MSTP Boulevard part 01

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Congrats BME02! :D
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•••quote:•••Originally posted by A. Caveman:
•this is a very lively discussion. allow me to bring it up to 801 posts!!

PS. i'm surprised you guys have THIS much to talk about.•••••Yeah, this has gotta be the longest thread in SDN history! ... any stats available on this? :D
 
weird. i know that Watcha's thread is not far behind this one. frankly i thought you mstp's wouldn't be able to keep up this pace and that thread would finally lap this one. you boys are supposed to be minding your experiments. NO TALKING IN THE LAB!

PS. good question. i'll start a thread about it
 
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BME02!
Congrats man!!! Do you think you'll be at Duke in the fall?
 
JBC actually doesn't take very long to reply back. From my experience I'd say 3 weeks.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by JJ4:
•JBC actually doesn't take very long to reply back. From my experience I'd say 3 weeks.•••••Three weeks?! <img border="0" alt="[Wowie]" title="" src="graemlins/wowie.gif" />
Is anyone submitting to JBC anymore? j/k :wink:
 
I've heard that each section/topic in JBC has a separate editor and the turnaround time varies among each editor.

BTW, Congrats BME02! What other programs are you considering?

MapK
 
Hey guys, I got an email from Mich MSTP director Dr.Koenig saying that I got in. (interview 2/15) Yeah! Who here is considering Mich seriously?

Also, I found it interesting/strange that at UCLA, there are only 5 1st yr MSTP students while there are 14 MIIs.(u can check this at their website) Is this b/c 1. website is wrong 2. they picked too many the yr b4 so they picked only 5 this yr 3. UCLA MSTP accepts students from reg MD class after the 1st yr ?? Are these variances commmon in all MST programs?
 
Chef,
Congrats! UMich is absolutely Awesome. Ann Arbor is a nice beautiful town too. Sharp contrast to the hussle and bussle of LA. I didn't apply to UMich cause they don't accept international students. Are you going to your Stanford interview? I got an invite but it seems to be just for regular MD. I've tried to contact Marjorie and ask if I have an MSTP one but I haven't gotten her. Anyway, congrats again!

*I think RNAgir1, Adam, and Baylor21 got into UMich as well.
 
Congrats chef!! So no more Sinai or are you keeping your options open?? :D :clap:
 
congratulations to chef as well ! that's exciting.

on another note: are any of you guys waiting to hear from penn? if you do hear, can you let me know? i'm anxious . . .

-s
 
Congratulations chef!!!

Maybe we'll be classmates at U Mich, starting July 1st, of course :) Wow, it would be great to already have a friend from SDN. It's my top choice at this point, but I'm still waiting to hear from Yale and a few others. How about you?

:clap:
 
Original,

I was offered a Michigan MSTP interview, but I withdrew my app and decided not to go to it, since I had already heard back from WashU by that time.

I seriously considered going anyways, but I was missing too much school/work due to interviews to justify it.

My status right now is I'm waiting to hear back from Johns Hopkins about funding, as well as Yale and Penn. Once I get those decisions, I'll make a final choice.

I'll be going to the WashU 2nd look on April 12th. See you there.
 
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•••quote:•••Originally posted by chef:
•
Also, I found it interesting/strange that at UCLA, there are only 5 1st yr MSTP students while there are 14 MIIs.(u can check this at their website) Is this b/c 1. website is wrong 2. they picked too many the yr b4 so they picked only 5 this yr 3. UCLA MSTP accepts students from reg MD class after the 1st yr ?? Are these variances commmon in all MST programs?•••••Congrats chef!
Here's the deal with UCLA: Yes, you read it correctly that there are only 5 first year MSTPs. In addition, three of them were at UCLA for undergrad. The vast majority of their accepted students decided to go elsewhere. They admitted ~30 students initially and then went through their whole waitlist.

It is unusual for them to not fill their 12 spots, though there is some variation from year-to-year. Last year, they really did very little recruiting--only had students take us out to lunch, there was no orientation, and the day was kind of on-your-own, self-guided.

I think for this year they made some changes (from what I've heard from you guys and from my former PI who is involved in UCLA MSTP admissions). They were losing too many applicants to other schools not to change their ways. So at least it's good to see they're adapting.

Again, congrats and if you need help in deciding, you have your MSTP-Boulevard compatriots backing you up. :D
 
C O N G R A T S C H E F !!!!

That's amazing!! Man, hell with Sinai. Go to U.Mich instead... Oh well, that's at least what I think. U.Mich is a fantastic MD/PhD Program. A good friend of mine is an MSTP-I student there (Joe). Say Hi to him if you meet him!!

I know that he loves it at Mich, and IMHO, the world's greatest neurosurgeon - Dr. Ben Carson (who's now the chief of pediatric neurosurgery at Hopkins) went to med school there!! That should say a lot about the training.
 
Hey Sonic -- Sinai ain't THAT bad ...but yes UMich is definitely better.
 
Hey guys and gals, thanks so much!! I still can't believe that I got into Mich MSTP. I eliminated a few schools already, but still keeping my options open. Mich has an outstanding program there. Plus the students I met there were probably the nicest, sincerest, and most kind bunch of people I met anywhere around the country.(comes close to people on this board :D )

Sonic: Yes, Umich has a great tradition of producing outstanding surgeons. 1 out of 9 surgeons in the US have trained at UMich Surgery at point in their career!

My only reservation about UMich is its WEATHER.. ARrrrgghh
 
Hey Chef - IMHO -- location aside, you should look into the departments at the schools that you are considering and see whose research best suits YOUR interests. I had a friend that went to the Cornell/Rock/Ski program because of its rep but just absolutely could not find something that interested him very much he finally picked a lab and finished in 8 yrs. but wasn't so excited through the process. I want to be in a lab that completely captures my interest and does some serious endorphin kicking. I ended up turning down Case Western and UCLA for instance because I simply could not find a lab that totally captured my interests (although location was SLIGHT influence). Hopefully by the end of this semester I will know who exactly I want to do my thesis with and the lab rotations will just be a technical experience and a formality. Good Luck and CONGRATS!
 
hey JJ4: thanks for your insightful comments. I really haven't started thinking seriously about where I'll be next yr b/c I am still waiting on a few schools, but I imagine I'll be agonizing over my choices come April and May.

BTW, have u decided where you'll go? Mayo or Sinai?? Let us know!!!
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by baylor21:
•Original,
I'll be going to the WashU 2nd look on April 12th. See you there.•••••Awesome! That makes Sonic, yourself, and me. It'd be fun. See you there. :clap:
 
Hey JJ4 -

I apologize profusely for bringing that comparison between Sinai and Michigan for Chef. I just got carried away with Chef's good news... that's all.

I applied to Sinai myself, and only because I had already heard back from Hopkins did I turn down their interview offer and withdraw my application. The other MD/PhD I know from my country, who is a fantastic researcher -- now associate professor of pathology at Stanford -- is a graduate from the Sinai program. She loved it. So don't get me wrong... I'm all FOR Mount Sinai!!
 
Don't worry Sonic -- no offense taken :D
It's all part of the game. :wink:
 
MAPKinkster,

Right now I am considering Wash U, Emory and Duke MSTP programs. I am still waiting to hear from Harvard after my HST interview. I think that I will probably be at Wash U next year. I think it just comes down the the vibe you get at the school and the research that is there. I really enjoyed being at all the schools and there are advantages and disadvantages to each. I would be happy to discuss those later.

I am planning on going to all of the school's second looks, Wash U's April 12th, I heard Duke's is April 3-5?, and Emory's March 25-27.
 
Is ANYONE going to WashU for second visit on March 21-22nd? I don't want to be the only SDN representative out there :(

Do you guys know when Harvard MSTP is going to make decisions?

thanks! <img border="0" alt="[Lovey]" title="" src="graemlins/lovey.gif" />
 
Academic -

Why don't you come with me, Baylor21, and Original to the April 12th revisit!!?? Unfortunately, I have a final scheduled on March 22, so would not be able to make it there.
 
Academic,
I second Sonic. Why not come and hang-out with ur fellow SDNers. :clap:
 
Hey,

Like the rest of you I am in the midst of the decision making process. I am somewhat leaning toward U Mich, but am not 100% sure yet. I hear they're building a brand new facility into clinically relevant signalling research and that's kinda pulling me in .... Anyway, for those of you who are accepted and thinking of going to UM (Adam and/or RNAgirl), can you tell me why you want to go there, and maybe where you did your undergrad (perhaps e-mail :wink:

As far as other schools, I liked Case and Wash U as well. Case had really the most laid back people and an excellent show during the second look (ha ha Doc opera). Wash U 's reputation speaks for itself, though I am a bit iffy about the school and one of the profs who interviewed me was really down on the place. I am going to see UM by myself (they don't have a formal second look) on March 18-19th and will probably go to Wash U in April. Any comments welcome. I hope to see some of you in Wash U, and others as my classmates next year. Take care
 
anyone heard from yale mstp yet? when are they mailing out the decisions? will it be via email/phone/snail mail? good luck everyone.. :clap:
 
Hi all,
I just spent 3 hours reading this thread. It's like a soap opera! I'm currently a 6th year mud-phud and am seriously procrastinating writing my thesis at the moment. I have to say you all seem like a great group. I don't go to a school that you all are applying to - it's not MSTP, although funding is guarenteed from the school for all the years. However, I would be happy to answer any general MD/PhD questions.
Regarding the choice of research you do affecting future goals - I would reiterate the choose a lab you find interesting, but I would have to add that if you are interested in something like derm. then having done research in the field would be a huge plus come match time. Although I think it is impossible as a pre-med to really know what med specialty you want. I'm still trying to figure it out.

Also, someone asked a while ago about buying a house. I would highly suggest looking into to this. It sickens me to think of the rent money I have spent so far. If you have the money or parental support for a down-payment then I say definately. Several students in my program ended up buying houses half-way through and that just doesn't seem like the best way. Do it early and reap all the benefits. Plus, if its big enough, you could rent to med students and probably get your mortgage covered.

A final good luck and congrats to you all! It is a long journey but definately a fun ride.
:D
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by chef:
•anyone heard from yale mstp yet? when are they mailing out the decisions? will it be via email/phone/snail mail? good luck everyone.. :clap: •••••Hi chef!

I called the Yale MSTP office in late Feb. and, at that time, they told me that decision letters would be mailed out the first week of March. Obviously, they are running behind schedule. I was thinking about calling again, but I haven't done so yet.

I feel bad for holding out on Michigan since they gave me an early acceptance, but these other schools are being so slow!

Do you think you'll arrange a second look for Michigan? They don't have a formal weekend, but said they would be happy to arrange another visit if it would help in making a decision.
 
Hi yawn! Thanks for joining our thread. :clap:

I remember when I joined SDN and first discovered this thread. It took me several hours to read, and I couldn't get over how much useful info. it contained.

I just wanted to say hello and wish you good luck with your thesis! :D
 
Hey yawn,
It's great to hear from a more senior student. I assume you're probably mostly focused on your thesis right now, but are you nervous at all about going back for the last two clinical years?

Again, welcome! :D
 
Hey all,

It's been a while since I posted, I've been real busy. I know there have been a couple of questions directed at me and I'll try and answer them soon :) Anyhow, I just got back from Northwestern, my last interview. I had a great time...what an awsome location...it really seems to be the primary reason for going there.

I am still very interested in U Mich because it has such strong research, and I like Ann Arbor. I didn't think the medical school fit me as good as at some other places, but that's ok, since I think the research is more important. I'm probably going to turn down UCLA though, since I really don't think I could stand it there for 8 years, and I wasn't real impressed by the program, although the research there is also awsome.

On another note, does anyone know when UCSF and Stanford make their MSTP decisions? And, do they mail or call or what? I know it should be coming up soon. I'm pretty nervous about those two, since I think they're my two top choices.

That's it for now.

Good luck all,

Adam
 
I called Sue Sansone at Yale this morning and she said that the decision-making has been delayed. They were supposed to have sent out the letters by Monday, but there were some scheduling problems with the committee and as a result, the letters won't go out until next monday. She also said that accepted students will receive emails.

Adam, Stanford has not sent out decisions to anyone yet. I only found out from an unofficial source since I goto school here. They said by around a week or two they should be mailing out letters.
 
Original, Sonic, Baylor21 and others,

Had I known that you guys were going to WashU in April, I would have picked that date. I can't change my mind now, since they already bought my airplane tickets. But who knows, maybe we'll be classmates next year :)
I will definitely let you guys know how the 2nd visit goes.

I can't wait until tomorrow, so I can watch the NCAA tournament!
 
Yawn,
Welcome to SDN! It's great hearing from someone who has just lived the life we'll be living over the next 7 years. I would love to buy a house and save some $, but I'm guessing that my credit perished before it was even born. In anycase I still intend to explore the possibility. Good luck with your thesis. Drop by often; your input is priceless.

Academic,
Have fun at the 2nd look. I'm sure it will be an awesome experience. There'll probably even be more people out there since it's the 1st weekend. Take notes so you can debrief us after your trip :D -(j/k). Though certainly let us know how it went. Maybe we'll meet in the fall. Enjoy.
 
well it's pretty much over for me! i just got waitlisted at penn and in a way i'm excited because it looks like i can say that i'm headed for duke next year! (which i am very happy about).

so i'll see original and probably some others in durham next year. I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS WHOLE PROCESS IS OVER!!!!

good luck with all of your final choices!

--sarah
 
Sar520,

Sorry about the Penn. I was hoping you'll get in there, but I'm also glad we might be classmates. On the other hand, there's still a good chance that you'll get off their waitlist. I just got a fine much anticipated rejection from the Penn. Those rejection letters become precious after a first choice acceptance :D . Hope to see you in the fall.
 
Hi all,
Thanks for the words of welcome. As you can see I am still actively procrasting that thesis, but I'm doing so by communicating to others about the wonderful world of dual degrees - so it's ok, right? right? Somebody out there, support my bad habit :wink:

As far as being scared about going back to clinicals- I'll have to agree. It is just such a huge transition. My school doesn't currently have anything in place where you can do clinical rotations before or during the PhD year. (It actually is under review at the moment and will be changed for next year.) That sort of program would be a big help with the transition and is something I hope you guys are looking for. Overall though, I think I will be no more clueless then my counterparts. My PhD is in physiology, so at least I remember 1 basic science class well! It is such a different skill set that everyone is back at square one. At least this is what I tell myself. Although my cronies ahead a few years do agree. Those transitions though are what I think is the hardest part about the program. Socially and intellectually, they take time to adapt to.

By the way, Sarah (I think that's who it was!) I wanted Penn too back in the day, but for a silly reason. It's the only place I have ever been actually hooted and whistled at (while walking down the street in interview attire). I thought that would be a real ego-boost if it happened there everyday! :D
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Sonic Hedgehog:
•I called Sue Sansone at Yale this morning and she said that the decision-making has been delayed. They were supposed to have sent out the letters by Monday, but there were some scheduling problems with the committee and as a result, the letters won't go out until next monday. She also said that accepted students will receive emails.
•••••Thanks for the Yale update Sonic.. did Susan say whether you were accepted over the phone? With your acceptances everywhere it seems like she would've told you over teh phone to beg you to come to yale.. or at least give you obvious hints :D Seriously though, would you even consider yale when you have hopkins w full funding ?
 
Thanks, Chef -

Sue didn't officially tell me anything about my status. She just said the committee really liked me, and said "I know it's good news... so just relax". I'm hoping that that means I'm in. So I'm just going to wait around until I hear back officially from them. But I'm positive that I won't go to Yale over Hopkins. Oh well...
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Rumit:
•
On another note, does anyone know when UCSF and Stanford make their MSTP decisions? And, do they mail or call or what? I know it should be coming up soon. I'm pretty nervous about those two, since I think they're my two top choices.
•••••Hey RUMIT!

I think the UCSF committee is deciding on the 28th or 29th. As for Stanford, they told me it would be 4-6 weeks after my interview date (3/11) which is very very late!!! Hey, I totally understand how you feel because I'm very nervous about these two schools, too. Good luck =)

MapK
 
Hey EVERYONE!

I just got back from the conference in San Diego and it was really cool! The majority of the participants were MD/PhDs and they discussed cardiac/neuro research that really took things from the bench to bedside!

Anyhow, I thought some of you might be interested in what was discussed at the "physician-scientist roundtable".

it started with a keynote by leon rosenberg [former dean of yale and huge proponent of physician-scientists...in fact, we probably owe our funding to his efforts]. he gave a bunch of statistics about the decline of phy-sci: the percent of MDs doing research fell from 4% to 2% in the last 15 yrs, MDs or MD/PhDs once comprised of 43% of NIH investigators...now it is &lt;30%, less MDs in NIH review panels and huge drop in 1st time MD applicants for grants or seeking postdoc research at NIH.

there are essential two paths to becoming a phy-sci: [1] MSTP and [2] "late bloomer."

MSTP - decide on path EARLY in college life. applicant pool slowly increasing because of funding & high probability of success. usually graduate with little or no debt. only comprises 2.5% of all MD graduates but 30% of NIH MD PIs. usually focus on basic science topics. but not enough graduate to fill gap left by decreasing interest by MDs to pursue academic medicine.

"late bloomer" - decide on research path LATE, during med school/residency/fellowship. VARIABLE time/quality of research training. usually focus on CLINICAL/patient-based research. once accounted for all phy-scis and still accounts for most. less MDs seek this because of HIGH DEBT [avg grad debt is $99K, only 17% of MD grads do not have significant debt]. declining "breed" b/c college undergrads are usually steered towards med or grad schools, admission committees focus less on research, opportunities in research at med schools vary, MANAGED CARE makes it difficult to pursue research.

suggestions by leon [echoed by faseb rep, nih rep, mstp directors, biotech reps]: FUND MORE MSTP slots, set up more structured postdoc training for MDs, give LOAN REPAYMENT plans to MDs seeking research.

but: for now, nigms is NOT planning to expand funding for mstp in its budget! other institutes within nih are willing to fund phy-sci development programs but NIH POLITICS makes it impossible to funnel money from other institutes in mstp. so instead, other institutes [nci, nhlbi, etc] fund postdoc/new investigators with grants. some suggested having the nigms considered a "core grants" to med schools and allowing other institutes to give "supplemental grants" but this is essential transfering $$ from other institutes to nigms which is not kosher for nih politics.

another problem discussed: if the mstp is expanded, is the applicant pool BIG & TALENTED enough? the directors acknowledge that they are pretty much interviewing the same group of students and privacy laws prevent them from compiling SSN to get the actual number of MSTP applicants. instead, directors can compare total number of applications which are obviously redundant.

i don't know where this number came from but its believed that we need to graduate ~1500 physician-scientists each year to maintain the current number. right now ~450 MD/PhD graduate each year [40% are MSTP] and ~550 MD/PhD matriculate each year[50% MSTP]. is it possible to TRIPLE/QUADRUPLE the size of MSTP programs to fill the need [this is essentially giving up on "late bloomers"]? to attract more applicants, [a] need to provide more $$, shorten the overall track, and offer more [c] clinical type research training.

argument again giving up on "late bloomers:" lots of great ideas surface AFTER going through med school, "late bloomers" made up the biggest source of past phy-sci [83% of Nobel laureates have/had MD], MSTP is not graduating enough to fill need [especially since NIGMS is not expanding funding], not enough talent to fill MSTP slots even if it were expanded, "late bloomers" contribute more to translational medicine

[a] ideas for providing more funding: getting biotech support [since lots of MD/PhD end up running R&D at these pharm/biotech companies], getting non-profit support problem: these groups are interested in seeing "return" on their "investment" i.e. having MSTP grads focus on their non-profit organization's topic or dedicating time to the biotech company

how to shorten overall: MSTP directors have shortened the MSTP programs as much as they can to ~7 years [which is a difficult design to for students to follow anyway]. thus, need to look at SHORTENING the residency/fellowship tracks by cutting residency time? or CUTTING subspecialty training?

[c] expand applicant pool by expanding type of research training in MSTP? i.e. not just basic science but also clinical/patient-based research which requires rigorious research training of different sort [biostatics, epidemiology, informatics]. PROBLEM: this clinical-oriented research training would require students to be clinically trained or have their MD completed. this goes against the NIGMS structure of squeezing the PhD in between the MD program. MSTP directors believe that a different track or entirely different program should be set up for this.

Okay, so the roundtable talked about other stuff like having foreign MD/PhD fill need, residency choices by MD/PhDs [is RESIDENCY a must?], need for MENTORING MSTP grads by established MD/PhD investigators, getting $$ for PROTECTED RESEARCH TIME [a problem b/c hospital are under pressure by managed care to have doctors put more time in clinics]

Well, that's all I'm going to post for now...I hope you found some of this stuff interesting.

MapK
 
WOW MapK!!!!

You provided us with a lot of good info. I am glad to hear that people are actively and seriously considering issues regarding the future of physician scientists. In my opinion, physician scientists play a major role in making discoveries with important medical relevance. Yet, in today's society they are very under-appreciated. And that really needs to be changed if they want more people to become physician scientists.
 
Wow MapK,

Thanks for the info. Very interesting stuff. Twice the duration of training and then half the pay at the end certainly limits the attractiveness of the MD/PhD career path. I think increased involvement with the biotech industry might be a bit helpfull. The serious red-flag on that one though, is that any involvements of the corporate world in academia is traditionally viewed as anathema by the academic culture. But if one thinks about it, MD/PhDs in academic medicine are not purely academics but professionals as well. Any thoughts?
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Original:
•
Twice the duration of training and then half the pay at the end certainly limits the attractiveness of the MD/PhD career path...But if one thinks about it, MD/PhDs in academic medicine are not purely academics but professionals as well. Any thoughts?•••••Hey ORIGINAL-

The financial issue is definitely a major point. Although some of us may not be thinking so much about it now, after 6 or 7 years in the MSTP, we will start feeling underappreciated compared to our MD peers. With an MD/PhD, a student can make it into a competitive residency programs such as neurosurgery or opthamalogy even without honors grades or blazing boards scores.

So after the MSTP, students have a choice: continue the academic medicine route for another 5/6 years with residency/fellowship and start their young investigating career in the mid-30s at ~$150K [the cap set by NIH grants for salary allocation], or pursue a rigorous 6 year subspecialty that can start one off in the $250K+ salary range by the mid-30s [not to mention higher salary during the training years]. One of the MSTP directors showed data from his program that many students are pursuing such subspecialties instead of the traditional residency programs for MSTP [med, ped, path, neuro]. Some of the MSTP students that I met at the conference were entertaining such ideas.

As for the industry involvement and the role of MD/PhDs, I guess it can be viable. Since the ultimate goal of a physician-scientist is to take research from the bench to the bedside, the role of pharm/biotech is necessary. The industry is definitely where translational medicine is taking place and perhaps post-graduate training for MD/PhDs can involve a mixture of industrial/academic training. This can help the money issue since industry can afford to supplement salaries. For now, the MSTP students that I met seem to view industry as one of the fallbacks [the other being pure clinical career] if their research does not pan out.

MapK
 
Hey fellas -- how goes it? I was just curious...are there really any real drawbacks to non-MSTP MD/PhD progs? I've been accepted to a few MSTPs (NYU, Sinai and Case) as most of you know and the Mayo MD/PhD. For some reason, I think Mayo has a very strong program compared to some MSTPs that I've visited -- and contrary to some popular opinion the basic science areas are not "shallow" there either. Any thoughts or comments regarding choosing between programs (aside from the usual "go where you will be happy.")??? Well I guess the real question is, am I disadvantaging myself by not going to an MSTP?? I mean I liked the other schools too, but in the event that I was to choose Mayo I was just curious about the general consensus from my trusted colleagues. Thanks!
 
Hi, I'm new. I've been accepted at U Chicago, Penn, Case, and NYU. I'm still waiting on Yale and Stanford. Any comments/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
 
•••quote:•••Originally posted by Sonic Hedgehog:
•They were supposed to have sent out the letters by Monday, but there were some scheduling problems with the committee and as a result, the letters won't go out until next monday. She also said that accepted students will receive emails.
•••••Has anybody received acceptance email from Yale today? My mailbox got no love from Yale! hahaha :D
 
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