Official: Harvard 2007

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I've been stalking this forum since April and learning a great deal about the program even though I thought I had done all my research and answered all my questions.

You guys are all awesome and super helpful.

To quote a drunk Ted from "How I Met Your Mother":

"<Posters of this thread>, you've always taken care of me. You are gentlemen and scholars!
Go into my stable and take my finest stallion. He's yours. His name is Windjammer."

BTW, you'll probably see me around. My name is Kush, I'm a recent Cal grad (Go Bears!) out here trying to take advantage of the Mecca for healthcare that the Boston/Cambridge area is. I look forward to freezing my ass off and meeting all of you who will be starting this fall.

I came into town a couple weeks ago and have gotten settled. If anyone wants to kick it, feel free to PM me and I promise I'll get back to you ASAP.

All the best,

K
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Lokhtar said:
Yea, I am not worrying about the MCAT per se, I am just worried on missing out on the sponsorship after spending 2 years at Harvard.
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Doesn't the MCAT score you have to hit for sponsorship depend on your ugrad gpa also? If you had above a 3.0, I don't think you necessarily need a 30. Has anyone who currently posts here achieved sponsorship?
 
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The bottom line re: sponsorship is that it's their decision as to whether an applicant will be required to attain a 30 on the MCAT, regardless of what GPA you have. This is not on their website, but something to keep in mind when you apply.
 
The calm before the storm. . . . : )
 
Yes, you can use calculators. Math is important. They have a suggested review that you should check out, which should be posted on the course website. Taking time now to brush up on it will serve you well once the course picks up speed.
 
If anyone is looking for tutor information please PM me. We had the best Ochem, Chem, Physics tutors out there ;)
 
My 2nd week taking 3 upper-division science courses...


My thoughts so far: Beyond the 1st day or so the history and awe of the buildings of the place do not sustain themselves beyond the impersonal blandness of the way the courses are taught. The classes are as large as any state school. I have noticed a similar pattern when looking at the elite University of California institutions--the more prestigious the reputation the worse off undergraduates are for having to swim through the **** at the bottom of the hill.

It's reasonably priced. That's about all I can say about it. That and the fact that one of its libraries has the same operating budget as my home state's entire education budget. But it's the same game on a nicer field. Don't go out of your way to come here. I actually have a greater appreciation for the equivalent instruction my 3rd tier state school strung together with shoe strings, bubble gum, and duck tape.
 
Lokhtar said:
Well, I am sure you can learn anywhere. The issue is that with sponsorship, it has about a 90% acceptance rate at medical school, which I found to be fantastic considering that they are nowhere near as selective as the other schools.

I'm thinking about going purely for that reason. They work you hard, but apparently if you make it, it means something to adcomms.
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Well. I wouldn't buy that statistic, frankly. There's any number of ways schools can manipulate this type of claim.

As to the whorish nature of adcoms and reputations. Maybe.

These types of courses are hard work no matter where you go. It's just the en-culturation of prestige that convinces people of the supremacy of their own back yard.
 
Lokhtar said:
Undoubtedly, but the purpose of most guys in here is to get into medical school and regardless of whether it actually gives you a better education is secondary to the fact that it would give you a better chance of admission into med school. Goucher for example, doesn't really teach anything that everyone else doesn't, but its the reputation that has given them 100% acceptance rate. I dunno, I'm obviously ignorant as I haven't started the post-bac yet, but just going by what I hear.
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point taken. I guess it's only by chance that I'm here. reputation has never been a factor in my decisions. but I think your logic is sound. there is some hokus pokus to reputation that seems to get the job done in this game. best of luck to you.
 
Nasrudin said:
My 2nd week taking 3 upper-division science courses...


My thoughts so far: Beyond the 1st day or so the history and awe of the buildings of the place do not sustain themselves beyond the impersonal blandness of the way the courses are taught. The classes are as large as any state school. I have noticed a similar pattern when looking at the elite University of California institutions--the more prestigious the reputation the worse off undergraduates are for having to swim through the **** at the bottom of the hill.

It's reasonably priced. That's about all I can say about it. That and the fact that one of its libraries has the same operating budget as my home state's entire education budget. But it's the same game on a nicer field. Don't go out of your way to come here. I actually have a greater appreciation for the equivalent instruction my 3rd tier state school strung together with shoe strings, bubble gum, and duck tape.
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I'm quite surprised by your response. Which courses are you taking? Despite the size of the classes, I have had the opposite experience.

I am very interested to see if your impression changes over the coming months or whether it remains the same. Please post.
 
Just a point to make that although there are many science classes offered here at HES, the four classes that are required for medical school are tightly monitored by the head of the HCP and very good courses. The teachers of these courses (aside from Ochem, who now has the best professor of all IMO) have been teaching the same course for years and have a great reputation. The upper divison courses are more variable in the level of instruction as professors seem to come and go more often. Take it for what you like, but you will be more than prepared to do well on the MCAT if you take your pre-req classes here. Good luck.
 
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Sundarban1 said:
Just a point to make that although there are many science classes offered here at HES, the four classes that are required for medical school are tightly monitored by the head of the HCP and very good courses. The teachers of these courses (aside from Ochem, who now has the best professor of all IMO) have been teaching the same course for years and have a great reputation. The upper divison courses are more variable in the level of instruction as professors seem to come and go more often. Take it for what you like, but you will be more than prepared to do well on the MCAT if you take your pre-req classes here. Good luck.
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Indeed. I am sorry to have mislead anybody seeking to take the prereqs here. I defer to this individual and those who have taken those courses.

My only intention was to point out that if you, like me, came here expecting to see another level in your education, think twice. My instructors were better and more accessible at my home institution. Secondly that there is at least some correlation in the shift of priority (read not you the student) as you climb the prestige ladder in higher education.

Hopefully the pre-health program is an exception as indeed the experienced people here have indicated. good luck all.

pm me later in the semester and I will give any info I can on a few upper division courses and instructors.
 
AnotherPreM said:
And you're basing that on one week of classes???
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If my opinion does not fit your criteria disregard it. Or better yet offer your own perspective to the contrary. I'm fresh out of things to prove to strangers.
 
Lokhtar said:
Undoubtedly, but the purpose of most guys in here is to get into medical school and regardless of whether it actually gives you a better education is secondary to the fact that it would give you a better chance of admission into med school. Goucher for example, doesn't really teach anything that everyone else doesn't, but its the reputation that has given them 100% acceptance rate. I dunno, I'm obviously ignorant as I haven't started the post-bac yet, but just going by what I hear.
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Goucher, Scripps, and BM have 100% acceptance rates because the students they accept in their program are ones that are essentially guaranteed to get into medical school if they finish the program. Having been pretty involved in admissions w/ one of the top 3 programs, I can tell you that the quality of applicants to these programs is exceptional. There are people being rejected or waitlisted with 3.9+ GPA and high test scores, in many cases b/c of fit or because the adcoms felt they didn't demonstrate a passion for a career in medicine. Since students are so carefully selected (and prepared), they tend to do exceptionally well in admissions, and keep in mind that a huge percentage of students, (as high as 50+%) at these schools link, with guaranteed conditional acceptance.

Although I agree with Nasrudin's claim that admissions percentages can be skewed and manipulated to some degree, the HES program has had a great deal of success given their lower level of selectivity for admissions, which likely implies that the students are well-prepared.
 
I'm curious as to where Nasrudin went to school because I graduated from a top-20 school and took classes as a summer student at a third-tier institution back at home. HES classes manage to bridge the gap between great instruction so that basic concepts are easier to learn and making the classes challenging enough so that one will be able to conquer the MCAT. Most top institutions make the classes into total weeders. Third-tier schools tend to spoonfeed and grade-inflate to the point that many of my friends from TTT's got a big surprise when they sat down to take the MCAT-and it wasn't a good one.

The only problem that I have heard about from other students within the HCP is poor support from some of the counselors. Otherwise, I'm really impressed at the enthusiasm and aptitude of the instructors and of my fellow students, the atmosphere of collaboration encouraged by the program and the range of options for scheduling.

About the 90% acceptance rate, I would venture to argue that it is a combination of both the open-enrollment option and the preparedness of the students. During my time at the HCP, I've met everyone from career-changers to those who need a serious boost to their science GPA or overall GPA. What I notice across the board is a will to work hard and a really strong desire to enter the health professions. Judging from some of the very unlikely success stories on this board, I think that those two qualities are key to post-bac success.
 
cloverpie said:
I'm curious as to where Nasrudin went to school because I graduated from a top-20 school and took classes as a summer student at a third-tier institution back at home. HES classes manage to bridge the gap between great instruction so that basic concepts are easier to learn and making the classes challenging enough so that one will be able to conquer the MCAT. Most top institutions make the classes into total weeders. Third-tier schools tend to spoonfeed and grade-inflate to the point that many of my friends from TTT's got a big surprise when they sat down to take the MCAT-and it wasn't a good one.

The only problem that I have heard about from other students within the HCP is poor support from some of the counselors. Otherwise, I'm really impressed at the enthusiasm and aptitude of the instructors and of my fellow students, the atmosphere of collaboration encouraged by the program and the range of options for scheduling.

About the 90% acceptance rate, I would venture to argue that it is a combination of both the open-enrollment option and the preparedness of the students. During my time at the HCP, I've met everyone from career-changers to those who need a serious boost to their science GPA or overall GPA. What I notice across the board is a will to work hard and a really strong desire to enter the health professions. Judging from some of the very unlikely success stories on this board, I think that those two qualities are key to post-bac success.
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Forget I mentioned it. I agree with what you are saying, but I feel like the only guy who's booing at a Yanni concert. Have at this place y'all.
 
Lokhtar said:
As a future student, I'd like all opinions :).
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Well my friend, the individuals who really got a lot out of their HCP program are who should listen to in regards to rating your potential fit. I'm a bit of an odd case with certain expectations that were ill-placed. I am making a relativist point, not one by absolute comparison. It's merely an aside or a footnote to someone who might imagine, like myself, that the title "Harvard" meant that the experience would be abnormally rich. Not so in my case. But the point in this HCP thread is coming off as obtuse. So I take my leave. Good luck all.
 
Good luck to everyone this semester - learn how to map those bacterial chromosomes - they're ALWAYS on Fixen's 3rd exam.
 
So I'm a senior, interested in doing HCP, but for those of you who are experts with HES and the program, here are my stats:

Cornell University, Class of 2008
UG science gpa: 2.12
UG non-science gpa: 3.57
Cum gpa: 3.00

I've taken all my pre-reqs and received grades ranging from a D (orgo II) to an A (physics lab).

My grades show an upward trend (Dean's List last two semesters!!), and I still have 2 semesters of grades left.

So my questions are:

1) What courses would I need to take over? Anywhere I got a C- or below?
2) When should I apply to HCP?
3) What is the acceptance rate to HCP?
 
docturnal said:
So I'm a senior, interested in doing HCP, but for those of you who are experts with HES and the program, here are my stats:

Cornell University, Class of 2008
UG science gpa: 2.12
UG non-science gpa: 3.57
Cum gpa: 3.00

I've taken all my pre-reqs and received grades ranging from a D (orgo II) to an A (physics lab).

My grades show an upward trend (Dean's List last two semesters!!), and I still have 2 semesters of grades left.

So my questions are:

1) What courses would I need to take over? Anywhere I got a C- or below?
2) When should I apply to HCP?
3) What is the acceptance rate to HCP?
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1) General consensus is re-take any pre-req with a C or below.
2) Apply whenever (now works) - rolling admissions.
3) Just give it a shot.

(can't read Cornell without thinking Andy Bernard)
 
Hey all,

Just had a few questions about the Health Careers Program.

First, is there an application deadline? I didn't think there was until I saw this on the site: "You must apply no later than September 28 of the year preceding application to medical school" (http://www.extension.harvard.edu/2007-08/programs/hcp/admit/). Is that just with regards to sponsorship? Can I apply for the HES HCP now, enroll in the summer or fall of 2008 and also apply to medical schools at this time? I obviously don't expect to receive any sponsorship as I would have only been in classes for a couple of weeks, but if all goes well, maybe I wouldn't need it? (and if all doesn't go well, I could then apply for sponsorship for my future applications, correct?)

Second, I did all of the science requirements needed to apply to med school in undergrad and would prefer to take some upper level material I have not yet been exposed to. The Medical Sciences courses I would have to take in order to qualify for sponsorship, however, all seem to be lower division (http://www.extension.harvard.edu/2007-08/courses/mdsc.jsp). Are there other courses one can take and still qualify for sponsorship?

Third, I am a bit confused as to how much all this would cost and how long it will take. As my GPA is over 3.2 I will only need 20 credits in order to qualify for sponsorship - will this be doable in one year? And what category will I fall into when it comes to tuition? Noncredit, undergraduate credit or graduate credit?

Thank you very much for reading this and for any help you can provide. My apologies if I was a bit long-winded :laugh:.
 
thanks for the reply with the good news! Does everyone agree with this? Sorry, just kinda paranoid.
 
Lokhtar,

Your super cool, just thought you should know.
 
There is no "auto admit" policy for those with a 3.2 GPA or higher that I am aware of. However, I've yet to see anyone with a decent GPA denied. Good luck.
 
I'm sure you all know much about the program already.
Without getting into details (you can look up my old postings for details), I will just say that you can count on this program to prepare you well for the MCAT and increase your success of getting into not just any med schools but the top competitive ones as well (if you care).

Just from my class (02-04) I know that many of us went into top 10 schools including Harvard and CA schools (if you are from CA).

I had so much free time the 2 years I was in Cambridge. I took only two courses as recommended and didn't work. I did get all A's because math is easy to me. I had to study hard (meaning memorize all) for Ochem. The point is it's not too hard, and you don't have to do all sorts of things just to impress the admissions. Just focus on the two science courses you are taking and enjoy the free time doing what you like. Get Examcrackers for MCAT and do the best. In the end what makes the difference is your MCAT scores; the difference between going to top 10 vs top 20 for example. If you get 36 and up, you will be asked to come by most top schools. Know that your life experiences as adults will work for you during admissions. Is it hard to get into med schools as non-trads? No, on the contrary it's getting easier. I am from an unknown undergrad, over 30yr old, with no extracurricular activities other than enjoying talking to old folks, working as physics TF and as a bio lab assistant while waiting for a year.

What I want to tell you is this: Make sure medicine is what you really want to do. If it's money, don't come in. It's getting harder and harder to make money in this. The path is just too much work and long (at least 7yrs after starting med school). You make less than $200k after 7yrs of non-stop hard works and life sacrifices. A dental student makes $100k just after 4yrs and in 7yrs over $300k; all this without going through the hellish residency. Ask why Dermatology and Radiology are so difficult to get in. It's simply because one can make around $300k working 9-5. Well, two of my dentist friends are making over $300k 10-5 Mon-Thurs. All this comparison is without mentioning the whole daily ordeals with insurance and HMOs as physicians.

Ask yourself before you actually end up getting into med schools (which will happen if you want to). Is it money? Lifestyle? Then, go to dental or something else. If it's medicine itself and what you can do as a physician, then you will go to sleep every night feeling good despite your long training. Then med school is not too hard. It's just discipline having to memorize things every day.

Another advice for those of you applying to med schools. Make sure you check the curriculum (frequency of tests, grading system and mandatory lecture hrs) of each school. Interestingly, the higher the rank the school is, the easier life you will have. I'm sure there are exceptions to this. But you will know what I mean once you get into the thick of med school life.

Once again it's a fact I learned after I got in. Derm is the top residency. And it's not because it's a hard, demanding discipline but simply because so many med students want to get in. Why? After 3yrs of draining life (4th yr is easy) and looking ahead many more years of harsher life with less than minimum wage, people start thinking LIFESTYLE!. Well, it would be wiser to seek lifestyle from the start and do something more guaranteed than trying to get into Derm.
 
yes they did. And all i had to do was write it in, they took my word for my score. I suppose someone could ink in anything they want, but honesty is the best policy.

Sucks for me, because i did not study one second, i just walked in and took it, so of course my score was not off the charts, i just did not care at the time. But i think now i can score respectively, HOPEFULLY hit that 30 mark. I am looking at osteopathic right now, but i do want that sponsorship.
 
I will get all buddy buddy with owen and put in a good word for you. I be like "hey that Lokhtar cat is a real winner. you let him in" so dont worry i've got your back.
 
Lokhtar said:
You can get in if you have never taken any of the basic sciences before.
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With the exception of science for non-science major classes (ie 3 credit biology with no lab section.)
 
Lokhtar said:
Cool. BTW, what happened to your tutor info? You never PMed me. :p
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just pm me again and tell me what class your looking for. i must have deleted it by accident.
 
Lokhtar said:
Guys, what is your total monthly expense living in Boston (I've never lived in a city that expensive?) I think I can get a part time job with good money (around $35-40/hour), but I don't want to work more than 15-20 hours (I've heard the difficulty of the schoolwork). And I'll be working from home so there is no commute to worry about. Is it possible to break even with rent/food/tuition etc (or at least come close so I am not in the hole more than $500/month)?
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depends on where you live and who you live with. single studios close to public transport typically go for 6-800/month and 1br 800+, 2br 1400+, etc.....if you have a roommate or multiple roomates you can live as inexpensive as you want. rent and tuition are going to stay the same, food..well that depends on where and what you eat.
 
hi harvard postbaccs,

i could use some advice on HES' program. specifically my questions are:
a) how good is the TA support for the premed classes? are there plenty of opportunities to ask for help and receive it or are you left alone in a large class, particularly bad if you are struggling already?

b) how large are the classes and do you have sections with TAs?

c) what is the average age of people enrolled?

lastly, i am canadian and hence want to study in n.america, but have already got into a british medical school. there are complications with coming back to qualify after having graduated from the uk. any advice on whether i should start the long premed route and do it the right way or go to the uk?

thanks much!

osmosis
 
thanks so much!
if you or anyone else reading on this thread could just reply to the harvard related questions, that would be much appreciated.

best,
o.
 
osmosis said:
thanks so much!
if you or anyone else reading on this thread could just reply to the harvard related questions, that would be much appreciated.

best,
o.
Click to expand...

The classes are on the larger size - I'd say between 250-300. With that said, the amount of assistance offered is wonderful. You will be assigned a TF (teaching fellow) for section and another (may be the same individual) for lab. From my experience, the section TFs are very dedicated, sincere, and helpful. They are either Harvard undergrads or post-bac students a year or two ahead in the process. In either case, they are very bright. In addition, the chem courses (gen and orgo) have a weekly review session conducted by the head TF. Keep in mind that this session is in addition to the weekly review session with your own TF. Needless to say, they go out of their way to have assistance available to you.

From a quick look around, the average age is probably somewhere in the mid to late 20s (I'd say 28ish). Many student are in their early 30s as well. I've also come across people in their late 40s and a couple in their 60s. People take these courses for various reasons. . . .

As for your question regarding starting it all over again here in the US, I can merely offer you my unsubstantiated opinion. The UK has excellent medical training. You can always apply for residency in the US. If your ultimate goal is to practice medicine, why delay it any longer?
 
Where are you getting 35 bucks an hour?

If you work for Harvard, your HES courses are 50 bucks a pop after 90 days of working at Harvard. Office jobs pay 19.80 an hour.
 
You may be able to get on Harvard's payroll doing the same sort of thing for the same money (with full benefits, including tuition almost free).
 
Hope it works out for you.

Thank the $39b endowment. ;p
 
Lokhtar said:
Just looked at the site, and there actually does seem to be a lot of jobs @ Harvard, and many of them P-T that would be great. Thank you for the tip. :thumbup:
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Would you mind posting a link to the job bulletin?
 
CrazyLikeAFox said:
Thanks, i thought he was looking at the extension website.... now i feel like an idiot....


Anyhow, one more question. Is the extension school on or very close to the main campus?
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it's the same campus, same buildings, same classrooms.
 
CrazyLikeAFox said:
Thanks, i thought he was looking at the extension website.... now i feel like an idiot....


Anyhow, one more question. Is the extension school on or very close to the main campus?
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The science center is located in the freshman dorm area in Harvard square. This is where all the HES science classes are held. Harvard's main undergraduate campus is across the river.
 
Lokhtar said:
Is it advisable to do the following?

Fall Year 1: Chem I & Physics I
Spring Year 1: Chem I & Physics I
Summer: Bio 1 & 2
Fall Year 2: O-Chem I & Biochem
Spring Year 2: O-Chem I & Genetics
Click to expand...

You do not need biochem or genetics for the MCAT. You will get PLENTY of genetics and biochem in Bio 1 and 2, so take them in the second year and if you so please take genetics and biochem in the lag year. Besides, form what I'm hearing from students currently in biochem this year is pretty much a joke and a waste of money; students learned more in general bio with Fixsen. Furthermore, you will save money and can use the summer to review rather than hurry into classes you don't really need. Bio (especially experimental bio) is very high yield on the MCAT, so don't rush the class.
 
Sundarban1 said:
You do not need biochem or genetics for the MCAT. You will get PLENTY of genetics and biochem in Bio 1 and 2, so take them in the second year and if you so please take genetics and biochem in the lag year. Besides, form what I'm hearing from students currently in biochem this year is pretty much a joke and a waste of money; students learned more in general bio with Fixsen. Furthermore, you will save money and can use the summer to review rather than hurry into classes you don't really need. Bio (especially experimental bio) is very high yield on the MCAT, so don't rush the class.
Click to expand...

I'm currently in biochem. At week 8, we're still reviewing what we learned in bio/gen chem with the exception of a few enzyme and intermediate names that I'm sure I'll forget before I walk out of the room after our next exam.

Just follow the typical schedule. Those courses are taught extremely well and will cover everything that you'll need to know. I seriously don't know how many times that needs to be said.
 
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