Degrees in paramedicine?

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emttim

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http://www.wcu.edu/4637.asp

What do you guys think med schools' take on these degrees are? This is the first I've learned of these, but personally, I'd rather get a degree in this rather than something else....a lot more relevant to being a health care provider.

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This program isnt the first of its kind... there are others.

Anyway, If you are looking to get a degree program to facilitate getting into med school, I wouldnt do this one. Its not a good idea from both "directions"

Med schools want folks that have strong scientific backgrounds, who can think "scientifically" So, a degree in something like biochemistry will help you more... especially since the first 2 years of med school are basic sciences.

From the other side, you'll learn medicine the "EMS way"... assessment and treatment. Med Schools teach medicine the allopathic or osteopathic way. In some ways, you'll have to re-learn some things, and break bad habits. In my med school interview this was an issue. They brought up the medic experience, and turned it against me this way. I had to convince them that I was willing and able to re-learn medicine the right way.

So, if your goal is medicine, this program won't help you, near as I can tell.
 
For the sake of being the coolest forum on SDN, does anyone want to see if they can find a list of the colleges that offer this degree? If you've heard of any, post it.

I believe George Washington University has one.
 
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For the sake of being the coolest forum on SDN, does anyone want to see if they can find a list of the colleges that offer this degree? If you've heard of any, post it.

I believe George Washington University has one.

Hopefully the program will be more informative...I did some more digging down on this one, and yeah sure it has a science concentration that lets you take your pre-med classes as part of the degree, but the online program doesn't really give you any information at all on how you're going to take those classes. :rolleyes:

Guess I'll stick to UCSB and Aquatic Biology, at least what they require for their degree and how they expect you to do the requirements is crystal clear; just like every other normal degree program.
 
The University of Maryland Baltimore County offers a BS in Emergency Health Services. I graduated in May via the paramedic track, and I know a couple of my beloved classmates lurk on this site. There is also a management track which includes coursework in the health administration and public policy departments.
The department has a graduate program offering a MS as well.
http://ehs.umbc.edu/
 
I am familiar with Western Carolina University's Degree in Emergency Medical Care (EMC). My original major at WCU was EMC, however, I was already a paramedic with my A.A.S. in EMS when I went there and the program is geared more towards people with absolutely no EMS backgrounds so I found myself repeating a lot of courses I'd already had, so I switched into Emergency Management. WCU's program has the core courses that are designed to fulfill the requirements of sitting for your Paramedic certification exam and it has two "concentrations": One in Science (for pre-med) and one in Management. The faculty in this program is excellent and one of the full-time faculty members is an EM Physician who is a unique individual, but truly brilliant. I would definately recommend this program for anybody who is not already a paramedic, wants to become one and get a bachelor's degree in the process.

WCU's EMC degree program was actually the first. WCU was the first school to offer the first four-year degree program in EMS. Since then others have come along and I believe that there are currently 12 or 13 four-year schools with EMS programs and a couple of Graduate Level Programs.

About the online program: It is designed for people whom are already certified paramedics and have an Associate's Degree or significant transfer credit. The EMC courses are taught completely online and you take your liberal studies and science courses at a local community college. The downside to this program is that if you are already a paramedic you will be repeating a lot of your EMS courses and getting the same information. For example, I did not get transfer credit for Intro to Clinical Medicine (EMC 340) and was required to take it, this course was the "Intro to EMS" course and I did not get transfer credit, this was the reason I changed majors was because I wanted to learn new material.

I do disagree with the statement that EMS will not prepare you for med school. My personal opinion is that it can be very good preparation because you learn to deal with a variety of populations, how to work under pressure, and how to do a variety of procedures in less than ideal environments. You learn critical thinking skills being a Paramedic that are invaluable for anything you do in life. You can get quite a bit of patient care experience that medical schools are looking for now. From all the talking I have done with a large number of med school admissions offices there is no longer any one certain degree that they are looking for (as it used to be with biology or chemistry). They are more interested in seeing a candidate with a good overall and science GPA and a breadth of volunteer/work experience and some previous healthcare experience.

One comment I do agree with is that there are some things that Paramedics who go to med school will have to re-learn, but I believe the number of those things is limited, it is more like there will be a number of things that the paramedic will need to refresh on and learn in greater detail. One of the greatest things to me about paramedics is their ability to improvise, adapt and overcome. We learn and re-learn almost on a daily basis. That is not to say that some Med school interview panels do not have a preconceived or misconstrued notion about paramedics.

Just my two cents.
 
I am familiar with Western Carolina University's Degree in Emergency Medical Care (EMC).
Excellent post! That was a big help!
Do you know if the Medical School pre-reqs are able to be completed in the program, or would a student need to take additional classes?
 
Excellent post! That was a big help!
Do you know if the Medical School pre-reqs are able to be completed in the program, or would a student need to take additional classes?

Since the basic requirements to most medical schools are Two semesters of inorganic chem, two semesters of organic chem, two semesters of biology and two semesters of physics then yes you can. Now you would have to look into the medical schools that you are intersted in to see what their specific requirements are. For example, some require statistics and others recommend additional courses such as cell bio, micro, etc..

The science courses you would take if you were getting a B.S. in EMC with a Science concentration are:

BIOL 291 Human Anatomy and Physiology I
BIOL 292 Human Anatomy and Physiology II

CHEM 132 Survey of Chemistry I
CHEM 133 Survey of Chemistry II or CHEM 140 Advanced General Chemistry
CHEM 241 Organic Chemistry I
CHEM 242 Organic Chemistry II
CHEM 272 Organic Chemistry Lab

PHYS 130 Introductory Physics I
PHYS 131 Introductory Physics II

Plus another 2 hours of Program electives that can be used in the sciences and 7-8 hours of general electives which can be used in sciences. These hours could be used to take courses like Cell bio or biochem

The program also includes a couple other courses like a crisis intervention psychology course and pharmacology courses.

The EMC program website is http://emc.wcu.edu
 
UTHSCSA has a BS in EHS.

Loma Linda also has a similar BS degree in emergency medical care. this program is open to EMTPs, RNs, and RTs and there are tracks for pre-PAs and premeds.
 
We need more of these degree programs for EMS providers. Better education is key to making EMS more of a professional endevor and thus increasing salaries for providers.

For those of you going from EMT/EMT-P to pre-med you will run into many people some on admission committees who will tell you that their is no value in pre-hospital experiance ... They are wrong. My paramedic experiance helped me through med school and still is an ER doc.
 
We need more of these degree programs for EMS providers. Better education is key to making EMS more of a professional endevor and thus increasing salaries for providers.

For those of you going from EMT/EMT-P to pre-med you will run into many people some on admission committees who will tell you that their is no value in pre-hospital experiance ... They are wrong. My paramedic experiance helped me through med school and still is an ER doc.

Well thats good to hear. Someone should tell this to the med school admissions committees, and some anti-medic ER docs.

A paper published a few years ago on selection criteriia for EM residents put EMT-P expereince high on the list... that was encouraging.
 
We need more of these degree programs for EMS providers. Better education is key to making EMS more of a professional endevor and thus increasing salaries for providers.

For those of you going from EMT/EMT-P to pre-med you will run into many people some on admission committees who will tell you that their is no value in pre-hospital experiance ... They are wrong. My paramedic experiance helped me through med school and still is an ER doc.

Agreed.

While other allied health fields have gone to standard degree programs (eg, ASN, BSN, MSN, DSN/PhD), EMS still lags behind. We arent going to be paid or respected on the same level, when our colleagues know that while some of us are ER attendings, or have a Masters in Public Health, others of us havent graduated High School.

We don't even own our own realm. Many non-routine transports are done by non-EMS preactitioners (RNs, RRTs, MDs). The medical textbooks still tell the doctors that they have to staff the transports with non-EMS personnel. I suppose that's done because a nurse who sees neonates all day every day, will notice a decompensating neonate before a medic will... We dont even have the luxury of holding our own turf.

Once all EMS folks start playing the conventional education game, with undergrad and grad programs, and branching into MPH, MBA, MPA, JD etc, I think things will improve.

One of the keys is that we keep EMS as our primary career. Many of us that go for higher education, have to go where the job takes us. Many times that becomes being the MD for a single EMS unit, or Disaster Prep for an entire reigon. We've got a "brain-drain" worked right into the system.

We need to have college educators. researchers, politicians, bio-med engeneers, all working together to get EMS to stand on its own. While I think its possible in theory, I wonder if it will ever happen.
 
Well thats good to hear. Someone should tell this to the med school admissions committees, and some anti-medic ER docs.

A paper published a few years ago on selection criteriia for EM residents put EMT-P expereince high on the list... that was encouraging.

Actually, EMT experience (basic/paramedic not differentiated) was listed as something considered in an open response portion of the survey, by only 5 out of 94 program directors responding. It was not one of the criteria evaluated quantitatively by the paper:

Acad Emerg Med. 2000 Jan;7(1):54-60.
Selection criteria for emergency medicine residency applicants.
Crane JT, Ferraro CM.

OBJECTIVES: To determine the criteria used by emergency medicine (EM) residency selection committees to select their residents, to determine whether there is a consensus among residency programs, to inform programs of areas of possible inconsistency, and to better educate applicants pursuing careers in EM. METHODS: A questionnaire consisting of 20 items based on the current Electronic Residency Application Service (ERAS) guidelines was mailed to the program directors of all 118 EM residencies in existence in February 1998. The program directors were instructed to rank each item on a five-point scale (5 = most important, 1 = least important) as to its importance in the selection of residents. Followup was done in the form of e-mail and facsimile. RESULTS: The overall response rate was 79.7%, with 94 of 118 programs responding. Items ranking as most important (4.0-5.0) in the selection process included: EM rotation grade (mean +/- SD = 4.79 +/- 0.50), interview (4.62 +/- 0.63), clinical grades (4.36 +/- 0.70), and recommendations (4.11 +/- 0.85). Moderate emphasis (3.0-4.0) was placed on: elective done at program director's institution (3.75 +/- 1.25), U.S. Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE) step II (3.34 +/- 0.93), interest expressed in program director's institution (3.30 +/- 1.19), USMLE step I (3.28 +/- 0.86), and awards/achievements (3.16 +/- 0.88). Less emphasis (<3.0) was placed on Alpha Omega Alpha Honor Society (AOA) status (3.01 +/- 1.09), medical school attended (3.00 +/- 0.85), extracurricular activities (2.99 +/- 0.87), basic science grades (2.88 +/- 0.93), publications (2.87 +/- 0.99), and personal statement (2.75 +/- 0.96). Items most agreed upon by respondents (lowest standard deviation, SD) included EM rotation grade (SD 0.50), interview (SD 0.63), and clinical grades (SD 0.70). Of the 94 respondents, 37 (39.4%) replied they had minimum requirements for USMLE step I (195.11 +/- 13.10), while 30 (31.9%) replied they had minimum requirements for USMLE step II (194.27 +/- 14.96). Open-ended responses to "other" were related to personal characteristics, career/goals, and medical school performance. CONCLUSIONS: The selection criteria with the highest mean values as reported by the program directors were EM rotation grade, interview, clinical grades, and recommendations. Criteria showing the most consistency (lowest SD) included EM rotation grade, interview, and clinical grades. Results are compared with those from previous multispecialty studies.
 
I'm actually a student at WCU, although I am somewhat of an quirk. I came in as a Paramedic and used the program as a bridge to a four year degree. It was the first one, and is one of only 14 in the country. Out of a class of 10-20 a year, WCU routinely sends 1-2 to med school. The program is taught by practicing Emergency Medicine physicians, and they physical exam, treatments, etc are taught to a very high level, not the EMS (implied half-a##ed) way. There is a very big emphasis on research as well, which we can all agree EMS needs more of. Also, since the program is designed as a way of assisting students, both incoming Paramedics and non-PMs in getting their prereqs, it actually does help in many ways. I cannot say enough good about the program. Feel free to fire away with any other questions,
Josh
 
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