Obamacare is a Complete Failure

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1. This whole discussion is about the ACA. It affects everyone. What, as soon as I become a medical student or physician it will magically make sense that we are the world's richest county and we can't provide basic health care to our poorest citizens?

I am simply arguing a perfictly valid point. A point that the rest of the earth's 6.8 billion inhabitants seem to agree with since some form of single payer is in every country.

2. What nonsense? I have a different viewpoint that's shared by a lot of people. It just seems to be the minority on sdn.

3. Tricare is pretty much the largest jumble of nonsense that exists, so I can't argue there.

This is why people are accusing you of being clueless. You are straight delusional if you think this sentence has merit. The majority of this planet dies of diseases that are not even an issue for our country. Malnutrition, vitamin deficiencies, malaria, MEASLES, etc. Anyone in the US can use the resources provided to never have to deal with these things (for the most part, there are exceptions). Do they die of cancer, CAD, DM, COPD, and HTN? Yeah, those diseases are harder to treat. They require more money in general and better compliance. The poor in the US may not get quite as good healthcare as the more well off (the margin is smaller than you make it seem), but they are much better off than hundreds of millions of people outside the "world's richest country."

And the concept of what is and isn't basic healthcare is already an arbitrary line.

Edited for typo.

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I'm still waiting for my list of accolades and qualifications from @ScrubsMD of why he's so much more clued in than his future colleagues.
 
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Another issue of single payer system (aka the government) that seems to be getting ignored is the time it takes for patients to be seen for major procedures. Single payer systems cause an increase in number of procedures, many of which are not completely necessary. Which will in turn increase wait times to receive those procedures. I don't know about everyone else here, but I'd prefer my patients not have to wait 9 months for something like a spinal surgery. And for those who want to say the longer wait time thing isn't true, here ya go:

http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/wait-times-for-medical-treatment-getting-longer-report-1.1516817

http://waittimes.cihi.ca/

Notice for that second link, benchmarks aren't even established for a lot of major procedures. Which is why most Canadians that can afford it come to the U.S. for medical treatment.
 
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I am not so sure why the debate seems to be between the current system and single payer. Single payer in the US is a very far fetched idea. The US healthcare system is a multi trillion dollar industry that pays private business (both from tax dollars and personal dollars) somewhere around 19% of the US GDP. We cannot just transfer an enormous junk of that money away from private business without huge economic consequences. The next changes in healthcare (whether they are more towards free market based solutions or government centralization) are neither going to illuminate private sector healthcare nor government involvement in healthcare. We can all talk about our ideal system (and quite possibly either ideal might be better than what we have now) but such a discussion is nothing more than pandering to fantasy. I am not saying the discussion is not worthwhile, but people should be aware that neither side ever gets close to what they want.
 
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The US is already majority (65%) single payer. No, it is not a farfetched idea to annex the remaining 35%.
 
Two tiered system

NPs for most
MD/DOs for those who are willing to pay for it. Charge a premium guys, you have debt to pay off and med school is a grind.

Because equivalence is equivalence, no more worries about the poor.
 
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.

You want single payer? Go practice in Canada. Don't further pollute our healthcare system with government nonsense.

You do know that most Canadian doctors make more money, work less hours and have to deal with less paperwork than their American counterparts?
 
Only most developed countries have single payer. This leaves the vast majority of the world population actually not living in a society that supports your point.. Here is a map of countries with single-payer systems:
mf%20healthcaremap%20p-thumb-615x314-91612.jpg

So it clearly isn't the only way to do things, nor is it definitely the best way (for patients or physicians).

so basically every country that's not a ****hole has single payer. not sure what you're point is. I don't see too many countries clamoring to emulate Rhodesia.
 
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Americans fund much of the world's pharmaceutical research. You realize that the countries with single payer have highly regulated pharmaceutical prices and prescription practices, which on a surface sound good for the consumer, but really are bad for funding research and for providing aggressive treatment?

eh, that's a line pharma companies love to put out, but in reality, pharma research is a global industry. It's easier to get approved overseas, which is why most treatments start in Europe and migrate over here. Secondly, most pharma "innovations" are marginal improvements at best. Drugs from the '40s and '50s still work nearly as well for the vast majority of patients as the latest and greatest.

Finally, the biggest driver of pharma research is the US government, which funds research through the university systems, which pharma companies contract with.
 
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eh, that's a line pharma companies love to put out, but in reality, pharma research is a global industry. It's easier to get approved overseas, which is why most treatments start in Europe and migrate over here. Secondly, most pharma "innovations" are marginal improvements at best. Drugs from the '40s and '50s still work nearly as well for the vast majority of patients as the latest and greatest.

Finally, the biggest driver of pharma research is the US government, which funds research through the university systems, which pharma companies contract with.

The government only pays for 1/3 of the research, foundations and private investors comprise less than 10%, the remaining 58% of pharmaceutical research is funded by the companies themselves.

1/3 is not "the biggest driver"

http://pharma.about.com/od/Research-and-Development/a/Who-Funds-Biomedical-Research.htm
 
You do know that most Canadian doctors make more money, work less hours and have to deal with less paperwork than their American counterparts?

Most Canadian primary care doctors make a little more than American primary care doctors, but considering that 70% of American doctors are specialists, American doctors make about 42% more than Canadian and 70% more than other industrialized nations.
 
You do know that most Canadian doctors make more money, work less hours and have to deal with less paperwork than their American counterparts?
Just another reason left-leaning physicians should be tripping over each other to go practice in Canada, yet for some reason you don't see that happening
 
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Do you read the news? Nearly every VA scandal has been deemed to be caused by administrators and not providers.

Senior administrators influencing scheduling so that veterans can't be seen and then lying about wait times. That is not a provider issue. The only systemic provider issue that I could find is basically a lack thereof.
And one whistleblower was a female physician who was demoted after bringing up this problem. But the problem is with providers. lol.
 
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Obamacare a failure?? Is the sky blue? LOL. I am still getting collection calls from a visit I had last year for a sprained ankle, my insurance didn't cover everything. When the other guy was running the show my doctor took the insurance company's partial payment as "full payment" now he is acting like a mafia loan shark. Some hope and change!!!

I am getting so fed up with things that I am thinking of going back to my grandparents home in Osaka after residency. Given how things work in Japan, I will probably have start medical school all over again.
 
Americans fund much of the world's pharmaceutical research. You realize that the countries with single payer have highly regulated pharmaceutical prices and prescription practices, which on a surface sound good for the consumer, but really are bad for funding research and for providing aggressive treatment?

That's why a ton of pharmaceutical companies in America aren't really based in America.

You start getting Uncle Sam involved in creating a single-payer system, prices may go down, but at what cost?
I dont think he is even calculating the lost opportunities either. You cant force people to discover a new drug, you cant force people to do what u want them to do without incentives. Its all about incentives or people take their ball and go home.
 
Obamacare a failure?? Is the sky blue? LOL. I am still getting collection calls from a visit I had last year for a sprained ankle, my insurance didn't cover everything. When the other guy was running the show my doctor took the insurance company's partial payment as "full payment" now he is acting like a mafia loan shark. Some hope and change!!!

I am getting so fed up with things that I am thinking of going back to my grandparents home in Osaka after residency. Given how things work in Japan, I will probably have start medical school all over again.

Your doctor jerking you around with your medical bill isn't the fault of Obamacare in spite of its many faults. It just means your doctor might be a douche if he initially wrote off the rest of the amount and is now coming after you for it.

Depending on your priorities, Japan may not be better. Reimbursement rates in Japan suck (government sets the rates, remember?), so combine that with the higher cost of living, and you may not be living as comfortably as you like. Depending on how much money you want to make, you may find yourself just working like a dog and "moving the meat" unless you become a surgeon.

OTOH, I guess you could sustain yourself with having less onerous paperwork/EMR implementation, not having to fight a dozen different insurance companies for everything, and generally being more respected than you are here. But if you can't, then I don't think you thought your cunning plan all the way through.
 
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Your doctor jerking you around with your medical bill isn't the fault of Obamacare in spite of its many faults. It just means your doctor might be a douche if he initially wrote off the rest of the amount and is now coming after you for it.

Depending on your priorities, Japan may not be better. Reimbursement rates in Japan suck (government sets the rates, remember?), so combine that with the higher cost of living, and you may not be living as comfortably as you like. Depending on how much money you want to make, you may find yourself just working like a dog and "moving the meat" unless you become a surgeon.

OTOH, I guess you could sustain yourself with having less onerous paperwork/EMR implementation, not having to fight a dozen different insurance companies for everything, and generally being more respected than you are here. But if you can't, then I don't think you thought your cunning plan all the way through.

Medical school in Japan is FREE!!!! You do not pay 1 cent!!! Japanese doctors make a decent living and considering the fact that they are not burdened with high interest loans, and live in a hyper violent police state, I like the idea, my parents are Japanese, and I can easily fit in over there.
 
Medical school in Japan is FREE!!!! You do not pay 1 cent!!! Japanese doctors make a decent living and considering the fact that they are not burdened with high interest loans, and live in a hyper violent police state, I like the idea, my parents are Japanese, and I can easily fit in over there.
you have assburgers. we don't care about japan.

also, japanese physician salaries are very low (less than half on average) versus their US counterpart. and you'd have to deal with living in a horrible country like japan. Tsunamis and nuclear meltdowns? No thank you.
 
Medical school in Japan is FREE!!!! You do not pay 1 cent!!! Japanese doctors make a decent living and considering the fact that they are not burdened with high interest loans, and live in a hyper violent police state, I like the idea, my parents are Japanese, and I can easily fit in over there.
What is the catch? There is always a catch. Is your specialty chosen for u? Do they have a match?
 
you have assburgers. we don't care about japan.

also, japanese physician salaries are very low (less than half on average) versus their US counterpart. and you'd have to deal with living in a horrible country like japan. Tsunamis and nuclear meltdowns? No thank you.

You are bipolar also an ignorant fool. Physician salaries in the US are stagnant and Obamacare is going to ruin things for specialists. Also consider that the costs of education keep going up.

People in Western Europe, Japan, Canada, Australia, etc spend far less on education.
 
Medical school in Japan is FREE!!!! You do not pay 1 cent!!! Japanese doctors make a decent living and considering the fact that they are not burdened with high interest loans, and live in a hyper violent police state, I like the idea, my parents are Japanese, and I can easily fit in over there.

Not every school is free, but it is a lot cheaper than it is here. The tuition will also vary depending on whether or not you hold Japanese citizenship. Schools that have the most financial aid tend to be the top schools (the seven original imperial universities and the big name private schools like Keio). There is no national public financial assistance program for university like we have here.

http://www.juntendo.ac.jp/med/exam/gakuhi.html
http://web.sapmed.ac.jp/jp/public/student/03bqho00001wv86t.html

Also, scholarships offered by schools in Japan tend to work differently, and they are often just interest-free loans rather than grants of money. Considering how difficult it is to get into those top schools, your best bet is to look into financing through JASSO, or if you're young enough, then try swinging a true scholarship through MEXT. I hope you have cash saved up.

W/R/T fitting in, bear in mind that if you grew up here and have lived here for most of your life, you won't be viewed as Japanese. They'll see you as a foreigner, which compounds the difficulty of pretty much anything you do there.
 
You are bipolar also an ignorant fool. Physician salaries in the US are stagnant and Obamacare is going to ruin things for specialists. Also consider that the costs of education keep going up.
lol go make 80k as a jp physician. enjoy the radiation! Gomenasai^^;;~~~
 
Not every school is free, but it is a lot cheaper than it is here. The tuition will also vary depending on whether or not you hold Japanese citizenship. Schools that have the most financial aid tend to be the top schools (the seven original imperial universities and the big name private schools like Keio). There is no national public financial assistance program for university like we have here.

http://www.juntendo.ac.jp/med/exam/gakuhi.html
http://web.sapmed.ac.jp/jp/public/student/03bqho00001wv86t.html

Also, scholarships offered by schools in Japan tend to work differently, and they are often just interest-free loans rather than grants of money. Considering how difficult it is to get into those top schools, your best bet is to look into financing through JASSO, or if you're young enough, then try swinging a true scholarship through MEXT. I hope you have cash saved up.

W/R/T fitting in, bear in mind that if you grew up here and have lived here for most of your life, you won't be viewed as Japanese. They'll see you as a foreigner, which compounds the difficulty of pretty much anything you do there.

I visit there a lot, and racially I appear Japanese, also I am over 6 feet tall, so I am kind of a novelty and a huge chick magnet.
 
I visit there a lot, and racially I appear Japanese, also I am over 6 feet tall, so I am kind of a novelty and a huge chick magnet.

do you masturbate to your own image in the mirror too?
 
Jlaw-okay.gif





Why Japan? I used to live there and looked into going into medicine there vs here.

Or why am I feed a potential troll?

I recently inherited a huge amount of assets that I prefer to keep there. And my family is from there. Duh. And given the current direction of America, why not. Things ain't looking good here.

I love how all the Leftists were painting Bush like the son of Satan, blaming him for all the ills of the world, but Obama is in his 7th year in office but how much the world has changed, its the same old business as usual and in many ways America has gotten worse.

By the way do not interpret that as me defending Bush because I am not. I remember when people were cheering seven years ago when Obama became President only to wake up to a dystopia.
 
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I recently inherited a huge amount of assets that I prefer to keep there . And my family is from there. Duh. And given the current direction of America, why not. Things ain't looking good here.
chick magnet AND rich?

You should go into investment banking. I Hear that make good money. there is no future in medicine anyway. i bet you could be the head of the japanese goldmens sack division in 3 years.
 
I recently inherited a huge amount of assets that I prefer to keep there. And my family is from there. Duh. And given the current direction of America, why not. Things ain't looking good here.

I love how all the Leftists were painting Bush like the son of Satan, blaming him for all the ills of the world, but Obama is in his 7th year in office but how much the world has changed, its the same old business as usual and in many ways America has gotten worse.

By the way do not interpret that as me defending Bush because I am not. I remember when people were cheering seven years ago when Obama became President only to wake up to a dystopia.

You hate the ACA because it's destroying medicine here, but want to jump ship to a country that actually has single-payer and many of the issues that come with it, which is the fear of many of us with the implementation of the ACA. You are a master of logic.
 
You hate the ACA because it's destroying medicine here, but want to jump ship to a country that actually has single-payer and many of the issues that come with it, which is the fear of many of us with the implementation of the ACA. You are a master of logic.

Did you forget to read the part where I just inherited a lot of money???? I have nothing against single payer insurance.

We also need to reform the education system and how its financed. Most countries that have universal health care also have free or low cost higher education. Left wing utopias like France and Germany, medical school is free or low cost, student usually do not graduate with debt.

I do have something against the higher education system in this country that extract thousands of dollars from students and relegates students to life of indentured servitude and debt.

I would bet serious a money a liberal white dude like you would walk the other way if you saw a minority crossing the street in your direction.
 
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Did you forget to read the part where I just inherited a lot of money???? I have nothing against single payer insurance.

We also need to reform the education system and how its financed. Most countries that have universal health care also have free or low cost higher education. Left wing utopias like France and Germany, medical school is free or low cost, student usually do not graduate with debt.

I do have something against the higher education system in this country that extract thousands of dollars from students and relegates students to life of indentured servitude and debt.

I would bet serious a money a liberal white dude like you would walk the other way if you saw a minority crossing the street in your direction.

No, I read it, but it seems irrelevant to how you feel about single payer.

Also, you would lose that bet. I'm not sure I would describe myself as liberal in the sense that you're thinking of. My views tend to align mostly with @thedrjojo, so if you consider him liberal, then yeah, I'm a total bleeding heart.
 
You do know that most Canadian doctors make more money, work less hours and have to deal with less paperwork than their American counterparts?
Then go there?

The real issue is that if you don't want to practice primary care, the Canadian system is very competitive. The have a lockdown on how many people can become specialists, essentially limiting your options substantially. If you want to be a PCP or internist, the Canadian system is great though.
 
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I was having trouble understanding what was going on, then I realized that there was a pile of ignored content in the thread :laugh:

For the record, the biggest problem with being a new doctor in Japan is their GME system. It isn't as structured as the US, and you can essentially be strung along as the equivalent of a resident forever. Basically, it's competency based, and the factor that determines your competency is your attendings' opinion of you. If they don't like you, well, get ready to be a resident until you die. We had an anesthesia resident that got tired of waiting for her training to be over (5 years) and just came to the US because she got the feeling she would be dragged along for another 5 if she stayed.
 
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Just another reason left-leaning physicians should be tripping over each other to go practice in Canada, yet for some reason you don't see that happening

^ This. If Canada is so amazing and they get paid so much more then why isn't there an influx and my physician I shadowed way back when from Canada said that about half of his class left for the states upon graduation.
 
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You hate the ACA because it's destroying medicine here, but want to jump ship to a country that actually has single-payer and many of the issues that come with it, which is the fear of many of us with the implementation of the ACA. You are a master of logic.

The ACA is not bringing European style single payer healthcare to America please stop smoking whatever you are smoking, its a watered down Republican version of single payer healthcare.
 
Then go there?

The real issue is that if you don't want to practice primary care, the Canadian system is very competitive. The have a lockdown on how many people can become specialists, essentially limiting your options substantially. If you want to be a PCP or internist, the Canadian system is great though.

Yup my family in Canada have talked about this a million times when they talk to me about going to medical school.
 
I was having trouble understanding what was going on, then I realized that there was a pile of ignored content in the thread :laugh:

For the record, the biggest problem with being a new doctor in Japan is their GME system. It isn't as structured as the US, and you can essentially be strung along as the equivalent of a resident forever. Basically, it's competency based, and the factor that determines your competency is your attendings' opinion of you. If they don't like you, well, get ready to be a resident until you die. We had an anesthesia resident that got tired of waiting for her training to be over (5 years) and just came to the US because she got the feeling she would be dragged along for another 5 if she stayed.

That's intense.
 
The ACA is not bringing European style single payer healthcare to America please stop smoking whatever you are smoking, its a watered down Republican version of single payer healthcare.

Cool story bro. I wasn't talking about Europe.
 
Cool story bro. I wasn't talking about Europe.

You made a kneejerk ******ed response in thinking I was some kind of Tea Party Wingnut. I like the idea of affordable single payer healthcare but I also like the idea of affordable higher education as well. Doctors need to eat and have a roof over their head, would you agree?

The current system is turning young people into indentured servants, if you think that is okay, you are out of your mind.

What I do not like about Obamacare is that its really watered down, its a Republican plan that basically forces people to buy health insurance, its not the kind of health care system that Europeans enjoy which is much better than the US.

European healthcare is universal healthcare, I sprained an ankle in France during a trip in college, had no travel insurance, paid the equivalent of 40 US dollars for full treatment, a Frenchman who would be in an American ER would be in huge financial trouble in the same situation. Even with Obamacare, healthcare is still pricey for people without insurance and the new plan just forces those without insurance to buy it.

Republicans and Democrats = Same Old ****.
 
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You made a kneejerk ******ed response in thinking I was some kind of Tea Party Wingnut. I like the idea of affordable single payer healthcare but I also like the idea of affordable higher education as well. Doctors need to eat and have a roof over their head, would you agree?

The current system is turning young people into indentured servants, if you think that is okay, you are out of your mind.

What I do not like about Obamacare is that its really watered down, its a Republican plan that basically forces people to buy health insurance, its not the kind of health care system that Europeans enjoy which is much better than the US.

I like Europe a lot, they are a lot less judgmental and uptight than most of us in America, although with the Muslim influx they are changing too. It was the most liberating feeling in the world to run around in the nude in a park in the middle of a large city and not get arrested, get dirty looks, or get assaulted.

Republicans and Democrats = Same Old ****.

I don't think single payer is a solution nor going in the opposite spectrum but I think the way things are going by having nurse prac. and PA's doing more basic doctor functions is probably the way to get it down.

Or else...

lb0814cd20130813122211.jpg
 
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I don't think single payer is a solution nor going in the opposite spectrum but I think the way things are going by having nurse prac. and PA's doing more basic doctor functions is probably the way to get it down.

Or else...

View attachment 189316

Single payer is good for people who have no income, or people with unstable sources of income or those who cannot get insurance. Even those with insurance get shafted. I have insurance, I had an injury a while back but my insurance did not fully pay my doctor, but my doctor is now getting a collection agency after me which I think is ridiculous in the past he took the partial payment as "full payment".
 
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You made a kneejerk ******ed response in thinking I was some kind of Tea Party Wingnut. I like the idea of affordable single payer healthcare but I also like the idea of affordable higher education as well. Doctors need to eat and have a roof over their head, would you agree?

The current system is turning young people into indentured servants, if you think that is okay, you are out of your mind.

What I do not like about Obamacare is that its really watered down, its a Republican plan that basically forces people to buy health insurance, its not the kind of health care system that Europeans enjoy which is much better than the US.

I like Europe a lot, they are a lot less judgmental and uptight than most of us in America, although with the Muslim influx they are changing too. It was the most liberating feeling in the world to run around in the nude in a park in the middle of a large city and not get arrested, get dirty looks, or get assaulted.

Republicans and Democrats = Same Old ****.

No, I was pointing out that the grass isn't greener in Japan and that things aren't as simple as you think they are before you went all whargarble. I never said I supported the ACA, so I don't know why you pinned it on me. I don't enjoy the prospect of declining reimbursements, or of the prospect of greater government control of healthcare as things stand right now, so I don't understand the line of logic in your responses.

You had an odd, racist reaction when I mentioned that I had lived in Japan, as if I couldn't possibly know what I was talking about by virtue of being a vanilla face. You are surprisingly similar to a weeaboo in your idealized, infantile view of how things actually are in Japan, which tells me your experience of actually living there as an adult is relatively limited. And then there's the constant non-sequiturs which you are notorious for and is the reason why a bunch of people have you on ignore. I can't tell if your schtick is some sort of Andy Kaufman-esque trolling attempt, or if you just don't realize how odd and non-sensical some of your posts are.
 
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Maybe I can just go back to Japan after I am done with school and live off my family inheritance and play PS4 all day long rather than toil long hours. Its becoming rather tempting than deal with all this bull****.

I call bull. If you're so concerned with toiling long hours, why not just liquidate and convert to USD? Why not just move now?

This is probably a pathetic attempt to seem more valuable on SDN than you are in real life. And if you do indeed have a large inheritance, it's still pathetic in that you classlessly throw around family funds like we should give a crap while derailing this thread.
 
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No, I was pointing out that the grass isn't greener in Japan and that things aren't as simple as you think they are before you went all whargarble. I never said I supported the ACA, so I don't know why you pinned it on me. I don't enjoy the prospect of declining reimbursements, or of the prospect of greater government control of healthcare as things stand right now, so I don't understand the line of logic in your responses.

You had an odd, racist reaction when I mentioned that I had lived in Japan, as if I couldn't possibly know what I was talking about by virtue of being a vanilla face. You are surprisingly similar to a weeaboo in your idealized, infantile view of how things actually are in Japan, which tells me your experience of actually living there as an adult is relatively limited. And then there's the constant non-sequiturs which you are notorious for and is the reason why a bunch of people have you on ignore. I can't tell if your schtick is some sort of Andy Kaufman-esque trolling attempt, or if you just don't realize how odd and non-sensical some of your posts are.

Ever heard of Julian? LOL. Apparently he got banned from entering the UK for telling the truth about what its like for being a white guy in Japan. I am Japanese by my parents, I spent all of my life in the USA, but visited every now and then, and yes I finally got some yen, a lot in some legal settlement divided among my relatives, but its a fair sum, enough to live nicely for a while, but its nice to have a nest egg.

I spent a good number of years of my life living sleeping with a New Yorker, so hence my sarcasm and strange comments. LOL.

My experience of living in Japan are summer trips to visit grandparents and distant cousins, otherwise I am Merican. Many people think I am part Caucasian because of my height and appearance but no both parents are Japanese.

I never said the grass was greener there, I just said I fell into some cash over there and some property, so I got a place to live and money if things do not work out here. A plan B.
 
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I call bull. If you're so concerned with toiling long hours, why not just liquidate and convert to USD? Why not just move now?

This is probably a pathetic attempt to seem more valuable on SDN than you are in real life. And if you do indeed have a large inheritance, it's still pathetic in that you classlessly throw around family funds like we should give a crap while derailing this thread.

You're right. This guy talking about his inheritance over and over is getting pretty weird.
 
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You're right. This guy talking about his inheritance over and over is getting pretty weird.

I just found out about it a couple of weeks ago, there was some legal rambling going on for a couple of years among my family back home, but when I found out how much I got, it was very nice surprise, like I suddenly won the lottery.

If what his face like Japanese girls, good for him. I had a Korean American wife. Growing up in America, Asian women are a bit too servile.

Whenever I make a trip to Eastern Europe, its like heaven. Now that I got some dosh, I am going to meet Roosh.
 
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