Official: Harvard 2007

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I'm currently in biochem. At week 8, we're still reviewing what we learned in bio/gen chem with the exception of a few enzyme and intermediate names that I'm sure I'll forget before I walk out of the room after our next exam.

Just follow the typical schedule. Those courses are taught extremely well and will cover everything that you'll need to know. I seriously don't know how many times that needs to be said.

I'm in there with you. I agree with you, it is basically an inane review so far but as I took general bio and chem spread out over the last couple of years it is a rather nice coincidence to be reviewing it before the MCAT. Additionally, I think this thread tends towards a myopic perception of itself because it is composed of largely very mature and motivated students who are at the very top of the talent pool in each class. For example, despite being as you say a review, there was still a fat bell curve around a C, with only 20 A's out of 100+ students.

One more thought: For a fellow of modest means and even more modest aspirations for the continued study of science, I can say that I prefer a review of the basics to any ambitious jargon heavy class directed at those going on in science. I have a direct comparison along these lines between biochem and another class. So hooray for a review of the basics. I highly recommend Dr. Mann for any undergrad seeking professional school admittance.

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It's about taking courses to satisfy the adcoms that I was worried about, more than if I absolutely need a class for the MCAT.

You mean satisfy the general medical school requirements? I believe I was told at the last medical school adcom lecture that the first week of medical biochem will surpass the first semester of undergrad biochem. In any event, trust me as someone who has been through these classes and the MCAT, there is no need to rush general bio over the summer to get in genetics and biochem; two subjects that are thoroughly covered in general biology.
 
Hi all!
I was hoping some more seasoned HCP students could help me in deciding which upper level science classes to take this coming spring semester. I'm looking for a class that's relatively easy (unlike Immunology) and helps somewhat for the MCAT Bio section. Has anyone taken or heard anything about Genetics (w/ Prof Bieber) or Developmental Bio (w/ Prof Wingert)? If so, could you please let me know what you think of these classes. Or is there another upper level bio class you would strongly recommend? Thanks a bunch for the help!
 
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You mean satisfy the general medical school requirements? I believe I was told at the last medical school adcom lecture that the first week of medical biochem will surpass the first semester of undergrad biochem. In any event, trust me as someone who has been through these classes and the MCAT, there is no need to rush general bio over the summer to get in genetics and biochem; two subjects that are thoroughly covered in general biology.

Right, but I need the GPA improvement :).
 
Right, but I need the GPA improvement :).

Indeed. However, you can take those classes in the lag year, there is no need to take them concurrently with the courses which are required. I put emphasis on this because the classes themselves are demanding and not to say noone can handle that schedule, but many students find the core classes more than enough. With a low GPA, your focus should be on doing well in the required pre-reqs and MCAT, and then worry about your GPA. After all it's the overload aspect that keeps a lot of low GPA candidates from excelling at the core requirements. In any event, good luck.
 
Hi all!
I was hoping some more seasoned HCP students could help me in deciding which upper level science classes to take this coming spring semester. I'm looking for a class that's relatively easy (unlike Immunology) and helps somewhat for the MCAT Bio section. Has anyone taken or heard anything about Genetics (w/ Prof Bieber) or Developmental Bio (w/ Prof Wingert)? If so, could you please let me know what you think of these classes. Or is there another upper level bio class you would strongly recommend? Thanks a bunch for the help!

Genetics and developmental Bio will be covered sufficiently in general bio. Immunology is a great class, although no class is tougher than general bio IMO.
 
I called today and they told me they are sending out notifications starting next week for Fall 2008. Yay! can't wait.
 
For interested people looking for a good instructors in the lag year.

I recommend Dr. Cheryl Vaughan for Cell Bio. I am taking her for another course which is altogether painful but more because of my interest in being done and not studying the more esoteric annals of science and not because of her. I am also in close contact with a classmate who had her for cell bio.

She is a punchy lecturer with a command of her material. You will not go to sleep. You can get to the B range while going through the rote motions and then all you have to do is pay attention for a few key inferences she will ask you to make. Her tests are challenging but fair and certainly reasonable to do well on if you put in some time.


I also as previously mentioned recommend Dr. Mann for Biochem for her overall organization of the course and very good natured support. She runs a good team of very competent TA's. She lacks Vaughan's stage presence but she also makes it easier to study the material by clearly laying everything out in detail.


I don't presume to know the ins and outs of this school but my overall assessment of it is good but not as good as some people make it out to be. I've attended 4 American universities...so far they are all more or less the same. Additionally there seems to be a buy in into the dynamics of prestige sustainment on behalf of the people that go here. My studymate tried to tell me in the first week as I told him that I was a little intimidated, in a rather self-satisfied way, that I was now at a real place of learning and that the game was at a different level here.


Uh....nope. Going into finals with comfortable A's. This place is no more than ahright. And it is not any harder to well here than elsewhere.
 
I called today and they told me they are sending out notifications starting next week for Fall 2008. Yay! can't wait.

I found out about 3 weeks ago for fall 08 so they have already sent out some acceptance letters.
 
Ok Hahvad postbackers, here's a question for you.

Is the HES program worth it if you don't qualify for the sponsorship program? That is, I took Physics 1 and 2 in UG school (7 years ago) and the HES website says you can't re-take courses. So, that seems to knock me out of the running for the sponsorship option.

Here's the deal. I have an interview scheduled at Bryn Mawr in January. I'm also applying a few other programs too. HES seems nice because of the tuition and the success rate of those who finish with good numbers. I'm wondering if I should also apply to HES (kindof as a backup) since they seems to have somewhat relaxed admission standards. I did my BS, MS, and PhD in Math so Physics was the only pre-req I took as an UG. Would the HES program seem like a good fit for a person in my position?

Thanks for your time and thoughtful replies! Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks,

Gator :thumbup:
 
You can still get sponsorship, you just can't qualify for their 'certificate'. Also, if you get into Bryn Mawr, go there.

P.S. Much respect for math PhDs.
 
Is the HES program worth it if you don't qualify for the sponsorship program?

The tuition is great. That and the evening schedule (I work during the day) were why I originally went with HES. And in my opinion, the basic science instruction is excellent. Whether that all makes it worth it to you, I can't answer.

That is, I took Physics 1 and 2 in UG school (7 years ago) and the HES website says you can't re-take courses. So, that seems to knock me out of the running for the sponsorship option.

Nope. Unless they changed some policies in the last year or two, that's wrong. You can't get a "premed studies diploma" if you already took physics, but you can still retake classes and be HCP sponsored. Sponsorship gets you the composite letter of recommendation. The diploma program gets you a Harvard student ID which allows extra library access and the opportunity to apply for financial aid (I think), but it definitely isn't required for HCP sponsorship.

http://www.extension.harvard.edu/2007-08/programs/hcp/sponsor/
http://www.extension.harvard.edu/2007-08/programs/hcp/diploma/

You don't say whether you'd like to take Physics again, but for sponsorship you can go either way - retake it if you want, skip it if you think you remember enough to do well on the MCAT. The HCP doesn't care. For what it's worth, I had Physics as an undergrad (12 years ago), retook it through the Extension School, and was sponsored by the HCP.

Here's the deal. I have an interview scheduled at Bryn Mawr in January. I'm also applying a few other programs too....Would the HES program seem like a good fit for a person in my position?

Interesting geographical distribution. As a postbac, I'd suggest that you take classes locally if you're established (job, friends, whatever) someplace where you like living and there's a program nearby. That said, if you're going to be in the Boston area I'd definitely give HES/HCP a big thumbs-up. From what you say about yourself, it sounds like it could be a very good fit for you.
 
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Yep, you are right Hangin. I hadn't read the website carefully (obviously)!

Thanks for the nice responses. I appreciate your time and advice!

P.S. Much respect for math PhDs.

Thanks but its really not a big deal. Hey, what's the difference in a guy with a Ph.D. in Math and a large pizza?....The pizza can actually feed a family!

Thanks again!
Gator
 
One more question. How quickly will Harvard fill up for the Summer 2008 program....Or do they not "fill up" since it's open admission? Let me rephrase: Should I apply now, or wait until the end of February when I hear back from Bryn Mawr?

Thanks!! :thumbup:
 
I was able to get into classes no problem a week before they started last summer....you shouldn't have any problem.
 
One more question. How quickly will Harvard fill up for the Summer 2008 program....Or do they not "fill up" since it's open admission? Let me rephrase: Should I apply now, or wait until the end of February when I hear back from Bryn Mawr?

Thanks!! :thumbup:

Doesn't really hurt much to apply now because they don't require recommendations and things like that so it should be easy. But waiting won't really hurt your chances either.
 
Right, thanks for the reply. I was just thinking that I might hold off on the $100 bucks until I hear from BM.

Thanks again!
 
Hey ya'll!

So I received a letter stating that due to my poor (2.5<x<2.8) GPA, I am denied admittance. Attached to the letter was my $100 check. I would still like to get the sponsorship letter...

From what I've gathered in this thread, my course of action at this point is as follows:
1. Re-take my pre-med classes at HES. (1st semester = Phys 1, Chem 1)
2. Get A's in both of these courses.
3. At the beginning of the 2nd semester, apply for sponsorship.

To clarify, I am not seeking the pre-med studies diploma. Instead, I am only interested in the sponsorship letter.

I just want to confirm this before I register for classes...

*Do I simply need to exhibit the capacity to do well (meet sponsorship qualifications by getting 2 A's the first semester) OR do I need to continue to take classes at HES in order to boost my GPA to a certain point (x>3.0)?


Due to extenuating circumstances during my undergrad years, I was unable to commit 100% to my studies. I know HES will be a challenge, but I am ready for it!


thanks for the clarification!
 
Hey ya'll!

So I received a letter stating that due to my poor (2.5<x<2.8) GPA, I am denied admittance. Attached to the letter was my $100 check. I would still like to get the sponsorship letter...

From what I've gathered in this thread, my course of action at this point is as follows:
1. Re-take my pre-med classes at HES. (1st semester = Phys 1, Chem 1)
2. Get A's in both of these courses.
3. At the beginning of the 2nd semester, apply for sponsorship.

To clarify, I am not seeking the pre-med studies diploma. Instead, I am only interested in the sponsorship letter.

I just want to confirm this before I register for classes...

*Do I simply need to exhibit the capacity to do well (meet sponsorship qualifications by getting 2 A's the first semester) OR do I need to continue to take classes at HES in order to boost my GPA to a certain point (x>3.0)?


Due to extenuating circumstances during my undergrad years, I was unable to commit 100% to my studies. I know HES will be a challenge, but I am ready for it!


thanks for the clarification!

Yes, you can try that. It may work, but I am not sure that it is guaranteed.
 
Can anyone who was in my situation report on their experience??

Were you able to receive sponsorship despite having been declined admission the first time? Specifically, did you get the sponsorship because you got 2 As your first semester, or because you kept getting As in order to bring your GPA up to a certain average?


Thanks!
 
Can anyone who was in my situation report on their experience??

Were you able to receive sponsorship despite having been declined admission the first time? Specifically, did you get the sponsorship because you got 2 As your first semester, or because you kept getting As in order to bring your GPA up to a certain average?


Thanks!

Get a 4.0 your first semester and you have a great chance of getting sponsored. From what I've been told, it's just short of a guarantee.
 
Hi guys,

I have two questions:
1) How big is the Health Careers Program?

2) How structured is the program?
 
Hi guys,

I have two questions:
1) How big is the Health Careers Program?

2) How structured is the program?

1) I am not sure how many are enrolled, but the lecture halls will be huge. Not all will be in the program though.

2) I can't speak to that.
 
Hi guys,

I have two questions:
1) How big is the Health Careers Program?

2) How structured is the program?

1. Roughly 500 students start the program, perhaps 200/lecture hall.

2. Define structure.
 
I am thinking of taking either Human Functional and Evolutionary Anatomy or Principals and Techniques of Molecular Biology this spring -- has anyone taken either of these courses or have an opinion about which would be more helpful for medical school?

Thanks.
 
OK, time for us to pass on our wisdom to the next generation. Here is my shot at a FAQ.

Harvard Health Careers Program official website: http://www.extension.harvard.edu/hcp/

What pre-health programs does Harvard Extension School (HES) offer?

There are essentially three levels of involvement for post-bacc students:
  1. HES do-it-yourself. The courses you will take at HES generally are open enrollment. No need to apply, just register, pay, and show up. Go ahead and take whatever courses you lack. If you are handling the med school admissions process yourself or through your undergrad school, this makes the most sense, and this is what most people do.
  2. Health Careers Program (HCP). You have to apply for acceptance, but getting in is straightforward and easy if your academic record is good, and still possible even if it is not. You pay a fee, and upon your fulfilling the requirements, the program officially sponsors you, which primarily includes writing a composite letter of recommendation. HCP students are otherwise no different from other HES students.
  3. Diploma. HCP students who have never taken any of the four core sciences (biology, physics, general chemistry, organic chemistry) can additionally enroll in the diploma program, which grants a diploma upon completion. The principal purpose of this is as a loophole to allow some students to have the official status of “in a degree or certificate program,” which scores you a Harvard ID, various university privileges, possibly certain tax advantages, etc.
What does it cost?

Not much. Currently a 4-credit single-semester course costs $900 for core sciences with labs or $700 for advanced courses. Summer courses are much more.

What courses will I take?

Whatever you need. Unless you have already taken them, you will need, before applying to medical school, at least the four core science courses:
  • Physics
  • General Chemistry
  • Organic Chemistry
  • Biology
Each of these is two semesters long and has a lab included within the course.

Those applying to, say, nursing school, may need less. Those with poor academic records seeking a higher GPA may choose to retake any of these, or to take advanced courses. Biochemistry is a common choice for the glide year before med school, and there are several advanced biology courses to choose from, such as genetics, neurobiology, and immunology.

What are the prerequisites?

Check the course description and syllabus for the official word. Generally HES will do nothing to prevent you from enrolling in a course, and it is up to you to decide whether you are truly prepared. Here are some guidelines for core sciences:
  • Gen Chem — Just algebra.
  • Physics — Your algebra and trig should be strong. Calculus is NOT necessary.
  • Orgo — Gen Chem minus the math.
  • Biology — First semester is chemistry-intensive, so Gen Chem is a huge help. Second semester, not so much, and is relatively independent.
What about summer school?

http://www.summer.harvard.edu/

Each of the core science courses is offered as an intensive summer course through Harvard Summer School (not HES). For example, chem-s1 is a single eight-week course equivalent to two semesters of general chemistry; it is offered in the daytime, and is taken by roughly equal portions of high school students, undergrads, and post-baccs. You pay quite a bit more (currently $4550, versus $1800 for two semesters at HES). You also get a Harvard ID and may be eligible for on-campus summer housing. Biochemistry and a few other single-semester advanced biology courses are offered at night over the same period (currently $2275 each). Summer courses are equivalent to HES courses for purposes of the HCP and the diploma program.

What order should I take my courses?

As for the core sciences, it is strongly recommended that general chemistry precede organic chemistry and biology. Therefore, most career-changing pre-meds follow a two-year plan:
  1. Physics, Gen Chem
  2. Biology, Orgo
That much is sufficient to take the MCAT and begin applying to med school. Those needing, say, Calculus or English, should be able to take them during the glide year.

If you’re a real gunner with no need for employment, or if you’ve already taken any of the core sciences, you may also consider a one-year plan, such as either of these:
  • summer Gen Chem; then Physics, Bio, & Orgo
  • Gen Chem, Physics, & Bio; then summer Orgo and a late MCAT
Core sciences are generally scheduled to allow this. The one thing you can’t do is take general and organic chemistry at the same time.

On the other hand, many students work full-time and take just one course at a time over a period of several years.

A good rule of thumb is that each core science (with lab) will demand about 15-20 hrs/wk for a strong student, so it would be dangerous to attempt more than three at once, or two with a part-time job, or one with a full-time job. Many full-time students have their hands full with just two core sciences.

When are classes?

Check the online catalog. Not counting summer courses, core sciences are all at night, with lectures currently 6-9 or 7:35-9:35. Besides exams, only labs are mandatory attendance, with times around 7:30 available. Labs, discussion sections, and reviews offer multiple options in most of these classes, often including night, afternoon, and weekend offerings.

Who will my classmates be?

Aside from summer courses, HES pre-med classes are mostly taken by post-bacc students. Class sizes for core sciences are typically over two hundred, though advanced courses are much smaller. A majority of the students are in their mid 20’s and are working, but there is plenty of diversity.

What is the attrition rate?

Easy come, easy go. Open enrollment welcomes many who just want to take the first steps toward medicine without committing to a formal post-bacc program, and many soon decide that it is not for them. Many are also surprised by the difficulty and intensity of courses (it is Harvard, after all). Within the HCP, though, attrition is considerably lower.

Are there linkages to medical schools?

No.

What access do students have to facilities?

Generally, HES students can go wherever the tourists can go, plus certain libraries. To enter Cabot library in the science center you must present your HES registration form. You can also request access to the reading room (but not the stacks) at Widener, and can enter some libraries (e.g. Lamont) as a guest of someone else with a Harvard ID.

Those with a Harvard ID, including diploma candidates, summer students, and Harvard-affiliated employees, can not only enter all the libraries, but check out books too, and can even use the gyms.

All registered students can get a computer network logon and an email account (so you can join the Harvard network on Facebook!).

Pre-meds tend to congregate in Cabot library, or generally anywhere in the science center, which is open all hours.

If I move there, where should I live?

You will have to find a place yourself, so start checking craigslist and studentdoctor.net or find a good realtor. Expect urban prices. Most people recommend leaving your car behind and relying on public transportation, i.e., “the T” or MBTA, so a good choice, besides the vicinity of Harvard’s main campus, would be anywhere convenient to the red line (which would not include Brookline or Harvard Medical School).
 
If you don't work at all, but do some volunteering (say, one day a week) is it realistic for someone to do well in three courses at once? Assuming you're an above average but not exceptional student?
 
If you don't work at all, but do some volunteering (say, one day a week) is it realistic for someone to do well in three courses at once? Assuming you're an above average but not exceptional student?

Search in this thread for prior posts by me, I've talked about taking three classes a good bit. The short story is that it's very difficult, and you definitely want to keep EC's to a minimum. It also depends a lot on your background - if you were a bio major then intro bio will be a joke and taking that with gen chem & physics won't be nearly as bad.
 
Good luck over the next couple of weeks, everyone. We're all one more semester closer to our goal. :D
 
What five are you contemplating?
 
Hi, there.

Personally, I have not taken any of the classes that you listed. I know two people who have taken a few of them, though. I have heard that Immunology is time consuming and considered a challenging course. Hopefully, another HES student who has more experience with them will put in their two cents.

The precaution regarding taking too many classes is generally geared toward the traditional four pre-requisites (Chem, O-Chem, Physics, and Bio). They require a tremendous amount of physical time in class, section, review, and lab as well as mental time dedicated to studying. The homework assignments and tests, particularly the finals, are intense. From my understanding, none of the courses that you've listed have a lab component, which frees up a lot of time. If you are a good student and are motivated, I think you may be able to get away with those five. I'm sure others will offer their opinion. Good luck in your decision.
 
Usethe4ce, that was incredibly informative. Thank you so much for writing that up.

Question, though. I'm current a senior at an Ivy, majoring in econ and I haven't taken any of the core pre-med requirements. I think I'm applying for the HCP program, but I'm worried because the site says that I have to have an accredited Bachelor's, but I'm not getting my Bachelor's until May. If I get into that, would that be when I try to get into the Diploma program, or is that a separate process?

Thanks for any help.
 
is it possible for someone to begin the Official 2008 version of this thread? I'd love to get to know other newbies and old skoolers at HES whom I'm probably sitting next to in class:)
 
Hello,

This question is for those who have already attended the program. If you DID NOT work full time (and don't have piles of money sitting in the bank) did you end up having to take out private loans to cover cost of living (food, rent, etc..). I've heard people say that working full time is not a good idea, to others saying its hard but doable, I would like to be able to focus on class as much as possible AND not go into debt. I tried to find some answers to this on the previous years posts but couldn't find it...I looked for a long time though so I might have glazed over it.
Thanks!


and yes I did post this on multiple forums just so I could get a max # of views, sorry if its annyoing
 
Hi. Please come share your experiences and wisdom in the Official Harvard 2010 thread. Thanks!
 
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