Feeling conflicted about podiatry

[aiikookie]

I posted a thread last month about applying to dentistry and getting referred to podiatry at AZCPM. I ended up getting accepted at AZCPM and was thrilled about this opportunity after shadowing a podiatrist and learning more about it. I feel like it is a career I will enjoy as I decided to work as an assistant at a podiatry clinic to gain more exposure before I start school in fall of 2023. However, after scrolling through this forum, I can not find a single positive thing being said about podiatry and this is really discouraging, as literally everyone suggests to just apply DO. I feel like it will definitely be harder for me as I am a non-american citizen, so finding jobs in the states will be much harder. I am from Canada, and in Canada, in some provinces podiatrists are not even considered doctors. I am not sure what to do at this point. Is it possible to even defer my acceptance to fall 2024? I am still researching more and planning to learn more first-hand from the podiatrist I'll shadow. They're a couple and the husband does surgeries at a hospital in the states 2 days a week and other days works in their private practice. He used to be the president of Ontario podiatry association so maybe he could help me land jobs in the future. My biggest concern is the job market and the ROI.

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[PTPuser]

My biggest concern is the job market and the ROI.

Yeah this part.

 

[Feli]

I would keep shadowing... the picture might clear up. It's ultimately your decision.

Shadow as many different DPMs or DDS or whatever you're considering. You want to see various situations.
Try to visit any local DPM residency programs or find docs on FootHealthFacts.org and Abfas.org if you are interested in the surgical aspect.
You only need to spend a week or less at each... could spend another week with ones you enjoy (or get "busy" very fast after visiting some offices you're not enamored with and not get around to getting back for any more shadow days).

There are biiiig differences in the training and competency and practice patterns among DPMs (I say this as I'm watching top educational surgical conf vids today... some really competent and intelligent docs and others do pretty questionable work). Similarly, some are likable/personable and others not so much. Sometimes you learn what to do... other times you figure out what traits you want to avoid. It should serve you no matter what decisions you ultimately make.

 

[air bud]

Yeah this part.

Canada doesn't help

 

[heybrother]

You've already seen the "positive". You already know there are smiley encounters and hopefully in general people getting better.

What you don't know is the dollars and cents. Those happy moments are worth substantially less every day unless you do them under the umbrella of a hospital. The price of this degree keeps climbing but insurance will continue to decrease what they pay us.

I have great encounters with patients. I think I do really good stuff. But its not worth anything most of the time.

Your story is just all red flags. Dentistry is infinitely more in demand. And the Canada thing will bite you unless you play it perfectly or set different expectations. There's a story on here of a guy who was accepted to a residency and then they dropped him because he was from Canada and they made no plans to get him a visa. I'm summarizing, but it was as bizarre as that. He'd already leased an apartment and everything.

Any medical profession can have positive moments. Theirs are just worth more than ours.

 

[icebreaker32]

Podiatry has enough hurdles. If being from Canada makes it potentially even harder, I would say avoid podiatry school and be an RN or PA if you can not get into dental or DO school.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Someone who applied to our fellowship for next year is from Canada

He’s currently a PGY3 and got this figured out. If you want, send me a PM and I’ll connect you.

 

[Prehealth1011]

Are podiatry residencies visa friendly? How limited will your residency options be

I’m assuming all VA residencies are out

There’s a Canadian poster that posted here recently who had a terrible time with visa issues. Search back. I wanna say in 2021

These are all things to consider

 

[heybrother]

What are my options?

I am currently an incoming PGY1, and an international student from Canada. I was told that my program would sponsor my J1 visa, however during the process, I was told that the ECFMG does not sponsor Podiatrists for the J1. The program is not willing to work with me to help me figure this out...

forums.studentdoctor.net

@plant based - your past experience is being discussed.

 

[Podiatrymed255]

I posted a thread last month about applying to dentistry and getting referred to podiatry at AZCPM. I ended up getting accepted at AZCPM and was thrilled about this opportunity after shadowing a podiatrist and learning more about it. I feel like it is a career I will enjoy as I decided to work as an assistant at a podiatry clinic to gain more exposure before I start school in fall of 2023. However, after scrolling through this forum, I can not find a single positive thing being said about podiatry and this is really discouraging, as literally everyone suggests to just apply DO. I feel like it will definitely be harder for me as I am a non-american citizen, so finding jobs in the states will be much harder. I am from Canada, and in Canada, in some provinces podiatrists are not even considered doctors. I am not sure what to do at this point. Is it possible to even defer my acceptance to fall 2024? I am still researching more and planning to learn more first-hand from the podiatrist I'll shadow. They're a couple and the husband does surgeries at a hospital in the states 2 days a week and other days works in their private practice. He used to be the president of Ontario podiatry association so maybe he could help me land jobs in the future. My biggest concern is the job market and the ROI.

I am not sure about the Visa, but as a 2nd year who was previously a DO applicant, I can say that not once have I ever questioned my decision to be here. I love what I’m learning. All my fellow classmates are excited for their futures as well. Our faculty is extremely passionate and they have always been willing to go above and beyond for any student who reaches out. Every DPM I have personally shadowed or spoken to has had nothing but positivity and love for their profession. What drove me to Podiatry in the first place was the fact that every DPM I shadowed loved their job. I had many DO’s/MD’s + residents tell me to not pursue medicine and that they were unhappy. Take what you see here on SDN with a grain of salt. I am sure you will be successful at whatever you set your heart to & please don’t hesitate to pursue students at schools your interested in

 

[CaptainCool]

I am not sure about the Visa, but as a 2nd year who was previously a DO applicant, I can say that not once have I ever questioned my decision to be here. I love what I’m learning. All my fellow classmates are excited for their futures as well. Our faculty is extremely passionate and they have always been willing to go above and beyond for any student who reaches out. Every DPM I have personally shadowed or spoken to has had nothing but positivity and love for their profession. What drove me to Podiatry in the first place was the fact that every DPM I shadowed loved their job. I had many DO’s/MD’s + residents tell me to not pursue medicine and that they were unhappy. Take what you see here on SDN with a grain of salt. I am sure you will be successful at whatever you set your heart to & please don’t hesitate to pursue students at schools your interested in

Definitely don’t take what you see here as a grain of salt, especially when the person telling you that is a second year student. Visit the attending page and see what it’s like in the real world, and if more schools equal more students it’s only going to get worse. Check out the pharmacy forums to see what supply and demand can do to a profession

 

[iridocyclitiss]

I think the biggest thing is just knowing what you're getting into. SDN for sure seem like a doom-and-gloom chamber. If you go into podiatry be smart about your investment. Take out as little loan as possible, apply for scholarships. Don't go to a place with a high COL (New York, California, Philly). All the schools get you a similar education, so your primary goal should be going somewhere with a low COL. Go to Texas, go to DMU. Texas has an inherent advantage due to the cheap tuition (10k a semester compared to 58k at Samuel Merritt as the first year). Demand for students in pod school is at an all-time high, and supply is low. Use that to your advantage and try and go to Texas.

 

[Pronation]

I think the biggest thing is just knowing what you're getting into. SDN for sure seem like a doom-and-gloom chamber. If you go into podiatry be smart about your investment. Take out as little loan as possible, apply for scholarships. Don't go to a place with a high COL (New York, California, Philly). All the schools get you a similar education, so your primary goal should be going somewhere with a low COL. Go to Texas, go to DMU. Texas has an inherent advantage due to the cheap tuition (10k a semester compared to 58k at Samuel Merritt as the first year). Demand for students in pod school is at an all-time high, and supply is low. Use that to your advantage and try and go to Texas.

Demand is high? Please expand on this.

 

[icebreaker32]

I think the biggest thing is just knowing what you're getting into. SDN for sure seem like a doom-and-gloom chamber. If you go into podiatry be smart about your investment. Take out as little loan as possible, apply for scholarships. Don't go to a place with a high COL (New York, California, Philly). All the schools get you a similar education, so your primary goal should be going somewhere with a low COL. Go to Texas, go to DMU. Texas has an inherent advantage due to the cheap tuition (10k a semester compared to 58k at Samuel Merritt as the first year). Demand for students in pod school is at an all-time high, and supply is low. Use that to your advantage and try and go to Texas.

Texas mainly takes in state residents . Better be a stellar student or fill some other box they want to check if not from Texas.

I know it is not the school, but the strange thing is the UTSA residency had residents from not only other states, but more countries than about other I can remember when Harkless was in charge. Now they suddenly seem to be pro Texas. Not that it mattered, few wanted that residency when I was in school. To be fair enough were interested that they did have to fill by scramble that I remember.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

Demand is high? Please expand on this.

With student enrollment this year being so low the demand for students is high. You could apply to any school and get accepted. Might as well try your luck getting the cheapest tuition possible. That being said, I still think you should figure out what went wrong with dentistry and give it one more honest try before scrapping it all for podiatry.

 

[icebreaker32]

With student enrollment this year being so low the demand for students is high. You could apply to any school and get accepted. Might as well try your luck getting the cheapest tuition possible. That being said, I still think you should figure out what went wrong with dentistry and give it one more honest try before scrapping it all for podiatry.

This will sound strange. When I was in podiatry school, the students that were not doing well joked they might get kicked out and have to go to dental school. That did not last long at all. By the time we graduated podiatry school it was no harder to get into than chiropractor school at about any of the schools.

Podiatry school can actually occasionally be mildly competitive from time to time at whatever the most desirable couple of schools are at the time.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

This will sound strange. When I was in podiatry school, the students that were not doing well joked they might get kicked out and have to go to dental school. That did not last long at all. By the time we graduated podiatry school it was no harder to get into than chiropractor school.

Podiatry school can actually occasionally be mildly competitive from time to time at whatever the most desirable couple of schools are at the time.

Who knows maybe if I don't match into the program I want I'll dip and try dentistry too!

 

[Pronation]

With student enrollment this year being so low the demand for students is high. You could apply to any school and get accepted. Might as well try your luck getting the cheapest tuition possible. That being said, I still think you should figure out what went wrong with dentistry and give it one more honest try before scrapping it all for podiatry.

Oh you meant the demand from the desperate administration at the schools, not the actual demand for podiatrists based of patient needs.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

Oh you meant the demand from the desperate administration at the schools, not the actual demand for podiatrists based of patient needs.

I don't disagree about the demand for actual podiatrists, just wanting to share my experience on what has helped me survive. Realistically we can't stop every student from applying but we can try to educate them on what they're getting into.

 

[icebreaker32]

The irony is lower enrollments make the administration and leaders freak out, but it also makes the profession much better for future podiatrists. We really have nothing to gain by less going into the filed. The administration obviously has something to lose by less going into podiatry. People blame us, but I doubt we have much of an influence on enrollment.

Podiatry enrollment dips occasionally and the leaders always freak out, blame people and ask for some to start promoting the profession. I have seen this exact scenario play out before. No way to know if this dip will last longer than usual.

 

[heybrother]

I am not sure about the Visa, but as a 2nd year who was previously a DO applicant, I can say that not once have I ever questioned my decision to be here. I love what I’m learning. All my fellow classmates are excited for their futures as well. Our faculty is extremely passionate and they have always been willing to go above and beyond for any student who reaches out. Every DPM I have personally shadowed or spoken to has had nothing but positivity and love for their profession. What drove me to Podiatry in the first place was the fact that every DPM I shadowed loved their job. I had many DO’s/MD’s + residents tell me to not pursue medicine and that they were unhappy. Take what you see here on SDN with a grain of salt. I am sure you will be successful at whatever you set your heart to & please don’t hesitate to pursue students at schools your interested in

I found a lot of enjoyment during my first 2 years at DMU even during the butt kickings. Its interesting - with the exception of Dr. Bennett and Dr. Smith there's been near complete turn-over of the staff. Hopefully the new people are great.

 

[Podiatrymed255]

I found a lot of enjoyment during my first 2 years at DMU even during the butt kickings. Its interesting - with the exception of Dr. Bennett and Dr. Smith there's been near complete turn-over of the staff. Hopefully the new people are great.

I really love our professors. They have all been more than willing to listen to the feedback from students and it’s apparent they work really hard to see their students succeed!

 

[dpmcanuck]

I'm a DPM in USA from canada. If you decide to do this, you will have a challenging road ahead. Podiatry is a great profession if you can actually practice it. As a Canadian, this will not be easy unless you stay in the US after.

Podiatry in Canada is antiquated. Would not recommend formal USA surgical training if the intention is to go back home. The scope is severely restricted especially Ontario. You may as well go to Chiropody school to learn how to trim calluses and toenails because if you receive Harvard-level DPM training in the USA and are shoving nails in tibias, fixing ankles, etc...all you will be doing is trimming nails in Canada.

It's a lot of training to never use if the intention is to go back. You will be better trained than the local foot and ankle orthopod but wont ever be able to practice to the same extent.

I'm not really sure how things have changed for residency now just under a decade out from graduating. Immigration is tough. The hospital needs to sponsor you for years 2-3 (the first year is covered on your OPT/student visa).

I was at a non-profit hospital that awarded me a H1B visa but this is NOT transferable after graduation to a PP job/hospital. Need to start from scratch for immigration and as I'm sure you've seen from the descriptions on this website, most PP owners (I believe some will refer to these docs as the moustache DPMs), the offers are cheap to begin with, so do you think they will take on the additional expense to get you a visa?

My wife and I got married early. We're still together and have lots of kids now. It was honestly the only way to stay in the USA and get a job...

I'd be happy to discuss this more on the phone if you'd like? Just PM me if interested...

 

[Prehealth1011]

Consider DO (i know I know here I go again)

Even though you'll need a visa, you won't have trouble getting residency

Source: went to a DO school with a sht ton of Canadians. No one had trouble getting invites or matching non-primary care specialties

 

[BeePod]

I posted a thread last month about applying to dentistry and getting referred to podiatry at AZCPM. I ended up getting accepted at AZCPM and was thrilled about this opportunity after shadowing a podiatrist and learning more about it. I feel like it is a career I will enjoy as I decided to work as an assistant at a podiatry clinic to gain more exposure before I start school in fall of 2023. However, after scrolling through this forum, I can not find a single positive thing being said about podiatry and this is really discouraging, as literally everyone suggests to just apply DO. I feel like it will definitely be harder for me as I am a non-american citizen, so finding jobs in the states will be much harder. I am from Canada, and in Canada, in some provinces podiatrists are not even considered doctors. I am not sure what to do at this point. Is it possible to even defer my acceptance to fall 2024? I am still researching more and planning to learn more first-hand from the podiatrist I'll shadow. They're a couple and the husband does surgeries at a hospital in the states 2 days a week and other days works in their private practice. He used to be the president of Ontario podiatry association so maybe he could help me land jobs in the future. My biggest concern is the job market and the ROI.

Hi aiikookie, I am a current second year Podiatry Student at WesternU. I can talk to you about my current experience as a podiatry student. You mentioned that podiatrists are not considered "doctors" well the reason for that is our training has evolved throughout the years and podiatrists are currently fighting for parity as the MDs and DOs. We are not considered doctors in the sense of the word only because our current board exams are not considered comparable to the USMLE or COMLEX, so until there is a board examination that is equivalent there will be that barrier of not being considered a physician. This does not mean we aren't real doctors, we are, our degree is a DPM Doctor of Podiatric Medicine. We are trained in medicine and surgery the moment we start Podiatry school which is Medical school. At WesternU we take all the same classes as the DOs, and by this I mean DO students and Podiatry students are both learning together in the same room. Our only difference is that DOs take Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine classes and we take our Podiatry specific classes which consists of surgical procedures, radiology, and Lower Extremity anatomy. As for finding a job, did you know there is currently more residencies available than there are Podiatry graduates to fill them. In comparison to our MD and DO colleagues where they both have to fight for a residency spot each year and many which are left not matching. If you don't match you cannot practice, so now you are left with your loan debt and no job to start paying them off. When it comes to what podiatrists can do this does differ state to state. This is where I suggest you do your own research as to where you would like to practice and check out the scope of practice at that state. Some states have a scope of practice ranging from just forefoot to up to the tibial tuberosity and can include hand surgery (Minnesota does this). I hope this is of some help. If you would like to know more about the field or my experience, I am more than happy to answer any further questions you may have.

 

[icebreaker32]

Not true....you are seriously misinformed. MDs have enough residencies that they are filled not only by US MDs, but also by DO students, foreign medical students and Caribbean medical students.

Yes there are currently enough podiatry residencies for all as there should be. No one else fills these residencies other than US podiatry students. Unlike in the past you also can not practice without completing a residency. There are still not enough quality residencies. There has been a residency shortage more than once over the past couple of decades.

Yes the scope has increased. Most states you can do ankles now. Not that long ago podiatry could technically not even amputate a toe in some states.

Sure you might not match if you are an average MD student if you only rank Derm residencies. No way a US MD does not match to family medicine, pediatrics or psych. If you are an average podiatry student and only rank the top handful of podiatry residencies, you also will likely not match.

Unfortunately just be because one obtains a podiatry residency does not mean they will find a good job.

 

[call1800doctorb]

Hi aiikookie, I am a current second year Podiatry Student at WesternU. I can talk to you about my current experience as a podiatry student. You mentioned that podiatrists are not considered "doctors" well the reason for that is our training has evolved throughout the years and podiatrists are currently fighting for parity as the MDs and DOs. We are not considered doctors in the sense of the word only because our current board exams are not considered comparable to the USMLE or COMLEX, so until there is a board examination that is equivalent there will be that barrier of not being considered a physician. This does not mean we aren't real doctors, we are, our degree is a DPM Doctor of Podiatric Medicine. We are trained in medicine and surgery the moment we start Podiatry school which is Medical school. At WesternU we take all the same classes as the DOs, and by this I mean DO students and Podiatry students are both learning together in the same room. Our only difference is that DOs take Osteopathic Manipulative Medicine classes and we take our Podiatry specific classes which consists of surgical procedures, radiology, and Lower Extremity anatomy. As for finding a job, did you know there is currently more residencies available than there are Podiatry graduates to fill them. In comparison to our MD and DO colleagues where they both have to fight for a residency spot each year and many which are left not matching. If you don't match you cannot practice, so now you are left with your loan debt and no job to start paying them off. When it comes to what podiatrists can do this does differ state to state. This is where I suggest you do your own research as to where you would like to practice and check out the scope of practice at that state. Some states have a scope of practice ranging from just forefoot to up to the tibial tuberosity and can include hand surgery (Minnesota does this). I hope this is of some help. If you would like to know more about the field or my experience, I am more than happy to answer any further questions you may have.

So what if you take the same classes? Upon graduating the medical students get a DO and you get a DPM. You will have limited scope of practice. Real medical school means you will eventually have an unrestricted license to practice medicine.

 

[PTPuser]

Some states have a scope of practice ranging from just forefoot to up to the tibial tuberosity and can include hand surgery (Minnesota does this).

Anyone who is getting "hand surgery" from Podiatry, needs Jesus.

And if there's any prospective student who thinks you'll be doing hand surgery procedure to the level of plastic and ortho, you need to do research and Jesus too.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

Anyone who is getting "hand surgery" from Podiatry, needs Jesus.

And if there's any prospective student who thinks you'll be doing hand surgery procedure to the level of plastic and ortho, you need to do research and Jesus too.

I've seen pods do minor clinic procedures on the hands, like for warts and stuff. That's likely the extent of the scope. Maybe some dino pod is doing carpal tunnel releases somewhere

During one of my midwest rotations, the pods did quite a lot of work distal to the tibial tuberosity in terms of surgery (lacs and fractures).

Northeast you do toes and the foot pus. big brother ortho takes everything else

we are the only specialty where you can get very different training based on your geography and ortho relationship.

 

[Prehealth1011]

As for finding a job, did you know there is currently more residencies available than there are Podiatry graduates to fill them. In comparison to our MD and DO colleagues where they both have to fight for a residency spot each year and many which are left not matching. If you don't match you cannot practice, so now you are left with your loan debt and no job to start paying them off.

We fight for the residency we want, not a residency. People sometimes don't match because they didn't have a strong enough app for the specialty they're targetting. But to match something isn't hard at all. There are tons of FM/IM/Path programs you can match into as long as you have a pulse.

I’m a DO. It never crossed my mind that I won’t match. Me and my classmates never went to class and never worried about GPAs. I know people that did nothing in med school, failed board exam x1, and matched fine. Their intention from the get-go was to do a short residency, make around 250k, and call it a day

Sure it's devastating if you don't match. Would you rather be an unmatched MD/DO or an unmatched DPM? You decide

 

[heybrother]

We fight for the residency we want, not a residency. People sometimes don't match because they didn't have a strong enough app for the specialty they're targetting. But to match something isn't hard at all. There are tons of FM/IM/Path programs you can match into as long as you have a pulse.

I’m a DO. It never crossed my mind that I won’t match. Me and my classmates never went to class and never worried about GPAs. I know people that did nothing in med school, failed board exam x1, and matched fine. Their intention from the get-go was to do a short residency, make around 250k, and call it a day

Sure it's devastating if you don't match. Would you rather be an unmatched MD/DO or an unmatched DPM? You decide

If you see someone in podiatry describing the MD/DO match process/statistics/numbers etc and the "podiatry-person" is in some way desperate to believe that podiatry is "not that bad" then whatever they post about your match will be wrong, always.

 

[Bored Snorlax]

I posted a thread last month about applying to dentistry and getting referred to podiatry at AZCPM. I ended up getting accepted at AZCPM and was thrilled about this opportunity after shadowing a podiatrist and learning more about it. I feel like it is a career I will enjoy as I decided to work as an assistant at a podiatry clinic to gain more exposure before I start school in fall of 2023. However, after scrolling through this forum, I can not find a single positive thing being said about podiatry and this is really discouraging, as literally everyone suggests to just apply DO. I feel like it will definitely be harder for me as I am a non-american citizen, so finding jobs in the states will be much harder. I am from Canada, and in Canada, in some provinces podiatrists are not even considered doctors. I am not sure what to do at this point. Is it possible to even defer my acceptance to fall 2024? I am still researching more and planning to learn more first-hand from the podiatrist I'll shadow. They're a couple and the husband does surgeries at a hospital in the states 2 days a week and other days works in their private practice. He used to be the president of Ontario podiatry association so maybe he could help me land jobs in the future. My biggest concern is the job market and the ROI.

Congrats on your acceptance!

1. "Is it possible to even defer my acceptance to fall 2024?"

- If you still have some doubts it wouldn't hurt to call the school and ask. The schools I was accepted at gave me a deadline to make a decision and pay a deposit, but there is always special exception.

2. "My biggest concern is the job market and the ROI."

- Most research has indicated a growth projection in the podiatric market largely due to rising geriatrics population (baby boomers!), diabetics, foot injuries, overall global population, etc.
- In terms of ROI and compensation, podiatric physicians should be compensated better. We undergo 4 yrs of school + 3yrs residency training, share similar rigorous basic sciences curriculum as MD/DO, and receive specialized training in LEA diagnosis, treatment/management, and surgery that require extensive dedication and hard work. The field is constantly evolving and we're in the middle of an exciting transitional period. If we continue to improve our standards and patient outcomes, anything is possible.

3. "However, after scrolling through this forum, I can not find a single positive thing being said about podiatry and this is really discouraging, as literally everyone suggests to just apply DO"

- SDN is a valuable resource, but it does not encompass the opinions of the collective podiatric field.

This is an excellent thread that highlights the pros and cons of podiatry:

Considering Podiatry - Pro and Con List - Is It Reasonable and Realistic?

I am considering podiatry and am trying to do my research before choosing a lifelong career. I am planning to forego applying to MD/DO next cycle to apply DPM. I am having second thoughts given the SDN podiatry forum and the amount of posts discussing if podiatry has a reasonable ROI. I made...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Pros of podiatry:

1. You know from day 1 you will specialize in the lower lower extremities, but you also study and master the entire human body system.
- with the DO route many people do not get their first choice of specialty, but with podiatry everyone will be doing Podiatric Medicine/Surgery.
- If you are set on lower extremity medical care and surgery, this is the field for you!

2. Your class size will likely be small, and you will know everyone. There is a lot of collaboration, and you will make a lot of meaningful friendship if you so inclined. In addition, you will have more opportunities for leadership positions, research, access to professors, etc.

3. Most schools share similar/same basic sciences curriculum with MD/DO students, so you will get a standardized education during pre-clinical years. For example, at Temple Podiatry we share the same professors as our sister MD and Dental schools, and they enforce the same standards for everyone. AZCPM is an excellent school that has similar medical basic sciences curriculum and integrative structure, and many other podiatric schools as well. You are in good hands with any podiatric school.

4. U.S. DO seniors match rate was 91.3% compared to podiatry which had 98-100% residency match rate across all the schools.
Source: NRMP releases the 2022 Main Residency Match Results and Data publication, the most comprehensive data resource for the Main Residency Match®

Cons of podiatry:

1. Admittedly, you will not get as much respect as MD/DO, but I always remind myself of this question:

What makes a good physician- is it the title or the impact you make on the lives of your patients?

- As the public becomes more aware of podiatry and the field continues to expand, I am confident podiatry will receive the recognition, respect, and compensation it deserves.

2. We need better standardization across all podiatric schools and residencies to increase the confidence of the public. All pod schools should have better APMLE performance and board certifications should be modernized to ensure that competent podiatric physicians will receive the best resources to meet those high standards and qualifications.

3. There is a disorganized leadership structure in the pod world, but I'm optimistic the pod leaders will unite at some point and do what is best for the profession and future generation.

In conclusion, podiatry is an evolving field and there is a lot of room for improvements, but also opportunities and growth. Both DPM and DO routes are excellent career choices and will provide you with a fulfilling life of service to others. I wish you the best with your decision!

Happy New Year!

 

[Prehealth1011]

4. This is the most important point I want to emphasize because of your specific situation as a non-american IMG:
In 2021, the national match rate for non-US citizen IMGs obtained was 58.1% percent match rate, compared to podiatry which had 98-100% residency match rate across all the schools!
Source: NRMP releases the 2022 Main Residency Match Results and Data publication, the most comprehensive data resource for the Main Residency Match®

Does not apply to him/her

 

[aiikookie]

Can unmatched podiatrists apply for the match again the following year? Many here say that some podiatrists go unmatched and end up wasting 4 years of their life and $250K+ after being unmatched which makes me think that it is a once in a lifetime opportunity, you either match the first time or you give up podiatry. MD/DOs can do SOAP or internships I think to increase their chances of match, is this the same for podiatry?

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Does not apply to him/her

Thanks for pointing that out, I was in the process of editing it. Great observation. I was unable to locate his/her specific category, but the closest I could find was: "U.S. DO seniors was 91.3 percent" so I substituted that instead.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Can unmatched podiatrists apply for the match again the following year?

Yes. People in the past have gone through the match a few times to match. However, since 2017, the placement has been close to 100%. You can look at the data from aacpm site.

 

[icebreaker32]

We fight for the residency we want, not a residency. People sometimes don't match because they didn't have a strong enough app for the specialty they're targetting. But to match something isn't hard at all. There are tons of FM/IM/Path programs you can match into as long as you have a pulse.

I’m a DO. It never crossed my mind that I won’t match. Me and my classmates never went to class and never worried about GPAs. I know people that did nothing in med school, failed board exam x1, and matched fine. Their intention from the get-go was to do a short residency, make around 250k, and call it a day

Sure it's devastating if you don't match. Would you rather be an unmatched MD/DO or an unmatched DPM? You decide

Truth

It is OK to be positive, but some are in a state of denial about podiatry versus other professions and our job market

One can also find not only a residency but an organizational job with a pulse in many of the easier residencies to obtain.

Better to know on the front end things are just a bit different for podiatry

 

[Bored Snorlax]

We fight for the residency we want, not a residency. People sometimes don't match because they didn't have a strong enough app for the specialty they're targetting. But to match something isn't hard at all. There are tons of FM/IM/Path programs you can match into as long as you have a pulse.

I’m a DO. It never crossed my mind that I won’t match. Me and my classmates never went to class and never worried about GPAs. I know people that did nothing in med school, failed board exam x1, and matched fine. Their intention from the get-go was to do a short residency, make around 250k, and call it a day

Sure it's devastating if you don't match. Would you rather be an unmatched MD/DO or an unmatched DPM? You decide

"I’m a DO. It never crossed my mind that I won’t match. Me and my classmates never went to class and never worried about GPAs."
- I wish I was that smart. I worry about those things all the time, but it keeps me motivated to study harder.

"Sure it's devastating if you don't match. Would you rather be an unmatched MD/DO or an unmatched DPM? You decide"
- Wouldn't want to be in either situation, but I'd go for unmatched DPM since I'd be financially better off due to lower tuition and more merit/supplemental scholarships. Most likely save at least $80-100k and reduce the amt. of interest capitalization.

"There are tons of FM/IM/Path programs you can match into as long as you have a pulse."
- You'd be surprised, I've seen the NRMP data. Some of those programs can be quite competitive.

 

[icebreaker32]

"I’m a DO. It never crossed my mind that I won’t match. Me and my classmates never went to class and never worried about GPAs."
- I wish I was that smart. I worry about those things all the time, but it keeps me motivated to study harder.

"Sure it's devastating if you don't match. Would you rather be an unmatched MD/DO or an unmatched DPM? You decide"
- Wouldn't want to be in either situation, but I'd go for unmatched DPM since I'd be financially better off due to lower tuition and more merit/supplemental scholarships. Most likely save at least $80-100k and reduce the amt. of interest capitalization.

"There are tons of FM/IM/Path programs you can match into as long as you have a pulse."
- You'd be surprised, I've seen the NRMP data. Some of those programs can be quite competitive.

You can certainly get a residency and a job with loan repayment option with ease as an MD/DO.

One can potentially do well as a podiatrist, but to insinuate we somehow have any sort of advantage with residency or job options as a profession over an MD/DO is just wrong.

 

[Bored Snorlax]

You can certainly get a residency and a job with loan repayment option with ease as an MD/DO.

One can potentially do well as a podiatrist, but to insinuate we somehow have any sort of advantage with residency or job options as a profession over an MD/DO is just wrong.

I do not want to compare the two fields, both are great in their own ways and vitally important in medicine.

I was simply answering his question: he explicitly stated "unmatched" so I'll still go with the lower financially burdened option.

I have never brought up job options because I don't have the alternative career attainment info for individuals who don't match in DO/DPM, so I am not going to speculate on that. I do hope that they will have strong support and resources to help them succeed in those situations regardless of the degree.

 

[icebreaker32]

I do not want to compare the two fields, both are great in their own ways and vitally important in medicine.

I was simply answering his question: he explicitly stated "unmatched" so I'll still go with the lower financially burdened option.

I have never brought up job options because I don't have the alternative career attainment info for individuals who don't match in DO/DPM, so I am not going to speculate on that. I do hope that they will have strong support and resources to help them succeed in those situations regardless of the degree.

Best of luck.

Although podiatry can not offer the same opportunities for the vast majority like some professions....you still have a lot of control over your individual success in this profession.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

You can certainly get a residency and a job with loan repayment option with ease as an MD/DO.

One can potentially do well as a podiatrist, but to insinuate we somehow have any sort of advantage with residency or job options as a profession over an MD/DO is just wrong.

Totally agree with this. Not to mention the variability in training for pods. Not all pods can or should big cases like reconstructive surgery or total ankles. Absolutely not the case for MD/DO residencies.

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Best of luck.

Although podiatry can not offer the same opportunities for the vast majority like some professions....you still have a lot of control over your individual success in this profession.

Thanks, I appreciate that. I'm still a first-year newbie, so our perspectives may differ due to my inexperience. I do see a lot of potential for the field if the pod leaders can make good decisions and work together in the best interest of the profession. Absolutely agree that individuals can control their success it's def a grind, but that will produce high quality pods which will make our profession shine and open more opportunities for future pods. Happy New Year!

 

[Weirdy]

Thanks, I appreciate that. I'm still a first-year newbie, so our perspectives may differ due to my inexperience. I do see a lot of potential for the field if the pod leaders can make good decisions and work together in the best interest of the profession. Absolutely agree that individuals can control their success it's def a grind, but that will produce high quality pods which will make our profession shine and open more opportunities for future pods. Happy New Year!

I was like you once.

Don't let it get to your head. Its nice walking around campus feeling like a bigshot.

The real world is different.

We encourage you to continue to push for the changes you want.

 

[PTPuser]

Thanks, I appreciate that. I'm still a first-year newbie, so our perspectives may differ due to my inexperience. I do see a lot of potential for the field if the pod leaders can make good decisions and work together in the best interest of the profession. Absolutely agree that individuals can control their success it's def a grind, but that will produce high quality pods which will make our profession shine and open more opportunities for future pods. Happy New Year!

I was like you once.



The real world is different.

Yeah me too. But weirdy is years beyond me.

But I die inside when I look at the schedule and I see the 10th frito nails coming in and the fact that my attending refuses to give me holiday off cause he said to me, "You'll never get a learning experience like this again. Take this opportunity while you can" while my hand starts to shake and sore cause I'm fighting nippers that are more dull than my love life. And then I get to do it again the next month. And then more.

 

[Bored Snorlax]

Yeah me too. But weirdy is years beyond me.

But I die inside when I look at the schedule and I see the 10th frito nails coming in and the fact that my attending refuses to give me holiday off cause he said to me, "You'll never get a learning experience like this again. Take this opportunity while you can" while my hand starts to shake and sore cause I'm fighting nippers that are more dull than my love life. And then I get to do it again the next month. And then more.

I feel bad for the AZCPM admission person taking a shot each time someone makes a post in this thread.

 

[wwfas]

Someone who applied to our fellowship for next year is from Canada

He’s currently a PGY3 and got this figured out. If you want, send me a PM and I’ll connect you.

Dr Rogers brings up a nice example of Canadians doing training in the USA. I am Canadian, elected to stay in the USA to practice in Washington State near our place in BC. This career has been outstanding personally., I wouldn't trade it for anything. I am a post residency fellowship training program director and practice in an orthopedic group where I am a partner. There are many Canadians who return home and do really well. Sky is the limit really. I have colleagues in Canada who make more than I do. It is true that there are variations from province to province with regards to practice rights. In BC, DPMs are now recognized members of the College of Physicians and Surgeons.

 

[wwfas]

I feel bad for the AZCPM admission person taking a shot each time someone makes a post in this thread.

Never fear, your future practice is what you make of it. You will determine what type of practice you want to have. I haven't cut a nail in more than 10 years. Practicing in an orthopedic group, I surgically repaired probably 15 ankle fractures last month alone.

 

[wwfas]

Congrats on your acceptance!

1. "Is it possible to even defer my acceptance to fall 2024?"

- If you still have some doubts it wouldn't hurt to call the school and ask. The schools I was accepted at gave me a deadline to make a decision and pay a deposit, but there is always special exception.

2. "My biggest concern is the job market and the ROI."

- Most research has indicated a growth projection in the podiatric market largely due to rising geriatrics population (baby boomers!), diabetics, foot injuries, overall global population, etc.
- In terms of ROI and compensation, podiatric physicians should be compensated better. We undergo 4 yrs of school + 3yrs residency training, share similar rigorous basic sciences curriculum as MD/DO, and receive specialized training in LEA diagnosis, treatment/management, and surgery that require extensive dedication and hard work. The field is constantly evolving and we're in the middle of an exciting transitional period. If we continue to improve our standards and patient outcomes, anything is possible.

3. "However, after scrolling through this forum, I can not find a single positive thing being said about podiatry and this is really discouraging, as literally everyone suggests to just apply DO"

- SDN is a valuable resource, but it does not encompass the opinions of the collective podiatric field.

This is an excellent thread that highlights the pros and cons of podiatry:

Considering Podiatry - Pro and Con List - Is It Reasonable and Realistic?

I am considering podiatry and am trying to do my research before choosing a lifelong career. I am planning to forego applying to MD/DO next cycle to apply DPM. I am having second thoughts given the SDN podiatry forum and the amount of posts discussing if podiatry has a reasonable ROI. I made...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Pros of podiatry:

1. You know from day 1 you will specialize in the lower lower extremities, but you also study and master the entire human body system.
- with the DO route many people do not get their first choice of specialty, but with podiatry everyone will be doing Podiatric Medicine/Surgery.
- If you are set on lower extremity medical care and surgery, this is the field for you!

2. Your class size will likely be small, and you will know everyone. There is a lot of collaboration, and you will make a lot of meaningful friendship if you so inclined. In addition, you will have more opportunities for leadership positions, research, access to professors, etc.

3. Most schools share similar/same basic sciences curriculum with MD/DO students, so you will get a standardized education during pre-clinical years. For example, at Temple Podiatry we share the same professors as our sister MD and Dental schools, and they enforce the same standards for everyone. AZCPM is an excellent school that has similar medical basic sciences curriculum and integrative structure, and many other podiatric schools as well. You are in good hands with any podiatric school.

4. U.S. DO seniors match rate was 91.3% compared to podiatry which had 98-100% residency match rate across all the schools.
Source: NRMP releases the 2022 Main Residency Match Results and Data publication, the most comprehensive data resource for the Main Residency Match®

Cons of podiatry:

1. Admittedly, you will not get as much respect as MD/DO, but I always remind myself of this question:

What makes a good physician- is it the title or the impact you make on the lives of your patients?

- As the public becomes more aware of podiatry and the field continues to expand, I am confident podiatry will receive the recognition, respect, and compensation it deserves.

2. We need better standardization across all podiatric schools and residencies to increase the confidence of the public. All pod schools should have better APMLE performance and board certifications should be modernized to ensure that competent podiatric physicians will receive the best resources to meet those high standards and qualifications.

3. There is a disorganized leadership structure in the pod world, but I'm optimistic the pod leaders will unite at some point and do what is best for the profession and future generation.

In conclusion, podiatry is an evolving field and there is a lot of room for improvements, but also opportunities and growth. Both DPM and DO routes are excellent career choices and will provide you with a fulfilling life of service to others. I wish you the best with your decision!

Happy New Year!

I love your summary of the Pros! Not sure the respect is based on degree. I have many patients each week who bypass orthopedic foot and ankle surgeons to choose us as DPMs. Thanks for a really great response!

 

[catladypoddoc]

Can unmatched podiatrists apply for the match again the following year? Many here say that some podiatrists go unmatched and end up wasting 4 years of their life and $250K+ after being unmatched which makes me think that it is a once in a lifetime opportunity, you either match the first time or you give up podiatry. MD/DOs can do SOAP or internships I think to increase their chances of match, is this the same for podiatry?

Last I heard there are more residency spots than there are students as of right now, I have not heard of or known of anyone going completely unmatched. If you don't match, your school is supposed to help you find an open spot. Also schools are required to share their match rates