Arguably, you have a choice whether or not use the believe or use whatever is taught outside of the true medical curriculum. You just have to go through the motions. Don’t like how your school teaches? Stand your ground and have a conversation w the administration. Unless you don’t care enough to do so.
how long did it take you to come up with this one Shakespeare?
give an alternative explanation and I will hear you out. The bottom line is: black infants die at a higher rate under the care of white physicians as compared to black physicians. This isn’t something you think is in part due to the implicit bias of the provider? If not please let me know what could explain the gap.
“If you don’t like it, get yourself kicked out and prove it!”
He mentioned stats. I mentioned that I have the ability to read simple statistics by telling him not to patronize my skills because none of you know me and my math background. Let’s focus on the arguments that I’m making please. Clearly I’m getting under your skin.
“Shouldn’t be” - however it is what it is no? My main point is if you have a THAT much of a problem with it, address it. Otherwise what’s the point?
You shouldn’t be kicked out for expressing your view point. However how else are you going to change it?
It would be just as likely (given your low standards of evidence) that the patients are racist. Since that is obviously stupid and not proven by the study either, it would be most appropriate to stop asking people to prove the negative and instead actually prove your hypothesis
We’re in a thread that just got done discussing a principal fired over expressing their viewpoint. One side of this argument isn’t at all interested in a safe exchange of concepts
The patients are racist so their babies die at a higher rate under the care of white physicians. Yes, clear oversight on my part.
See how silly it sounds to spout off crazy inflammatory summaries or research that aren’t supported by evidence? That’s why we shouldn’t be doing that
If it’s to escape whatever’s is trying to kill you on the bridge, sure. It depends on whatever gives me the best chance of survival.
I will simplify my summary of the research. Black children die more often when cared for by white physicians. The next (very small) logical step that even the authors make is: this is probably due to implicit bias.
That bridge analogy was not the best, you have to admit. The societal norm is based on the majority no? I don’t necessarily agree with it, and agree to your point, but somethings are based on the majority of what people believe. For instance is walking around nude in public inherently wrong? No, but it’s against the law because the majority deemed it so.
What’s your point? This study actually didn’t look into implicit bias. Please read the study I linked. It’s about higher black infant mortality under the care of white physicians. Implicit bias is just the predominant explanation that the authors use to explain this disparity. Don’t take my word for it though. Read the paper. If it’s bad science, take it up with PNAS. They’re not a rinky-dink journal.
But does that study control for anything?What’s your point? This study actually didn’t look into implicit bias. Please read the study I linked. It’s about higher black infant mortality under the care of white physicians. Implicit bias is just the predominant explanation that the authors use to explain this disparity. Don’t take my word for it though. Read the paper. If it’s bad science, take it up with PNAS. They’re not a rinky-dink journal.
edit: linked the study here again
Physician–patient racial concordance and disparities in birthing mortality for newborns
A large body of work highlights disparities in survival rates across Black and White newborns during childbirth. We posit that these differences may be ameliorated by racial concordance between the physician and newborn patient. Findings suggest that when Black newborns are cared for by Black...www.pnas.org
What’s your point? This study actually didn’t look into implicit bias. Please read the study I linked. It’s about higher black infant mortality under the care of white physicians. Implicit bias is just the predominant explanation that the authors use to explain this disparity. Don’t take my word for it though. Read the paper. If it’s bad science, take it up with PNAS. They’re not a rinky-dink journal.
edit: linked the study here again
Physician–patient racial concordance and disparities in birthing mortality for newborns
A large body of work highlights disparities in survival rates across Black and White newborns during childbirth. We posit that these differences may be ameliorated by racial concordance between the physician and newborn patient. Findings suggest that when Black newborns are cared for by Black...
What a joke. I'm merely commenting on what happened to someone outside of my profession, citing them not being protected by Supreme Court law, and my opinion. Nowhere did I mention anything about medical students. Medical students have a lot of dumb opinions, all of which they keep to themselves when I come in contact with them because it largely doesn't matter to what we're doing. And vice versa. I think they should be free to express them in a school setting, whether I agree with them or not.
cite your source? How do you know that for sure?
My comment was about the larger national conversation, not necessarily you (you had even said you would likely want to pump the brakes on firing earlier)
Given that some of the justification for urm policies is a claim that patients are more likely to trust a racially concordant doctor, it’s not exactly blaming unicorns. But it is still a 100% not proven (hyperbolic) theory which should demand evidence to be taken seriously just like “well the white docs must be racist”
Great question. Yes, fellowship training and pediatrician status decrease the absolute magnitude of the effect but the relative mortality rate (between white and black physicians) remains disparate regardless of subspecialty training. If you have problems with the science, that’s okay but I do ask that you keep an open mind to the possibility that these differences are caused by racial bias. The nature of science is that we can’t definitely say that this is a direct causal relationship, but this study does a good job in ruling out alternative explanations. Also, we make casual relationships based on weaker data in medicine. I reject the idea that we only scrutinize one type of conclusion with this amount of vigor.
White doctors don’t have to fit our definitions (however different they may be) of racist for there to be clear and demonstrable differences in the way their black patients do compared to black doctors. It’s called “implicit” because it’s not at the front of their mind. I don’t think white doctors are racist as a rule, but the institutions in which they were trained, the society they grew up in, and the neighborhoods they work in have treated black people with disdain for centuries. To think that all of that somehow disappears when they put on a white coat is absurd. To the poster above that asks for my suggestion: I don’t have all of the answers but complaining about social justice in medical school curriculums is not going to save any lives. There needs to be more research on how we can reduce these disparities but in order for that to happen doctors must at the very minimum be educated on the existence of these disparities. No one is going to cure diabetes without understanding the mechanisms first. That’s why medical schools teach this stuff.
You can’t look at SES without race and vice versa because it correlates with education, access to care and ultimately clinical outcomes. There’s also genetics in terms of susceptibility to disease. I don’t think you can draw many conclusions from that data other than AA infant mortality is an issue, more research needs to be done there.
I agree it’s a systemic problem, but there must also be some reason why black physicians get better results? The study mentioned shows that black physicians are able to achieve lower mortality. What’s causing that? That should be motivation that something can be done. Even from a practical standpoint don’t you guys want to provide better services for your patients? How will you know you’re even doing a good job if we don’t track these metrics and do our best to beat down these disparities? If your practice/ institution doesn’t care about that and you just punch in and punch out, someone down the street will almost certainly be doing a better job to provide more equitable care. Doesn’t that set off your competitive edge to want to be the best damn doctor you can be? One suggestion: maybe ask your black colleagues what they do and think about when treating their patients? But in order for that to happen you need to have black colleagues somewhere. It’s not all medical schools fault but the percentage of black physicians has not increased in decades and this is something we should do some soul searching as a society and see if we are ok with 5% of physicians being black when 13% of our population is black. This is not about blaming people. It’s about providing a better product for our patients. I’m sure that’s why you and everyone else on the thread chose medicine.
No dude, can you give me some wellness?
