More trash from the NY Times

[turkeyjerky]

Sorry for the clickbait title

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[Brigade4Radiant]

It’s not garbage that’s how HCA does business.
They called out Samuel Haden for his salary donation making headlines when it was about 1% his salary.

These are money above all corporations it’s one of the few pieces on healthcare that Nytimes gets right.

 

[EctopicFetus]

I have no issue with this. this is our system. thats a fact. if you dont like it change the system.

 

[Perrotfish]

Sorry for the clickbait title

In capitalism , when for profits can't make budget they are supposed to either take out loans or, alternatively, sell some of the stuff that they own. Either would have been a great option to keep these giant healthcare corporations from shutting their doors. The job of the government is to promote the stability of essential industries by making sure they have a lender (like with the auto industry bailouts, which were all loans) or a buyer (for example they could have bought several hospitals from each group and given them to public medical schools). Its insane that the government took out loans in our names and gave them to publicly traded corporations with no expectation of repayment.

 

[Birdstrike]

I have no issue with this. this is our system. thats a fact. if you dont like it change the system.

The one thing about the CARES Act/PPP and associated legislation, is that for better or worse, it was one of the rare things that happened in the last 4 years that was overwhelmingly bipartisan, supported by Republicans, Democrats and the President and which passed very easily with little if any opposition. That's not a verdict on its merrit, but it was notable for that reason.

 

[GeneralVeers]

In capitalism , when for profits can't make budget they are supposed to either take out loans or, alternatively, sell some of the stuff that they own. Either would have been a great option to keep these giant healthcare corporations from shutting their doors. The job of the government is to promote the stability of essential industries by making sure they have a lender (like with the auto industry bailouts, which were all loans) or a buyer (for example they could have bought several hospitals from each group and given them to public medical schools). Its insane that the government took out loans in our names and gave them to publicly traded corporations with no expectation of repayment.

It's crazy. We don't agree on a lot but we can agree on this. Why did we bail out cruise ship companies?

 

[Perrotfish]

It's crazy. We don't agree on a lot but we can agree on this. Why did we bail out cruise ship companies?

My understanding is that the cruise companies at least got loans. Private equity healthcare got gifts.

 

[RustedFox]

My understanding is that the cruise companies at least got loans. Private equity healthcare got gifts.

You're right.
We need someone to be a steward of responsible healthcare. It's sure not the federal government, or the HCAs of the nation.

 

[thegenius]

I have no issue with this. this is our system. thats a fact. if you dont like it change the system.

Why don't you have any problem with this.
Why do you feel it's OK that people with tons of money just get more money
and people with little money get LESS money or get laid off.

 

[thegenius]

Why don't you have any problem with this.
Why do you feel it's OK that people with tons of money just get more money
and people with little money get LESS money or get laid off.

What we need for the problems with massive wealth inequity in this country is something equivalent to a bunch of black people dying by white police. Then maybe something will change in that department. There is literally no reason why a handful of people should have trillions of dollars.

 

[RustedFox]

What we need for the problems with massive wealth inequity in this country is something equivalent to a bunch of black people dying by white police. Then maybe something will change in that department. There is literally no reason why a handful of people should have trillions of dollars.

???

 

[turkeyjerky]

It’s not garbage that’s how HCA does business.
They called out Samuel Haden for his salary donation making headlines when it was about 1% his salary.

These are money above all corporations it’s one of the few pieces on healthcare that Nytimes gets right.

Yeah, the title was meant as a tongue in cheek reference to the general tilt of this sub.

I find the behavior of these companies to be despicable. It's not anything personal, either, I recognize that this is the system as we have allowed it to evolve. The problem is the underlying assumption that capitalism and healthcare are compatable. We need to get the profit motive out of healthcare, period. (This extends to corporate or other institutional profits, not, however, personal income in the form of doctors' and other professionals' salaries)

 

[RustedFox]

Yeah, the title was meant as a tongue in cheek reference to the general tilt of this sub.

I find the behavior of these companies to be despicable. It's not anything personal, either, I recognize that this is the system as we have allowed it to evolve. The problem is the underlying assumption that capitalism and healthcare are compatable. We need to get the profit motive out of healthcare, period. (This extends to corporate or other institutional profits, not, however, personal income in the form of doctors' and other professionals' salaries)

It really just comes down to this:

"Just do the right thing."

Buy enough PPE for your employees.

Don't create medicine "standards" not supported by science and threaten docs with termination if they disagree.

Put the patient's safety and health first.

Don't parlay meaningless metrics into corporate bonuses.

Staff appropriately.


Simple things like this. A sixth grader could tell you what is "right" and "wrong" in most if not all of these situations.

 

[turkeyjerky]

The problem is that we've conflated "right and wrong" with "fiduciary duty to stockholders"

 

[Apollyon]

Remember - business is sociopathic. What does a sociopath feel? Nothing. It's all...business.

 

[Vandalia]

It's crazy. We don't agree on a lot but we can agree on this. Why did we bail out cruise ship companies?

Actually, unless something has changed very recently, they weren't.

President Trump on March 27 signed into law the $2 trillion stimulus package designed to save millions of jobs and bail out companies devastated by the coronavirus. But when the dust settled, one hard-hit sector of the travel industry was left on the sidelines: the major cruise lines.

Cruise Lines Were Shut Out of the Stimulus. Here’s Why. (Published 2020)

The hard-hit sector of the travel industry was left out of the $2 trillion stimulus package. Century-old tax provisions help explain what happened.

www.nytimes.com

It was proposed, but it got so much backlash it never went anywhere. I heard Florida is trying to do something but I don't think they have the financial muscle.

I heard one cruise ship exec try to explain away the fact that they were all flagged in foreign countries, "Well, that is what you get if you make U.S. regulations so onerous." Like they were doing us a favor if they got bailout money.

There was an article recently about Carnival benefiting from government action, but it was the injection of capital into the financial markets that allowed them to borrow money at a reduced interest rate. Not a government bailout; a second or third order effect.

 

[namethatsmell]

The problem is that we've conflated "right and wrong" with "fiduciary duty to stockholders"

This. This right here.

If you eliminated the ability for CMGs, insurance companies, and hospitals to be publicly traded/for-profit you would solve a large proportion of the most disgusting problems in our system. Then all you'd need to do is repeal much of the stark laws...and you'd have quite a stew going...

 

[EctopicFetus]

The one thing about the CARES Act/PPP and associated legislation, is that for better or worse, it was one of the rare things that happened in the last 4 years that was overwhelmingly bipartisan, supported by Republicans, Democrats and the President and which passed very easily with little if any opposition. That's not a verdict on its merrit, but it was notable for that reason.

Was rushed poorly thought out and full of pork. Standard government bloat.

 

[Birdstrike]

full of pork.

$Trillions of it

 

[thegenius]

$Trillions of it

Is it good pork though? Smoked with proper rub for 15 hours?

If so the pork might be worth it.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Why don't you have any problem with this.
Why do you feel it's OK that people with tons of money just get more money
and people with little money get LESS money or get laid off.

Lets be honest businesses employ people. They go out of business and those employees have no work. Its the reality. Businesses exist to enrich their owners. This is basic economics. Businesses do not exist to enrich their workers. Businesses have all with minor exception gotten hammered. Profits slashed.

People with "little money" got less money just like the rich did. The "little money" people got unemployment on steroids (not my term). I run a small business and now others who do as well. Some employees are super pissed about not getting fired cause they would make more money doing nothing cause unemployment was so fat.

Coronavirus Relief Often Pays Workers More Than Work

Roughly half of all U.S. workers stand to earn more in unemployment benefits than they did at their jobs before the coronavirus pandemic shut down wide swaths of the U.S. economy, a result of government relief that employers say is complicating plans to reopen businesses.

www.wsj.com

Oh and the "little money" people got one time chunks of cash from the government and I didnt. I am ok with all that. This is the system we work and live in.

The "more money" people pay a huge portion of our federal taxes. I believe the top 1% paid 40% of federal income tax.

Coronavirus Relief Often Pays Workers More Than Work

Roughly half of all U.S. workers stand to earn more in unemployment benefits than they did at their jobs before the coronavirus pandemic shut down wide swaths of the U.S. economy, a result of government relief that employers say is complicating plans to reopen businesses.

www.wsj.com

The rich feeding the rich is politics personified. Shouldnt be shocked or surprised. Do you know where politicians go when they are done? To become lobbyists. Do you wonder how Bernie and the Clintons and a slew of others got rich being career politicians? I am sure there are republicans that did the same.

Its not because they are all so cool and awesome. Its pay for play.

 

[Birdstrike]

Is it good pork though? Smoked with proper rub for 15 hours?

If so the pork might be worth it.

Rare time docs got some, too. Yum

 

[thegenius]

Rare time docs got some, too. Yum

HA!

Yes it's delicious pork you can smell it from 10 miles away.

But it's NOT for you.

It's for the guy up the street who has a 5M home, private tennis courts, 4 cars, two mistresses, and enough money that he wipes his ass with Benjamins.

He leaves you the scraps though.

 

[Apollyon]

He leaves you the scraps though.

The burnt ends? Yes, sir!

 

[Birdstrike]

It's for the guy up the street who has a 5M home, private tennis courts, 4 cars, two mistresses, and enough money that he wipes his ass with Benjamins.

How do you get this job?

 

[GeneralVeers]

How do you get this job?

Lawyer or politician, but the key is to be as corrupt as possible.