Desperation for enrollment at NYCPM

[PMG03470]

Look at this desperation for enrollment. I got this email this morning from Dr. Trepal dean at NYCPM…



A Letter from NYCPM’s
Vice President for
Academic Affairs and Dean


Dear NYCPM Alumni:

I hope you’re having a productive and satisfying autumn.

The autumn season is the time of year when colleges of podiatric medicine step up their recruitment efforts for next September’s class. As you might be aware, recruitment for all podiatric medical colleges has been experiencing a downward trend. For several years, applications to colleges nationwide have been dropping, and NYCPM has been similarly afflicted.

Recently the keynote speaker for our annual Faculty Retreat -- a well-known and respected health-care leader -- declared the future of podiatric medicine very bright. He forecast the need: more foot disease due to diabetes, an aging population, vascular issues and more. He cited ambulatory care and surgery as particularly positive for podiatry.

The potential of the field is growing, presenting many opportunities, but applications to podiatric colleges are not growing. In a true turnaround, there are not enough graduate students to fill the residency programs available. This will undoubtedly result in residency programs closing with loss of positions for program directors. Podiatric surgeons who rely on the services of residents to help with their cases will have to go without them. Further, there will be decreased membership in our associations.

To turn these trends around, NYCPM needs your help – the help of its alumni to increase awareness of the profession and of NYCPM. You can do this by participating in activities that can attract the high-quality candidates that NYCPM values – by providing shadowing opportunities, mentorship and both virtual and in-person presentations to potential applicants when needed.

We know you’re busy! But by volunteering just a bit of your time to help with our recruitment efforts, you can show your commitment to the profession and to NYCPM.

Here is a link to a volunteer form that will enable you to check off the areas in which you can help out. This is of vital importance – we hope you will heed our call.

P.S.: For those of you who are members of NYSPMA, you will be receiving a similar appeal for your help.

Many thanks for your consideration.

Fraternally,

Michael J. Trepal, DPM (1981), FACFAS
Professor of Surgery
Vice President for Academic Affairs and Dean
New York College of Podiatric Medicine

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Boba Foot]

 

[heybrother]

You omitted the part of the letter where they asked their alumni to come argue with us on SDN

 

[dtrack22]

This will undoubtedly result in residency programs closing with loss of positions for program directors. Podiatric surgeons who rely on the services of residents to help with their cases will have to go without them. Further, there will be decreased membership in our associations.

Yeah, I’m not seeing the problem here. That’s a win-win-win in my book.

 

[Pronation]

more foot disease due to diabetes, an aging population, vascular issues and more.

There it is, the biggest lie in podiatry. Also I found the bit about attendings that rely on residents both pathetic and hilarious. I hope next year’s admissions are even lower. Good riddance.

 

[Sweatshirt]

Quite embarrassing. They list 1) residency directors will lose their positions, and 2) Podiatrists will lose access to residents doing their cases and inpatient work... as pitfalls of decreased admission

Translation:
Residency directors will lose their cushy jobs with inflated salaries
Bad podiatrists who can't amp a toe without residents help will lose access to residents

Residents are a privilege, not a right. If you can't do your cases or inpatient work without residents help, you are a bad doctor and you shouldn't have residents in the first place

 

[newfeet]

Look at this desperation for enrollment. I got this email this morning from Dr. Trepal dean at NYCPM…



A Letter from NYCPM’s
Vice President for
Academic Affairs and Dean


Dear NYCPM Alumni:

I hope you’re having a productive and satisfying autumn.

The autumn season is the time of year when colleges of podiatric medicine step up their recruitment efforts for next September’s class. As you might be aware, recruitment for all podiatric medical colleges has been experiencing a downward trend. For several years, applications to colleges nationwide have been dropping, and NYCPM has been similarly afflicted.

Recently the keynote speaker for our annual Faculty Retreat -- a well-known and respected health-care leader -- declared the future of podiatric medicine very bright. He forecast the need: more foot disease due to diabetes, an aging population, vascular issues and more. He cited ambulatory care and surgery as particularly positive for podiatry.

The potential of the field is growing, presenting many opportunities, but applications to podiatric colleges are not growing. In a true turnaround, there are not enough graduate students to fill the residency programs available. This will undoubtedly result in residency programs closing with loss of positions for program directors. Podiatric surgeons who rely on the services of residents to help with their cases will have to go without them. Further, there will be decreased membership in our associations.

To turn these trends around, NYCPM needs your help – the help of its alumni to increase awareness of the profession and of NYCPM. You can do this by participating in activities that can attract the high-quality candidates that NYCPM values – by providing shadowing opportunities, mentorship and both virtual and in-person presentations to potential applicants when needed.

We know you’re busy! But by volunteering just a bit of your time to help with our recruitment efforts, you can show your commitment to the profession and to NYCPM.

Here is a link to a volunteer form that will enable you to check off the areas in which you can help out. This is of vital importance – we hope you will heed our call.

P.S.: For those of you who are members of NYSPMA, you will be receiving a similar appeal for your help.

Many thanks for your consideration.

Fraternally,

Michael J. Trepal, DPM (1981), FACFAS
Professor of Surgery
Vice President for Academic Affairs and Dean
New York College of Podiatric Medicine

I volunteered to do the presentations and having students shadow me... There are few colleges near me that they could hit up but don't seem to.

 

[podwho]

I'm pretty sure Trepal was a reason many didn't like nycpm if I herd correctly.

Capitalism is doing it's thing to podiatry.

 

[PMG03470]

I'm pretty sure Trepal was a reason many didn't like nycpm if I herd correctly.

Capitalism is doing it's thing to podiatry.

He was awful. His lectures were crap, his clinic teaching was crap. He 100% only cares about raking in crap students to get their

 

[newfeet]

I'm pretty sure Trepal was a reason many didn't like nycpm if I herd correctly.

Capitalism is doing it's thing to podiatry.

He definitely was not one of my favorites.

 

[wakaflocka88]

I don’t have much words to describe that email, just shocking how delusional he and the school are. The profession as a whole will do much better with less graduates per year as the trash programs close down.

 

[de Ribas]

Yeah, I’m not seeing the problem here. That’s a win-win-win in my book.

Let the process of natural selection work. Let the worst programs get closed.

 

[de Ribas]

Recently the keynote speaker for our annual Faculty Retreat -- a well-known and respected health-care leader -- declared the future of podiatric medicine very bright. He forecast the need: more foot disease due to diabetes, an aging population, vascular issues and more. He cited ambulatory care and surgery as particularly positive for podiatry.

Lol, like if his "declaration" has any significance.

The potential of the field is growing, presenting many opportunities, but applications to podiatric colleges are not growing. In a true turnaround, there are not enough graduate students to fill the residency programs available. This will undoubtedly result in residency programs closing with loss of positions for program directors. Podiatric surgeons who rely on the services of residents to help with their cases will have to go without them. Further, there will be decreased membership in our associations.

They don't even try to hide their true reasons for concern. Nothing about quality of education and training for student/residents and their career success. "Decreased membership is read as decrease in $$ flow.

activities that can attract the high-quality candidates that NYCPM values...

I dont think it's awareness issue. High-quality students are high-quality because they are smart and do their research about podiatry and turn away. I bet that public awareness about podiatry has grown in the past 10-15 years. But numbers are lowest in a long time. It's not like suddenly podiatry became unknown. I guess it's issues within the profession that make high-quality (not only) turn away from podiatry and go for MD/DO/DDS/PA/NP/CRNA or even RN.

These above have many reasons to pursue over podiatry.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Look at this desperation for enrollment. I got this email this morning from Dr. Trepal dean at NYCPM…

I don’t really see anything wrong with this email.

It’s a College reaching out to their alumni asking for help promoting the profession and identifying candidates.

There is nothing untrue about the growing need for podiatry related to diabetes and vascular disease.

Everyone should be doing this right now.

 

[podwho]

There's nothing wrong with the email. It's a bunch of words typed out in English. I don't actually see anything wrong.

I went to their website and it's the same site when I was applying. If you can't invest in a better website in 2022 targeting gen z you really don't deserve a single applicant.

 

[GreenHousePub]

Also maybe it's time to get a new look for the building, as when you google NYCPM this is the result that shows up.

Makes it look like a vocational college for medical assistants.

 

[CutsWithFury]

I don’t really see anything wrong with this email.

It’s a College reaching out to their alumni asking for help promoting the profession and identifying candidates.

There is nothing untrue about the growing need for podiatry related to diabetes and vascular disease.

Everyone should be doing this right now.

The growing need for podiatry is debatable. The job market has pretty much defined that. Yes there is an increasing prevalence of diabetes and vascular disease but doesn't mean we need to graduate more and more podiatrists because of this "figure".

 

[newfeet]

The growing need for podiatry is debatable. The job market has pretty much defined that. Yes there is an increasing prevalence of diabetes and vascular disease but doesn't mean we need to graduate more and more podiatrists because of this "figure".

I am not convinced if podiatry disappeared we would be missed.

 

[air bud]

The growing need for podiatry is debatable. The job market has pretty much defined that. Yes there is an increasing prevalence of diabetes and vascular disease but doesn't mean we need to graduate more and more podiatrists because of this "figure".

Correct. More the ones toiling away in an unfulfilling unproductive private practice should transition to hospital employment. Not new grads to fill these roles. Not every hospital needs 3 hotshot orthoplastic trained pods. 1 and then 2 that do more basic amps and other stuff.

We don't need more podiatrists. We need a re allocation of the existing ones.

 

[diabeticfootdr]

The growing need for podiatry is debatable. The job market has pretty much defined that. Yes there is an increasing prevalence of diabetes and vascular disease but doesn't mean we need to graduate more and more podiatrists because of this "figure".

You can debate anything you like, but it’s a fact.

“By 2060, the number of US adults with diagnosed diabetes is projected to nearly triple, and the percent prevalence double. Our estimates are essential to predict health services needs and plan public health programs aimed to reduce the future burden of diabetes.”

Lin, J., Thompson, T.J., Cheng, Y.J. et al. Projection of the future diabetes burden in the United States through 2060. Popul Health Metrics 16, 9 (2018)

Projection of the future diabetes burden in the United States through 2060 - Population Health Metrics

Background In the United States, diabetes has increased rapidly, exceeding prior predictions. Projections of the future diabetes burden need to reflect changes in incidence, mortality, and demographics. We applied the most recent data available to develop an updated projection through 2060...

doi.org

 

[icebreaker32]

You can debate anything you like, but it’s a fact.

“By 2060, the number of US adults with diagnosed diabetes is projected to nearly triple, and the percent prevalence double. Our estimates are essential to predict health services needs and plan public health programs aimed to reduce the future burden of diabetes.”

Lin, J., Thompson, T.J., Cheng, Y.J. et al. Projection of the future diabetes burden in the United States through 2060. Popul Health Metrics 16, 9 (2018)

Projection of the future diabetes burden in the United States through 2060 - Population Health Metrics

Background In the United States, diabetes has increased rapidly, exceeding prior predictions. Projections of the future diabetes burden need to reflect changes in incidence, mortality, and demographics. We applied the most recent data available to develop an updated projection through 2060...

doi.org

Diabetes (and Alzheimers also) will cost an incredible amount of money and take an incredible amount of resources in the future for this country. No one denies this.

The argument seems valid more podiatrists will be needed......however we honestly heard this exact same argument over 20 years ago. They said they should expand schools and even open new ones to fill the demand that will come.....with aging boomers, and increasing diabetes etc. The army of podiatrists is already here and if we listened to the leaders from 20 years ago the army would already be twice as large...where are all these $200K unfilled job needed for podiatrists?

I think it no longer makes sense to use this as a justification for current enrollment and definitely not expanded enrollment. If there becomes a significant demand by every hospital for a couple podiatrists then salaries will go up enormously. Would that actually be a bad thing to actually have a respectable job market for the first time ever for this profession and expand the schools if this actually happens?

 

[619]

2060 or even 2050 is a long time away for us here. Imagine graduating residency this year or next year and hearing that your $300k dream hospital job won't be available until closer to 2060.

 

[Pronation]

You can debate anything you like, but it’s a fact.

“By 2060, the number of US adults with diagnosed diabetes is projected to nearly triple, and the percent prevalence double. Our estimates are essential to predict health services needs and plan public health programs aimed to reduce the future burden of diabetes.”

Lin, J., Thompson, T.J., Cheng, Y.J. et al. Projection of the future diabetes burden in the United States through 2060. Popul Health Metrics 16, 9 (2018)

Projection of the future diabetes burden in the United States through 2060 - Population Health Metrics

Background In the United States, diabetes has increased rapidly, exceeding prior predictions. Projections of the future diabetes burden need to reflect changes in incidence, mortality, and demographics. We applied the most recent data available to develop an updated projection through 2060...

doi.org

This is not what he's debating whatsoever... Ok, so what if the diabeetus is doubled or tripled over the next FORTY years?! This is the same ridiculous lie that has been perpetually fed to us since we all started pod school. The truth is that the job market for pods absolutely blows. At any given time across the entire country, there are about 10 jobs with a hospital/MSG/ortho group that pay $200k+, otherwise you're stuck at a garbage associate position making $100k for who knows how many years before you can find a job that isn't trash.

Again, this is all repetitive on this forum. You're purposefully ignoring what the younger practitioners are coming on here and saying. I dismiss your advice from a prior thread about cold calling hospitals and begging for them to give you a position. 7 years of training and 300k debt for this??? Oh yay, I was able to create a pod position for myself at a hospital in the middle of nowhere - great.

The motives are obvious - residency PD, "dean", board director, or sleazy private practice owner paying associates 100k. Good riddance.

 

[CutsWithFury]

This is not what he's debating whatsoever... Ok, so what if the diabeetus is doubled or tripled over the next FORTY years?! This is the same ridiculous lie that has been perpetually fed to us since we all started pod school. The truth is that the job market for pods absolutely blows. At any given time across the entire country, there are about 10 jobs with a hospital/MSG/ortho group that pay $200k+, otherwise you're stuck at a garbage associate position making $100k for who knows how many years before you can find a job that isn't trash.

Again, this is all repetitive on this forum. You're purposefully ignoring what the younger practitioners are coming on here and saying. I dismiss your advice from a prior thread about cold calling hospitals and begging for them to give you a position. 7 years of training and 300k debt for this??? Oh yay, I was able to create a pod position for myself at a hospital in the middle of nowhere - great.

The motives are obvious - residency PD, "dean", board director, or sleazy private practice owner paying associates 100k. Good riddance.

 

[call1800doctorb]

I love it. I hope number of applicants continues to drop every year.

 

[wakaflocka88]

You can debate anything you like, but it’s a fact.

“By 2060, the number of US adults with diagnosed diabetes is projected to nearly triple, and the percent prevalence double. Our estimates are essential to predict health services needs and plan public health programs aimed to reduce the future burden of diabetes.”

Lin, J., Thompson, T.J., Cheng, Y.J. et al. Projection of the future diabetes burden in the United States through 2060. Popul Health Metrics 16, 9 (2018)

Projection of the future diabetes burden in the United States through 2060 - Population Health Metrics

Background In the United States, diabetes has increased rapidly, exceeding prior predictions. Projections of the future diabetes burden need to reflect changes in incidence, mortality, and demographics. We applied the most recent data available to develop an updated projection through 2060...

doi.org

Dr. Rogers - this is exactly what my school told me when I started back in 2013. It was also emphasized back in 2012 before I matriculated. 10 years later and the job market is just as bad, if not worse. If 10 years of data isn’t enough to disprove this, I’m not sure if another 30-40 years will make a lick of difference.

You are speaking to being able to connect your residents with jobs, but there are over 600 new grads per year. You’ve posted a few university jobs. Like I’ve said before and as mentioned above, if there are ONLY 100 good jobs posted per year, that’s 1:6, at best. The diabetes thing aside, this statistic alone tells anyone it is a bad investment. I can not figure why you and ABPM continue to ignore what us young practitioners say as we have a wealth of experience collectively in the job market.

There is no debate. We are stating clear facts.

 

[podwho]

Seriously tho who cares if DM and pvd are getting worse. How many times can you bka a person? How many hospital pods out there are downing in pvd dm patients and can't handle the load? Can't be many based on the market.

It's the job of leadership to provide the financial data and benefits of hiring a pod to large hospital groups, not some new grad begging everyone in the corporate ladder to hire them. Instead they are focused on stupid bs credentials.

 

[air bud]

Seriously tho who cares if DM and pvd are getting worse. How many times can you bka a person? How many hospital pods out there are downing in pvd dm patients and can't handle the load? Can't be many based on the market.

It's the job of leadership to provide the financial data and benefits of hiring a pod to large hospital groups, not some new grad begging everyone in the corporate ladder to hire them. Instead they are focused on stupid bs credentials.

By my calculations 2, but I am just a podiatrist so what do I know.

If leaders of this profession wanted to make a difference and improve the field they would close schools and close residencies to improve the education and opportunities for all.

I hope all the prepods are in here reading these threads and not posting all these stupid what are my chances.....

 

[Pronation]

By my calculations 2, but I am just a podiatrist so what do I know.

I am confident in your ability to count up to 10.

 

[HaimFeldman]

By my calculations 2, but I am just a podiatrist so what do I know.

If leaders of this profession wanted to make a difference and improve the field they would close schools and close residencies to improve the education and opportunities for all.

I hope all the prepods are in here reading these threads and not posting all these stupid what are my chances.....

Close schools, close residencies, and maybe most importantly, all the ancient TFPs still practicing need to retire... or honor the ancient tradition of ättestupa. Their choice of course.

 

[Boba Foot]

I don’t really see anything wrong with this email.

Sez the chief of podiatry at a residency institution. The rest of us on here don’t have the need to keep the student pipeline pumping like you do, sir. We are able to call things as they are.

 

[PTPuser]

I hope all the prepods are in here reading these threads and not posting all these stupid what are my chances.....

How will they know if they have a shot at being a Student Surgeon with GPA of 1.1 and MCAT of 2??



/s. That stat above was me

 

[msion]

Simple supply and demand. The market is very efficient and always corrects itself. Don't try to beat the market. Having alumni recruiting students is like individual investors thinking they can beat S&P 500.

A few years back on the Vet forums people were talking about oversaturation of the job market. Vets and vet techs hate their jobs. But private practices and private equity corporations think there will always be starry-eyed young people willing to work for slave wage to care for animals. And then 2022 is here and there is the greatest Vet shortage we've ever seen. Low pay and high burnout rate just made people quit their jobs and switch professions entirely. Private practices trying to eat their young couldn't survive and then closed. VCA is now offering up to $75-100k signon bonus in some locations.

The above needs to happen in podiatry. And let's first start with the residency directors that can't survive in the real world without their residents.

 

[Weirdy]

Keep it polite.

I also disagree with increasing DM and PVD as a driving factor for increased foot and ankle needs.
If that were the case- it would be seen in current market demand. It is not.

I read the article you linked. If you are basing your argument on this article specifically, it is only calculating diabetes. Nothing else.

Increased DM does not mean increased foot and ankle needs. If our healthcare model is based on preventive measures, this further drives down diabetic foot wounds, infections, etc before they even occur.

How many residents on here have told their well controlled diabetic patients- with no class findings- that they do not qualify for free nail trimmings?


An increase in diabetes also does not affect our current market demand. Again- we would have seen this reflected in more jobs requiring our specific specialty.

 

[Weirdy]

"Podiatric surgeons who rely on the services of residents to help with their cases will have to go without them."

The above quote is so absurd, I'm not even sure how to process it. Who exactly was he trying to appeal to? The surgeons who depend on residents to do their work? The surgeons who want residents in their cases so they can train them? Clearly not the latter as he's explicitly stated "podiatric surgeons who rely on the services of"

Do you see MD/DO surgeons relying on the services of residents, so much so, that they will be unable to operate without them?

If you are going to appeal to those who call themselves surgeons- your training should reflect that. Namely being able to do a surgery without the help of a resident.

Good residencies will beat this into their residents and make sure they are sufficient holding a knife WITHOUT help.

 

[HaimFeldman]

"Podiatric surgeons who rely on the services of residents to help with their cases will have to go without them."

The above quote is so absurd, I'm not even sure how to process it. Who exactly was he trying to appeal to? The surgeons who depend on residents to do their work? The surgeons who want residents in their cases so they can train them? Clearly not the latter as he's explicitly stated "podiatric surgeons who rely on the services of"

Do you see MD/DO surgeons relying on the services of residents, so much so, that they will be unable to operate without them?

If you are going to appeal to those who call themselves surgeons- your training should reflect that. Namely being able to do a surgery without the help of a resident.

Good residencies will beat this into their residents and make sure they are sufficient holding a knife WITHOUT help.

Of course not.
That's what they have PAs for.

 

[heybrother]

I still remember when I applied to podiatry school in 2011. I received phonecalls literally the morning after I applied from almost every single school. I was working at the time and by 8:15 my phone was ringing with calls from Philly, Ohio, Miami, NY, California, etc.

The desperation was real then - its just that there bottom line wasn't be threatened. I was very turned off by the experience though obviously not enough to change course.

Supposedly there were only 300 something students this past year that matriculated (not including Tejas). Unless the schools were wildly profitable - someone has to be hurting. Presumably the larger schools ie. NY, Kent, Chicago, Temple. The problem is 300 students short can't really be accounted for by the small schools. Even if all the "50 student" schools are down by 20/50 - you still can't account for the losses without the large schools having plummeting attendance.

I don't think this is the last we'll hear from a school calling out to try and stop the bleeding.

In regards to diabetes - I'm sure more and more people will have it though hopefully the new medications will lead to better control

Podiatrists and podiatry schools have been crying "diabetes will save us" - forever. Seems to me that dog don't hunt. Every pre-pods tongue a few years ago was - "we'll have plenty of work, diabetes". If that was a real lure we wouldn't be in this situation.

The unfortunate truth is - for all of the interesting things we can do for diabetics with deformity - a substantial portion of the care administered to diabetics by most podiatrists is nail and callus trimming.

We can wrap that in fancy words and slogans and say its God's calling but at the end of the day pre-pods who shadow a podiatrist who does a lot of "high risk foot care" know that they walk in to room after room and watch someone immediately start busting nails as if there was gold in those debris. You can say there's lots of work - but do people want to go to school/resident for 7 years for the right to do it. There's a reason it stings for a lot of people when a patient says "you went to school for 7 years to do this". If you haven't heard a patient say this you aren't listening or you are lying.

I feel like owning my own private practice gives me a different perspective than a lot of people here (though many were PP for at least awhile). Insurance does not value what we do. Perhaps all physicians are experiencing this, but as a podiatrist I feel like either you have a big tax ID number over you or insurance doesn't blink as they cut your reimbursement to sub-Medicare. Tell them you are leaving, they don't bat an eye. Associates of PP suffer a double disaster - the greed of their owner but increasingly relevant each day - the greedy of the insurance payors. So when someone says - there will be lots of work - I just think, yes, but who will pay for it.

The problem for me with diabetes and PVD is - they are systemic illnesses that affect the foot without truly being treated in the foot. I don't actually want PVD showing up in my clinic. I want to diagnose it and I hope someone else will treat it aggressively. My nightmare is a patient in my clinic suffering ischemic tissue loss or rest pain or claudication or whatever where the cardiologist doesn't feel there's enough indication for intervention. Then I get to follow along waiting for something to happen.

I thought pushing "surgery" was a much better form of "propoganda" for luring students. The problem is the smart ones we will realize that most podiatrists just aren't that surgical. And when they complete the pathway and find themself in the operating room they'll realize what I pointed out above. Most surgery isn't very profitable. There is in my area one common commercial payor that reimburses at a rate that can sustain my practice. Everything else I do is just a gift of my time and skill to the patient. Its a very nice gift and most patients appreciate it, but it isn't lucrative and it causes most of my stress.

Podiatry schools have left a lot of bodies along the road. They've put a lot of money in their pockets and patted themselves on the back. I truly hope that what is happening to them right now is a reflection of their misdeeds. I don't know that it is though. A lot of it may just be the economy. Better opportunities vailable elsewhere and minds sharp enough to question how this degree keeps going up in price when reimbursement doesn't. A lot of it may be the evolution of nursing into more fields. I actually meet a "pre-nursing" student the other day who told me they wanted to be an NP. Seems smart to me. But this thing where podiatry proponent say the future is bright while everyone runs from the field is just ...humorous, sad, silly. You're like a person on a dating app striking out and emailing your family to tell them you are a catch.

 

[msion]

Most surgery isn't very profitable. There is in my area one common commercial payor that reimburses at a rate that can sustain my practice. Everything else I do is just a gift of my time and skill to the patient. Its a very nice gift and most patients appreciate it, but it isn't lucrative and it causes most of my stress.

This 100%.

Unless you own shares of ASCs or bill fraudulently, surgeries really don't make much sense at all. Of course for hospital employed docs this can be different since part of the salary actually comes from the facility fees.

I now cut down my elective cases to just 2-3/per week. And I am very selective on the surgery patients. In the real world it's all about $$$ and risk management. Pain med refills, answering why the foot is still swollen repeatedly, filling out disability forms or their DMV parking permits are what give me stress. Patient may appreciate your time and efforts in the PACU, but the moment they are in pain or can't get you to complete their work forms on the same day they get feisty. I lost hope in humanity already over what I experienced. After all, we are just damn service providers.

Diabetes won't equal more work. Medications are getting much better nowadays. More insurances are covering gastric bypass that essentially eliminated DM for quite a few patients in my area. The only work will come from uncontrolled DM in patients without insurance or with medicaid.
For a while rheumatism and leprosy also caused limb deformities. When was the last time someone did a rheumatoid reconstruction on the foot/ankle in recent years? I never did. Leprosy? Wait what's that?

 

[CutsWithFury]

We can wrap that in fancy words and slogans and say its God's calling but at the end of the day pre-pods who shadow a podiatrist who does a lot of "high risk foot care" know that they walk in to room after room and watch someone immediately start busting nails as if there was gold in those debris. You can say there's lots of work - but do people want to go to school/resident for 7 years for the right to do it. There's a reason it stings for a lot of people when a patient says "you went to school for 7 years to do this". If you haven't heard a patient say this you aren't listening or you are lying.

At my first hospital gig I was getting hammered in clinic one day because I had a lot of patients. I have this diabetic medicaid patient show up with his adult daughter who doesn't work. I am clipping his toenails. The room is silent. The daughter asks how long I trained to be a podiatrist. I said 7 years between school and residency. She scoffed and said "seems like a waste of time to just cut toenails". I turned my head with fire in my eyes but I didn't say anything. I took it but inside I was raging.

I discharged the patient on the grounds of harassment and unprofessional behavior from his daughter. Patient had a hard time finding another podiatrist because nobody in private practice nearby would take their crappy medicaid insurance.

True story

 

[heybrother]

At my first hospital gig I was getting hammered in clinic one day because I had a lot of patients. I have this diabetic medicaid patient show up with his adult daughter who doesn't work. I am clipping his toenails. The room is silent. The daughter asks how long I trained to be a podiatrist. I said 7 years between school and residency. She scoffed and said "seems like a waste of time to just cut toenails". I turned my head with fire in my eyes but I didn't say anything. I took it but inside I was raging.

I discharged the patient on the grounds of harassment and unprofessional behavior from his daughter. Patient had a hard time finding another podiatrist because nobody in private practice nearby would take their crappy medicaid insurance.

True story

The last time someone said this to me I thought of you. The idea of firing them did put the briefest hint of a smile on my face. I thought about the usual defense mechanisms a podiatrist would say - I do lots of stuff. I'm a surgeon. I was just in the OR. Then I thought about what I really want to say. Medicare is paying for this because your body is rotting and dying due to sugar and smoking.

 

[GreenHousePub]

The last time someone said this to me I thought of you. The idea of firing them did put the briefest hint of a smile on my face. I thought about the usual defense mechanisms a podiatrist would say - I do lots of stuff. I'm a surgeon. I was just in the OR. Then I thought about what I really want to say. Medicare is paying for this because your body is rotting and dying due to sugar and smoking.

I usually just laugh it off. Then get into my new car and drive to my great house lol.

 

[heybrother]

I usually just laugh it off. Then get into my new car and drive to my great house lol.

I am capable of feeling a spectrum of emotions so I do sometimes ponder the idea of collecting $400+an hour for something so trivial. Doesn't happen every hour but its hard to argue with that for a service with nearly no liability/global etc.

 

[iambm]

Look at this desperation for enrollment. I got this email this morning from Dr. Trepal dean at NYCPM…



A Letter from NYCPM’s
Vice President for
Academic Affairs and Dean


Dear NYCPM Alumni:

I hope you’re having a productive and satisfying autumn.

The autumn season is the time of year when colleges of podiatric medicine step up their recruitment efforts for next September’s class. As you might be aware, recruitment for all podiatric medical colleges has been experiencing a downward trend. For several years, applications to colleges nationwide have been dropping, and NYCPM has been similarly afflicted.

Recently the keynote speaker for our annual Faculty Retreat -- a well-known and respected health-care leader -- declared the future of podiatric medicine very bright. He forecast the need: more foot disease due to diabetes, an aging population, vascular issues and more. He cited ambulatory care and surgery as particularly positive for podiatry.

The potential of the field is growing, presenting many opportunities, but applications to podiatric colleges are not growing. In a true turnaround, there are not enough graduate students to fill the residency programs available. This will undoubtedly result in residency programs closing with loss of positions for program directors. Podiatric surgeons who rely on the services of residents to help with their cases will have to go without them. Further, there will be decreased membership in our associations.

To turn these trends around, NYCPM needs your help – the help of its alumni to increase awareness of the profession and of NYCPM. You can do this by participating in activities that can attract the high-quality candidates that NYCPM values – by providing shadowing opportunities, mentorship and both virtual and in-person presentations to potential applicants when needed.

We know you’re busy! But by volunteering just a bit of your time to help with our recruitment efforts, you can show your commitment to the profession and to NYCPM.

Here is a link to a volunteer form that will enable you to check off the areas in which you can help out. This is of vital importance – we hope you will heed our call.

P.S.: For those of you who are members of NYSPMA, you will be receiving a similar appeal for your help.

Many thanks for your consideration.

Fraternally,

Michael J. Trepal, DPM (1981), FACFAS
Professor of Surgery
Vice President for Academic Affairs and Dean
New York College of Podiatric Medicine

I can tell you exactly why the enrollment is low. What you guys will soon find out is that the average full time salaries offers are between 100k and 130k. Just look at indeed for NY. Just look at nycpm putting a posting for surgical podiatrist 130k. It's a joke!!! PAs start at 120k at someplaces in ny. MDs start at 190k to 200k. Sorry, can't make a living on what they offer podiatrists and I regret it!!! No one is looking at this big discrepancy across the board in ny and APMA is not talking about it. So no wonder there is a low enrollment... it shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[HardRoadPaved]

What is also interesting is how class profiles are also shifting to more women than men.

https://aacpm.org/wp-content/uploads/App-by-Sex-2013-2022-10-2022.pdf

I know this is a generalization but women usually want to settle down and start a family. This impacts the financials if many are not giving 100% of their time to podiatry in their young production years.

 

[PMG03470]

I can tell you exactly why the enrollment is low. What you guys will soon find out is that the average full time salaries offers are between 100k and 130k. Just look at indeed for NY. Just look at nycpm putting a posting for surgical podiatrist 130k. It's a joke!!! PAs start at 120k at someplaces in ny. MDs start at 190k to 200k. Sorry, can't make a living on what they offer podiatrists and I regret it!!! No one is looking at this big discrepancy across the board in ny and APMA is not talking about it. So no wonder there is a low enrollment... it shouldn't be a surprise.

I don’t think a single SDN poster said they were surprised… it’s just sad how desperate they are lol

 

[DYK343]

I can tell you exactly why the enrollment is low. What you guys will soon find out is that the average full time salaries offers are between 100k and 130k. Just look at indeed for NY. Just look at nycpm putting a posting for surgical podiatrist 130k. It's a joke!!! PAs start at 120k at someplaces in ny. MDs start at 190k to 200k. Sorry, can't make a living on what they offer podiatrists and I regret it!!! No one is looking at this big discrepancy across the board in ny and APMA is not talking about it. So no wonder there is a low enrollment... it shouldn't be a surprise.

Except some pediatricians and maybe some PCPs most MDs make way more than 190-200k.

 

[Feli]

Except some pediatricians and maybe some PCPs most MDs make way more than 190-200k.

Yeah, that's not even VA level doc pay (which is viewed as good by many DPMs, junk by most MDs).

Even a PCP is doing it quite wrong if they're making that money these days.
Some NPs make that much... nearly all full-time CRNAs do.

 

[Feli]

I can tell you exactly why the enrollment is low. What you guys will soon find out is that ...

You are waaay late to the party, brah.
You are trying to apply logic and ROI and common sense, but this recruit crisis is basic insider knowledge, fam:

We already know from reading Podiatry Sideways, which we keep getting whether we un-subscribe ten times or not, that all podiatry recruitment and enroll problems are - and always were - the fault of ... (drumroll) ... SDN ! "10-15 users" to be exact.

"

​ ​

​ ​

​ ​ Be a Positive Influence for Podiatry​ Podiatry is a wonderful profession full of dedicated physicians who practice our specialty. We save feet from amputations, fix fractures, cure infections, and keep people active. We treat infants through seniors. We work in offices, clinics, hospitals, and surgery centers. We are a respected part of the healthcare team with parity in our recognition among medical staff, in the VA, in universities, and government agencies. There are so many opportunities in finding or creating the ideal job for any podiatrist. So, why aren’t more people choosing a career in podiatry? That’s a question asked by Dr. Douglas Richie in his recently published blog where he provides valuable insight into the student recruitment crisis. Dr. Richie reviewed AACPM data which showed a 29% decrease in podiatry school applications since 2020 and a 21% decrease in the last year alone. In 2022 there were 716 applicants for 697 seats. This excludes the new Texas school which has its own in-state applicant pool.​

​ ​ ​ ​ Dr. Richie surmises that one particular online forum is having a direct negative impact on podiatry school applications. We think he’s right. The forum is hosted on the website www.StudentDoctor.net (SDN). SDN is a non-profit with a noble mission where prospective health career students can research about the professions and engage with senior students or practicing professionals. The problem is that the three Podiatry Forums (Pre-Podiatry, Podiatry Students, Podiatric Residents & Physicians) have a significant volume of the posts by 10-15 users who are disgruntled practicing podiatrists. They actively discourage students to go into podiatry and they drown out any positive comments. Thousands of prospective students read these forums before deciding if they want to be a podiatrist. We don't think it has to be this way. Now the ask … We need you to help us move Podiatry Forward by being a truthful advocate for podiatry. Follow these easy steps: 1. Go to https://forums.studentdoctor.net/ and click “Sign Up” in the top right. 2. Register with a screen name. Stay anonymous or use your own name. 3. Review the Forums and respond to inaccurate information. Be a trusted source for students considering podiatry. 4. Tips for Positive Engagement​ Do post frequently, in response to an existing thread or create your own thread Do use links to data and useful sources Do show your pride in the profession ​ Don’t use personal attacks or belittle others Don’t be dissuaded by anonymous bomb-throwing posters (far more people are silent and reading) Do report posts that violate the community standards (link: https://www.studentdoctor.net/online-service-agreement/) to the moderators. We believe in podiatry. We believe that our profession can change lives both for our patients and our practitioners. We believe in moving Podiatry Forward. Thank you for your support.​

​

​ ​

"

 

[Pronation]

You are waaay late to the party, brah.

We already know from reading Podiatry Sideways, which we keep getting whether we un-subscribe ten times or not, that all podiatry recruitment and enroll problems are the fault of ... (drumroll) ... SDN ! "10-15 users" to be exact.

"

​ ​

​ ​

​ ​ Be a Positive Influence for Podiatry​ Podiatry is a wonderful profession full of dedicated physicians who practice our specialty. We save feet from amputations, fix fractures, cure infections, and keep people active. We treat infants through seniors. We work in offices, clinics, hospitals, and surgery centers. We are a respected part of the healthcare team with parity in our recognition among medical staff, in the VA, in universities, and government agencies. There are so many opportunities in finding or creating the ideal job for any podiatrist. So, why aren’t more people choosing a career in podiatry? That’s a question asked by Dr. Douglas Richie in his recently published blog where he provides valuable insight into the student recruitment crisis. Dr. Richie reviewed AACPM data which showed a 29% decrease in podiatry school applications since 2020 and a 21% decrease in the last year alone. In 2022 there were 716 applicants for 697 seats. This excludes the new Texas school which has its own in-state applicant pool.​

​ ​ ​ ​ Dr. Richie surmises that one particular online forum is having a direct negative impact on podiatry school applications. We think he’s right. The forum is hosted on the website www.StudentDoctor.net (SDN). SDN is a non-profit with a noble mission where prospective health career students can research about the professions and engage with senior students or practicing professionals. The problem is that the three Podiatry Forums (Pre-Podiatry, Podiatry Students, Podiatric Residents & Physicians) have a significant volume of the posts by 10-15 users who are disgruntled practicing podiatrists. They actively discourage students to go into podiatry and they drown out any positive comments. Thousands of prospective students read these forums before deciding if they want to be a podiatrist. We don't think it has to be this way. Now the ask … We need you to help us move Podiatry Forward by being a truthful advocate for podiatry. Follow these easy steps: 1. Go to https://forums.studentdoctor.net/ and click “Sign Up” in the top right. 2. Register with a screen name. Stay anonymous or use your own name. 3. Review the Forums and respond to inaccurate information. Be a trusted source for students considering podiatry. 4. Tips for Positive Engagement​ Do post frequently, in response to an existing thread or create your own thread Do use links to data and useful sources Do show your pride in the profession ​ Don’t use personal attacks or belittle others Don’t be dissuaded by anonymous bomb-throwing posters (far more people are silent and reading) Do report posts that violate the community standards (link: https://www.studentdoctor.net/online-service-agreement/) to the moderators. We believe in podiatry. We believe that our profession can change lives both for our patients and our practitioners. We believe in moving Podiatry Forward. Thank you for your support.​

​

​ ​

"

Thanks for reminding us of the absolute garbage that they write.

 

[heybrother]

I can tell you exactly why the enrollment is low. What you guys will soon find out is that the average full time salaries offers are between 100k and 130k. Just look at indeed for NY. Just look at nycpm putting a posting for surgical podiatrist 130k. It's a joke!!! PAs start at 120k at someplaces in ny. MDs start at 190k to 200k. Sorry, can't make a living on what they offer podiatrists and I regret it!!! No one is looking at this big discrepancy across the board in ny and APMA is not talking about it. So no wonder there is a low enrollment... it shouldn't be a surprise.

How did you come to learn the truth about podiatry?