Nurses at it again...

[IsleyOfTheNorth]

Yes. And the point is that nurses are doing much more direct patient care with COVID patients than the vast majority of physicians,

True, but that's why they're not including the vast majority of physicians.

Additionally, this country has a huge trust issue with scientists and physicians, but they are obsessed with nurses.

That's the best argument for including nurses, but it's also reinforcing the idea that nurses are the mouthpiece that people should be listening to. That's a problem because they are more likely to lead people astray than a physician; i.e. vaccines are bad.

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[DrNotaDr]

The point is, EVERYONE has SOMETHING to add, so "something to add" is not a worthwhile criteria. There has to be a balance between packing as much expertise into the group as possible without making the group too large to work efficiently.

Are any of the professions the most trust profession in America for the last 18 years in a row?

 

[DrNotaDr]

True, but that's why they're not including the vast majority of physicians.



That's the best argument for including nurses, but it's also reinforcing the idea that nurses are the mouthpiece that people should be listening to. That's a problem because they are more likely to lead people astray than a physician; i.e. vaccines are bad.

Might I point out Trump’s New Favorite COVID Doctor Believes in Alien DNA, Demon Sperm and Hydroxychloroquine

 

[IsleyOfTheNorth]

Might I point out Trump’s New Favorite COVID Doctor Believes in Alien DNA, Demon Sperm and Hydroxychloroquine

You're not wrong, but she's an outlier. How many nurses are anti-vaccine? Are you sure you want to hand a megaphone to that group? Popularity != proficiency.

 

[DrNotaDr]

You're not wrong, but she's an outlier. How many nurses are anti-vaccine? Are you sure you want to hand a megaphone to that group? Popularity != proficiency.

Then there’s always this peach; Trump coronavirus adviser Scott Atlas urges Michigan to 'rise up' against new Covid-19 measures

His idea of beating covid involving the unnecessary deaths of a couple million. As much as some hate the nursing orgs, the fact remains that their politiking’ is second to none, and they would careful pick a nurse who would toe the line.

 

[GoSpursGo]

That's true for hospital administrators, psychologists, social workers, politicians, EMTs, sanitation engineers, volunteers, rescue dogs....

Should we add one of each? All upside, no downside, yes?

Agree with Matt, that's over the top. None of the people that you mention have the level of direct patient contact with patients being treated for COVID as nurses. They will also be directly responsible for carrying out physicians' orders. When planning out a coordinated response, they deserve a seat at the table, and if we don't give them one then you're just asking for them to pitch a fit about the plan not being feasible or realistic. Which is probably an accurate complaint--a lot of times when I place an order, I have no clue how that care is actually delivered.

Might I point out Trump’s New Favorite COVID Doctor Believes in Alien DNA, Demon Sperm and Hydroxychloroquine

Then there’s always this peach; Trump coronavirus adviser Scott Atlas urges Michigan to 'rise up' against new Covid-19 measures

His idea of beating covid involving the unnecessary deaths of a couple million. As much as some hate the nursing orgs, the fact remains that their politiking’ is second to none, and they would careful pick a nurse who would toe the line.

Since we're talking about Biden's advisory committee, I'm not sure how pointing out a couple of wackos on Trump's team adds to the discussion.

 

[DrNotaDr]

Agree with Matt, that's over the top. None of the people that you mention have the level of direct patient contact with patients being treated for COVID as nurses. They will also be directly responsible for carrying out physicians' orders. When planning out a coordinated response, they deserve a seat at the table, and if we don't give them one then you're just asking for them to pitch a fit about the plan not being feasible or realistic. Which is probably an accurate complaint--a lot of times when I place an order, I have no clue how that care is actually delivered.


Since we're talking about Biden's advisory committee, I'm not sure how pointing out a couple of wackos on Trump's team adds to the discussion.

The discussion was about how nurses are generally less EBP based than docs, and as a nurse myself, yes I agree. I’ve heard some bat**** crazy essential oil nonsense spew forth from the bedside RN... but there are also some not particularly stable docs in the national spotlight as well. If nursing orgs do one thing right it’s message control. I don’t think anyone has to worry about the nurse being chosen to sit on the advisory committee giving bad advice or bringing discredit to the profession.

 

[IsleyOfTheNorth]

If nursing orgs do one thing right it’s message control. I don’t think anyone has to worry about the nurse being chosen to sit on the advisory committee giving bad advice or bringing discredit to the profession.

Yes, but do you understand that putting a nurse in such a high profile positions increases the authority and trust in the anti-vax, essential oil nurses as well?

 

[DrNotaDr]

Yes, but do you understand that putting a nurse in such a high profile positions increases the authority and trust in the anti-vax, essential oil nurses as well?

I literally just addressed your point. Did you.... did you read it? They are the most trusted profession whether you like it or not so the trust is already there.

 

[IsleyOfTheNorth]

I literally just addressed your point. Did you.... did you read it? They are the most trusted profession whether you like it or not so the trust is already there.

Sorry but I don't think you've addressed my point.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Yes, but do you understand that putting a nurse in such a high profile positions increases the authority and trust in the anti-vax, essential oil nurses as well?

I don't agree with that.

Basically any multidisciplinary team that I've ever been a part of on an institutional level includes a nurse on it, and it hasn't resulted in us and our patients all suddenly losing our minds and believing anti-vax propaganda. Having a nurse on this task force would not be unusual.

 

[DrNotaDr]

Sorry but I don't think you've addressed my point.

The crazy nurses in my experience say it at the nurses station during report not with the patient. Having a PhD RN, who im sure while be the quality of nurse chosen, on the panel has only upsides.

 

[IsleyOfTheNorth]

The crazy nurses in my experience say it at the nurses station during report not with the patient. Having a PhD RN, who im sure while be the quality of nurse chosen, on the panel has only upsides.

Just as an exercise, try Googling "Nurse anti-vax" and see how many hits you get. Here's one of the first hits: USA: 22,000 nurses refuse *mandatory* vaccinations — The Vaccine Confidence Project

Edit: Here's another fun one: "nurses essential oils"
Edit: One more "nurse acupuncture"

 

[GoSpursGo]

Just as an exercise, try Googling "Nurse anti-vax" and see how many hits you get. Here's one of the first hits: USA: 22,000 nurses refuse *mandatory* vaccinations — The Vaccine Confidence Project

Edit: Here's another fun one: "nurses essential oils"

I don't know what else to tell you. If you're going to get up in arms every time a nurse is included on a team, you're going to spend the majority of your career with your outrage turned up to 11.

 

[DrNotaDr]

Just as an exercise, try Googling "Nurse anti-vax" and see how many hits you get. Here's one of the first hits: USA: 22,000 nurses refuse *mandatory* vaccinations — The Vaccine Confidence Project

Edit: Here's another fun one: "nurses essential oils"
Edit: One more "nurse acupuncture"

Since you’re immune to reason let me throw some hard truths at ya. A PhD prepared administrator RN with decades of hospital admin experience is more qualified to determine workflow that will work versus which won’t on an advisory committee than having an extra epidemiology MD repeating the same viewpoint the rest of the committee has. Hospitals are run administratively by nurses. Sorry to have to be the one to tell you this.

 

[RangerBob]

I'm a little shocked at people thinking RNs don't belong on the task force. As pointed out above, RNs literally run the hospitals. Us docs basically just show up/round/operate and go home. Hospitals are traditionally nurse-run. Workflow is their domain. Administering vaccines is their domain. We just write the order.

Yes, there are RNs out there who don't follow EBM, have random beliefs, moreso than docs. But the good nurse leaders know how to get stuff done. Any doc who has been practicing even a year or two knows the value of a strong nurse manager.

 

[IsleyOfTheNorth]

I don't know what else to tell you. If you're going to get up in arms every time a nurse is included on a team, you're going to spend the majority of your career with your outrage turned up to 11.

Is that what I'm doing? Because my intent is to point out the dangers of elevating nurses, who, as a group often advocate non-evidence based medicine, as an authority figure equivalent to physicians.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Is that what I'm doing? Because my intent is to point out the dangers of elevating nurses, who, as a group often advocate non-evidence based medicine, as an authority figure equivalent to physicians.

Yes, that's what you're doing

Putting one nurse on the team along with multiple physicians isn't elevating nurses, it's recognizing their importance in the implementation of any plan that the team comes up with. Some nurses' views on EBM have nothing to do with the importance of making sure that any plan the team comes up with actually is feasible from a nurse perspective. And all of the nurses I've ever worked with on these teams have been eminently reasonable.

 

[DrNotaDr]

Yes, that's what you're doing

Putting one nurse on the team along with multiple physicians isn't elevating nurses, it's recognizing their importance in the implementation of any plan that the team comes up with. Some nurses' views on EBM have nothing to do with the importance of making sure that any plan the team comes up with actually is feasible from a nurse perspective. And all of the nurses I've ever worked with on these teams have been eminently reasonable.

The anti NP sentiment I understand, but these forums (a few posters in particular) have taken a dangerous turn towards attacking nursing as a profession as a whole. I don’t think this is what you want on these public forums.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Is that what I'm doing? Because my intent is to point out the dangers of elevating nurses, who, as a group often advocate non-evidence based medicine, as an authority figure equivalent to physicians.

Who is talking about elevating nurses to being equal to physicians? And equal in what way? Literally the argument is that the offer a valuable perspective being the most directly involved in delivering care to COVID patients and have the nation’s ear. That is all valuable.

I am one of the most vocal anti-nursing lobby, anti-independent practice folks out there. I also think that saying doctors are “punching down” when they are fighting against independent practice, but acting like any sort of teamwork with nurses is somehow “elevating them” or something is just unnecessarily antagonistic.

 

[Osminog]

There are many types of healthcare professionals, and all of their perspectives matter. That doesn’t mean that representatives from each profession need to be on the task force. The task force should absolutely consult with and survey nurses (and other professionals) to gain a more complete understanding of healthcare delivery and logistics—but I’m not so sure that a nurse should be directly involved in the high-level development of extremely consequential public health policies.

 

[DrNotaDr]

There are many types of healthcare professionals, and all of their perspectives matter. That doesn’t mean that representatives from each profession need to be on the task force. The task force should absolutely consult with and survey nurses (and other professionals) to gain a more complete understanding of healthcare delivery and logistics—but I’m not so sure that a nurse should be directly involved in the high-level development of extremely consequential public health policies.

Nurses administratively run the healthcare system. I’m completely lost on what your logic is. Physicians can’t unilaterally decide to surge staff a single extra hospital bed without the input of nursing. Not true of PT/OT/RT. They are not all in the same bag of ancillary staff to docs. Multiple that by the healthcare system of an entire nation. Can you explain your logic on excluding them?

 

[Lawpy]

If anything it sounds like all nurses need to be better trained in EBM to avoid promoting nonsense. That doesn't change the fact that nurses are allies and can share important perspectives

 

[Osminog]

Nurses administratively run the healthcare system. I’m completely lost on what your logic is. Physicians can’t unilaterally decide to surge staff a single extra hospital bed without the input of nursing. Not true of PT/OT/RT. They are not all in the same bag of ancillary staff to docs. Multiple that by the healthcare system of an entire nation. Can you explain your logic on excluding them?

Nurses don’t “administratively run the hospital” just because physicians and administrators have to accommodate them when making administrative decisions. Waiters and waitresses don’t run a restaurant just because the restaurant owner has to take their opinions into consideration when adjusting the restaurant’s hours of operation.

I don’t mean to be rude, but most of my former high school classmates who pursued nursing were mediocre students who could barely make it through geometry class. While I’m sure some nurses are quite intelligent and thoughtful, nothing about being a nurse qualifies someone to make top-down managerial decisions at a hospital, let alone on a national public health task force.

 

[DrNotaDr]

Nurses don’t “administratively run the hospital” just because physicians and administrators have to accommodate them when making administrative decisions. Waiters and waitresses don’t run a restaurant just because the restaurant owner has to take their opinions into consideration when adjusting the restaurant’s hours of operation.

I don’t mean to be rude, but most of my former high school classmates who pursued nursing were mediocre students who could barely make it through geometry class. While I’m sure some nurses are quite intelligent and thoughtful, nothing about being a nurse qualifies someone to make top-down managerial decisions at a hospital, let alone on a national public health task force.

You’re wrong. I suggest you educate yourself by listening to the physicians on this forums who are telling you differently.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Nurses don’t “administratively run the hospital” just because physicians and administrators have to accommodate them when making administrative decisions. Waiters and waitresses don’t run a restaurant just because the restaurant owner has to take their opinions into consideration when adjusting the restaurant’s hours of operation.

I don’t mean to be rude, but most of my former high school classmates who pursued nursing were mediocre students who could barely make it through geometry class. While I’m sure some nurses are quite intelligent and thoughtful, nothing about being a nurse qualifies someone to make top-down managerial decisions at a hospital, let alone on a national public health task force.

Of course plenty of nurses aren't stellar students. But we're not talking about picking up Betty Sue the floor nurse from Kansas to be on this task force.

Its more likely to be someone like this: | UCLA School of Nursing

 

[Osminog]

Of course plenty of nurses aren't stellar students. But we're not talking about picking up Betty Sue the floor nurse from Kansas to be on this task force.

Its more likely to be someone like this: | UCLA School of Nursing

Most academics in nursing departments have been in the ivory tower for so long that they aren’t necessarily able to accurately comment on the everyday experiences of nurses on the front lines during the pandemic. If the whole point of adding a nurse to the task force is to be inclusive of the perspectives of nurses, then I’m not sure how adding a nursing professor would contribute to achieving that goal.

Some nursing professors happen to have formal backgrounds in public health and health management; unlike a PhD in nursing, these are credentials that are actually relevant to whether someone would be a good fit for the task force.

In my opinion, the task force should consist of some of the brightest minds in medicine, public health, and health policy. I would hope that the task force would strive to account for the experiences of nurses, dentists, CNAs, hospital janitors... anybody in the front lines, really—but there’s no need for a nurse to be in a top-down policy-making role.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Most academics in nursing departments have been in the ivory tower for so long that they aren’t necessarily able to accurately comment on the everyday experiences of nurses on the front lines during the pandemic. If the whole point of adding a nurse to the task force is to be inclusive of the perspectives of nurses, then I’m not sure how adding a nursing professor would contribute to achieving that goal.

Some nursing professors happen to have formal backgrounds in public health and health management; unlike a PhD in nursing, these are credentials that are actually relevant to whether someone would be a good fit for the task force.

In my opinion, the task force should consist of some of the brightest minds in medicine, public health, and health policy. I would hope that the task force would strive to account for the experiences of nurses, dentists, CNAs, hospital janitors... anybody in the front lines, really—but there’s no need for a nurse to be in a top-down policy-making role.

I feel like the CNO of UCLA is actually the ideal person. Who do you think sets nursing policy for that hospital?

 

[DrNotaDr]

Most academics in nursing departments have been in the ivory tower for so long that they aren’t necessarily able to accurately comment on the everyday experiences of nurses on the front lines during the pandemic. If the whole point of adding a nurse to the task force is to be inclusive of the perspectives of nurses, then I’m not sure how adding a nursing professor would contribute to achieving that goal.

Some nursing professors happen to have formal backgrounds in public health and health management; unlike a PhD in nursing, these are credentials that are actually relevant to whether someone would be a good fit for the task force.

In my opinion, the task force should consist of some of the brightest minds in medicine, public health, and health policy. I would hope that the task force would strive to account for the experiences of nurses, dentists, CNAs, hospital janitors... anybody in the front lines, really—but there’s no need for a nurse to be in a top-down policy-making role.

Nice inflammatory response. Grouping nursing in with the janitors; class act. Are you saying a nurse can’t have one of the brightest minds in hospital administration and can’t benefit the task force?

 

[Osminog]

I feel like the CNO of UCLA is actually the ideal person. Who do you think sets nursing policy for that hospital?

As a hospital executive, she would be a good person for the task force to consult when they’re trying to determine the logistics of their initiatives, prior to the implementation phase. She probably has a strong practical knowledge of hospital operations.

Nice inflammatory response. Grouping nursing in with the janitors; class act. Are you saying a nurse can’t have one of the brightest minds in hospital administration and can’t benefit the task force?

What’s wrong with janitors? Hospital janitors are on the frontlines during the pandemic, and they play a crucial role. Their views and experiences matter, though I wouldn’t want to put a major hospital’s chief of custodial services on the task force.

Someone who happens to have a nursing degree may be qualified to serve on the task force, but it wouldn’t be because he or she has a background in nursing. There are physicians, public health experts, biostatisticians, etc., who happen to have nursing degrees, and some of them may very well be good fits for the task force.

 

[DrNotaDr]

As a hospital executive, she would be a good person for the task force to consult when they’re trying to determine the logistics of their initiatives, prior to the implementation phase. She probably has a strong practical knowledge of hospital operations.



What’s wrong with janitors? Hospital janitors are on the frontlines during the pandemic, and they play a crucial role. Their views and experiences matter, though I wouldn’t want to put a major hospital’s chief of custodial services on the task force.

Someone who happens to have a nursing degree may be qualified to serve on the task force, but it wouldn’t be because he or she has a background in nursing. There are physicians, public health experts, biostatisticians, etc., who happen to have nursing degrees, and some of them may very well be good fits for the task force.

You don’t know how healthcare in the US runs. Enjoy medical school, good luck in your courses.

 

[GoSpursGo]

As a hospital executive, she would be a good person for the task force to consult when they’re trying to determine the logistics of their initiatives, prior to the implementation phase. She probably has a strong practical knowledge of hospital operations.

What’s wrong with janitors? Hospital janitors are on the frontlines during the pandemic, and they play a crucial role. Their views and experiences matter, though I wouldn’t want to put a major hospital’s chief of custodial services on the task force.

Someone who happens to have a nursing degree may be qualified to serve on the task force, but it wouldn’t be because he or she has a background in nursing. There are physicians, public health experts, biostatisticians, etc., who happen to have nursing degrees, and some of them may very well be good fits for the task force.

This is honestly absurd, and while it sounds conceited to say this, you and a few other medical students here simply don't understand how things work in the real world. Nurses aren't simply "another ancillary member of the health team," they are the single most important part of delivering the care that is prescribed by a physician. On a day-to-day basis when I'm on service, I interface directly with nurses a heck of a lot more than any other member of the team simply because: 1) I need to make sure the orders that I entered are understood correctly; and 2) that the orders that I entered are actually feasible and don't violate something like line compatibility problems, floor policies, requests of the patient, etc. I don't talk directly to most of the other individuals that you mentioned simply because they aren't as intimately involved in carrying out the plan that I am trying to put in place. Since the nurses would be implementing the plan conceived by the task force, it is reasonable to ask to be part of the team.

So, I wouldn't consider it a travesty if a nurse ISN'T on the task force. But I understand why nurses are asking to be included, and personally would think it makes good sense. Frankly, I think we're getting pretty far into the weeds about something that ultimately wouldn't make a ton of difference in the long term recommendations that this team makes, and this is just turning into an opportunity for people to bash nurses for no reason.

 

[frenchyn]

I agree. It extremely easy to become nurse.

These comments are extremely ignorant. Just because people pick a different path or degree for whatever reason, does not make them less important than you. Quit being so entitled just because you have that M.D. behind your name. Please show this attitude at the hospital, trust me you will have a very "fun" time and won't get far.

 

[Splenda88]

These comments are extremely ignorant. Just because people pick a different path or degree for whatever reason, does not make them less important than you. Quit being so entitled just because you have that M.D. behind your name. Please show this attitude at the hospital, trust me you will have a very "fun" time and won't get far.

I just stated something that is true, but that does not mean nurses are less than doctors... Just like it's easier to become a doctor than getting a PhD in physics.

 

[frenchyn]

I just stated something that is true, but that does not mean nurses are less than doctors... Just like it's easier to become a doctor than getting a PhD in physics.

So...? People have their own values and goals...Some may not like to spend years in medical school...I don't see how this is relevant in this discussion...are you trying to say since they get an easier degree their voice is insignificant?

 

[Splenda88]

So...? People have their own values and goals...Some may not like to spend years in medical school...I don't see how this is relevant in this discussion...are you trying to say since they get an easier degree their voice is insignificant?

No I was not trying to say that...

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

So...? People have their own values and goals...Some may not like to spend years in medical school...I don't see how this is relevant in this discussion...are you trying to say since they get an easier degree their voice is insignificant?

You’re inferring things he didn’t say. He said it is easy to become a nurse. Nursing courses are fairly easy. They a mostly watered down versions of science courses. This doesn’t apply to all nursing schools, but a lot of them.

 

[FutureInternist]

I used to work at a hotel in undergrad and got to go to a management meeting when a big group was going to be staying there.
Their rep asked for wake up calls at 7 am for all ~200 of the rooms they had.
Our GM says No problem, and everyone agrees.
I raise my hand and say “But our system only allows for 5 wake up calls per minute” so for 200 rooms we would need 40 minutes.
Shocked looks all around.
We decided to start wake up calls at 630.

Not being on the frontlines gives you a skewed view of whats possible so policies that may look good on paper, can completely fail once implemented since no one thought of XYZ.

Bottom line - All front line workers should be involved.

This is not a medical knowledge thing, but a logistics issue.

 

[DrNotaDr]

You’re inferring things he didn’t say. He said it is easy to become a nurse. Nursing courses are fairly easy. They a mostly watered down versions of science courses. This doesn’t apply to all nursing schools, but a lot of them.

RN bashing is against TOS of SDN. It’s not “extremely easy” to become a RN. The failure rate of RN school is fairly high.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

RN bashing is against TOS of SDN. It’s not “extremely easy” to become a RN. The failure rate of RN school is fairly high.

That doesn't prove anything.

The med school failure rate is very low, does that mean it's easy?

 

[Dr.K124]

RN bashing is against TOS of SDN. It’s not “extremely easy” to become a RN. The failure rate of RN school is fairly high.

Easy? No. Relatively easy in relation to becoming a physician? Absolutely.

 

[DrNotaDr]

Easy? No. Relatively easy in relation to becoming a physician? Oh god yes.

Sure, easier than becoming a Doc, but most things are, that doesn’t make it “extremely easy” nursing has been noted as one of the tougher bachelors degrees to get. But let’s not talk about the OP openly bashing nurses and breaking TOS, because that’s inconvenient.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

RN bashing is against TOS of SDN. It’s not “extremely easy” to become a RN. The failure rate of RN school is fairly high.

Saying nursing school is easy is not a TOS violation. I’ve taken some nursing classes, and my wife is a nurse. They are very easy compared to medical school. That is not an insult to nurses. I also did a year of paralegal classes, which were much easier than med school. That doesn’t mean paralegals are dumb or that they are “less than” or anything.

On the other hand, nothing I’ve done in med school yet has been as academically challenging as my upper division math courses for my math degree. That doesn’t make physicians less than mathematicians.

This whole idea of who is better or less than is really stupid. Having a hierarchy in medicine is important to effective teamwork. The only people who have a problem with that and try to read things into it about personal worth are people with inferiority complexes (and that goes for nurses and physicians).

 

[Dr.K124]

Sure, easier than becoming a Doc, but most things are, that doesn’t make it “extremely easy” nursing has been noted as one of the tougher bachelors degrees to get. But let’s not talk about the OP openly bashing nurses and breaking TOS, because that’s inconvenient.

Saying nursing school is easy is not a TOS violation. I’ve taken some nursing classes, and my wife is a nurse. They are very easy compared to medical school. That is not an insult to nurses. I also did a year of paralegal classes, which were much easier than med school. That doesn’t mean paralegals are dumb or that they are “less than” or anything.

I think there is a lot of misinterpretation involved here. Nursing is certainly not "extremely easy," it just appears that way to someone on the other side of the goliath-sized marathon that is medical school and residency.

There is no need to be hostile toward one another. @DrNotaDr I apologize if we portrayed your profession as less than it is. The vast majority of doctors appreciate the vast majority of nurses. @Matthew9Thirtyfive while you are correct that they are easier than medical school, must you have worded it like so?

 

[DrNotaDr]

Saying nursing school is easy is not a TOS violation. I’ve taken some nursing classes, and my wife is a nurse. They are very easy compared to medical school. That is not an insult to nurses. I also did a year of paralegal classes, which were much easier than med school. That doesn’t mean paralegals are dumb or that they are “less than” or anything.

On the other hand, nothing I’ve done in med school yet has been as academically challenging as my upper division math courses for my math degree. That doesn’t make physicians less than mathematicians.

This whole idea of who is better or less than is really stupid. Having a hierarchy in medicine is important to effective teamwork. The only people who have a problem with that and try to read things into it about personal worth are people with inferiority complexes (and that goes for nurses and physicians).

I’d just like to point out that another admin here has already noted the OP is unnecessarily antagonists, and this entire thread is basically RN bashing. It doesn’t look good for your profession and it’s against TOS, but feel free to let it continue reflect poorly on these forums and the docs on here who want to have good relationships with the largest profession in healthcare.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I think there is a lot of misinterpretation involved here. Nursing is certainly not "extremely easy," it just appears that way to someone on the other side of the goliath-sized marathon that is medical school and residency.

There is no need to be hostile toward one another. @DrNotaDr I apologize if we portrayed your profession as less than it is. The vast majority of doctors appreciate the vast majority of nurses. @Matthew9Thirtyfive while you are correct that they are easier than medical school, must you have worded it like so?

How else would I have said that nursing school is easier than medical school? That isn’t a judgement on any sort of worth or value. As I said, many things are easier than med school, and plenty of things are harder. The only people who want to assign worth to whether something is easier or harder are insecure people with inferiority complexes, and that includes nurses, premeds, med students, and physicians (not to mention midlevels).

I will say it one more time for the people in the back. Saying nursing school is easier than med school does not imply that nurses are inferior to physicians, and it doesn’t imply that nursing is easy. Those are both logically invalid inferences.

 

[DrNotaDr]

I think there is a lot of misinterpretation involved here. Nursing is certainly not "extremely easy," it just appears that way to someone on the other side of the goliath-sized marathon that is medical school and residency.

There is no need to be hostile toward one another. @DrNotaDr I apologize if we portrayed your profession as less than it is. The vast majority of doctors appreciate the vast majority of nurses. @Matthew9Thirtyfive while you are correct that they are easier than medical school, must you have worded it like so?

Thanks Dr.K great post. Of course nursing is easier then medical school, I was just trying to call out bad behavior, which the moderator is contributing to.

 

[Dr.K124]

How else would I have said that nursing school is easier than medical school? That isn’t a judgement on any sort of worth or value. As I said, many things are easier than med school, and plenty of things are harder. The only people who want to assign worth to whether something is easier or harder are insecure people with inferiority complexes, and that includes nurses, premeds, med students, and physicians (not to mention midlevels).

I will say it one more time for the people in the back. Saying nursing school is easier than med school does not imply that nurses are inferior to physicians, and it doesn’t imply that nursing is easy. Those are both logically invalid inferences.

You assume that people always think logically and are not prone to misunderstanding. While you indeed did not claim nurses to be inferior, I understand how someone could interpret your words in that manner, especially considering this sentiment has appeared many times within the same thread.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I’d just like to point out that another admin here has already noted the OP is unnecessarily antagonists, and this entire thread is basically RN bashing. It doesn’t look good for your profession and it’s against TOS, but feel free to let it continue reflect poorly on these forums and the docs on here who want to have good relationships with the largest profession in healthcare.

Have you read the thread? There are like two people saying nurses don’t belong on the task force, and literally everyone else disagreeing with that and saying nurses are a valuable member of the team and have input.

The posts you claim are bashing nurses are referring to their lobby (which has questionable goals) and the difficulty of nursing school (which again, saying nursing school is easier than med school is not a TOS violation).

So it would seem that the vast majority of people in this thread are actually supporting nurses being included on the task force and being a critical member of the healthcare team.

If you don’t like what a user is saying, feel free to ignore them. You can also ignore threads that you don’t want to see. Also keep in mind that you are not privy to all moderator actions.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

You assume that people always think logically and are not prone to misunderstanding. While you indeed did not claim nurses to be inferior, I understand how someone could interpret your words in that manner, especially considering this sentiment has appeared many times within the same thread.

Except that I very explicitly stated what I repeated in that post. I literally said nursing school being easier does not make it a lesser profession. This is getting off topic.