Preceptors: What do you dislike about your students?

[sfwusc]

If you made the argument that the entire tuition cost is say, 80k, and they divided it evenly into 20k/yr x 4 rather than 25k + 25k + 25k + 5k, that would be fair. Maybe that's how it actually is planned, but it doesn't seem that's how they represent it.

You are better off with the 20k x 4. They are doing you a favor. Why complain about it. Google time value of money.

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[KUMoose]

Students that don't think before they spout crap off. Had a student working in the pharmacy today that went ballistic when I dinged them about prioritizing driving caution when counseling a parkinson's patient using Apokyn.

"But the book says to mention it"

Now I work with a fair number of older patients, so yea Parkinson's is part of my life, but I've never seen Apokyn used in Parkinson's patients that can physically still drive, let alone still have a driver's license.

While I get my experience with patients on it is not indictative of everyone on it, at least think about how to prioritize information leaving your mouth for the customer's ear.

 

[Sparda29]

Students that don't think before they spout crap off. Had a student working in the pharmacy today that went ballistic when I dinged them about prioritizing driving caution when counseling a parkinson's patient using Apokyn.

"But the book says to mention it"

Now I work with a fair number of older patients, so yea Parkinson's is part of my life, but I've never seen Apokyn used in Parkinson's patients that can physically still drive, let alone still have a driver's license.

While I get my experience with patients on it is not indictative of everyone on it, at least think about how to prioritize information leaving your mouth for the customer's ear.

Yep, I remember being on my APPE retail rotation and there was a P1 on their IPPE there at the same time. P1 damn near scared a patient to death about some obscure 1/1,000,000 ADR and the patient ended up not wanting to take the prescription.

 

[UES Girl]

Yep, I remember being on my APPE retail rotation and there was a P1 on their IPPE there at the same time. P1 damn near scared a patient to death about some obscure 1/1,000,000 ADR and the patient ended up not wanting to take the prescription.

That's basically years and years of "you better memorize every obscure little detail because it sure gonna show up on the test or your ass is done", so people forget to distance themselves and look at the big picture. I don't blame them for being clueless.


So I am starting my rotation next week and basically what I learned from this thread, having worked two jobs all through college, even during my third year of pharm school is that I ain't got **** to worry about. My work ethic is pristine, I've been in managerial positions myself so know how to handle myself and despite xiphoid's snarky comments I'm actually usually the one who ends up busting my ass for hours to come past the "going home time", so all the major complaints preceptors have with students I've outgrown a decade ago.

I'm also tall, hot and carry myself in such the manner that the whole "constant putdown" nonsense Steve Perry entertained there for a second won't fly with me. Certain people have a presence about them that demands kindness and respect and I am one of those people.

Rotations here I come!

 

[Its Z]

That's basically years and years of "you better memorize every obscure little detail because it sure gonna show up on the test or your ass is done", so people forget to distance themselves and look at the big picture. I don't blame them for being clueless.


So I am starting my rotation next week and basically what I learned from this thread, having worked two jobs all through college, even during my third year of pharm school is that I ain't got **** to worry about. My work ethic is pristine, I've been in managerial positions myself so know how to handle myself and despite xiphoid's snarky comments I'm actually usually the one who ends up busting my ass for hours to come past the "going home time", so all the major complaints preceptors have with students I've outgrown a decade ago.

I'm also tall, hot and carry myself in such the manner that the whole "constant putdown" nonsense Steve Perry entertained there for a second won't fly with me. Certain people have a presence about them that demands kindness and respect and I am one of those people.

Rotations here I come!

Thats a very blatant violation of rule #1.

 

[StevePerry]

that's basically years and years of "you better memorize every obscure little detail because it sure gonna show up on the test or your ass is done", so people forget to distance themselves and look at the big picture. I don't blame them for being clueless.


So i am starting my rotation next week and basically what i learned from this thread, having worked two jobs all through college, even during my third year of pharm school is that i ain't got **** to worry about. My work ethic is pristine, i've been in managerial positions myself so know how to handle myself and despite xiphoid's snarky comments i'm actually usually the one who ends up busting my ass for hours to come past the "going home time", so all the major complaints preceptors have with students i've outgrown a decade ago.

I'm also tall, hot and carry myself in such the manner that the whole "constant putdown" nonsense steve perry entertained there for a second won't fly with me. Certain people have a presence about them that demands kindness and respect and i am one of those people.

Rotations here i come!

Вы будете грубо пробуждены

 

[Sparda29]

That's basically years and years of "you better memorize every obscure little detail because it sure gonna show up on the test or your ass is done", so people forget to distance themselves and look at the big picture. I don't blame them for being clueless.


So I am starting my rotation next week and basically what I learned from this thread, having worked two jobs all through college, even during my third year of pharm school is that I ain't got **** to worry about. My work ethic is pristine, I've been in managerial positions myself so know how to handle myself and despite xiphoid's snarky comments I'm actually usually the one who ends up busting my ass for hours to come past the "going home time", so all the major complaints preceptors have with students I've outgrown a decade ago.

I'm also tall, hot and carry myself in such the manner that the whole "constant putdown" nonsense Steve Perry entertained there for a second won't fly with me. Certain people have a presence about them that demands kindness and respect and I am one of those people.

Rotations here I come!

 

[Ackj]

I don't recall you being tall Sparda. Gotta leave the tall gals to the tall guys so we don't get back problems.

 

[naseuy]

That's basically years and years of "you better memorize every obscure little detail because it sure gonna show up on the test or your ass is done", so people forget to distance themselves and look at the big picture. I don't blame them for being clueless.


So I am starting my rotation next week and basically what I learned from this thread, having worked two jobs all through college, even during my third year of pharm school is that I ain't got **** to worry about. My work ethic is pristine, I've been in managerial positions myself so know how to handle myself and despite xiphoid's snarky comments I'm actually usually the one who ends up busting my ass for hours to come past the "going home time", so all the major complaints preceptors have with students I've outgrown a decade ago.

I'm also tall, hot and carry myself in such the manner that the whole "constant putdown" nonsense Steve Perry entertained there for a second won't fly with me. Certain people have a presence about them that demands kindness and respect and I am one of those people.

Rotations here I come!

Well, you sound like buckets of fun.

 

[UES Girl]

Well, you sound like buckets of fun.

I am. I won the unofficial class nomination for the one you'd like to party with. Plus, better be confident and excited looking forward to the future, than anxious and cowardly over things you have no control over.

Вы будете грубо пробуждены

Heh. We shall see. Nice touch with the Russian btw.

 

[UES Girl]

Wholy Jesus, I been here 14 hours today on my first day and still have not finished working up my patients since the training took half the day. This is hardly looking at the clock that majority of preceptors complained about.

 

[joetrisman]

Wholy Jesus, I been here 14 hours today on my first day and still have not finished working up my patients since the training took half the day. This is hardly looking at the clock that majority of preceptors complained about.

Lame bananas

 

[owlegrad]

Weak sause

 

[SHC1984]

The more hours you get done on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday the less I have to do on Thursday and Friday. Maybe I can have a 3 or 4 day weekend. I am all for that.

 

[njac]

The more hours you get done on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday the less I have to do on Thursday and Friday. Maybe I can have a 3 or 4 day weekend. I am all for that.

Huh? My students work until
The work is done, not until they hit a magic 40 hour mark.

 

[rxlea]

The more hours you get done on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday the less I have to do on Thursday and Friday. Maybe I can have a 3 or 4 day weekend. I am all for that.

This made me lol

I mean this in the kindest way...you are kinda spoiled...I doubt you know much about hard work. My suggestion to you is to shape up before you go on rotations or your preceptors are not going to be impressed. I don't know what you did in IPPE, but work didn't end after leaving for the day (at least not for me).

 

[NaOH]

SHC is a high-level troll.


That's what I tell myself in my heart, anyway.

 

[Busta919]

Consider the source. SHC, based on previous posts, does not know what it is like to hold a job, yes even flipping burgers or washing dishes.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I personally think 14 hours is ridiculous. I'd never hold my students that long and would never stay that long myself. But my practice settings aren't inpatient. But I did do four inpatient rotations (IM/cardiology, pysch, ICU, and geriatrics/hospice) and none of them were 14 hour days. I'm glad, because I was pregnant and would have been physically unable to work those kinds of hours.

I get irritated with students who watch the clock and openly complain about what is a fairly relaxed rotation... like my warfarin clinc. Maybe 5-6 hours of clinic every day and only a little homework. SUCK IT UP. Or our clinical community rotation. 9 hour days, but you get half of Friday off and the homework is minimal. When they complain, it makes me want to assign the ****iest projects ever. But then I'd have to grade them.

 

[owlegrad]

SHC is a high-level troll.


That's what I tell myself in my heart, anyway.

Are you a high level Observer or did you have to use a Lens of Truth item to determine that?

 

[SHC1984]

Huh? My students work until
The work is done, not until they hit a magic 40 hour mark.

This made me lol

I mean this in the kindest way...you are kinda spoiled...I doubt you know much about hard work. My suggestion to you is to shape up before you go on rotations or your preceptors are not going to be impressed. I don't know what you did in IPPE, but work didn't end after leaving for the day (at least not for me).

SHC is a high-level troll.


That's what I tell myself in my heart, anyway.

Consider the source. SHC, based on previous posts, does not know what it is like to hold a job, yes even flipping burgers or washing dishes.

Are you a high level Observer or did you have to use a Lens of Truth item to determine that?

I did IPPE and all my days were 8 hrs long and sometimes LESS. I honestly have never heard of anyone working 14hr days for 5 days a week. I thought it was a joke when the first poster on here mentioned it.

Like Chebs was saying....I don't mind staying an extra 15 to 30 minutes on occasions when there are extra work to be done, but regular 14 hr days 5 days a week? I never heard of that. Sure, once in a blue moon you get a long day, that's no problem. But everyday? I don't think so.

 

[SHC1984]

As a pharmacist you can choose to work more than 40 hr weeks. I understand that...but that's gotta be BY CHOICE and you gotta get the extra $$$ that comes with it. I'll work over 40 hrs a week provided that my $$$$ matches the amount of time I am staying. And of course that $$$ has to be HIGH enough for me or I'll rather work fewer hours.

Trolling? I don't think so I think what I have said is pretty much common sense. Who likes to work over-time for free, NOT on occasions but EVERYDAY? Again, I don't think so! lol...

 

[SHC1984]

I personally think 14 hours is ridiculous. I'd never hold my students that long and would never stay that long myself. But my practice settings aren't inpatient. But I did do four inpatient rotations (IM/cardiology, pysch, ICU, and geriatrics/hospice) and none of them were 14 hour days. I'm glad, because I was pregnant and would have been physically unable to work those kinds of hours.

I get irritated with students who watch the clock and openly complain about what is a fairly relaxed rotation... like my warfarin clinc. Maybe 5-6 hours of clinic every day and only a little homework. SUCK IT UP. Or our clinical community rotation. 9 hour days, but you get half of Friday off and the homework is minimal. When they complain, it makes me want to assign the ****iest projects ever. But then I'd have to grade them.

I am hoping Chebs is just joking on this one.

 

[NaOH]

Trolling? I don't think so I think what I have said is pretty much common sense. Who likes to work over-time for free, NOT on occasions but EVERYDAY? Again, I don't think so! lol...

I don't think anyone is claiming to enjoy it, really - just accepting the reality that sometimes you will have to. In the context of rotations, and to repeat what I'm sure has been stated previously in the thread - it's realizing that for the next month or so, you are their dog... so put on your best smile, bend over and take it. Maybe even try to learn something while you're stuck there. It's not forever.

 

[owlegrad]

Well, I agree that if 14 hour days are the norm for a rotation, no way would I work 5 days a week. That is just crazy. But if I had to stay late one day (and I have, several days) I don't expect to take the time off later in the week. It is what it is. So far I have had great rotations though, so hopefully that continues.

 

[pharmasaur]

she said it was her first day which involved training. so....it's probably just a first day orientation type of thing lol. it'd be impossible to be 14-day long rotations everyday...

 

[UES Girl]

I am hoping Chebs is just joking on this one.

I am not joking, I really was there for 14 hours yesterday. I had a lunch break but still. Today I been here since 7am ? and it's 6.08 pm, so what 11 hours and I am not done yet. 15 minutes for lunch. I am not complaining, I am loving it like in Macdo's commercials. I don't want to go home.

 

[xtsukiyox]

Trolling? I don't think so I think what I have said is pretty much common sense. Who likes to work over-time for free, NOT on occasions but EVERYDAY? Again, I don't think so! lol...

Gosh, I hope you never get a salary position. You'll be in for a shock.

 

[NaOH]

Gosh, I hope you never get a salary position. You'll be in for a shock.

....... aw, I can't even say it.

 

[Ackj]

Gosh, I hope you never get a salary position. You'll be in for a shock.

I agree that you have to get the work done while on rotation, which is similar to a salaried job. However, I don't think anyone who is salaried works double what their scheduled hours are, except maybe for an extremely rare occasion. If your job was roughly 9-5 M-F, but you stayed until 11pm every single night, that is insanity.

 

[Its Z]

I am not joking, I really was there for 14 hours yesterday. I had a lunch break but still. Today I been here since 7am ? and it's 6.08 pm, so what 11 hours and I am not done yet. 15 minutes for lunch. I am not complaining, I am loving it like in Macdo's commercials. I don't want to go home.

I like it. That's the attitude that will help you succeed over "I'm only doing 8hrs per day" students.

 

[Sparda29]

I am not joking, I really was there for 14 hours yesterday. I had a lunch break but still. Today I been here since 7am ? and it's 6.08 pm, so what 11 hours and I am not done yet. 15 minutes for lunch. I am not complaining, I am loving it like in Macdo's commercials. I don't want to go home.

15 mins for lunch is wrong.

I had many 16 hour days during Internal Med, but even then, I had like a 20 min breakfast, 1 hour lunch, 30 minute dinner, and numerous coffee breaks throughout the day.

Now the one thing I hate about rotations is how if you make a random comment about a drug or therapy or something, and your preceptor hears it, it turns into a project.

Me and a pharmacist talking:

Me: Oh this patient is on Avandia, it's a ****ty drug.

Preceptor overhears this, comes over and asks, why is it a ****ty drug, what is the MOA, how does that affect the ADR for it, review some of the Avandia safety trials, cardiovascular risk, etc. A god damn 4 word statement about Avandia, and it results in me having to do an extra journal club.

 

[Garfield3d]

As a pharmacist you can choose to work more than 40 hr weeks. I understand that...but that's gotta be BY CHOICE and you gotta get the extra $$$ that comes with it. I'll work over 40 hrs a week provided that my $$$$ matches the amount of time I am staying. And of course that $$$ has to be HIGH enough for me or I'll rather work fewer hours.

The clinical pharmacists at my site (inpatient) are salaried and aren't paid by the hour. When the census explodes, they don't get paid extra for the extra hours spend working up patients or wrapping things up.

The staff pharmacists do get paid on an hourly rate. In either case, though, be aware that some positions are paid hourly and others may be salaried.

I am not joking, I really was there for 14 hours yesterday. I had a lunch break but still. Today I been here since 7am ? and it's 6.08 pm, so what 11 hours and I am not done yet. 15 minutes for lunch. I am not complaining, I am loving it like in Macdo's commercials. I don't want to go home.

Ditto. I've had plenty of days on my internal medicine and cardiology rotations that have lasted more than 12 hours. Lots of weeks were 50+ hours, and that doesn't count spent at home on readings and projects. Honestly, this kind of stuff should be expected. A lot of your work during hospital rotations depend on your daily census (# of patients you have to cover), and you basically work as much as you can to responsibly cover your census. If you're cutting corners while working up your patients so that you can leave early, you're compromising the quality of patient care and that's a pretty ridiculous thing to consider.

Yeah, going home earlier is better than going home later. We can all understand that. But, you should be expecting a work week that exceeds 40 hours. You're going to have to some pretty long days (moreso since we're students who are trying to gain clinical perspective).

--Garfield3d

 

[SHC1984]

I don't think anyone is claiming to enjoy it, really - just accepting the reality that sometimes you will have to. In the context of rotations, and to repeat what I'm sure has been stated previously in the thread - it's realizing that for the next month or so, you are their dog... so put on your best smile, bend over and take it. Maybe even try to learn something while you're stuck there. It's not forever.

I am not joking, I really was there for 14 hours yesterday. I had a lunch break but still. Today I been here since 7am ? and it's 6.08 pm, so what 11 hours and I am not done yet. 15 minutes for lunch. I am not complaining, I am loving it like in Macdo's commercials. I don't want to go home.

I like it. That's the attitude that will help you succeed over "I'm only doing 8hrs per day" students.

I was just shocked that some actually had to work that many hours. OF COURSE I know how to act if I am in front of people that I am hoping will HIRED me in the future. If working extra hours will make me more competitive for a position that I love then I'll do it. Fair enough. Beggers can't be choosers. If I am the one wanting them to hire me (I am the begger) then I'll do whats needed to get that position. Most of the rotations I have I like a lot...there are 2 or 3 that I will LOVE...so yeah, I will be doing my share of sucking up and staying late to make sure they love me too. LOL...

 

[KARM12]

I never expect my students to spend more hrs at work than I do.

 

[xtsukiyox]

I agree that you have to get the work done while on rotation, which is similar to a salaried job. However, I don't think anyone who is salaried works double what their scheduled hours are, except maybe for an extremely rare occasion. If your job was roughly 9-5 M-F, but you stayed until 11pm every single night, that is insanity.

Indubitably.