Columbia P&S Class of 2012

[MsJLewis]

That just made my day!!

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[dienekes88]

uhh... Wow?

I thought that was just a rumor to entice students. That's... insane. Talk about administration being responsive to student input.



I <3 P&S!

 

[drblueshades]

I'm a second-year at P&S, just finishing up the year. Congrats to all the incoming students in 2012! Something like 90% of the Class of 2011 wanted P/F for second year SO BAD that they worked hard and made it happen. Since their class felt so strongly and their leadership worked so hard for P/F, I suppose it was the right decision for them, and the curriculum committee (faculty and students) feels OK with this change. However, I'm a big fan of having a few H/P/F courses in second year (four are H/P/F this year, the rest are P/F), since it gives students a little more objective control over AOA/class rank, besides simply the subjective evaluations from third year. I agree that preclinical grades are unimportant for residency, but AOA can matter.

 

[cattt]

I'm a second-year at P&S, just finishing up the year. Congrats to all the incoming students in 2012! Something like 90% of the Class of 2011 wanted P/F for second year SO BAD that they worked hard and made it happen. Since their class felt so strongly and their leadership worked so hard for P/F, I suppose it was the right decision for them, and the curriculum committee (faculty and students) feels OK with this change. However, I'm a big fan of having a few H/P/F courses in second year (four are H/P/F this year, the rest are P/F), since it gives students a little more objective control over AOA and class rank, besides simply the subjective evaluations from third year. I agree that preclinical grades are unimportant for residency, but AOA can matter.

For full disclosure: According to Dean Mellman, 2nd year test scores will still play some sort of as-yet undecided, objective factor in deciding who is eligible for AOA -- so there is still that perk for people who excel at the pre-clinical, academic years of med school in addition to the clinical years. But course scores are just one of many factors that play into deciding AOA -- and ultimately, only 15% of the class gets that anyway. The major difference in p/f that will affect the WHOLE class is how our performance will appear on our transcripts.

In terms of class rank - - we're told over and over that there is no such thing at Columbia (not even in the subtle form of word choice in the Dean's letter). Maybe you know something I don't?

 

[drblueshades]

I appreciate the clarification re: AOA--that's definitely a plus. You're absolutely right that non-academic factors are, and should be, a key part of AOA selection.

You are correct that Columbia has no "official" class rank, except for the purposes of AOA, and this is spelled out clearly in the student handbook. I'm not certain how this works for the Dean's Letter, though they may show grade distributions for courses/clerkships. It's also no secret that Columbia keeps records of all test scores for students from first-year onward.

According to an email from Dean Mellman herself: "Scholastic excellence is a key criterion but not the only one for election; capacity for leadership, compassion, and fairness in dealing with one's colleagues are also to be considered. Students who are in the top academic quartile of their class are eligible for election but the number elected may not exceed one-sixth of the graduating class. Candidates must have shown promise of becoming leaders. There is no specific calculation weighting all required criteria, and P&S does not rank students. However, the number of Honors received by the end of the 3rd year is tallied, and students in the upper &#189; of that number will be considered for AOA. History at P&S has shown that at the end of the Third Year the mean number of Honors received from Second and Third Year is 4-5. "

 

[drblueshades]

As another note, I think H/P/F may motivate a segment of the class to learn the material in second year better, and may actually help them to succeed on the Boards. This was one of the initial reasons for preserving honors in second year, actually. Of course, if more people feel like they'd be stressed out and/or constrained in their USMLE studying by H/P/F, then moving to P/F might be better for the class as a whole--and it seems like this is the case for 2011. Your President and Curriculum Reps presented this case very well.

 

[dbhvt]

It's also no secret that Columbia keeps records of all test scores for students from first-year onward.

Dr.shades, watch out, you're going to scare the first years before they even show up for orientation.

To the prospectives, this will all be explained to you when you get here, but let me add a nickel for you now.

1) Prospectives: Yes, first and second year are now BOTH p/f! HOORAY! Be sure to thank your friendly neighborhood second year for that when you get here. If you think you would have a difficult time in a preclinical curriculum without an honors grade, then you should consider that as you make your choice between P&S and the many other fine schools you were admitted to. Really, truly, I'm not being facetious. Duke, Hopkins, Cornell, Pitt, etc. etc. have honors in the preclinical curriculum--unless they've recently changed.

2) First year: One of the basic principles of the administration's approach to first year is this: P&S does not want to advantage or disadvantage students coming into first year with different academic backgrounds. Some of you studied poetry. Some of you studied biochemistry. Some of you haven't studied anything at all for a few years. As part of that philosophy, first year is truly-honest-to-god-not-kidding p/f. Your test scores don't go into your file. There is no ranking, no record, no nothing. Just pass or fail. This was explained to us very explicitly at the beginning of the year, in response to some rumors that were kicking around from the second year class.

3) Second year: Now, as to exactly how the second year pass/fail will look (e.g. whether various organizations that give awards will have access to 2nd year exam scores) the details haven't entirely been hammered out, BUT it has been decided that, for second year, your transcript and your Dean's letter will only say "Pass", and this will be interpreted in the context of a p/f pre-clinical system.

4) Silliness: Regarding AOA and P&S: If you graduate from P&S, you do not need AOA to match into Neurosurgery, Ortho, Plastics, Rads, Urology, the best academic Internal Medicine programs, the best academic General Surgery programs, what have you. Seriously. You can look at the AOA list and look at the match list, and you'll see. 1/2 of those neurosurgery matches aren't AOA. Hell, 1/2 of those HSS ortho matches aren't AOA. Programs that reportedly don't even consider non-AOA candidates have P&S grads that aren't AOA. Please, please, please do not come here sweating whether or not you are going to get AOA. It's just going to a) make you go crazy, b) prevent you from having fun with the rest of your class, or c) turn you into a closet gunner .

5) If you have any questions about this, feel free to pm me. I love this school, though I'm aware it has it's strengths and weaknesses. From my perspective, this whole topic falls under the category of strengths. P&S very explicitly does not rank students. We're one of the few medical schools that doesn't.

 

[dramajunkie]

dienekes 88, thanks for the advice.. I truely hope that they accept me... I sent a letter already, but I'm planning to send one again.. at this point, anybody's advice & encouragement mean alot.. you care enough to answer my question..I hope we meet as classmates..

 

[dienekes88]

2) First year: One of the basic principles of the administration's approach to first year is this: P&S does not want to advantage or disadvantage students coming into first year with different academic backgrounds. Some of you studied poetry. Some of you studied biochemistry. Some of you haven't studied anything at all for a few years. As part of that philosophy, first year is truly-honest-to-god-not-kidding p/f. Your test scores don't go into your file. There is no ranking, no record, no nothing. Just pass or fail. This was explained to us very explicitly at the beginning of the year, in response to some rumors that were kicking around from the second year class.

The italicized section is key. I feel so far removed from science right now.

Lack of grades, lack of competition... I'm looking forward to a collegial environment.

dienekes 88, thanks for the advice.. I truely hope that they accept me... I sent a letter already, but I'm planning to send one again.. at this point, anybody's advice & encouragement mean alot.. you care enough to answer my question..I hope we meet as classmates..

I hope we become classmates too!

 

[notlikethat]

I feel so far removed from science right now.

I do too and I'm still in school! (and a science-ish major)

From meeting current students, Columbia seems to do a good job of letting you have a life outside of science, which is more than i can say about some other places I saw

 

[Didmybest]

I was accepted and Im definitely going, I can't wait to move in come August

 

[dienekes88]

I do too and I'm still in school! (and a science-ish major)

From meeting current students, Columbia seems to do a good job of letting you have a life outside of science, which is more than i can say about some other places I saw

Hahaha. Alright, MudPhuDer. I'm going to be asking you for help on everything.

Well, since we're going to have some free time on our hands, I suggest that everyone start racing bikes. Seriously. Columbia came in 3rd overall in the Ivy League behind Yale (woohoo?! I'm so confused now...) and Dartmouth. That's unacceptable. We're going to have to put together the greatest team that a medical school has ever fielded. It's going to be awesome.

I was accepted and Im definitely going, I can't wait to move in come August

WORD! Did you join our facebook group!?

 

[notlikethat]

Who all will be in NYC this summer? PreColumbia gatherings anyone?

 

[Didmybest]

I haven't joined the facebook group yet, I wasn't sure if there is an official one or just the one when you type in 'columbia college of physicians and surgeons 2012' to find.

I'll be pretty near NYC until June 15 (yea that's early I know).

 

[dienekes88]

Who all will be in NYC this summer? PreColumbia gatherings anyone?

Definitely! I'll be around.

I haven't joined the facebook group yet, I wasn't sure if there is an official one or just the one when you type in 'columbia college of physicians and surgeons 2012' to find.

I'll be pretty near NYC until June 15 (yea that's early I know).

That's the right one.

 

[notlikethat]

Definitely! I'll be around.

I'll be moving up to New York mid-June. Since you live in NYC now, are you just gonna keep your current apt or are you moving to Bard?

 

[dienekes88]

I'll be moving up to New York mid-June. Since you live in NYC now, are you just gonna keep your current apt or are you moving to Bard?

I'm moving to Bard. My current apartment is way too expensive and way too far from school. If I lived down here (almost in Brooklyn)... I'd probably only show up to 1/4 of my classes.

Mid-June... that's right about the time I graduate from culinary school. w00t! I am so ready to graduate... between school and work, I'm really working myself silly. Ugh.

 

[dienekes88]

Hmm... the preColumbia gathering idea hasn't received much attention. Maybe we should post about it on the facebook group wall?

 

[LovelyMD]

Does anyone know when we're supposed to move in, when orientation begins, and when the white-coat ceremony will be held? I can't find my revisit stuff so I don't remember if they gave us this info.

 

[dbhvt]

Does anyone know when we're supposed to move in, when orientation begins, and when the white-coat ceremony will be held? I can't find my revisit stuff so I don't remember if they gave us this info.

Orientation is August 18-22. The White Coat Ceremony is on that Friday (8/22). Class starts Monday 8/25. Move-in dates will probably begin the weekend before orientation, but I'm not sure about that. I'm pretty sure they haven't sent out housing information.

 

[Ooch]

Orientation is August 18-22. The White Coat Ceremony is on that Friday (8/22). Class starts Monday 8/25. Move-in dates will probably begin the weekend before orientation, but I'm not sure about that. I'm pretty sure they haven't sent out housing information.

I called the housing office and they said we could move in the weekend before orientation (so Aug 16/17).

 

[dienekes88]

Sweeeet. I'm looking forward to being right next to the bridge. At the moment, I have to ride for about an hour to get to New Jersey.

What happens during orientation? Some of my culinary school friends have their graduation on the 18th, and I kinda wanted to go...

 

[dbhvt]

Sweeeet. I'm looking forward to being right next to the bridge. At the moment, I have to ride for about an hour to get to New Jersey.

What happens during orientation? Some of my culinary school friends have their graduation on the 18th, and I kinda wanted to go...

Last year Monday involved meeting your orientation group, getting welcomed by the Deans, a BBQ up here in the Heights, followed by a night downtown. That's basically what the schedule looked like the year before as well. If you're a social person, I'd recommend being around for as much of that as you can.

 

[955thebeat]

oh the orientation sounds like fun

however, they haven't sent out financial aid packages yet (did people get them at second look?). i just called, and the office said sometime later this week the packages will be mailed. i've heard that columbia is a bureaucratic nightmare, but this is kind of ridiculous...since people have to make decisions about where to go by next week and it takes a couple of days for me to get any mail from them. sorry. rant.

 

[Ooch]

If you call and email, they will give you the rough numbers in email and over the phone. But yes, I agree. As totally stoked as I am for P&S (if the money falls into place) this is crazy freaking late. That being said, I haven't gotten anything from my other schools yet either. So I'm lead to believe this whole system is, what's known in the biz as, a 'clusterf*ck.'

 

[MacBook Pro]

Does P&S have taped lectures available online? Are slides and notes also made available? Any other interesting online resources for classes/tests?

 

[dienekes88]

Does P&S have taped lectures available online? Are slides and notes also made available? Any other interesting online resources for classes/tests?

Yep.

another 1st year P & Ser here. just wanted to add my voice about the technology thing, because i got the same impression on my interview here last year (that they were nonexistent). i was pleased to find when i came here that my impression was way off.

they're actually QUITE good. all the lectures are recorded, and some pertinent ones (such as neuroanatomy) are videotaped. there are some phenomenal online atlases for histology, anatomy and neuroanatomy designed by our instructors here and made specifically for columbia students that the whole class relies on. old exams are posted for us to use to study. in our physiology course, not only are the lectures recorded, but the lecturers will also sit down and record a 20 minute, truncated lecture timed with the slides going over the most important information from each slide.

in addition, before every exam block, the 2nd years hold study sessions for the 1st years to review all the lectures and provide us with an indispensable study packet to help guide our pre-exam study efforts. it's really remarkable.

our physiology instructor has also designed his own online simulators for renal, cardio, and pulmonary, which i have secretly provided to students at other med schools because they are so useful. he also will frequently host "online office hours" from his home where he'll go over the simulators via online conferencing with us and answer any questions we may have. we also do that interactive clicky thing during many lectures to keep us active and awake.

also -- there is now wireless in bard.

so yeah, don't let the seeming lack of technology spook you. as pjl said, there is more than enough provided to allow us to succeed. and if you take advantage of them you will have no problem succeeding.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=6356973&postcount=713

 

[LuoYing]

Dienekes, it's pretty adorable how excited you are about Columbia -- not that I am any less delighted, now that I've found a way to finance it and can now say for sure that I'm going. 2012 is going to be a fun class.

 

[LovelyMD]

Dienekes, it's pretty adorable how excited you are about Columbia -- not that I am any less delighted, now that I've found a way to finance it and can now say for sure that I'm going. 2012 is going to be a fun class.

Did you get your financial aid in the mail? Actually, has anyone received their financial aid package yet?

 

[LuoYing]

Did you get your financial aid in the mail? Actually, has anyone received their financial aid package yet?

No, but I met with Financial Aid at revisit and was told (ironically) that I would get no financial aid. Since that's the way it's going, I'm getting better-priced loans from a family member.

 

[Runner585]

Did you get your financial aid in the mail? Actually, has anyone received their financial aid package yet?

The financial aid office said they sent them out yesterday.

 

[Ooch]

The financial aid office said they sent them out yesterday. Mine appeared on my student services website yesterday, and I immediately called the financial aid office since I received absolutely no aid. All I'm getting are subsidized and unsubsidized federal stafford loans which is really depressing. I didn't even qualify for the unit loan package which I was under the impression that everyone got. My parents don't want to pay for my medical school so I really don't know what to do cause Columbia is my first choice. My financial aid officer was very nice but didn't seem to think there was a way for me to get more aid...she basically just explained to me the loans I can take out (which are pretty high interest and most are unsubsidized). Sigh. I don't know how they can expect anyone to pay $64,000 a year for medical school.

Are you a Columbia student presently? Or is there some way that we can all access our student services website?

I hear you on the loans. It's just stupefying. And GradPlus loans at 8.5% while Prime is 5%! Luckily, we'll be in New York and we can all find financiers to marry us

 

[Runner585]

Are you a Columbia student presently? Or is there some way that we can all access our student services website?

I hear you on the loans. It's just stupefying. And GradPlus loans at 8.5% while Prime is 5%! Luckily, we'll be in New York and we can all find financiers to marry us

I went to Columbia for undergrad and still have access to my student services website. And we're definitely going to have to marry someone working in finance after all of these loans!

 

[iatrogenic7]

The financial aid office said they sent them out yesterday. Mine appeared on my student services website yesterday, and I immediately called the financial aid office since I received absolutely no aid. All I'm getting are subsidized and unsubsidized federal stafford loans which is really depressing. I didn't even qualify for the unit loan package which I was under the impression that everyone got. My parents don't want to pay for my medical school so I really don't know what to do cause Columbia is my first choice. My financial aid officer was very nice but didn't seem to think there was a way for me to get more aid...she basically just explained to me the loans I can take out (which are pretty high interest and most are unsubsidized). Sigh. I don't know how they can expect anyone to pay $64,000 a year for medical school.

Are your parents' income in >$200,000 range?

 

[QTCL13]

Got my financial aid package in the mail today and I am less than impressed.

 

[dienekes88]

Got my financial aid package in the mail today and I am less than impressed.

Well, mine wasn't exactly good either.

However, I am pretty sure I will be happy at P&S. That's the part that matters to me.

 

[QTCL13]

Well, mine wasn't exactly good either.

However, I am pretty sure I will be happy at P&S. That's the part that matters to me.

Same here. The initial shock was a bit much but I figure if I'm going to be poor, I might as well be poor and happy!

 

[dienekes88]

I went to Columbia for undergrad and still have access to my student services website. And we're definitely going to have to marry someone working in finance after all of these loans!

Hahaha.

I actually plan on getting close to one of the law students. That way I can save money on MTA fares used to get downtown to meet women in finance.

 

[notlikethat]

Hahaha.

I actually plan on getting close to one of the law students. That way I can save money on MTA fares used to get downtown to meet women in finance.

My school sends lots of people to do finance in NYC.. maybe i should start up a dating service

 

[miso]

Does anyone know if a mac is less compatible than a pc for Columbia, or if they are equally supported?

 

[notlikethat]

Does anyone know if a mac is less compatible than a pc for Columbia, or if they are equally supported?

I remember reading that either should work, the only real requirement is wireless internet.

 

[Runner585]

Does anyone know if we need to send in any sort of deposit since it's almost May 15th?

 

[miso]

I just checked with admissions-they said no.

 

[notlikethat]

Whats the deal with final transcripts? What do we send in where?

 

[dienekes88]

Whats the deal with final transcripts? What do we send in where?

Huh? Do we have to send in final transcripts?

I'm not sure what the deal is...

 

[notlikethat]

Maybe you dont since you have been out of school for a year and they have your final transcript already (unless you want to send them your culinary institute one ). But I am pretty sure they want to make sure I didn't fail all my classes this last semester.

 

[dbhvt]

I remember reading that either should work, the only real requirement is wireless internet.

Yep. P&S is officially pc/mac neutral. We also have an institutional license for Virtual Box. So for those of you who have intel macs, you can run both PC and Mac programs.

 

[SBBunny]

I just got in off of the waitlist today (yes, Sunday) and will be joining you all at Columbia in the fall .

I'm in New York City, so if there's going to be any pre-orientation meetups, I'm game.

Oh, and for those who want to get "close" with the grad students down in Morningside Heights (main campus)- there's a free shuttle from the medical center to the main campus. Shuttle --> "Love bus" (for you law student spouse hopefuls)

Also- if you're buying a computer, Columbia University has deals with Apple and Dell (see tech services for details). So, both PCs and Macs are fine (I mean, why would Columbia have a deal with Apple if Macs weren't okay?) and Columbia Medical Students can get some discount prices! YAY!

 

[Runner585]

Congrats SBBunny!!!

I just got in off of the waitlist today (yes, Sunday) and will be joining you all at Columbia in the fall .

I'm in New York City, so if there's going to be any pre-orientation meetups, I'm game.

Oh, and for those who want to get "close" with the grad students down in Morningside Heights (main campus)- there's a free shuttle from the medical center to the main campus. Shuttle --> "Love bus" (for you law student spouse hopefuls)

Also- if you're buying a computer, Columbia University has deals with Apple and Dell (see tech services for details). So, both PCs and Macs are fine (I mean, why would Columbia have a deal with Apple if Macs weren't okay?) and Columbia Medical Students can get some discount prices! YAY!

 

[SBBunny]

Hey guys! I just checked out the Facebook group and saw that people have already received their Bard room assignments... Am I too late to get a room in Bard ? Housing's guaranteed, right?