.

'No Blame?' ABC News finds 54 cases invoking 'Trump' in connection with violence, threats, alleged assaults.

President Donald Trump insists he deserves no blame for divisions in America.

www.google.com

 

[nimbus]

I watched the videos on Kyle Rittenhouse. I saw the supposed evidence of his murders and his interview prior to the events. What I saw was a scared kid who was afraid for his life. I saw the rioters trying to take his rifle/AR15 by force and engage in hostile behavior with Kyle. The kid overreacted to the situation.

Kyle made some poor decisions including the one to join the vigilantes in protecting businesses.

If I was on a jury I would not vote to convict Kyle of murder. I would consider a much lesser sentence of homicide or another offense. Just like in the Floyd case the evidence isn’t there for a murder conviction once all the facts are exposed.

While many of you may disagree with me I still don’t see the evidence of police racism against blacks. It isn’t there. I would expect white men to be treated the exact same way as those black men were by the police. While they were all low level criminals the fact remains they broke the law and resisted arrest. I do not condone the excessive force by police but like much of America I see no justification in the rioting and looting going on in our cities.

If Biden loses this election the cause will be the lawlessness allowed to persist in our cities. The vast majority of Americans are opposed to the rioters and looters; unlike Biden a Trump victory is offering them security and safety by restoring law and order across this nation. The election is just as much about safety and security as it is Covid 19.

The silent majority is real. They will be voting for Trump again this election

Funny that boy is “defending” himself a lot these days.

 

[vector2]

Don't forget to pile on the fact that a second term will signal that he is indeed above the law--a unitary executive with unlimited power who doesn't have to answer to a spineless Congress or a stacked supreme court (especially after rbg goes).

The checks and balances the moderate Republicans think will stop him only exist to the extent they are enforced and I am absolutely convinced they won't be. I'm already afraid of what he will do to stay in power if he loses and whether or not a peaceful transition of power will occur--imagine 4 more years of executive proclamations, Hatch violations, raiding emergency funds for political projects, and the trade wars that we are winning.

I was talking to a couple of my colleagues who are my age (mid 30s) and it's disheartening to hear that even though they're not voting for trump, they're not voting Biden either. I think at almost any other time in history it would've been fine to just vote your conscience and go third party. GOP was gonna GOP and dem was gonna dem, but I dont think anyone on either side was going to permanently "break" the country in an irreparable way.

From @pgg posts earlier this year I get the impression from him that his opinion is that even with trump, the underlying mechanisms and machinery that ensure a peaceful transitions of power and that ensure that a president and his administration can't just engage in criminal behavior with impunity are both intact. But if you ask me today if these things are true I would say...kinda. Trump pretty obviously solicited help from a foreign power for the election using a quid pro quo and that did not rise to the level of impeachment. Ok, sure. However, I'm pretty comfortable saying that a Watergate level offense would not rise to the level of an impeachable offense given the comments made by GOP congressmen, senators, and trump's legal team. And really, no matter what offense or felony trump is guilty of committing, the right wing media machine will immediately go maximum overdrive so that any evidence will be called into question as doctored or faked, or it will be ignored in favor of whataboutism etc.

Seriously, just do the thought experiment. You think the senate is going to be the calm and deliberative bulwark which checks the president? A few years ago Lindsey Graham is on tape during an interview saying "Joe Biden is as good a man as God ever created" .....and now he's one of the ones leading the charge against him with cries about Ukraine- a tactic straight out of the GRU's playbook. How many Inspectors General has trump gotten rid of? One? Two? Nope. He has pushed out no less than five IGs, something which is obviously unprecedented. Do we have a DOJ (and thus FBI) which has any semblance of separation or independence from the executive? I think even Republicans after seeing what Barr did to the Mueller report and what Barr did with Roger Stone will acknowledge that he's trump's lawyer first, America's lawyer second.

We are at a point now where although nothing is extensively or permanently broken, we are at about 30-40% of the way there as far as breaking enough norms and violating enough laws where if trump won a second term (which ultimately would be an affirmation of everything he's done) there's no telling what will happen in 2024. Believe me, I know it sounds ridiculous, but the Constitution (and really, laws in general) are just abstract ideas which require us to all come together and to share enough ideals for them to have power. The Chairman of the JCOS has already said " In the event of a dispute over some aspect of the elections, by law U.S. courts and the U.S. Congress are required to resolve any disputes, not the U.S. Military..." And just look at what has happened to the courts and congress over the last 4 years. Institutions require constant defending and vigilance, and the belief that trump and the infrastructure he has put in place are just a continuation of the status quo might be the most dangerous thought out there currently.

 

[pgg]

Funny that boy is “defending” himself a lot these days.

Do we want to bring the character of people involved in these newsworthy incidents to the forefront, or not? Is that really the tack we want to take?

Jacob Blake is a rapist* and George Floyd served time in prison for aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon but I think we ought to agree that their previous violent behavior and well-documented general douchebaggery shouldn't be cited as some kind of a "character is destiny" excuse for the way they were killed.

Kyle is a tool all right. And stupid ... instigating or escalating an after-school fistfight puts him squarely in the overlapping region of the famous "stupid people / stupid prizes" Venn diagram, and what kind of ***** shows up armed and unasked to "defend" property that isn't his? Probably a guy who wouldn't mind provoking another fight. He may well be a murderer who gets to spend the rest of his life in prison. Or he may have actually been acting in self defense. Seems unlikely but stranger things have happened.


* allegedly a rapist of course ... he's pending trial and bail was posted for him from his hospital room

 

[pgg]

From @pgg posts earlier this year I get the impression from him that his opinion is that even with trump, the underlying mechanisms and machinery that ensure a peaceful transitions of power and that ensure that a president and his administration can't just engage in criminal behavior with impunity are both intact.

MMmmm ... yes I'm still convinced if Trump loses he'll exit the White House on schedule and there'll be a peaceful transition of power. I think it's silly to propose with a straight face that he'll somehow extend his term if not re-elected.

Reps. Slotkin and Sherrill asking General Milley (Chair of the JCOS) to go on record stating that (obviously, obviously) the armed forces would not have a role in resolving election disputes was pure partisan hackery and political theater, but hey there's an election going on, so that kind of behavior is to be expected. Of course the military won't intervene to alter election results or keep a president in power. It's offensive and insulting to even suggest it.

As for, how should I put it politely, the DOJ checking presidential power and investigating executive branch misconduct as an independent body, that machinery has some wrenches in it, and I don't have the faith I used to that the DOJ would or could effectively police individuals in the executive branch that aren't the president. (Of course, with regard to a president, it's not the DOJ's job to investigate, try, impeach, and convict ... it's the House and Senate with that job, and even today nothing's stopping them except 51%+ of the elected persons in those bodies.)

 

[vector2]

Reps. Slotkin and Sherrill asking General Milley (Chair of the JCOS) to go on record stating that (obviously, obviously) the armed forces would not have a role in resolving election disputes was pure partisan hackery and political theater, but hey there's an election going on, so that kind of behavior is to be expected. Of course the military won't intervene to alter election results or keep a president in power. It's offensive and insulting to even suggest it.

The implication was whether Milley would intervene to remove trump if trump won't leave, not whether Milley would purposefully and proactively keep him in power.

MMmmm ... yes I'm still convinced if Trump loses he'll exit the White House on schedule and there'll be a peaceful transition of power. I think it's silly to propose with a straight face that he'll somehow extend his term if not re-elected.
...
As for, how should I put it politely, the DOJ checking presidential power and investigating executive branch misconduct as an independent body, that machinery has some wrenches in it, and I don't have the faith I used to that the DOJ would or could effectively police individuals in the executive branch that aren't the president. (Of course, with regard to a president, it's not the DOJ's job to investigate, try, impeach, and convict ... it's the House and Senate with that job, and even today nothing's stopping them except 51%+ of the elected persons in those bodies.)

If he loses this year, sure- I also agree he will leave with minimal fuss as long as the margin of defeat is sufficiently large. Short of impeachment and conviction in the Senate, there is pretty much no bigger repudiation in American political life than failing to win re-election and becoming a one-term president. Even though Carter and HW had complex presidencies and were facing a multitude of issues, inevitably the first word that pops into one's mind when thinking about them is "loser." Trump losing this fall is not what I'm worried about; what happens if he wins re-election and thus gets affirmation is the thing that gives me pause.

You seem particularly unworried though about unprecedented broken norms vis a vis financial separation and conflicts of interests, tax returns, abject nepotism, Hatch Act violations, soliciting foreign election influence, interference in DOJ investigations, firing all the IGs, firing US attorneys without cause, blanket non-compliance with lawful subpoenas, instructing his ODNI that he no longer has to brief the House and Senate ICs in person and answer their questions, trying to cripple the post office to making voting by mail harder, and on and on and on. I find that strange for a couple reasons. One is that I've seen your near-essay posts regarding 2A, the Constitution/originalism, SCOTUS cases etc, and someone could only care that much about those things if they have a deep respect for norms, the law, and the institutions which uphold the law. The second is that you've never struck me as being short-sighted, but rather you have vigilance now and try to have some insight into the long game about various topics whether it be politics or the stock market or bitcoin or whatever.

You know as well as I do that institutions don't just change overnight. The current polarization in American politics didn't just show up this morning. It began in earnest almost a decade ago with the Tea Party, but even still it's probably part of a larger shift that has been occurring since the mid 90s. Four years is too short a time for trump to permanently break any of the core mechanisms of American government, but make no mistake, he has already started chipping away at the foundation. And without vigilance, you wake up one day and all of a sudden those little chips have turned into a massive, gaping chasm.

If trump wins in 2020, do I see him planting a crown on his head in 2024 and everyone going along with it? No, that is ridiculous. What's not ridiculous with a trump re-election is the assumption that he will have full reign to solicit, with impunity, election interference both foreign and domestic, legal and illegal, for the next fascist-lite oligarch of his choosing. What's not ridiculous is the idea that the courts could be stacked enough, congress could be made feckless enough, gerrymandering/voter suppression could be made extreme enough, and the propaganda machine could be made powerful enough to ensure that a "free and fair" election exists only in name. The idea of that gives you a good chuckle, right? And yet we've all been having a discussion the last couple pages where highly educated people are convinced that Joe Biden is an anarchist.

 

[chessknt]

MMmmm ... yes I'm still convinced if Trump loses he'll exit the White House on schedule and there'll be a peaceful transition of power. I think it's silly to propose with a straight face that he'll somehow extend his term if not re-elected.

Reps. Slotkin and Sherrill asking General Milley (Chair of the JCOS) to go on record stating that (obviously, obviously) the armed forces would not have a role in resolving election disputes was pure partisan hackery and political theater, but hey there's an election going on, so that kind of behavior is to be expected. Of course the military won't intervene to alter election results or keep a president in power. It's offensive and insulting to even suggest it.

As for, how should I put it politely, the DOJ checking presidential power and investigating executive branch misconduct as an independent body, that machinery has some wrenches in it, and I don't have the faith I used to that the DOJ would or could effectively police individuals in the executive branch that aren't the president. (Of course, with regard to a president, it's not the DOJ's job to investigate, try, impeach, and convict ... it's the House and Senate with that job, and even today nothing's stopping them except 51%+ of the elected persons in those bodies.)

I don't think it's completely off base to assume that Trump won't try to cling to power if he loses. He has already set the stage with claims of voting fraud, stopping intelligence briefings on election security, 'steal the election' slogan etc to preemptively legitimize the claim. He has a history of ignoring the law and using the court system to litigate every subpoena to the supreme court which, as lower courts have done, buy the line of bull**** on electoral fraud and require an investigation (led by agencies under Trump's control of course) that would take so long as to effectively invalidate the results in enough states to force a contingent election which he would probably win.

Seems far-fetched and if it were to happen there would be clear consequences right? Except what can we do if it happens? We know Congress won't do anything and protesting in the streets will be labelled as rioting and people will start getting shot. We can all keep laughing away how unlikely x y or z are but the erosion of institutional protection of our democracy over the past 20 years is very real as evidenced by the Trump presidency and this election is going to be a huge stress test.

 

[Southpaw]

MMmmm ... yes I'm still convinced if Trump loses he'll exit the White House on schedule and there'll be a peaceful transition of power. I think it's silly to propose with a straight face that he'll somehow extend his term if not re-elected.

Reps. Slotkin and Sherrill asking General Milley (Chair of the JCOS) to go on record stating that (obviously, obviously) the armed forces would not have a role in resolving election disputes was pure partisan hackery and political theater, but hey there's an election going on, so that kind of behavior is to be expected. Of course the military won't intervene to alter election results or keep a president in power. It's offensive and insulting to even suggest it.

As for, how should I put it politely, the DOJ checking presidential power and investigating executive branch misconduct as an independent body, that machinery has some wrenches in it, and I don't have the faith I used to that the DOJ would or could effectively police individuals in the executive branch that aren't the president. (Of course, with regard to a president, it's not the DOJ's job to investigate, try, impeach, and convict ... it's the House and Senate with that job, and even today nothing's stopping them except 51%+ of the elected persons in those bodies.)

I think the system is large enough, and intact enough, that if Trump loses there will be a peaceful transition. For now. I'm not convinced such a peaceful transition could occur in 4 years. And it's shocking for me to even remotely think that, in America. But alas, I do. I think peaceful is a relative term, and there will be elements of chaos that occur both proximally and distally. To suggest otherwise would be to push aside, or ignore, the extreme element that causes a white nationalist MAGA Trumper to drive their car into a crowd of peaceful protestors (Charlottesville), an equally but slightly different crazy MAGA Trumper to arm himself, patrol a US city, and shoot people in what was an extremely predictable outcome given the nutso pieces inserted into that chaotic situation, or a MAGA Trumper who almost surely will be elected to Congress who thinks Barak Obama staged Charlottesville, Hillary Clinton ran a child pedophilia ring out of a pizza place in DC, and that the entirety of our legally elected Democratic arm of the US Congress/Senate is involved in child porn. Or something like that. I'm having a hard time keeping all these crazy MAGA folks straight these days. However, whether you're watching this all unfold up close or from afar, it's concerning.

Trump and his millions of twitter disciples won't exit the world stage peacefully or immediately. To suggest otherwise is to ignore the extreme, malignant narcissism of Trump and the self flaggelation that he gets when he knows people like what he says or does.

 

[pgg]

The implication was whether Milley would intervene to remove trump if trump won't leave, not whether Milley would purposefully and proactively keep him in power.



If he loses this year, sure- I also agree he will leave with minimal fuss as long as the margin of defeat is sufficiently large. Short of impeachment and conviction in the Senate, there is pretty much no bigger repudiation in American political life than failing to win re-election and becoming a one-term president. Even though Carter and HW had complex presidencies and were facing a multitude of issues, inevitably the first word that pops into one's mind when thinking about them is "loser." Trump losing this fall is not what I'm worried about; what happens if he wins re-election and thus gets affirmation is the thing that gives me pause.

You seem particularly unworried though about unprecedented broken norms vis a vis financial separation and conflicts of interests, tax returns, abject nepotism, Hatch Act violations, soliciting foreign election influence, interference in DOJ investigations, firing all the IGs, firing US attorneys without cause, blanket non-compliance with lawful subpoenas, instructing his ODNI that he no longer has to brief the House and Senate ICs in person and answer their questions, trying to cripple the post office to making voting by mail harder, and on and on and on. I find that strange for a couple reasons. One is that I've seen your near-essay posts regarding 2A, the Constitution/originalism, SCOTUS cases etc, and someone could only care that much about those things if they have a deep respect for norms, the law, and the institutions which uphold the law. The second is that you've never struck me as being short-sighted, but rather you have vigilance now and try to have some insight into the long game about various topics whether it be politics or the stock market or bitcoin or whatever.

You know as well as I do that institutions don't just change overnight. The current polarization in American politics didn't just show up this morning. It began in earnest almost a decade ago with the Tea Party, but even still it's probably part of a larger shift that has been occurring since the mid 90s. Four years is too short a time for trump to permanently break any of the core mechanisms of American government, but make no mistake, he has already started chipping away at the foundation. And without vigilance, you wake up one day and all of a sudden those little chips have turned into a massive, gaping chasm.

If trump wins in 2020, do I see him planting a crown on his head in 2024 and everyone going along with it? No, that is ridiculous. What's not ridiculous with a trump re-election is the assumption that he will have full reign to solicit, with impunity, election interference both foreign and domestic, legal and illegal, for the next fascist-lite oligarch of his choosing. What's not ridiculous is the idea that the courts could be stacked enough, congress could be made feckless enough, gerrymandering/voter suppression could be made extreme enough, and the propaganda machine could be made powerful enough to ensure that a "free and fair" election exists only in name. The idea of that gives you a good chuckle, right? And yet we've all been having a discussion the last couple pages where highly educated people are convinced that Joe Biden is an anarchist.

I completely agree that if he is re-elected that he will interpret that as affirmation and approval of everything he has done, and he will double down on and expand it all. The question posed was whether or not the rest of the government and in particular various executive branch institutions are broken now, to he point that our elections and democracy are at risk, and I think that answer is solidly no.

It hardly matters to me whether those two Reps were asking if the armed forces would intervene on behalf of any particular side or not. Of course not. The question was rhetorical political theater and I simply resent the military being dragged into this.

Whether Congress is or becomes feckless enough to let any executive run wild is a separate issue. Everyone in the House and about 1/3 of the Senate are up for election this year.

And as for stacking the courts, by and large his appointees the last few years have been qualified. Of course they're conservative. The 9th Circuit has been historically "stacked" to the left, and the right has somehow lived with it. If Trump appoints another 4 years of right-leaning judges, the left will live with that too and things will be OK. I don't find any substance to the notion that the Gorsuchs and Kavanaughs and lower federal judges he appoints are less competent or more in the pocket of the party that appointed them than the Kagans and Sotomayors are in the pocket of theirs.

I do not like the overall direction we are being led in and I will not vote for Trump/Pence. I also can't make myself vote for Biden/Harris. I think we'll be OK in the grand scheme of things whoever wins. Our country and our government isn't just one guy.

 

[pgg]

Trump and his millions of twitter disciples won't exit the world stage peacefully or immediately. To suggest otherwise is to ignore the extreme, malignant narcissism of Trump and the self flaggelation that he gets when he knows people like what he says or does.

I guess we just disagree here. If he loses there'll be a media exultation and Twitter meltdown that'll be remembered for the ages, but he WILL walk out of the White House and he WILL be replaced on time. And if there is extremist fringe right wing violence and rioting the police will handle it.

 

[Goro]

I guess we just disagree here. If he loses there'll be a media exultation and Twitter meltdown that'll be remembered for the ages, but he WILL walk out of the White House and he WILL be replaced on time. And if there is extremist fringe right wing violence and rioting the police will handle it.

You guys have had enough Psych exposure to remember narcissist personality syndrome, right?

So what would a malignant narcissist with sociopathic tendencies do in that situation???
@Mad Jack ???

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You guys have had enough Psych exposure to remember narcissist personality syndrome, right?

So what would a malignant narcissist with sociopathic tendencies do in that situation???
@Mad Jack ???

Rail on Twitter and then go back to NYC

 

[BLADEMDA]

You guys have had enough Psych exposure to remember narcissist personality syndrome, right?

So what would a malignant narcissist with sociopathic tendencies do in that situation???
@Mad Jack ???

Trump will say the Dems "stole the election" but will leave office. He has described the White House a a "dump" and he has plenty of money to play golf most days of the week. This idea that Trump won't transfer power like every President before him is simply absurd. Trump is an obese white male in his mid/late 70's. He should actually be glad to leave office and focus on his health. I can assure the Trump haters and TDS people on SDN that if Biden wins the election then he will assume the Presidency of the USA.

 

[Goro]

Rail on Twitter and then go back to NYC

I think it's Florida now, but I hope that your clinical acumen is up to par on this call.

 

[pgg]

You guys have had enough Psych exposure to remember narcissist personality syndrome, right?

So what would a malignant narcissist with sociopathic tendencies do in that situation???
@Mad Jack ???

Again, he's just one guy, and absent the positional power he holds now, which evaporates with the inauguration of a new president, he's just a guy. A guy with a big megaphone and a bunch of Twitter followers, but still just a guy who'll be dropped like 3rd period French by the GOP about seven seconds after he isn't president any more.

There isn't a an Elder Staff Of Power with a big magical crystal on top that presidents get to hold, that one might try to keep to cling to the throne. When terms end, presidents leave. Some more gracefully than others, but they leave.

 

[vector2]

I completely agree that if he is re-elected that he will interpret that as affirmation and approval of everything he has done, and he will double down on and expand it all. The question posed was whether or not the rest of the government and in particular various executive branch institutions are broken now, to he point that our elections and democracy are at risk, and I think that answer is solidly no.

This is really the crux of the issue that I can't get my head around. You know that he is breaking norms in ways that they have never broken....but yet you think that there will be no consequences (or at least none worth taking seriously)? This is not about whether trump leaves if he loses in 2020. The fight is about rigging the game so he (or most likely his chosen successor) can't lose in 2024. The problem with many of the rules governing Articles I, II, and III and the creation/separation of powers is that so much of the crucially important behavior that we count on from those elected to government and their appointees/subordinates is based on tradition, precedent and decorum. Obviously none of which the current POTUS respects. You of all people, as someone who speaks at length about the value of precedent in relation to court cases, really think the best way to approach this degree of executive branch precedent breaking is with a "meh, life goes on" ?

For instance, in the case of the Inspectors General:

" In April and May 2020, United States President Donald Trump dismissed the inspectors general (IGs) of five cabinet departments in the space of six weeks.[1][2] The inspectors general removed were Michael K. Atkinson, Intelligence, on April 3; Glenn Fine (acting), Defense, April 7; Christi Grimm (acting), Health and Human Services, May 1; Mitch Behm (acting), Transportation, May 15; and Steve Linick, State, May 15.[3] In four of the cases the announcement was made late on a Friday night in a classic Friday news dump.[4] In several cases the fired IGs had taken an action which Trump disliked, so that the dismissals were widely described as "retaliation".[5] In two other cases, questions were raised about whether the dismissals related to ongoing IG investigations into the conduct of the cabinet secretary in charge of that department.[6][7] The cumulative firings were often described as a "purge"[8] or as a "war on watchdogs".[9][10] "

It seems like trump has been president for so long that I can barely remember what pre-escalator life was like. POTUS getting rid of an IG is technically legal, but I'm pretty sure a purge like this with obviously corrupt intent would've been 100% totally and utterly unimaginable in the beforetimes. Like it would've just been running on the nightly news indefinitely, Congressional hearings, impeachment, the whole shebang. Nowadays, a gutting of an important part of the oversight apparatus is just a Friday newsdump or two and we move on to the next thing. You state that "the rest of the government and in particular various executive branch institutions" are not broken to the point that elections and democracy are at risk, but I think the fact that trump can fire 5 IGs in less than 2 months with impunity has already proven this assertion wrong, at least in part. As I said, it doesn't all happen at once- it's a series of small cracks.

Just do the thought experiment. It starts with getting rid of no less than 5 IGs. No problem there. Then re-election. And then a slow but thorough top to bottom purging of the DoD, DOJ, and DHS- not just at the political appointment level, but all the way down to senior career employees. If there is even a hint of anti-trumpiness in the US attorneys offices, intelligence community, federal law enforcement community, or military leadership, *POOF* gone. Look at what happened to Vindman and his brother, who wasn't actually part of anything related to the impeachment. No consequences for that. Gone. What's congress going to do? Subpoena trump? Write a strongly worded letter? Laughable. Next is shoring up voter suppression. Obviously trump will proclaim that voter fraud is a widespread problem that is much more terrible than anyone could've imagined. And now the problem is so serious that Barr needs to send federal DHS monitors to "watch" polling places in swing states. States don't like it and file a suit that reaches SCOTUS. SCOTUS rules with the states but trump doesn't stop because SCOTUS rulings are merely suggestions. After all, trump's DOJ is the enforcement mechanism.

It's all ridiculous until it's not. You say it's just a guy with a megaphone and some twitter followers, but consider for a moment how ridiculous Qanon is. And then consider that this fall will mark the election of the first Qanon congresswoman. But even if we don't end up in some nightmare Putin-like president for life scenario, trump has exposed deep weaknesses in a system based merely on decorum, and the way in which he has exploited those weaknesses has set precedents for future POTUSes that they are definitely going to act on for decades to come. I mean, really, we are so close to having a president who for all intents and purposes is above the law, and I just remain half-dejected and half-shocked that you're not worried. At the end of the day, we respect the oversight of Congress of because of faith in the justness of the Constitution, not because Congress is going to send the Sergeant at Arms to arrest POTUS. We respect the decisions of SCOTUS because of faith in the justness of the Constitution, not because we think John Roberts is going to put on a Judge Dredd outfit, march down to 1600 Penn Ave and declare I AM THE LAW. To think that our current system has so much inertia that it can't be broken is to put too much faith in a system that runs mostly on faith. And I think that is a huge blindspot.

 

[deleted126335]

Again, he's just one guy, and absent the positional power he holds now, which evaporates with the inauguration of a new president, he's just a guy. A guy with a big megaphone and a bunch of Twitter followers, but still just a guy who'll be dropped like 3rd period French by the GOP about seven seconds after he isn't president any more.

There isn't a an Elder Staff Of Power with a big magical crystal on top that presidents get to hold, that one might try to keep to cling to the throne. When terms end, presidents leave. Some more gracefully than others, but they leave.

There is a first time for everything.

 

[BLADEMDA]

This is really the crux of the issue that I can't get my head around. You know that he is breaking norms in ways that they have never broken....but yet you think that there will be no consequences (or at least none worth taking seriously)? This is not about whether trump leaves if he loses in 2020. The fight is about rigging the game so he (or most likely his chosen successor) can't lose in 2024. The problem with many of the rules governing Articles I, II, and III and the creation/separation of powers is that so much of the crucially important behavior that we count on from those elected to government and their appointees/subordinates is based on tradition, precedent and decorum. Obviously none of which the current POTUS respects. You of all people, as someone who speaks at length about the value of precedent in relation to court cases, really think the best way to approach this degree of executive branch precedent breaking is with a "meh, life goes on" ?

For instance, in the case of the Inspectors General:

" In April and May 2020, United States President Donald Trump dismissed the inspectors general (IGs) of five cabinet departments in the space of six weeks.[1][2] The inspectors general removed were Michael K. Atkinson, Intelligence, on April 3; Glenn Fine (acting), Defense, April 7; Christi Grimm (acting), Health and Human Services, May 1; Mitch Behm (acting), Transportation, May 15; and Steve Linick, State, May 15.[3] In four of the cases the announcement was made late on a Friday night in a classic Friday news dump.[4] In several cases the fired IGs had taken an action which Trump disliked, so that the dismissals were widely described as "retaliation".[5] In two other cases, questions were raised about whether the dismissals related to ongoing IG investigations into the conduct of the cabinet secretary in charge of that department.[6][7] The cumulative firings were often described as a "purge"[8] or as a "war on watchdogs".[9][10] "

It seems like trump has been president for so long that I can barely remember what pre-escalator life was like. POTUS getting rid of an IG is technically legal, but I'm pretty sure a purge like this with obviously corrupt intent would've been 100% totally and utterly unimaginable in the beforetimes. Like it would've just been running on the nightly news indefinitely, Congressional hearings, impeachment, the whole shebang. Nowadays, a gutting of an important part of the oversight apparatus is just a Friday newsdump or two and we move on to the next thing. You state that "the rest of the government and in particular various executive branch institutions" are not broken to the point that elections and democracy are at risk, but I think the fact that trump can fire 5 IGs in less than 2 months with impunity has already proven this assertion wrong, at least in part. As I said, it doesn't all happen at once- it's a series of small cracks.

Just do the thought experiment. It starts with getting rid of no less than 5 IGs. No problem there. Then re-election. And then a slow but thorough top to bottom purging of the DoD, DOJ, and DHS- not just at the political appointment level, but all the way down to senior career employees. If there is even a hint of anti-trumpiness in the US attorneys offices, intelligence community, federal law enforcement community, or military leadership, *POOF* gone. Look at what happened to Vindman and his brother, who wasn't actually part of anything related to the impeachment. No consequences for that. Gone. What's congress going to do? Subpoena trump? Write a strongly worded letter? Laughable. Next is shoring up voter suppression. Obviously trump will proclaim that voter fraud is a widespread problem that is much more terrible than anyone could've imagined. And now the problem is so serious that Barr needs to send federal DHS monitors to "watch" polling places in swing states. States don't like it and file a suit that reaches SCOTUS. SCOTUS rules with the states but trump doesn't stop because SCOTUS rulings are merely suggestions. After all, trump's DOJ is the enforcement mechanism.

It's all ridiculous until it's not. You say it's just a guy with a megaphone and some twitter followers, but consider for a moment how ridiculous Qanon is. And then consider that this fall will mark the election of the first Qanon congresswoman. But even if we don't end up in some nightmare Putin-like president for life scenario, trump has exposed deep weaknesses in a system based merely on decorum, and the way in which he has exploited those weaknesses has set precedents for future POTUSes that they are definitely going to act on for decades to come. I mean, really, we are so close to having a president who for all intents and purposes is above the law, and I just remain half-dejected and half-shocked that you're not worried. At the end of the day, we respect the oversight of Congress of because of faith in the justness of the Constitution, not because Congress is going to send the Sergeant at Arms to arrest POTUS. We respect the decisions of SCOTUS because of faith in the justness of the Constitution, not because we think John Roberts is going to put on a Judge Dredd outfit, march down to 1600 Penn Ave and declare I AM THE LAW. To think that our current system has so much inertia that it can't be broken is to put too much faith in a system that runs mostly on faith. And I think that is a huge blindspot.

Have you studied history? You sound like a Democrat from the 1860's complaining about Abraham Lincoln who waged an unjust, unconstitutional war on the South. Seriously, these same arguments were used against Lincoln and he really did abuse his power much more than any President in history.

The system will work because Republicans respect the process. We don't wan't 4 more years of Trump if he doesn't win the election. That isn't how the USA works and the vast majority of Republicans will side with the winner of the election even if that person is Joe Biden.

 

[shepardsun]

The system will work because Republicans respect the process.

They respect the process so much they gerrymander districts to ensure inherent demographic advantages, enact draconian and disenfranchising voter ID laws that disproportionately affect minorities, reduce the number of polling places and workers, kneecap the post office, and propagate outright lies about mail-in voting and voter fraud. Man I'd hate to see what it was like if they didn't respect the process.

If Biden loses this election the cause will be the lawlessness allowed to persist in our cities.

I simply don't understand this argument. Vote for President Trump because he's the only one who can restore order from the chaos and disruption that has occurred under President Trump!

 

[vector2]

The system will work because Republicans respect the process.

LOL, "respect the process." Quite the delusional statement considering Republicans are tripping over themselves to reinforce and amplify trump's voter fraud message and voter suppression agenda. Don't forget, they are currently blocking the 2020 John Lewis Voting Rights Act. And what did Mitch say a few years ago about making election day a national holiday so that people could more easily exercise their civic duty? Oh yea, that would be a "Democratic power grab"

Trump is a rule breaker and a non conformist. That’s who he is and always will be

Enough of your euphemisms. Trump is an dishonorable, openly corrupt criminal, and until you and your party accept that fact then there is no real discussion to be had.

 

[vector2]

In other news



--------

Latest averages

RCP

538 to win

 

[Mad Jack]

You guys have had enough Psych exposure to remember narcissist personality syndrome, right?

So what would a malignant narcissist with sociopathic tendencies do in that situation???
@Mad Jack ???

Oh I've got to keep my mouth shut on this one, what with ethics and the like

 

[Goro]

Oh I've got to keep my mouth shut on this one, what with ethics and the like

Screw the Goldwater Rule!

 

[Arch Guillotti]

The system will work because Republicans respect the process.

Blade. You are a smart guy. Why must you gaslight?

 

[Southpaw]

Have you studied history? You sound like a Democrat from the 1860's complaining about Abraham Lincoln who waged an unjust, unconstitutional war on the South. Seriously, these same arguments were used against Lincoln and he really did abuse his power much more than any President in history.

The system will work because Republicans respect the process. We don't wan't 4 more years of Trump if he doesn't win the election. That isn't how the USA works and the vast majority of Republicans will side with the winner of the election even if that person is Joe Biden.

Oh. My. God.

 

[chessknt]

Again, he's just one guy, and absent the positional power he holds now, which evaporates with the inauguration of a new president, he's just a guy. A guy with a big megaphone and a bunch of Twitter followers, but still just a guy who'll be dropped like 3rd period French by the GOP about seven seconds after he isn't president any more.

There isn't a an Elder Staff Of Power with a big magical crystal on top that presidents get to hold, that one might try to keep to cling to the throne. When terms end, presidents leave. Some more gracefully than others, but they leave.

We are witnessing the fall of a great power

Just how rotten is the United States' political system? The answer shouldn't surprise you.

www.canberratimes.com.au

I'll allow this author to highlight another's works and draw a comparison to the ussr.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Oh. My. God.

Your Conspiracy theories just get bigger and bigger each day. If Trump loses the election there will be a peaceful transfer of power and then you can return to your delusional view of a better country through socialism without Trump. But, the GOP will still be there to oppose the power grab by the Federal government over our lives.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Representative Adam Smith, the Democratic chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, told me that he once spoke with a senior White House official and asked about Trump’s intentions in the event of a defeat. “I said, ‘There’s a lot of concern that if your boss loses he’s not going to leave,’” Smith said. “And he said, ‘No, that’s ridiculous. Of course he would.’” Smith wasn’t reassured. “There’s a zero percent chance that he would gracefully transfer power,” he told me. “The best we can hope for is that he would ungracefully transfer power.”

Trump Could Still Break Democracy’s Biggest Norm

Some of the president’s opponents fear that he’ll refuse to leave the White House if he loses the election. Here’s why.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Your Conspiracy theories just get bigger and bigger each day. If Trump loses the election there will be a peaceful transfer of power and then you can return to your delusional view of a better country through socialism without Trump. But, the GOP will still be there to oppose the power grab by the Federal government over our lives.

Blade. Get a grip. The GOP embraces conspiracy theories. Let the lefties have our fun.

 

[vector2]

The GOP is running a Congressional candidate in the GA- 14th - a candidate who is essentially a shoe-in in a deep red district - who has said:

1. The Trump presidency presents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to take out a global cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles

2. There are doubts as to whether the 2017 Vegas shooter acted alone

3. George Soros is a nazi

4. Tlaib and Omar are part of an Islamic invasion of our govt

5. A plane did not hit the Pentagon during 9/11



But apparently back on Planet Blademda it’s the leftists whose “conspiracies” are getting bigger and bigger. “Conspiracies” about a president who has said repeatedly that he won the popular vote too....... if you just subtract the millions of illegal votes.

 

[vector2]

Trump Embraces Fringe Theories on Protests and the Coronavirus (Published 2020)

In a Twitter barrage, the president advanced conspiracy theories claiming that protests are an organized coup and that the virus death toll is inflated. He also reposted a call to imprison New York’s governor.

www.nytimes.com

 

[deleted126335]

The GOP is running a Congressional candidate in the GA- 14th - a candidate who is essentially a shoe-in in a deep red district - who has said:

1. The Trump presidency presents a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to take out a global cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles

2. There are doubts as to whether the 2017 Vegas shooter acted alone

3. George Soros is a nazi

4. Tlaib and Omar are part of an Islamic invasion of our govt

5. A plane did not hit the Pentagon during 9/11



But apparently back on Planet Blademda it’s the leftists whose “conspiracies” are getting bigger and bigger. “Conspiracies” about a president who has said repeatedly that he won the popular vote too....... if you just subtract the millions of illegal votes.

Marjorie Taylor Greene. I am not sure which is worse, does she actually believe those things or is she inciting her would be constituents just so she can get elected?

 

[Southpaw]

Your Conspiracy theories just get bigger and bigger each day. If Trump loses the election there will be a peaceful transfer of power and then you can return to your delusional view of a better country through socialism without Trump. But, the GOP will still be there to oppose the power grab by the Federal government over our lives.

what conspiracy theories?

 

[vector2]

"
As secretary of state, Mike Pompeo has presided over the collapse of negotiations with North Korea, the failure of a pressure campaign against Iran and an abortive attempt to oust Venezuela’s authoritarian regime. On his watch, China has carried out genocide in its Xinjiang region and the suppression of Hong Kong’s freedoms without resistance from Washington until it was too late.

Pompeo has failed to fill dozens of senior positions at the State Department, and hundreds of career diplomats have left or been driven out in political purges. Morale is at a historic low: In staff surveys, there has been a 34 percent increase between 2016 and 2019 in those who say the State Department’s senior leaders “did not maintain high levels of honesty and integrity.” Maybe that’s because Pompeo himself has defied legal mandates from Congress, skirted a law restricting arms sales to Saudi Arabia, tasked staffers with carrying out errands for himself and his wife, and fired the inspector general who was investigating his violations.

Last week, Pompeo crossed yet another ethical line by speaking before the Republican National Convention, thereby disregarding the State Department’s explicit legal guidance against such appearances. The speech he delivered was weak and littered with false or simply ludicrous claims, such as that the recent diplomatic accord between Israel and the United Arab Emirates is “a deal that our grandchildren will read about in their history books.” Maybe if they major in Middle Eastern affairs."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/mike-pompeo-is-the-worst-secretary-of-state-in-history/2020/08/30/00515750-e869-11ea-bc79-834454439a44_story.html

At least trump is the bloviatingly incompetent kind of evil. Pompeo otoh has got that calculatedly cunning f you the sky is actually green not blue Cheney/McConnell kind of evil vibe going

 

[deleted126335]

"
As secretary of state, Mike Pompeo has presided over the collapse of negotiations with North Korea, the failure of a pressure campaign against Iran and an abortive attempt to oust Venezuela’s authoritarian regime. On his watch, China has carried out genocide in its Xinjiang region and the suppression of Hong Kong’s freedoms without resistance from Washington until it was too late.

Pompeo has failed to fill dozens of senior positions at the State Department, and hundreds of career diplomats have left or been driven out in political purges. Morale is at a historic low: In staff surveys, there has been a 34 percent increase between 2016 and 2019 in those who say the State Department’s senior leaders “did not maintain high levels of honesty and integrity.” Maybe that’s because Pompeo himself has defied legal mandates from Congress, skirted a law restricting arms sales to Saudi Arabia, tasked staffers with carrying out errands for himself and his wife, and fired the inspector general who was investigating his violations.

Last week, Pompeo crossed yet another ethical line by speaking before the Republican National Convention, thereby disregarding the State Department’s explicit legal guidance against such appearances. The speech he delivered was weak and littered with false or simply ludicrous claims, such as that the recent diplomatic accord between Israel and the United Arab Emirates is “a deal that our grandchildren will read about in their history books.” Maybe if they major in Middle Eastern affairs."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/mike-pompeo-is-the-worst-secretary-of-state-in-history/2020/08/30/00515750-e869-11ea-bc79-834454439a44_story.html

At least trump is the bloviatingly incompetent kind of evil. Pompeo otoh has got that calculatedly cunning f you the sky is actually green not blue Cheney/McConnell kind of evil vibe going

While I have no love for Pompeo, but I appreciate the complexity of the challenges of his position.

North Korea has gone nowhere but to **** for decades. All we have done is pay them to not go to war and to not build nuclear weapons. That strategy hasn't gone too well for several administrations. The consensus is that there is no verifiable deal that we can get in which North Korea will dismantle its nuclear arsenal.

Obama tried hard to reach out to Iran for eight years. The only accomplishment was the nuclear agreement which did nothing other than kick the can down the road for 10-15 years on enriching uranium. They kept the letter of the agreement, but not the spirit of it. The agreement did nothing to curb Iran's bad behavior throughout the mideast, particularly in Syria and Iran's support of Hezbollah which continued. The agreement in fact gave them sorely needed cash to further their bad behavior.

The State Department has been a basket case since Inauguration day. Pompeo has been in the position two years. Granted he has done little to make it better and his speaking at the convention was one more breach of protocol and pushing the boundaries of ethical behavior.

Realistically would any administration do anything other than "deplore" and "condemn" China for their bad behavior towards Its Muslim population and Hong Kong? I find it hard to believe that any other president would take as aggressive, if ham handed, an approach to China as Trump has.

I am much more concerned with the erosion of our relationships with our Allies than the behavior towards our adversaries. But that is more the responsibility and fault of Trump than Pompeo.

 

[vector2]

While I have no love for Pompeo, but I appreciate the complexity of the challenges of his position.

North Korea has gone nowhere but to **** for decades. All we have done is pay them to not go to war and to not build nuclear weapons. That strategy hasn't gone too well for several administrations. The consensus is that there is no verifiable deal that we can get in which North Korea will dismantle its nuclear arsenal.

Obama tried hard to reach out to Iran for eight years. The only accomplishment was the nuclear agreement which did nothing other than kick the can down the road for 10-15 years on enriching uranium. They kept the letter of the agreement, but not the spirit of it. The agreement did nothing to curb Iran's bad behavior throughout the mideast, particularly in Syria and Iran's support of Hezbollah which continued. The agreement in fact gave them sorely needed cash to further their bad behavior.

The State Department has been a basket case since Inauguration day. Pompeo has been in the position two years. Granted he has done little to make it better and his speaking at the convention was one more breach of protocol and pushing the boundaries of ethical behavior.

Realistically would any administration do anything other than "deplore" and "condemn" China for their bad behavior towards Its Muslim population and Hong Kong? I find it hard to believe that any other president would take as aggressive, if ham handed, an approach to China as Trump has.

I am much more concerned with the erosion of our relationships with our Allies than the behavior towards our adversaries. But that is more the responsibility and fault of Trump than Pompeo.

Maintaining an already bad status quo is one thing. But Pompeo has encouraged the worst of trump's tendencies of catering to dictators and antagonizing our longstanding allies. He has shown absolutely no interest in actually managing the department, finding qualified personnel, or encouraging appointments of real ambassadors rather than toadies like Gordon Sondland. Long story short, when you make things worse either through apathy or malfeasance, the underlying complexity of situation doesn't attenuate your behavior.

 

[BLADEMDA]

QAnon Supporter Who Made Bigoted Videos Wins Ga. Primary, Likely Heading To Congress

President Trump is congratulating Marjorie Taylor Greene, calling her a "future Republican Star." Greene has endorsed a theory that satanic pedophiles secretly run the world.

www.npr.org

She is pretty far out there in terms of beliefs. I’d say she is extreme right and maybe a bit crazy too.

Obviously, if I lived in her district I would have voted for her opponent a neurosurgeon named Cowan.

The GOP has a few whackos just as the Dems do. Trump is mistaken in siding with Greene. I also don’t think Qanon really exists outside the internet.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Deep red Alabama rejected Judge Moore even with Trump’s support. They chose to elect a Democrat to the US Senate rather than Judge Moore. When the GOP allows poor candidates to run for office they risk losing the general election to a moderate Democrat. This has happened time and time again.

QAnon is not a real organization. The values it represents will be rejected by most Americans just as Judge Moore was rejected by the people of Alabama

Doug Jones (politician) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Jones is currently the only statewide elected Democrat in Alabama and the first Democrat to win statewide office since Lucy Baxley was elected President of the Alabama Public Service Commission in 2008. Democrats had not represented Alabama in the U.S. Senate since 1997, when Howell Heflin left office. Jones is considered a moderate Democrat who demonstrates a willingness to work with Republicans and split with his party on certain issues. Jones voted to convict, on both articles, in the impeachment trial of Donald Trump.[3][4]

 

[nimbus]

When the GOP allows poor candidates to run for office they risk losing the general election to a moderate Democrat. This has happened time and time again.

[4][/URL]

Their main guy is a poor candidate.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

I also don’t think Qanon really exists outside the internet.

Read up then. Q Anon originated in some slime ball corner of 4chan or 8chan or whatever. Conspiracy theory at it's absolute worst.

 

[deleted126335]

Deep red Alabama rejected Judge Moore even with Trump’s support. They chose to elect a Democrat to the US Senate rather than Judge Moore. When the GOP allows poor candidates to run for office they risk losing the general election to a moderate Democrat. This has happened time and time again.

QAnon is not a real organization. The values it represents will be rejected by most Americans just as Judge Moore was rejected by the people of Alabama

Doug Jones (politician) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Jones is currently the only statewide elected Democrat in Alabama and the first Democrat to win statewide office since Lucy Baxley was elected President of the Alabama Public Service Commission in 2008. Democrats had not represented Alabama in the U.S. Senate since 1997, when Howell Heflin left office. Jones is considered a moderate Democrat who demonstrates a willingness to work with Republicans and split with his party on certain issues. Jones voted to convict, on both articles, in the impeachment trial of Donald Trump.[3][4]

Not exactly Alabama's or the Republican party's finest hour.

Roy Moore while chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court defied the US Supreme Court.
Let's not forget that he "dated" teenagers while in his 30s and was accused of sexually assaulting a 14 and 16 y.o.
He was a segregationist and had ties to White Supremacist organizations.

Despite those "credentials" he was defeated by the whopping margin of 50-48. Well, way to go and whoop dee doo Alabama. Welcome to the 20th century.

 

[Southpaw]

Doug Jones will also lose in November to former football coach Tommy Tuberville, another MAGA build the wall, repeal Obamacare Trumper. #Alabama

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Not exactly Alabama's or the Republican party's finest hour.

Roy Moore while chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court defied the US Supreme Court.
Let's not forget that he "dated" teenagers while in his 30s and was accused of sexually assaulting a 14 and 16 y.o.
He was a segregationist and had ties to White Supremacist organizations.

Despite those "credentials" he was defeated by the whopping margin of 50-48. Well, way to go and whoop dee doo Alabama. Welcome to the 20th century.

When you consider that Sessions beat his last opponent for that seat 63% to 36% that is a pretty impressive swing.

 

[shepardsun]

When you consider that Sessions beat his last opponent for that seat 63% to 36% that is a pretty impressive swing.

Uhhh only because the guy was accused of being a literal child molester. I mean I'm happy for the result and I like Doug Jones, but let's not award Alabama a medal or anything. I'm sure they'll take the opportunity this year to regress to the mean.

 

[BLADEMDA]

QAnon explained: the antisemitic conspiracy theory gaining traction around the world

The visibility of the online movement has surged as a supporter appears headed to Congress and Trump fails to debunk claims

www.theguardian.com

I think anyone who believes this crap is likely quite stupid. I think many followers are just bored and looking for an outlet. Very few people actually believe this stuff has any validity to it.

 

[BLADEMDA]

What do QAnon supporters believe?
There are a wide range of conspiracy theories that QAnon supporters believe, View said.

Many falsely believe that mainstream U.S. media outlets receive an email at 4 a.m. every morning dictating what to cover. Others bizarrely say adrenochrome, a chemical compound, is the drug of the elite, and the only way to get the substance is to torture and kill children.

Others falsely say that John F. Kennedy Jr., didn't die in a plane crash. The furniture retailer Wayfair was recently the target of an unsubstantiated QAnon belief that the company was trafficking children through listings of products with inflated prices.

"It sounds completely nutty, and it is," Carusone said.

 

[vector2]

QAnon Supporter Who Made Bigoted Videos Wins Ga. Primary, Likely Heading To Congress

President Trump is congratulating Marjorie Taylor Greene, calling her a "future Republican Star." Greene has endorsed a theory that satanic pedophiles secretly run the world.

www.npr.org

She is pretty far out there in terms of beliefs. I’d say she is extreme right and maybe a bit crazy too.

Obviously, if I lived in her district I would have voted for her opponent a neurosurgeon named Cowan.

The GOP has a few whackos just as the Dems do. Trump is mistaken in siding with Greene. I also don’t think Qanon really exists outside the internet.

Craziest politician on the right: “Trump is our best chance to stop Satan-worshiping pedophiles who operate out of a D.C. pizza parlor”


Craziest politician on the left: “I think the citizens of the wealthiest country on earth have a right to healthcare”

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Uhhh only because the guy was accused of being a literal child molester. I mean I'm happy for the result and I like Doug Jones, but let's not award Alabama a medal or anything. I'm sure they'll take the opportunity this year to regress to the mean.

That's exactly the point. Expecting Alabama to not vote GOP outside extreme circumstances is ridiculous. That's how this whole tangent got started, by pointing out that even the reddest areas will go against the GOP if their candidate sucks enough like hopefully the QAnon supporting crazy pants from Georgia.