Ready? Set. Assassinate! - Assassination Classroom Themed WW - Sign Ups and Game Thread

[Lawpy]

Unfortunately, it is one of those rare situations where if you want to win you probably have to bus.

*notes this down as part of a Lawpy dream plan*

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[Animal Midwife]

>not me grieving over samac's death so hard + being outted in Supernatural that I turned myself into a non-killing sitting duck

 

[WildZoo]

And I agree with AM in that scenario you kill the seer and kill the mechanical clears and then try to get village chasing its tail on the softer clears.

 

[WildZoo]

But of course then you'd probably have to try to get AM and/or me misyeeted and uh...good luck with that

 

[Truenamer]

Unfortunately, it is one of those rare situations where if you want to win you probably have to bus. There's just no way you were getting the 4 additional misyeets you still needed at that point otherwise. The group of people cleared by mkg and people cleared by interactions with fluff took away all other avenues. Village has too much time left still to work through all the paranoia options even if you presented them. And in truth killing two people in a tie is not basic and isn't something you would have normally had to rely on anyway, so then you'd have had the IC potentially to contend with as well.

Basically you were ****ed lol

Especially because the IC was a person who'd otherwise be a natural misyeet (which is clearly why they gave it to her).

I agree, I think I would have had to land a firm bus on Fluff on D2 to win, and I'm just not going to play like that.

 

[Truenamer]

But of course then you'd probably have to try to get AM and/or me misyeeted and uh...good luck with that

I genuinely believe that it would be easier for me to get the village to misyeet a Seer clear than it would be for me, specifically, to push your misyeet.

 

[WildZoo]

Especially because the IC was a person who'd otherwise be a natural misyeet (which is clearly why they gave it to her).

I agree, I think I would have had to land a firm bus on Fluff on D2 to win, and I'm just not going to play like that.

Oh actually I meant you bussing weagle or vice versa, after fluff had died, once the seer info was out on d3.

 

[Truenamer]

Oh actually I meant you bussing weagle or vice versa, after fluff had died, once the seer info was out on d3.

I am not sure if that would have been enough. And that would have been a real, proper bus, and you know how I feel about those.

 

[WildZoo]

I am not sure if that would have been enough. And that would have been a real, proper bus, and you know how I feel about those.

I'm not sure it would have worked either. But it's the only potentially winning strategy I can imagine here after fluff died and mkg revealed.

 

[Viscernable]

No. I should never be POE'd or in neutrals by endgame.

IS THAT SO

 

[Viscernable]

At that point the PoE had been reduced to four people, of which the wolves were two.

The moment mkg died, it confirmed she was a real seer. Then there were more confirmed due to votes + seer confirmed people than wolves + NKs.

So, no. I disagree with this strategy.

I’ve seen AM’s thread control trickery, she says crazy stuff like this because crazy stuff like this somehow works for her

 

[Viscernable]

I think you'd be pleased to hear I once ran a game whose sole purpose was to dunk on the seer. The fear and doubt of everyone was mechanically satisfying.

What game

 

[Barkley13]

This is the seer game I'm referring to if you want to go on a feels trip.

(Small warning that my TOCs always contain spoliers if you want to read the whole thread blindly.)

Friday the 13'er - Game Thread

Mods @Animal Midwife and @PippyPony (and peeping @StayingPositive2017) Mechanics Lynch close is 10PM EDT. Night close is 10AM EDT. Majority starts Day 2. Assume lynch is closed when majority is hit even if no mod is available. Ties are resolved with one candidate dying by RNG. Wolf kills are...

forums.studentdoctor.net

I died so fast I didn’t even make it to the roster in the first post 😔

 

[bluestoat]

I just wanted to say that I'm re-reading @potentialsheltervet responding to True reveal and laughing, crying at how funny it is

 

[Crayola227]

At that point the PoE had been reduced to four people, of which the wolves were two.

The moment mkg died, it confirmed she was a real seer. Then there were more confirmed due to votes + seer confirmed people than wolves + NKs.

So, no. I disagree with this strategy.

The "good" of the seer being in doubt, to whatever degree you can get doubt going on them, is completely offset by their continuing to use their ability to finger wolves and clear villagers, and the fact that generally the only players really driving sus of the seer will likely be wolves (or me if village, but that's your sig Cray paranoia). So the bad of trying to drive a seer yeet or cast sus on them or their reads, like, you don't gain by their continued existence. You don't gain.

Seer must die ASAP. Period. The only time I have ever hesitated on targeting a known outted seer, was because we had reason to believe they were protected and so waited a night to use a strongarm ability iirc. Or we had the ability to block the seer while we waited to be sure the kill wouldn't fail.

 

[Crayola227]

Option A: surrender to mechanics and openwolf until death.
Option B: one wolf starts a wagon on the other to try and buy enough village cred to last.

Option B gives you a chance. Option B has actually succeeded in the past. Bussing is infuriating to village not only because it complicates one's own future village games, but because it can win games and it can be hard to protect against.

 

[Crayola227]

The village play is just so strong. Over half of the players in this game are borderline seers just based on skill, even if there are only a couple people they can each individually read super well. They create a network of village support that becomes extremely hard to crack.

Then to get misyeets, you have to start pushing against other people's reading cards or strong reads, and that inherently looks wolfy.

Now you understand.

This is why we need more mechanics that **** with people's expectations, even if they're borderline bastard.

 

[Truenamer]

Now you understand.

This is why we need more mechanics that **** with people's expectations, even if they're borderline bastard.

After this I'm going to make a game with a Seer who's wrong 50% of the time and a Wolf Innocent Child

 

[Crayola227]

But of course then you'd probably have to try to get AM and/or me misyeeted and uh...good luck with that

Honestly I wonder if as village I push you guys so hard so I can at least try for it as wolf....

But no, at least I don't have to purposefully try to handicap my village game in order to help my wolf game, because the paranoia is real.

But it does help my wolf game to at least have pushing certain players as part of my meta.

I think mechanics that lead to maximum paranoia could only help the play on this site. Wolves need misyeets to win. We need occasional wolf wins to keep things fun for both sides and keep everyone sharp. This means that no one as village should be safe from misyeet. If we need to shake up some game mechanics to do it, sobeit

 

[supershorty]

After this I'm going to make a game with a Seer who's wrong 50% of the time and a Wolf Innocent Child

I had a role called Wolf Innocent Child in LaWWpy and it was a villager that would seer as wolf (hirsute) but then it never got seered

 

[Animal Midwife]

After this I'm going to make a game with a Seer who's wrong 50% of the time and a Wolf Innocent Child

I'll accept the former, but if I ever see another wolf innocent child, I'm throwing you in the Lawpy bin.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I guess I should say, I briefly considered getting Weagle to bus the hell out of me, but it seemed like a lot to ask her to try and navigate against like twenty confirmed villagers all by herself (and I don't think asking to be bussed is leagues better than just doing it yourself).

I know we fundamentally disagree on this, but I'd rather bus a packmate (or have them bus me, although ideally only if I'm already going down) and win the game than not bus and lose.
Of course I haven't won as scum yet anyway, so kind of a moot point, but in my personal opinion I see bussing or being bussed as somewhat similar to misyeeting a villager or being misyoten. The difference with wolves is you know what you're doing.
But I don't think it's a horrible strategy and can be very beneficial to wolves.

 

[Crayola227]

Especially because the IC was a person who'd otherwise be a natural misyeet (which is clearly why they gave it to her).

I agree, I think I would have had to land a firm bus on Fluff on D2 to win, and I'm just not going to play like that.

Ugh, why not?

If a wolf is going down, the pack needs to make the best use of that. That can mean bussing. It can also mean staying off the bus. Whatever it takes man.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Okay but what if there was a (s)innocent child that could be mod revealed as wolf but also as an alpha?
That would be fun. Alpha wolf open trolling while the other wolves try to misdirect village.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I think my growing reputation as a frequent choker will help me avoid bussing in the future. It's not surprising if I'm not on a wolf yeet because I... do that often. 🪦
But I'd still rather be part of a wolfpack that involved bussing and win the game than avoid bussing and lose (depending on the situation, I'm painting in broad strokes here). Just like I'd rather be misyoten as a villager but see village win than be misyoten and have wolves win.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Okay but what if there was a (s)innocent child that could be mod revealed as wolf but also as an alpha?
That would be fun. Alpha wolf open trolling while the other wolves try to misdirect village.

Well, you can see how a similar thing went in Casino, if you're interested.

 

[Animal Midwife]

But for clarification, that's not an innocent child. Innocent children always reveal as village.

 

[Truenamer]

Ugh, why not?

If a wolf is going down, the pack needs to make the best use of that. That can mean bussing. It can also mean staying off the bus. Whatever it takes man.

I just feel like it's a card you can play once, and then it's no longer a strong defense. People on here are extremely quick to point out when someone has been fine voting for a packmate.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

In a totally, perfectly ideal situation, the whole pack would win together as a beautiful, sneaky little pseudo-blocc. But especially with the way mechanics have shaken out (still thinking about BoWWling and Lit here) it is getting, in my opinion, harder and harder to avoid bussing without pointing a sign at yourself that says "Yes, I'm a wolf!"
I know some players don't want to bus, ever, even in mechanical outting situations (Zenge comes to mind) and that's their prerogative. But to bus, or be bussed, to secure a wolf win is not immoral in my opinion.

 

[Lawpy]

But for clarification, that's not an innocent child. Innocent children always reveal as village.

AM pls

What about converted innocent children

 

[Truenamer]

In a totally, perfectly ideal situation, the whole pack would win together as a beautiful, sneaky little pseudo-blocc. But especially with the way mechanics have shaken out (still thinking about BoWWling and Lit here) it is getting, in my opinion, harder and harder to avoid bussing without pointing a sign at yourself that says "Yes, I'm a wolf!"
I know some players don't want to bus, ever, even in mechanical outting situations (Zenge comes to mind) and that's their prerogative. But to bus, or be bussed, to secure a wolf win is not immoral in my opinion.

I'm still feeling bad about voting for Weagle, to be honest, because it was pointless. Feel like I lost something for no reason. I was just playing to make things entertaining for the villagers by Saturday.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I'm still feeling bad about voting for Weagle, to be honest, because it was pointless. Feel like I lost something for no reason. I was just playing to make things entertaining for the villagers by Saturday.

You didn't lose anything (unless you mean time not stalking the thread). You're still just as much a powerwolf given the circustances surrounding the bus.

 

[bluestoat]

I just feel like it's a card you can play once, and then it's no longer a strong defense. People on here are extremely quick to point out when someone has been fine voting for a packmate.

Plus I've not seen it actually work well in games with bus-heavy packs. Village is too ready for it. Just makes the wolves work against their own win, at least on SDN

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I just feel like it's a card you can play once, and then it's no longer a strong defense. People on here are extremely quick to point out when someone has been fine voting for a packmate.

But, this is also a concern. I am still frustrated with how I am basically doomed to never clear myself even when I do vote for wolves because bussing is absolutely not out of my wolf meta. So there's a trade-off. I think having a no-bussing policy can help your village meta a lot, and it helps you avoid being misyoten (unless you happen to be a major choker, RIP). But at the cost of not being able to use that strategy as a wolf when the going gets tough.
All down to personal preference. In my opinion, bussing when a packmate is going down as a strategy? Sure. Not bussing because you think you can get away with it? Yeah.
For me, in the former situation of feeling like I can never clear myself even when I've voted for a wolf, the feeling has mostly diminished. It's been a few months since I've wolfed, and I think I've become a better villager/player in terms of vomiting village, which helps cover me. See this game, when I wasn't seriously under sus consideration despite never actually voting for fluff.
So because I tried, fruitlessly, to employ bussing as a strategy, I also had to modify my village play some to use other methods to convey village-ness aside from just voting wolves, because voting wolves is not enough (for me). For someone who doesn't use bussing, they might have more of a powerwolfing approach.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

At the same time, it's ideal if wolves don't eat each other and focus on eating village instead.
I'm rambling, obviously, but the point I'm attempting to make is bussing is fine, not bussing is fine. Either way there are ramifications.

 

[Lawpy]

I encourage everyone to bus and it doesn’t affect my reads. In fact, bussing is what makes WW even more challenging and exciting because we don’t have to rely on VCA to blindly clear people and have to instead rely on advanced WW strategies. So pls, bus away.

*runs away*

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I'm still feeling bad about voting for Weagle, to be honest, because it was pointless. Feel like I lost something for no reason. I was just playing to make things entertaining for the villagers by Saturday.

Well, I was still pocketed at the time and willing to vote genny with you. AM was willing to hear a case on why genny could've been a wolf. But if you hadn't voted weagle, I would've immediately yoten you. I was using weagle as a litmus test for you (hence why I kept poking you about it). Not voting weagle would only have convinced me you were wolfing. Voting weagle left enough "but what if...?" for me.
So it wasn't pointless. She'd been seered wolf. Like genny mentioned, it would've been game-throwing not to yeet her.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I encourage everyone to bus

You encourage everyone to bus you

 

[Animal Midwife]

I definitely see the value in being a deepwolf, alternating between deepwolfing and powerwolfing, or just being somewhere in-between. I'm afraid it's just not a good fit for my own playstyle though. I tend to be suspected just for being alive lategame, so I like to have something to fall back on if things could be dicey (and also have insurance if I'm on the slightly less rare D1 wolf yeet).

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Anyway I'm going to play Stardew Valley, but I've ruminated on this concept a bunch. There seems to be an element of culture here that bussing is bad, or it's a lesser wolf strategy, or it's morally inferior to not bussing, and I don't agree with that. It's a tactic, like powerwolfing. It may not be a tactic everyone is willing to use, and that is totally fine! But it's not like if you vote for a packmate you're replacing holy water with battery acid.

 

[Lawpy]

You encourage everyone to bus you

That too

But no really, i’ve been looking at MU champs games and developed a different perspective on WW. I think we shouldn’t hold ourselves so strongly as to whether we vote for our packmates, because bussing is and should be used as an effective strategy. Playing to win is important and just artificially handicapping yourself because of longterm gain of getting to be cleared by VCA just isn’t it. I mean it’s fine but I view VCA as a basic skill that can be pretty much trashed thoroughly by both bussers and pure powerwolves regardless. But I really wouldn’t feel guilty if a situation forces you to bus or view it as losing the powerwolf read forever. WW games are crazily situational and we just can’t extrapolate like that.

 

[Lawpy]

Longwinded way of saying @Truenamer you played well and i wouldn’t feel bad. Seers are a pain to deal with so join the #NerfTheSeer movement!

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Oh and I will also say... I think certain players (Zenge, Dubz, AM, shorty) can afford to not bus because they're just... really good, and have a tendency to be village read anyway. For sketch goblins, if it feels like you're having to build a case for why you're village in inches rather than miles, bussing can be a huge boost to your case. I have no statistics to back this up, but I suspect noob wolves tend to bus easier/earlier/more often than some veteran players because we have to work harder to prove we're village in the first place. Or for some veteran players, such as Cubs or genny who tend to get yoten early due to inherent sketch and an apparent RNG scum magnet, bussing can help to either save the remaining packmates or stave off the bloodlust for a bit.
At least, that is my opinion.

 

[Animal Midwife]

That too

But no really, i’ve been looking at MU champs games and developed a different perspective on WW. I think we shouldn’t hold ourselves so strongly as to whether we vote for our packmates, because bussing is and should be used as an effective strategy. Playing to win is important and just artificially handicapping yourself because of longterm gain of getting to be cleared by VCA just isn’t it. I mean it’s fine but I view VCA as a basic skill that can be pretty much trashed thoroughly by both bussers and pure powerwolves regardless. But I really wouldn’t feel guilty if a situation forces you to bus or view it as losing the powerwolf read forever. WW games are crazily situational and we just can’t extrapolate like that.

Well, let's see you enact this manifesto by playing.

 

[Lawpy]

say... I think certain players (Zenge, Dubz, AM, shorty) can afford to not bus because they're just... really good

pshelty pls i have a plan in place for that

Just need the RNG to work in our favor pls

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Also
I was not under the impression powerwolfing was mutually exclusive with bussing. I thought powerwolfing was controlling thread opinion and generally painting yourself as keeper of the blocc, but not to the exclusion of voting packmates if necessary. Am I incorrect?

 

[Lawpy]

Well, let's see you enact this manifesto by playing.

AM pls you know my wolf plan is Sekret

 

[potentialsheltervet]

AM pls you know my wolf plan is Sekret

Lawpy pls you tell everyone your wolf plan is to have your packmates bus you into the Earth's core.

 

[Lawpy]

Lawpy pls you tell everyone your wolf plan is to have your packmates bus you into the Earth's core.

Yes pls but it’s the how that’s sekret. Completely unorthodox and shocking. Just wait and see when i RNG as wolf soon pls

 

[Animal Midwife]

Also
I was not under the impression powerwolfing was mutually exclusive with bussing. I thought powerwolfing was controlling thread opinion and generally painting yourself as keeper of the blocc, but not to the exclusion of voting packmates if necessary. Am I incorrect?

It's not exclusive with voting a packmate in general. It just comes down to context again. Like your partner's already in the POE and on the board (such as being mech outted) by the time you're even considering voting for them.