People have given up on the quarantine.

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
More cases should be expected as the country is lifting stay at home restrictions. People who should have been exposed to the virus if no lockdown was implemented are now contracting it. All the lockdown achieved was delay herd immunity and for those keen on insisting that it "flattened the curve."
You can' get herd immunity without a vaccine. I guess you could try. If I were to accept your argument about herd immunity being possible I will allow the best case scenario.

Depending on the R naught of this virus you will need 60%-80% of the population to be affected.
I will assume a case fatality rate of 0.3% as per the CDC
With 330 million Americans you would have to be willing to accept almost 600,000 deaths at 60%

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You can' get herd immunity without a vaccine. I guess you could try. If I were to accept your argument about herd immunity being possible I will allow the best case scenario.

Depending on the R naught of this virus you will need 60%-80% of the population to be affected.
I will assume a case fatality rate of 0.3% as per the CDC
With 330 million Americans you would have to be willing to accept almost 600,000 deaths at 60%
Depends how you look at it. You can get herd-ish immunity, the weak spot is new kids being born. Like how adults didn't get chicken pox in the 80s but those of us who were children then did.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Depends how you look at it. You can get herd-ish immunity, the weak spot is new kids being born. Like how adults didn't get chicken pox in the 80s but those of us who were children then did.
New kids being born would be able to get a vaccine and the effects on the <18 y/o are rare and limited. You still have to expect at least 600K deaths. That's a lot of funerals to get herd immunity w/o a vaccine and will don't know the R0 for this virus. You can do it. Sweden didn't come out and say it, but that was the intent. Also, we don't know if immunity is permanent. That would be hard number to swallow if immunity lasts less than a year.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
You can' get herd immunity without a vaccine. I guess you could try. If I were to accept your argument about herd immunity being possible I will allow the best case scenario.

Depending on the R naught of this virus you will need 60%-80% of the population to be affected.
I will assume a case fatality rate of 0.3% as per the CDC
With 330 million Americans you would have to be willing to accept almost 600,000 deaths at 60%
You can get herd immunity without a vaccine, like you said, at least 80% of people need to be infected though. The case fatality rate of 0.3% is suspect though, maybe for elderly and co-morbid it is that percentage. For <60 and healthy it is much lower.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
You can get herd immunity without a vaccine, like yous said at least 80% of people need to be infected though. The case fatality rate of 0.3% is suspect though, maybe for elderly and co-morbid it is that percentage. For <60 and healthy it is much lower.
The doctors I follow at NYU say the case fatality rate is 0.5-1%. The CDC web site says the overall case fatality rate is 0.3% That means lower for younger and higher for older, but overall it's 0.3%. The seasonal flu is 0.1%
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I wonder what @VictorOfHungerGames has to say about the recent spike in hospitalizations now that many states have opened up.

Too bad he got banned.

I liked victor - even though one time he called me a “good little puppet of the media” and I called him a “crackhead”.....

Some of my best bros were born out of a pissing match. I liked the guy
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I liked victor - even though one time he called me a “good little puppet of the media” and I called him a “crackhead”.....

Some of my best bros were born out of a pissing match. I liked the guy
Yea I miss him too. He was one of the few that shared my thoughts although he was a flat earth believer and his views on racism were antiquated, lol.
 
New kids being born would be able to get a vaccine and the effects on the <18 y/o are rare and limited. You still have to expect at least 600K deaths. That's a lot of funerals to get herd immunity w/o a vaccine and will don't know the R0 for this virus. You can do it. Sweden didn't come out and say it, but that was the intent. Also, we don't know if immunity is permanent. That would be hard number to swallow if immunity lasts less than a year.
You specifically said herd immunity without a vaccine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Little more info:
In a study of COVID-19 clusters in Japan, 50% of non-healthcare clusters were seeded by 20-39 year olds. The authors noted clusters associated with heavy breathing in close proximity, such as singing karaoke, talking at bars, or exercising at gyms. https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/9/20-2272_article


spreading.png
 
This straight up says the largest non healthcare setting was live concerts.

I suppose you could argue those were indoor concerts....
 
This straight up says the largest non healthcare setting was live concerts.

I suppose you could argue those were indoor concerts....
They didn't say if it was indoor or outdoor, but I assume indoor. But that was just the largest single cluster. Other venues had more clusters

  • (16%) restaurants or bars;
  • (13%) workplaces;
  • (11%) music-related events, such as live music concerts, chorus group rehearsals, and karaoke parties
  • (8%) gymnasiums;
  • (3%) ceremonial functions;
  • (2%) transportation-related incident in an airplane.

In any event people 20-40 are the people spreading this. It also goes more towards proving the super spreader idea that 20% of the patients acre causing 80% of the infections.
 
You can’t have this luxury and say something ignorant like, “I see all trump supporters as fascists”. You are trying to appear impartial, reasonable, and as though you are thinking critically.

On the other hand you are saying something entirely ignorant.
More and more people starting to use the "F" word. Most because it suits the man.

 
Members don't see this ad :)
New kids being born would be able to get a vaccine and the effects on the <18 y/o are rare and limited. You still have to expect at least 600K deaths. That's a lot of funerals to get herd immunity w/o a vaccine and will don't know the R0 for this virus. You can do it. Sweden didn't come out and say it, but that was the intent. Also, we don't know if immunity is permanent. That would be hard number to swallow if immunity lasts less than a year.
Limited? You never met a kid with msic s/p covid
 
Limited? You never met a kid with msic s/p covid
How many children in the IUS? How many cases of MSIC? It is ridiculously low. Not a single childrens hospital in the world was at or near capaicty from Covid-19 and many childrens hoispitals physicaslloy connected top adult hospitals converted their staff to treat adults during the surge. I don't have the data but basically this is a negligible threat under 18 y/o
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
How many children in the IUS? How many cases of MSIC? It is ridiculously low. Not a single childrens hospital in the world was at or near capaicty from Covid-19 and many childrens hoispitals physicaslloy connected top adult hospitals converted their staff to treat adults during the surge. I don't have the data but basically this is a negligible threat under 18 y/o
Which covers “rare” but I was interpreting your assesment of complications as limited to mean minor. “Minor” is something I would disagree with you but if you meant rare, Then we agree
 
Which covers “rare” but I was interpreting your assesment of complications as limited to mean minor. “Minor” is something I would disagree with you but if you meant rare, Then we agree
It's rare for kids to get this virus , it is rarer still for kids to get Covid-19 and it's even rarer for kids to get MSIC. It's like saying we should not never use Lamictal because of SJS. So it is minor for 99.99% of children.
 
It's rare for kids to get this virus , it is rarer still for kids to get Covid-19 and it's even rarer for kids to get MSIC. It's like saying we should not never use Lamictal because of SJS. So it is minor for 99.99% of children.
So meant “rare”. I agree
 
27k new cases, do we still think it's slowing down?
 
More Houston restaurants announce temporary closures as COVID-19 positives mount

So much for trying to save the economy while letting cases rise and hospital beds fill up.

 
More Houston restaurants announce temporary closures as COVID-19 positives mount

So much for trying to save the economy while letting cases rise and hospital beds fill up.


Wasn't there a guy saying NYC should quarantine, but not TX?
 
people have given up on this thread

hey retail pharmacists. how do you feel about this over 3 months in? it's hard to believe not every retail worker (pharmacy, grocery store, etc) didn't get this virus. we never shut down. we work indoors. i work in one of the smallest pharmacies in my city. it's so small that, if we had gotten broken into, a looter wouldn't even have enough room to take a good swing at the c2 safe. (my point: me and coworkers practically work on top of each other). there's no way break rooms are sanitized properly. ugh. i picked up overtime shifts at other stores and saw the nastiest break rooms. no one wore masks until wayyyyy later.

not trying to sound like a naive "oh i don't know anyone affected so why should it affect me" but we work with the public day in and day out with sick and old people, you think it would have more of a direct effect just because of what we do 40 hours a week with the public. p.s. i work in one of the most densely populated cities in the US/norcal. i went out to bars, restaraunts, gyms, hook ups until the last minute of shut down. lol

it seems so random now. some cities are lucky and some are not.
 
Last edited:
  • Haha
Reactions: 1 user
I actually think unless this has way more asymptomatic cases then even i think, that a majority of retail pharmacists haven't gotten it.

It's not hard to protect yourself.....
 
Pharmacies have been affected. If you work for a chain, only you and those in your geographic area would know the extent that it's affecting pharmacies. It's not going to hit the news unless you are found to be the origin of an outbreak and your store is forced to close
 
Cases have trended upwards nationally over the past week. CA, FL, TX, AZ and others are showing significant increases in positive cases / positive rates / hospitalizations. Even the governor of TX has stated they may need to lock down again if this continues.

One can't help but wonder if another massive wave of cases followed by many states locking down might slap some sense into the stock market. We aren't getting out of this thing until a vaccine is widely available, and any attempt to force reopening without strict masking and contact tracing will result in more spikes.

We could have done this right and been in a much better position, but we are a country full of indignant rednecks who refuse to do anything for the greater good if it causes an inconvenience. Comparing a graph of our active cases to Europe is just embarrassing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
So we will never get full disclosure from Walgreens and CVS on how many of their employees tested positive. I did see in April in my area about 3-4 pharmacies were on the list for public exposure to Covid but I stopped paying attention if more cases popped up. Are different districts in these companies reporting anything? Any "lets close this down for 24 hours to clean" emails?

We saw that healthcare professionals were reporting fewer cases than the general population due to PPE use. I don't think it includes pharmacies though.
 
Wasn't there a guy saying NYC should quarantine, but not TX?

Could have been @VictorOfHungerGames who has been banned.

He was complaining that we overreacted and shut down the economy for nothing because hospitals weren't full. The argument was that only NYC should have been quarantined due to the high number of cases there in March/April.

Lo and behold, we lift the Shelter in Place order and cases start skyrocketing. Texas restaurants are starting to lose customers again.

The myth is that we have to choose between the economy and old peoples' lives. Now that we're opening up everything, we'll end up getting a bunch of people sick/killed AND crashing the economy anyway. The same trend happened in the 1918 pandemic when areas that implemented stronger measures recovered economically sooner than those that did not.
 
Could have been @VictorOfHungerGames who has been banned.

He was complaining that we overreacted and shut down the economy for nothing because hospitals weren't full. The argument was that only NYC should have been quarantined due to the high number of cases there in March/April.

Lo and behold, we lift the Shelter in Place order and cases start skyrocketing. Texas restaurants are starting to lose customers again.

The myth is that we have to choose between the economy and old peoples' lives. Now that we're opening up everything, we'll end up getting a bunch of people sick/killed AND crashing the economy anyway. The same trend happened in the 1918 pandemic when areas that implemented stronger measures recovered economically sooner than those that did not.
Stop comparing 1918 pandemic with this one. The country was not shut down the same way that it is now, there was a lot of revisionist history concocted to rationalize our present lockdown.

About half the nation's workers were farmers and a larger percentage were industry workers. Besides, the economy at that time was not globalized, restarting it was a piece of cake. Our present day economy is vastly different and intimately connected with the rest of the world. Many small business will not survive another shutdown, much less the first.

It's funny how authorities were OK with thousands of people coming out to protest but then feign caution for simple activities like dining out. So they came up with that silly super spreader theory to explain away how its safe to be outside protesting but you can't be inside with other people.

"Cases" will continue to go up and this could be used to rationalize another shut down. We will know in 2 weeks what course of action the rulers of this age will decide for us.

The sheep will continue to be led to the slaughter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Stop comparing 1918 pandemic with this one. The country was not shut down the same way that it is now, there was a lot of revisionist history concocted to rationalize our present lockdown.

I'm not an expert one way or the other on the Spanish Flu, but revisionist history isn't a bad thing like you seem to think it is. It's history as told from the perspective of another person, group, society, etc. It simply challenges the interpretation of events from that of orthodoxy. "Slavery was bad" was originally revisionist history at one point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I'm not an expert one way or the other on the Spanish Flu, but revisionist history isn't a bad thing like you seem to think it is. It's history as told from the perspective of another person, group, society, etc. It simply challenges the interpretation of events from that of orthodoxy. "Slavery was bad" was originally revisionist history at one point.
I agree with you. Historical revisionism is not always bad. You gave a poignant example of American slavery.

However, our current shutdown was partly rationalized from "evidence" that previous lockdowns were beneficial to society. It is not mere coincidence that history is being used as fodder to justify future lockdowns as pointed out by lockdown enthusiasts who are keen on pointing out the 1918 pandemic.

Previous to this coronovirus pandemic, most people didn't even know the Spanish Flu took place in 1918, let alone that "shelter in place" orders were instituted.
 
So I saw face masks being sold at a local Costco, which makes me think we have enough PPEs in our hospitals! The death rate has slowed down even with the number of cases going up. Of course if two weeks from now we see 3k daily death totals, it will make me think otherwise but ya, no one should be locking down. No one will listen anyway.

Lazy, I still don't understand what was the course of action that we were supposed to take. You don't want us to use historical data. You didn't want us to implement measures taken in other places and actually worked. Selective social distancing and lock up 50% of the population (old and vulnerable)? Don't pay attention to this because it is like any other virus that would eventually go away? The only things I got from you is no lock ups and think for yourself. So Beijing has freaked out over a few recent cases. Which secret society has manipulated the human race and managed to get political systems on different side of the spectrum to act so irrationally?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
So I saw face masks being sold at a local Costco, which makes me think we have enough PPEs in our hospitals! The death rate has slowed down even with the number of cases going up. Of course if two weeks from now we see 3k daily death totals, it will make me think otherwise but ya, no one should be locking down. No one will listen anyway.

Lazy, I still don't understand what was the course of action that we were supposed to take. You don't want us to use historical data. You didn't want us to implement measures taken in other places and actually worked. Selective social distancing and lock up 50% of the population (old and vulnerable)? Don't pay attention to this because it is like any other virus that would eventually go away? The only things I got from you is no lock ups and think for yourself. So Beijing has freaked out over a few recent cases. Which secret society has manipulated the human race and managed to get political systems on different side of the spectrum to act so irrationally?
I am glad you realize the lockdowns are not necessary. The initial lack of PPE that was touted by health officials was a deceptive ploy to convince people that a deadly virus exists. It's a subtle psychological technique of implying the existence of something that isn't there by creating a secondary problem (lack of PPE) to prove the existence of the first problem (novel virus). As was the story that this virus supposedly originated in Wuhan, China where a level 4 virus research facility researching coronovirus could have accidentally leaked the virus when a bat infected with the novel virus found its way to a wet market and subsequently in the soup of some poor soul.

The point I was making is that the "historical data" doesn't really exist. Never in human history have the healthy been quarantined. The lockdowns were implemented to destroy the existing economic infrastructure and pave a new one. That is how human history has always evolved. One economic epoch is demolished and a new one is created out of its ashes. From this economic devastation, multiple narratives can play out. One was the race riots instigated shortly after the country was reopened. The riots themselves gave birth to smaller narratives (police defunding). This in itself will lead to other narratives (upcoming 2020 election) and so on.

The narrative of a "pandemic" that will one day sweep the entire world has been playing for centuries. Now that technology and globalization have created "borderless" nations, that narrative has come to full bloom. Is it a coincidence that humanity faces its greatest pandemic at a time that technology and globalization are at their height? Is it a coincidence or luck that the first SARS never took off? Or swine flu, MERS, Zika, Ebola, and whatever else was conjured. The reason is simple, the technology could not be put into place to implement a lockdown. Imagine public health officials in 2003 (SARS outbreak) telling people to stay home and "Netflix and chill." :laugh:

What is unprecedented is not the pandemic itself but the level of cooperation that was shown from virtually every country, even "rogue" states and mafia groups helped ensure people were adhering to lockdowns.

Simply put, there is no NOVEL coronovirus that is killing people. There are several reasons that synergistically work as to why people were dying that can be explained in a scientific manner. This is a RUDIMENTARY list of citations, please do your own thorough research before derailing me.

1) All of the epicenters of the "virus" (Wuhan, northern Italy, parts of Spain, sections of NY city) have horrendous air pollution. Chronic exposure to air contaminants can lead to hypersensitivity immune response driven reaction (ARDS). NO2 poisoning alongside cyanide poisoning (released from manufacturing plants) cause the very symptoms of a respiratory virus. Elderly are more prone to this.


2) Vaccine derived Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). Basically, a particular vaccine can have a component that will later propagate an enhanced immune response to a pathogen. This is ironically very common for coronoviruses. Viral-Induced Enhanced Disease Illness

A new vaccine program was initiated in northern Italy shortly before the pandemic was declared. Flu Shot In Italy: Everything You Need To Know In 2020 | Doctors In Italy "In September 2019 was made available for the first time in Italy a “cell-based” flu shot, called VIQCC or QIVc, that is produced from cultured animal cells rather than eggs "

3) There is one other mechanism that I will not disclose at this time for specific reasons. I am not in a position to do so at the present moment. But rest assure it is a viable source of "new infections."

You may ask what is the end goal of all this? Everything being done is in preparation for the Beast and his kingdom, a kingdom that sprouted in the Garden of Eden and being brought to fruition in this present time.

For it is written: " The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name."

"The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom.... These kings have one purpose: to yield their power and authority to the beast."... For God has put it into their hearts to carry out His purpose by uniting to give their kingdom to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I am dumber for having skimmed through that.
C'mon Old Timer, I expected a more dignified response then "I am dumber for having skimmed through that."

What is it that you can't swallow? Air pollution or ADE, these are all real things. I even gave you bread crumbs so you can do further research.

But of course, why should you investigate matters. It is simple to buy into the status quo and assume that a zoonotic infection caused a global pandemic because some poor Chinese resident of Wuhan ate a bat soup.

Don't skim through readings , I always tell you that the devil is in the details, it might just save your dumb ass :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
2) Vaccine derived Antibody-dependent enhancement (ADE). Basically, a particular vaccine can have a component that will later propagate an enhanced immune response to a pathogen. This is ironically very common for coronoviruses. Viral-Induced Enhanced Disease Illness

A new vaccine program was initiated in northern Italy shortly before the pandemic was declared. Flu Shot In Italy: Everything You Need To Know In 2020 | Doctors In Italy "In September 2019 was made available for the first time in Italy a “cell-based” flu shot, called VIQCC or QIVc, that is produced from cultured animal cells rather than eggs "

Do you have a mechanism of ADE based on QIVc or even TIVc because those already exist in the U.S.

Current global "society" is absolutely done for but unfortunately the being done for was centuries in the making
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
The mechanism should be the same: My conjecture was that the vaccines are designed this way intentionally to evoke this type of immune response.

Here is an article that describes it further: Immunization with SARS Coronavirus Vaccines Leads to Pulmonary Immunopathology on Challenge with the SARS Virus
Every once in a while I take you off of ignore. I always regret it. You are a disgrace to the profession of pharmacy but you are a highly esteemed member of the CECSSA. Clueless, Evil Conspiracy Spreading Society of America.

You cherry pick useless poorly done studies mix them together to weave a tale that would make The Russian Internet Research Agency proud. QANON approved, tin foil hat endorsed BS.

back to ignore you go, under your rock. where you belong. you should in fact be banned from this forum for posting trash. You know what is wore than a lie? Weaving poorly documented information together to tell a tale that is on it's false.

 
  • Like
  • Wow
  • Haha
Reactions: 2 users
Every once in a while I take you off of ignore. I always regret it. You are a disgrace to the profession of pharmacy but you are a highly esteemed member of the CECSSA. Clueless, Evil Conspiracy Spreading Society of America.

You cherry pick useless poorly done studies mix them together to weave a tale that would make The Russian Internet Research Agency proud. QANON approved, tin foil hat endorsed BS.

back to ignore you go, under your rock. where you belong. you should in fact be banned from this forum for posting trash. You know what is wore than a lie? Weaving poorly documented information together to tell a tale that is on it's false.


Bro, why did you blow my cover? Putin is going to demote me now.

This is really getting to you. Why are you so livid?

I didn't make up these scientific studies. These are published by reputable journals and scientists. That's why I listed them as proof for others to verify and do their own research.

Everyone that doesn't agree with you must be a raving conspiracy lunatic. Good luck with that line of thinking.

What is a disgrace is lack of critical thinking. You may ignore me but thousands have read this thread and their thinking will be influenced.

To you I may be under a rock but you will soon be under the ground. Please take the flu shot come this fall. As your user name implies, your TIME has come to an end.
 
Bro, why did you blow my cover? Putin is going to demote me now.

This is really getting to you. Why are you so livid?

I didn't make up these scientific studies. These are published by reputable journals and scientists. That's why I listed them as proof for others to verify and do their own research.

Everyone that doesn't agree with you must be a raving conspiracy lunatic. Good luck with that line of thinking.

What is a disgrace is lack of critical thinking. You may ignore me but thousands have read this thread and their thinking will be influenced.

To you I may be under a rock but you will soon be under the ground. Please take the flu shot come this fall. As your user name implies, your TIME has come to an end.

Old Timer only listens to the mainstream media, where he has convinced himself that only he can be correct because he saw it on the news. Spoon-fed good ole chap who loves to spread fear of COVID, meanwhile still screaming and sneering at his patients for coming to get their meds as well as heckling/harassing anyone who has a fresh haircut.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Old Timer only listens to the mainstream media, where he has convinced himself that only he can be correct because he saw it on the news. Spoon-fed good ole chap who loves to spread fear of COVID, meanwhile still screaming and sneering at his patients for coming to get their meds as well as heckling/harassing anyone who has a fresh haircut.
Yo, I'm getting a fresh haircut every two weeks. I maybe the reason for the resurgence in Covid cases :laugh:
 
Old Timer only listens to the mainstream media, where he has convinced himself that only he can be correct because he saw it on the news. Spoon-fed good ole chap who loves to spread fear of COVID, meanwhile still screaming and sneering at his patients for coming to get their meds as well as heckling/harassing anyone who has a fresh haircut.
Great minds think alike. Fools seldom differ.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I think I'll get on CNN.com and see what I'm going to be told to be angry/upset/scared of today.
They might tell us it's ok to eat indoors as long as we keep our masks on and we just make a small slit for the food to get through :):rofl:
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Top