Official: Harvard 2007

[Sundarban1]

Can anyone **help** me out by shedding some advice on the Harvard post-bacc program? The requirements to this program just seem too simple - only possess an undergraduate bacc. degree? I am confused.

Correct, simply apply and see what they say to you. Worse case sinario is that you will receive your check back in the mail with a letter saying, sorry, we cannot take you because of x,y,z...The great thing is that you can always take the courses on your own if you are rejected from the HCP. You are in the same classes with the same professors, just without the sponsorship option. You can still get LOR's from the professors, etc.

Also, is it true that Harvard accepts more Ive League students?

If you mean the medical school, I would say yes. If you mean the HCP, the answer is no. Although there are many students that come from Ivy league schools, there is great diversity as the academic requirements to get into the program are low compared to other programs, however the hard part is not getting in, but staying in the program.

Moreover, do you know the exact financial requirements?

Do you mean how much the courses are? I believe they are listed on the website. The cost is somewhere between $850-900 per per course/per semester.



In regards to peoples background, GPA, etc..they vary widely. With over 250 students/class there are people with very high and very low GPA's from almost every demographic imaginable. The advice I could give is just apply. If you get a refund check you can still take the courses.

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[dancingdoctor]

Thank you Sunburban for your reply!

I will indeed try to apply for the HCP program...I'll give it a shot..

I have a few more questions that I hope you dont mind answering (or anyone else, for that matter)! You dont have to answer all of them...any advice would help!

Do most students attend the Extension school part-time? I read a statistic of ~8hrs/semester normally, so 2 classes/semester? This seems like a light load-- is it feasible to do 3-4 courses/semester, or is this really difficult, given the challenging course material. What about summer courses- are they more expensive and is financial aid offered?

Are all classes at night? Or can you take some during the day? Are these classes solely designated for Extension school/HCP students? Is there any segregation amongst the non-HCP students and the HCP students (as far as study groups, etc) or is everyone pretty friendly and helpful?

Are people friendly in Boston? How's the snow in the winter?

Lastly, what's the biggest pro and con about attending the Extension school (probably as a non-HCP undergrad. student)?

Thanks!

 

[DoctorPhud]

Do most students attend the Extension school part-time? I read a statistic of ~8hrs/semester normally, so 2 classes/semester? This seems like a light load-- is it feasible to do 3-4 courses/semester, or is this really difficult, given the challenging course material. What about summer courses- are they more expensive and is financial aid offered?

Yes, 3-4 courses a semester is possible, but you probably shouldn't do it. You need to dig yourself out of the hole with your old GPA and you can't afford to do badly. You need A-/A in every class for a lot of classes to make things up, so don't chance it by overloading yourself. If after one semester, you feel that you can take another class and not suffer, then think about it.

The course material is challenging, so you should have the time to read and learn by yourself as well.

You might want to think about doing quite a bit of volunteering during your time at HES... You'll have a better shot if you can submit an application to a medical school/DO school with "My grades aren't great, but I'm a great, community-minded person..."

Summer courses are the same material in a shorter time, and it costs more. Summer general chemistry is 2 semesters in 7 weeks, and it is hard going. It costs c. $4,500 (most summer courses are $2,250 per semester equivalent). You'll find yourself taking the courses with Harvard undergrads, HCP students and high-school students if you use the summer.

Are all classes at night? Or can you take some during the day? Are these classes solely designated for Extension school/HCP students? Is there any segregation amongst the non-HCP students and the HCP students (as far as study groups, etc) or is everyone pretty friendly and helpful?

Most HES courses are during the night (although I believe there are some daytime ones, but I've never taken any during the post-bacc). It's not the case that you can just elect to do a course in the day OR the evening; it is just given once, in one time slot.

HES courses are solely HES students, of which HCP are a subset (but most of the class in Gen. Chem/Phys/Organic/Bio).

There is no segregation in HES course lectures, labs or tutorial groups. Additional study groups are organised by students on an ad-hoc basis, but they are usually very friendly and helpful. As mostly non-traditional students, people are generally very welcoming.

Are people friendly in Boston? How's the snow in the winter?

Lastly, what's the biggest pro and con about attending the Extension school (probably as a non-HCP undergrad. student)?

Most people complain about Bostonians being less than congenial, but they've seemed reasonable to me for the past year. Winters are cold, but the snow isn't too bad - it just hangs around as ice for a while, which is less fun.

Biggest Pro: It's Harvard and people respect it. It seems silly to say it, and it might get some people's backs up, but it does make a difference in success. It's not easy, but if you can keep up with the top students here, you'll do fine later on.

Biggest Con: It's Harvard and it's not for the faint-hearted. The attrition rate is high. The courses here are harder than your local generic community college. One of the reasons that the post-bacc HCP has a good MCAT average and acceptance rate, is because the poor students have given up before that point and aren't counted in the statistics. Most of the post-bacc programmes do this, of course, but the weeding is quite significant here.

I hope that helps you a bit. It really is a good programme and if you come here, you'll definitely have a good experience if you can rise to the challenge. But you do have to dig yourself out of that GPA hole, so you should consider the most effective way of doing that. Perhaps give serious thought to applying to DO schools, which have grade forgiveness - come to HES and just re-take a number of courses so that you can clear the slate that way...

 

[dancingdoctor]

Sounds like a great program! When do most people take the MCATs/apply to med/DO school?

 

[dancingdoctor]

also, do you know the exact attrition rate stat? Thanks DoctorPhud!

are you currently a HES student?

 

[Maxprime]

I bet most drop out in the first year - after the first exam in fall gen chem & physics, I'd say we lost 1/3 of the class. I'm not sure how many of those were HCP people though.

Most people take the MCAT in Spring of their 2nd year and apply that summer.

 

[Maxprime]

If you don't get accepted, you can still take the classes (open enrollment). After putting up a semester of good grades, you should get accepted - but your recent work may be enough of a sign of good faith.

Since you've already taken your pre-reqs, getting into the HCP will only be for sponsorship, so you really just need to get in the semester before you apply to med school.

As for 3 classes, it depends on what they are and what else you have going on. We're in finals right now and my 3 classes are absolutely killing me . . . and any time I have to study for the MCAT (but they're pre-reqs so I don't have a choice). Taking 2 classes and getting a 33 on the MCAT is a ton better than 3 classes with a 30.

For future reference, if any other low-GPA people want to ask me about pulling yourself up from the depths of academia, just PM me.

 

[usethe4ce]

One reason for the high attrition, it seems to me, is that the doors are wide open for anyone who wants to stick their toes in the water and see what it's like. The stereotypical case goes like this (my apologies to anyone for whom this rings a little too true to life):

May: O crap! I've got an Art History degree and I'm flipping burgers for a living! I like helping people, so maybe I should give medicine a shot.
November: O crap! Science is hard! What was I thinking?

Those who actually go for the HCP, rather than just availing themselves of the open enrollment, tend to be more committed, I think. But, then, I haven't witnessed the slaughter in a fall first-year class.

 

[dancingdoctor]

thank you all for your help..the more I learn about this program, the more desirable it sounds.

though ofcourse Im still filled with curiosity...

-do all HES students gain admission to the libraries? (not just HCP students)
-are there any other unfavorable restrictions of a HES student, besides the most obvious ones?
-about what time are most of the classes? What time are they usually over? I suppose it's dark outside by that time...?

anything else I should know?

 

[Maxprime]

The term you'll become familiar with is "degree seeking candidates" - people in the HCP who have never taken pre-reqs before get all the usual benefits of being a harvard grad student or undergrad.

Non-degree seekers get access to a couple of libraries and can be checked in as a guest at any library (make friends!).

Other restrictions . . . maybe the Harvard gym - I never tried to go without an ID. Harvard athletics may be another place where you might get the shaft . . . although, to be completely honest, who strives for attending Harvard athletics?

HES lectures are most often very late in the day - 6-9 or 7:30-9:30, although some are earlier in the day (physio is early Sat mornings).

Anything else? I would definitely make friends with someone with an ID to let you into the Lamont library - it's the main 24 hour library on campus and has a cafe that's open until 1 or 2. Harvard health insurance is an option - if you don't do a lot of regular Dr. visits then just do Mass Health. HHI is great if you need the coverage, but expensive if you don't.

For that matter, reach out to people in your classes - we're all in the same boat. The person next to you in lab probably doesn't know what you're supposed to do either - put your heads together.

 

[Nasrudin]

Dear Harvard extension folks,

Do they accept people into the certificate program who have already completed the prereqs?

How difficult is it to get the classes you need? These would be: biochem, cell bio, and ecology. (I've arranged with my home university to take my last three classes at Harvard Extension to get my degree, but would really like to get them knocked out in a hurry.)

Also when does the schedule for next year come out?

Thanks for any useful input.

 

[usethe4ce]

Wow, summer orgo here must be getting really popular. They have limited the enrollment to 250, and 195 are already registered (vs. 78 in gen chem).

 

[heartmoonstar]

I just finished taking Nyholm's Microbiology and Infectious Disease class, and I made extensive note cards, which are VERY helpful. If anyone is planning on taking the class, feel free to PM me, and I'll arrange a time/place to give them to you. I just don't want to waste them and hope someone else can find them beneficial.

 

[Maxprime]

Wow, summer orgo here must be getting really popular. They have limited the enrollment to 250, and 195 are already registered (vs. 78 in gen chem).

I know a lot of people from gen chem taking orgo this summer (myself included) - I'd say at least 10-15 just in my circle of friends - hopefully lumping us in there will help get us some more points with a curve.

I've also been hearing that a lot of people come here from other Ivys to take it over the summer - what's up with that? I guess the one upside is that it's short - but not exactly fun.

 

[Maxprime]

Dear Harvard extension folks,

Do they accept people into the certificate program who have already completed the prereqs?

How difficult is it to get the classes you need? These would be: biochem, cell bio, and ecology. (I've arranged with my home university to take my last three classes at Harvard Extension to get my degree, but would really like to get them knocked out in a hurry.)

Also when does the schedule for next year come out?

Thanks for any useful input.

Nope on the certificate if you've taken the pre-reqs. You can still get sponsorship though.

Getting the classes you want is easy - I've never heard of anyone not being able to find a spot - although I don't know anyone who's taken ecology.

I'm not sure when they update the course schedule - I can only say that the intro classes (chem/physics/orgo/bio) met the same time this year as last - doubt there's much change every year.

 

[Maxprime]

thank you all for your help..the more I learn about this program, the more desirable it sounds.

though ofcourse Im still filled with curiosity...

-do all HES students gain admission to the libraries? (not just HCP students)
-are there any other unfavorable restrictions of a HES student, besides the most obvious ones?
-about what time are most of the classes? What time are they usually over? I suppose it's dark outside by that time...?

anything else I should know?

HCP meaning degree candidates, right? Degree candidates get all the privilege of undergrad students. Non-degree candidates can get into a few libraries on campus (Cabot, Widener, whatever that one in the yard is).

Other restrictions . . . none that I can think of. I think that if you carry an attitude like you're a Harvard undergrad that it's pretty easy to shoot you down - just a pet peeve of mine. People are lax here - the undergrads don't have an attitude towards us and a lot of undergrads take courses here after graduation b/c they're so much cheaper.

Classes are almost all at night - somewhere in the 6ish to 9ish region. There are exceptions - you can search the course schedule by time.

Anything else? Tons. Everyone is in finals week so people will chime in as the semester winds down. Come here prepared to work hard. You will definitely get what you put into this program.

 

[Sundarban1]

Now that my two years are over and MCAT prep continuing I'll be resigning from the message boards for awhile. I wish all of you the best of luck and if you have specific questions regarding HES please send a PM.

It's been great fun,

 

[NJD519]

I've taken some of the pre-req's already, however, I need Physics 2, organic 2, and A+P. I know that I will not get the diploma for HCP but I was wondering what I should do. Should I just sign up for my own classes, finish the required pre-req's I am missing, and perhaps take some interesting classes, such as neurobiology--all in light of raising my GPA? Or what?

I plan on just taking these classes, do very well, and possibly apply to a SMP soon there after. Does this sound like a decent idea? Also, how does the GPA of post-bacc effect your undergrad GPA, I'm assuming its calculated in as if you were still in undergrad.

ALSO.... haha.. will SMP programs like that I took the outstanding classes that I needed to fill the req'd--and of course to well-- or would it be better to just apply to the HCP and retake everything over?

Let me know guys.. Thx :

 

[Maxprime]

No reason to take everything over unless it was a LONG time ago and you've forgotten everything. Jumping into organic 2 or Physics 2 might be tough, depending on your level of knowledge & abilities in those areas. Everyone else in the class will be fresh off their first semester.

If you have room to take more classes, take something that you're interested in and would look good to ADCOMS - neurobio, microbio, etc.

Even if you're not a degree candidate, you still get advising - speak w/ Dr. Fixsen or Owen Peterson if you want advice from the people that know best.

As for the SMP, if you are finishing your pre-reqs this year, you're not missing much in terms of the MCAT right now. Physics 2 only covers electromagnetism for the MCAT (I think that's it) and organic 2 (I'm told) doesn't have much on the MCAT either. You could take the MCAT in Spring and apply to SMP's in Jan/Feb, then MD programs next summer.

They will like that you took classes related to medical school classes and that you did well. They won't be "impressed" by any means b/c most people in your situation are doing the exact same thing. Don't take everything over if you don't have to though - having 2 sets of pre-reqs is nowhere close to as good as having a set of pre-reqs and some extra stuff you're interested in.

As I always say, remember the full application here. If you're studying for the MCAT and taking 2 classes, unless your application is solid in other areas then another class won't benefit you near as much as research or volunteer experience - food for thought.

 

[NJD519]

Thank you.

I think I'll finish up my pre-req's at Harvard Ext. school. However, I still would like to know how my post-bacc GPA is treated. Is it calculated in with my undergrad GPA?

 

[usethe4ce]

As for the SMP, if you are finishing your pre-reqs this year, you're not missing much in terms of the MCAT right now. Physics 2 only covers electromagnetism for the MCAT (I think that's it) and organic 2 (I'm told) doesn't have much on the MCAT either.

You sometimes see optics from physics 2, and having taken the MCAT just today (yippee! ), I can vouch for what everyone else has told me, that half the orgo centers around the aldol reaction from orgo 2 (thank you, Logan!).

 

[Maxprime]

The post-bacc GPA points factor into your undergrad GPA, but it is seperated out. The AMCAS will show fresh, soph, junior, senior, post-bacc breakdowns - but it all goes in the undergrad GPA.

 

[Maxprime]

You sometimes see optics from physics 2, and having taken the MCAT just today (yippee! ), I can vouch for what everyone else has told me, that half the orgo centers around the aldol reaction from orgo 2 (thank you, Logan!).

First off, congrats on being done.

I stand corrected - optics is a great point - I'm still in the earlier stages of studying but I see optics questions all the time. Electromagnetics comes up a decent amount too - they love those particle accelerators.

My roommate took it as well today - while she was writing it I was at home changing my test date to August so I can take orgo.

 

[NJD519]

Is ANYONE here taking classes "do-it-yourself" style to fulfill your pre-req's that are missing, or is everyone simply taking the HCP?

 

[prav]

I am, pretty much.

 

[Kate6058]

I've already done Chem so I'll be taking Bio, Physics, and Organic at Harvard (starting bio & phys in fall). For those of you there now... will this put me in some other sort of classification?

 

[NJD519]

I am, pretty much.

Did you already take most of your pre-req's? and what classes are you going to take?

Just curious.. I plan on taking Organic and neurobiology in the fall. Then Org. 2 and Physics 2 in the spring.

 

[Mae16]

How much math do I need to review before starting physics and general chem at HES in the fall? Just picked up an Algebra and Trig book and I can't remember any of it (factoring polynomials, logs? yikes! I was happy to say goodbye to this in the 11th grade). Should I know this stuff cold, in advance?

Thanks!

 

[prav]

How much math do I need to review before starting physics and general chem at HES in the fall? Just picked up an Algebra and Trig book and I can't remember any of it (factoring polynomials, logs? yikes! I was happy to say goodbye to this in the 11th grade). Should I know this stuff cold, in advance?

Thanks!

Physics is pretty trig intensive, I would most definitely brush up on trig and algebra skills this summer.

Chem is mostly creative algebra and a few easy manipulations of log.

 

[usethe4ce]

we seriously need an FAQ regarding HES.

Ever have one of those mornings where you wake up and feel like writing a FAQ? Hint: I'm supposed to be writing my essays instead.... .

Anyway, that's what I did. Now what?

 

[Maxprime]

I've already done Chem so I'll be taking Bio, Physics, and Organic at Harvard (starting bio & phys in fall). For those of you there now... will this put me in some other sort of classification?

You can get into the Health Careers Program, but you will not be a certificate candidate - as you've already taken chem. This only limits you from getting a Harvard ID - search the thread for the downsides this poses (I believe that the majority aren't degree candidates and I know it's not a big deal).

 

[Kate6058]

You can get into the Health Careers Program, but you will not be a certificate candidate - as you've already taken chem. This only limits you from getting a Harvard ID - search the thread for the downsides this poses (I believe that the majority aren't degree candidates and I know it's not a big deal).

Right, I've read some stuff about that on the website, but I'm not sure. It'd be nice to get gym and library access. I applied before chem was on my transcript (currently taking it), so maybe it will slip by them? Haha, I don't know.

Serious question, though - for those of you who just finished or are finishingnext year, can you shed some light on sponsorship? I know you have to apply early on. The website doesn't mention anything about the required MCAT score for people who have undergrad GPAs above 3.0. Do they determine sponsorship as they determine how many credits you have to take in the program compared to your undergrad GPA, or is a 30 score the minimum?

 

[Mae16]

One other question. I just posted this on the general non-traditionabl board, but I wanted to get advice from an HES perspective specifically.

Has anyone does this: taken Bio/Chem/Physics together in the fall and the spring, Orgo 1&2 in the summer while studying concurrently for the MCAT, MCAT in August, and applications complete shortly thereafter.

Is it feasible?

Thanks!

 

[Sundarban1]

Orgo 1&2 in the summer while studying concurrently for the MCAT, MCAT in August, and applications complete shortly thereafter.

Is it feasible?

No, you will not have time to study for the August MCAT concurrently while taking Organic Chemisty over the summer.

 

[Sundarban1]

The website doesn't mention anything about the required MCAT score for people who have undergrad GPAs above 3.0
Do they determine sponsorship as they determine how many credits you have to take in the program compared to your undergrad GPA, or is a 30 score the minimum?

The conditions for whether you need a minmum 30 on the MCAT for sponsorship is at their discretion based on your academic history. If you have a greater than 3.0 GPA typically they will not require a specific MCAT score on the condition that you have no other science grades below a B. I know several people with a GPA above 3.0 who were required to get at least a 30 on their MCAT for sponsorship, although they earned at least a B in each class they took at the HES, because of a poor grade in a science class they took in the past. Overall there is no cut and dry answer, which is why it is ambiguous on their website.

 

[Sundarban1]

Ever have one of those mornings where you wake up and feel like writing a FAQ?

I'm working on it, please anyone with specific questions PM me and I will generate a list.

 

[Orchidgal]

Hi,

I'm thinking about taking Bio, Orgo and Physics this upcoming Fall and Spring at Harvard Extension. Have any of you attempted that and what is it like? Do you still have time to work PT? I took these classes as an undergrad over 10 years ago. I got A's in Orgo, B/B+ in Bio and B+ in Physics I think... so I was wondering if I can do the 3 in one year. What are your thoughts? I'm taking Gen Chem right now during the summer.

All the best.

 

[usethe4ce]

I'm thinking about taking Bio, Orgo and Physics this upcoming Fall and Spring at Harvard Extension. Have any of you attempted that and what is it like? Do you still have time to work PT? I took these classes as an undergrad over 10 years ago. I got A's in Orgo, B/B+ in Bio and B+ in Physics I think... so I was wondering if I can do the 3 in one year. What are your thoughts? I'm taking Gen Chem right now during the summer.

You sound a lot like me. Learning something the second time is always quite a bit easier. I was surprised, though, at how much intro biology had changed in fifteen years (or maybe that's just Fixsen). Three courses is manageable for a strong student, but will take up a lot of time between reading, problem sets, and labs, not to mention studying for exams. A part-time job on top of that will begin to stretch you pretty thin. You'll get a taste of that this summer, which is one course at 4x the speed.

 

[Sundarban1]

You sound a lot like me. Learning something the second time is always quite a bit easier. I was surprised, though, at how much intro biology had changed in fifteen years (or maybe that's just Fixsen). Three courses is manageable for a strong student, but will take up a lot of time between reading, problem sets, and labs, not to mention studying for exams. A part-time job on top of that will begin to stretch you pretty thin. You'll get a taste of that this summer, which is one course at 4x the speed.

Indeed, in my opinion not do-able for anyone, regardless of academic ability.

 

[Maxprime]

Indeed, in my opinion not do-able for anyone, regardless of academic ability.

Not to be a pain, but I took 3 courses this year while volunteering first semester then researching part time second semester - I'd say roughly 15-20 hours a week. It was bad, but I know of at least 2 (I think there were probably 5 or 6 total) other people that did the same - you need to have a job/volunteer spot that you can blow off if absolutely needed. Arrogant as it may sound, I believe that everyone who did it will agree that it requires at least average academic talent. Personally, I come from a applied mathematics background - so the problem solving in chemistry and physics came much more naturally. If you haven't worked algebra problems in a few years, I would suspect that the first semester would consist of time getting back into the practice of solving problems.

To anyone that does attempt it, find others who are doing it and band together - scheduling alone becomes a pain (labs, sections, exam dates, etc.).

I am pretty confident that doing any more than 3 pre-req classes and work on the side is impossible if one absolutely must get A's. One in our group was a pretty gifted Harvard undergrad that said the HCP classes were more work than his undergrad classes by a decent amount.

I say this only to inform that it has been done, not to encourage it. If anything, the way to do it is to take gen chem in the summer before taking 3 classes so you can finish with the MCAT. It is a TON of work and you'll have to become comfortable with asking for help as well as not having time to help others. I did weekend MCAT classes (Sat/Sun 6 hours/day) in the Spring and it almost killed me - you have to budget time for the MCAT only after classes are done.

I have also been told that summer orgo is almost the same amount of work as the 3 classes together. I hope that's not true - and I believe that orgo will be ~80% as much work. Juggling multiple classes just adds more hassle, with one awful class you can think about it all the time. I'd definitely use it as a gauge of how you'd do with a tough schedule.

One last note - second semester was much more difficult. Physics became much more difficult and biology started requiring a lot more time.

 

[Maxprime]

One other question. I just posted this on the general non-traditionabl board, but I wanted to get advice from an HES perspective specifically.

Has anyone does this: taken Bio/Chem/Physics together in the fall and the spring, Orgo 1&2 in the summer while studying concurrently for the MCAT, MCAT in August, and applications complete shortly thereafter.

Is it feasible?

Thanks!

Check back in after August - a few are finishing up that very plan. I've been told by Dr. Fixsen that taking the MCAT so close to the orgo final is a bad idea and I don't need to do an app cycle this year, so I pushed to September.

You will be fresh off the material, but (as stated) you won't have much time to study for the MCAT itself. If your verbal score starts out solid and you're a decent standardized test taker, then I think you can get away with this. If you can do all 3 together with A's, I'd be very surprised if you got below an 11 on BS or PS. You have, at the minimum, from the bio final until orgo class starts for nothing but MCAT studying - which is a month plus or minus a couple of days.

Do note that your app will be LATE. If you have a solid app, this shouldn't be much of a concern. For those of us with a more *cough* interesting academic past, this is a huge worry. If I was applying this year, I was going to take the exam earlier (was thinking June/July).

Part of the issue with the new MCAT system is that there is no bimodal surge of applications aligned w/ the May & August. Apps will probably start trickling in early and keep flowing at a relatively steady pace (obviously still w/ some spikes after scores are released).

 

[Kate6058]

Do note that your app will be LATE. If you have a solid app, this shouldn't be much of a concern. For those of us with a more *cough* interesting academic past, this is a huge worry. If I was applying this year, I was going to take the exam earlier (was thinking June/July).

I've read/heard so many varying opinions on exactly how late August is to complete applications, especially if you're just waiting for your MCAT scores (and the Orgo grade) and have your AMCAS otherwise complete in June. Some say it's the end of the world and you'll never get in, others say it's not the earliest possible but you're not applying too late and not to freak out about all the hype. I'm planning to do the Bio-Physics through the year and Orgo in the summer plan, and I want to apply for 2009. I'm going to plow through and do everything I can so that my app is 100% complete the second my MCAT score comes back and apply in August. My attitude is that this plan is best for me, and that's just how it's gonna be. It helps to control all the stress. (btw, Maxprime, I don't mean to be negative about your post. I recognize that applying in August doesn't put you at the front of the line. I just wanted to share my situation).


I have a question for those of you currently in the program. Have you participated in or do you know of anyone doing the pre-med volunteer program over at the Brigham? It sounds like a good deal and that you'd get a lot of exposure, but I'm kind of wary of such a structured program. If you're not there, can you share your opinions of volunteer programs in the Boston hospitals or clinics?

 

[LBostonA]

Hi,

I'm thinking about taking Bio, Orgo and Physics this upcoming Fall and Spring at Harvard Extension. Have any of you attempted that and what is it like? Do you still have time to work PT? I took these classes as an undergrad over 10 years ago. I got A's in Orgo, B/B+ in Bio and B+ in Physics I think... so I was wondering if I can do the 3 in one year. What are your thoughts? I'm taking Gen Chem right now during the summer.

All the best.

I'll be right there with you. Taking all 8 pre-reqs between summer, fall and spring and applying for 2009. I'll be taking some of the material for the first time and repeating some.

I would love to have a chance to get involved in some research during that time as well, but I think that will have to wait until the glide year. It would probably be too much to take on all at once and still expect good grades and MCAT scores. I'll most likely stick to the volunteering/shadowing during school and try to make the most of those.

See you in 2 weeks in Chem lecture

 

[Maxprime]

I've read/heard so many varying opinions on exactly how late August is to complete applications, especially if you're just waiting for your MCAT scores (and the Orgo grade) and have your AMCAS otherwise complete in June. Some say it's the end of the world and you'll never get in, others say it's not the earliest possible but you're not applying too late and not to freak out about all the hype.

I agree 100% that August is probably just fine if you're an average to strong applicant that wants to get in somewhere. Everyone (unfortunately except for me) on this tract that I know have pretty solid apps, so I also believe that applying in August could actually have your app roll in with some other very competitive ones.

At the same time, as you probably/hopefully know more about, I've been told that when you submit your app without an MCAT you get put in the "app came in early, holding for MCAT" pile - which puts you ahead of those that just didn't submit until they got everything in August.

I'm planning to do the Bio-Physics through the year and Orgo in the summer plan, and I want to apply for 2009. I'm going to plow through and do everything I can so that my app is 100% complete the second my MCAT score comes back and apply in August. My attitude is that this plan is best for me, and that's just how it's gonna be. It helps to control all the stress. (btw, Maxprime, I don't mean to be negative about your post. I recognize that applying in August doesn't put you at the front of the line. I just wanted to share my situation).

Nowhere close to any hard feelings - the purpose of this board is to post up opinions, experiences, and ideas. To be completely honest, I had not considered this option (I couldn't start classes until August) - but this seems to be, without a doubt, the lowest-stress way to do the program in a year. In exchange for the delay of the MCAT score, you will have more time during the year to pursue other aspects of your application, etc.

I have a question for those of you currently in the program. Have you participated in or do you know of anyone doing the pre-med volunteer program over at the Brigham? It sounds like a good deal and that you'd get a lot of exposure, but I'm kind of wary of such a structured program. If you're not there, can you share your opinions of volunteer programs in the Boston hospitals or clinics?

I volunteered @ MGH (Mass General) and absolutely loved it - can't say enough good things. I am as certain as one can be at this stage that I will enter a surgical specialty and this opportunity allowed me to observe a ton of surgeries. Note that this experience is not uniform - you have to work in the unit (Same Day Surgery - SDSU) for a few weeks so that everyone gets to know you and doesn't have to worry you're going to flip out in the OR. The best, and most painful, shift is in the morning - where you help check in patients and help them with paperwork instead of just discharging patients. When I say morning, I mean 6-10am. But this shift gets to know what procedures are done by which surgeons and how the whole floor works. I got some great shadowing experience by nurses literally saying, "Dr. _____, this is ____, he's a pre-med student. Do you care if he tags along with you today?" These simple requests translated to 6 or 7 hours straight in the OR discussing the issues of modern health care while watching some very cool procedures - one of my best experiences in Boston.

At MGH (hoping this will be searched on later), I also knew people who really enjoyed working in the children's oncology and emergency departments. Pediatric oncology was a very personal experience and the person that did this got to interact with the same patients over time - sounded like a great experience. The ED has a radiology position where you, to quote this person being completely honest, "Transport people to radiology who are ALL KINDS of f-d up." This person got to see countless CT's, a decent number of procedures, and get a great feeling for how the ED really works.

At B&W, I only know someone who is doing research there after being a volunteer for a short time. I only mention this in case you want to eventually be on a research project - the networking as a volunteer is (surprisingly) extremely helpful. Don't bother them, but definitely take any opportunity you have to ask if they would let you tag along.

As a general note - I think that most feel guilty bothering a busy doc, but you'll often find them happy to include something new and different in their day. There is one older attending @ MGH that loves teaching - so if there isn't a med student or resident on the case, he'll talk you through the procedure as he does it. Put yourself in their shoes, doing their 3,000th appendectomy is no highlight of their week, but teaching at least makes it interesting.

This applies across the board - always ask, a no doesn't hurt that much. I had a surgical resident at a hospital outside of Boston allow me to go on call with him - he said he'd much rather have someone to talk to. Hours later, I partly regretted it after he got paged to the ER at 4am for the third time but in actuality it was a TON of fun and a solid dose of reality.

Sorry for getting so preachy & long-winded, I just get really excited about this stuff.

 

[Kate6058]

Thanks for all the info! I started thinking about MGH as well, only it's a pain that it's farther away and less convenient to my schedule than Longwood is... but oh well. Right now I'm a child life volunteer at the children's hospital in Pittsbugh and while I like being around the kids and get to see a lot... well, that's it. I only get to look, and I'm not supposed to be staring since child life is all about being non-medical, but I can't help it! So I really want to get more hands-on experience, probably somewhere like an ED.

The major upside to the Brigham's program is that it culminates with a letter of recommendation and rounds with a doc. You have to complete 120 hours to get to this point, I believe. This is why I was wondering if anyone has done this program... is this worth it? I don't know... I somehow have a better feeling about MGH.

 

[Orchidgal]

Thanks for the email. I am taking General Chemistry this summer at UMASS Boston - I was concerned about it's State school status but the Ext School Health Careers office said it would be all right. And the Harvard Summer Course is much shorter in length. Honestly, UMASS ended up being affordable.

I am concerned about the fall and heard that Bio is a major weeding out course - say 1/3 to 1/2 after the first exam. I intend to get all A's too.

 

[Sundarban1]

Not to be a pain, but I took 3 courses this year while volunteering first semester then researching part time second semester - I'd say roughly 15-20 hours a week

That's great, but you represent 0.01% of your classmates. It's not advisable, and downright bad advice to give anyone the impression that taking 3 classes plus a part time job is something to consider. And yes, you are a pain.

 

[usethe4ce]

3 classes + 15 hrs/wk commuting + 2 volunteer gigs + 1 addiction to Lost = no time left to work on my personal inventory until now

 

[Mae16]

What time are labs at HES? Are they other week nights, or during the day?

 

[Maxprime]

What time are labs at HES? Are they other week nights, or during the day?

They vary a lot - Bio is during normal lecture time (no lecture during lab weeks). Chem and Physics have a bunch of different times - Physics times are here:
http://courses.dce.harvard.edu/~physe1b/

Gen chem site is no longer accessible for last semester's students. I believe that most of them are on nights, but I know that there are morning sections on Wednesday.