Cleveland Clinic Lerner College of Medicine

[SmokeyBear]

Hey guys! Just wondering who my classmates are for this year

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[robh]

Hey guys! Just wondering who my classmates are for this year

Im in the university program, not the college program. I'm wondering though, are you guys going to take classes with the university program? What's your research interest? Congratulations on your acceptance. I'm sure I'll see you around in the fall.

 

[Daichi Katase]

wat up smokey. I shall be your classmate.

 

[Ashanti Rock]

I got my acceptance call, but right now I'm really torn and have a few more interviews coming up, so I guess only time will tell! But congrats to all!

 

[autoimmunity]

Hey fellow CCLCM peeps. I too will be joining you guys. I'm looking forward to second look to meet all of you and get a better feel for Cleveland!

 

[Daichi Katase]

any info on second look?

 

[Ashanti Rock]

any info on second look?

No info on second look for me yet, but have any of you guys gotten additional mail info other than the letter that holds your spot?

 

[QofQuimica]

Second look for CCLCM is on Mar. 23-24.

College students do not take courses w/ University students, except for one morning per week when they get together for the clinical practice classes.

 

[Daichi Katase]

bump

 

[exmike]

Second look for CCLCM is on Mar. 23-24.

College students do not take courses w/ University students, except for one morning per week when they get together for the clinical practice classes.

As far i know, we will be rotating together through the three main hospitals

 

[QofQuimica]

As far i know, we will be rotating together through the three main hospitals

That's true. Sorry for the confusion; I was talking about the pre-clinical years. The pre-clinical classes are separate, but the rotations are mixed.

 

[bsteves4]

hi guys and gals,

i was wondering, if second look weekend is mar23-24, and people say that most acceptances are not sent out until around april 15, how do they even have a 2nd look that early?

also does anyone know how admissions actually works? i.e. how often they meet, if you get passed over at one meeting do you get moved to a hold category or get continually reviewed at each meeting, etc.? thanks!

 

[.edu-MD]

As far i know, we will be rotating together through the three main hospitals

Of the four they consider "partners", which are they considering the three main systems?

From http://casemed.case.edu/admissions/medicine_f.htm:

UH
Cleveland Clinic
Stokes VA
MetroHealth

And does anyone know if those rotations will be at the main sites or satellite hospitals? For example, the UH system appears to have maybe a dozen hospitals throughout the metro area (http://www.uhhs.com/DisplayContent.aspx?PageID=101). Similarly, Cleveland Clinic (http://www.cchs.net/about/) and MetroHealth (though their satellite campuses look more like urgent care, or maybe not quite, type clinics). While I wouldn't mind going to one of their community hospitals or OP clinics for FM (and would expect this), I would prefer my IP med, for example, to be at their main sites downtown.


EDIT: Added links.

 

[ziggy123]

hi guys and gals,

i was wondering, if second look weekend is mar23-24, and people say that most acceptances are not sent out until around april 15, how do they even have a 2nd look that early?

also does anyone know how admissions actually works? i.e. how often they meet, if you get passed over at one meeting do you get moved to a hold category or get continually reviewed at each meeting, etc.? thanks!

I was also wondering about admissions...i interviewed there during the first week of jan and loved it..i called to check on my app but there's been no decision made even though they had a adcom meeting on jan 19th and I know they have the next one feb 2nd..also, are all acceptances given phone calls or is it through snail mail? Thanks so much and congrats to all of you who have been accepted!

 

[exmike]

Of the four they consider "partners", which are they considering the three main systems?

From http://casemed.case.edu/admissions/medicine_f.htm:

UH
Cleveland Clinic
Stokes VA
MetroHealth

And does anyone know if those rotations will be at the main sites or satellite hospitals? For example, the UH system appears to have maybe a dozen hospitals throughout the metro area (http://www.uhhs.com/DisplayContent.aspx?PageID=101). Similarly, Cleveland Clinic (http://www.cchs.net/about/) and MetroHealth (though their satellite campuses look more like urgent care, or maybe not quite, type clinics). While I wouldn't mind going to one of their community hospitals or OP clinics for FM (and would expect this), I would prefer my IP med, for example, to be at their main sites downtown.


EDIT: Added links.

The 'main' ones are Metro, UH, and Cleveland Clinic. I do know that for family practice you may be placed in a satellite clinic for obvious reasons.

 

[QofQuimica]

I was also wondering about admissions...i interviewed there during the first week of jan and loved it..i called to check on my app but there's been no decision made even though they had a adcom meeting on jan 19th and I know they have the next one feb 2nd..also, are all acceptances given phone calls or is it through snail mail? Thanks so much and congrats to all of you who have been accepted!

Acceptances come by phone call and then mail.

I never heard that most acceptances get given out around April 15. That wouldn't make sense since it's after the second look like bsteve said. Plus there are several people on SDN alone who have been accepted already. I wonder if what they meant is that people who get in off the waitlist get in after April 15?

 

[bsteves4]

Acceptances come by phone call and then mail.

I never heard that most acceptances get given out around April 15. That wouldn't make sense since it's after the second look like bsteve said. Plus there are several people on SDN alone who have been accepted already. I wonder if what they meant is that people who get in off the waitlist get in after April 15?

Maybe thats true, i dunno, somehwere i thought i remember them saying that before april 15 they wont even have accepted 32 yet, but maybe that was an exaggeration. i was also wondering once you go in front of admissions and are not accepted, do you just go on hold and get looked at again only after everyone else is looked at, or is it a more continuous process, like where the student is continually evaluated at each adcom meeting until there is a final decision.. thanks!!!

 

[QofQuimica]

i was also wondering once you go in front of admissions and are not accepted, do you just go on hold and get looked at again only after everyone else is looked at, or is it a more continuous process, like where the student is continually evaluated at each adcom meeting until there is a final decision.. thanks!!!

Sorry, I don't know the answer to that. Have you tried asking the admissions office?

 

[bsteves4]

bump

 

[Saluki]

So, if I'm remembering correctly what Dr.Franco said, the adcom meets today and the earliest we could hear is the ninth... Anyone else want to confirm that?

 

[ziggy123]

yea they are definitely meeting today..not sure about the second part though (hearing back only on the 9th or after)

 

[QofQuimica]

Good to everyone waiting.

 

[tree_monkey]

does anyone know about when we are supposed to get financial aid award letters?

also, it looks like the Case and CCLCM 2nd look weekends overlap . . . I wonder if we can make it work to go to both?

 

[QofQuimica]

does anyone know about when we are supposed to get financial aid award letters?

also, it looks like the Case and CCLCM 2nd look weekends overlap . . . I wonder if we can make it work to go to both?

I asked Dr. Franco about that, and she said that they were finishing up with interviews now, but the financial aid packages would start going out soon.

I noticed that the second look weekends coincided too, but I'm not sure how that will work for people wanting to attend both of them....you may want to call Case and ask. I decided not to attend both second looks, so that's another way to solve the problem.

 

[Daichi Katase]

Second look for CCLCM is on Thursday/Friday. For Case it is on Friday/Saturday Sunday.

Who should I expect to see on Thursday?

-Daichi

 

[bsteves4]

hi guys,

so yea i found out that most acceptances dont actually come out til april 15. basically what i understood is that the select few of you that already have acceptances are those that they want but theres a good chance that many of you pick other schools. since many of those schools wont give final decisions til april 15, thats when cclcm starts to find out how many more spots they have to give out. it just seems a little odd to me that 2nd look seems to happen before a majority (i assume) of the class has even been accepted.

 

[Saluki]

MDapplicants lists eleven acceptances this year, and a lot of people don't post on there. I think they probably will have accepted at least their class size by second look weekend, just not many over that since the class size is so small...

 

[ziggy123]

MDapplicants lists eleven acceptances this year, and a lot of people don't post on there. I think they probably will have accepted at least their class size by second look weekend, just not many over that since the class size is so small...

yes, but in the hold letter they send out they said that they would not be accepting their full class size by then..
also, do you know if they reject people post interview or if everyone goes into hold?
Thanks!

 

[gcomplex7]

Second look for CCLCM is on Thursday/Friday. For Case it is on Friday/Saturday Sunday.

Who should I expect to see on Thursday?

-Daichi

Hi,
I will see you on thursday.

 

[QofQuimica]

hi guys,

so yea i found out that most acceptances dont actually come out til april 15. basically what i understood is that the select few of you that already have acceptances are those that they want but theres a good chance that many of you pick other schools. since many of those schools wont give final decisions til april 15, thats when cclcm starts to find out how many more spots they have to give out. it just seems a little odd to me that 2nd look seems to happen before a majority (i assume) of the class has even been accepted.

I don't understand how the majority of the class hasn't already been accepted. I don't think that can possibly be true. It seems like we practically have a full class of accepted people here on SDN alone. Also, I think that some schools allow waitlisted people to attend the second look. Maybe CC does this?

 

[Daichi Katase]

Hi,
I will see you on thursday.

rad.

 

[bsteves4]

I don't understand how the majority of the class hasn't already been accepted. I don't think that can possibly be true. It seems like we practically have a full class of accepted people here on SDN alone. Also, I think that some schools allow waitlisted people to attend the second look. Maybe CC does this?

hi q

if cc lets waitlisted people attend second look then i am totally crashing y'alls party.

 

[QofQuimica]

hi q

if cc lets waitlisted people attend second look then i am totally crashing y'alls party.

Well, if you're really interested in the school, it can't hurt to ask, right? If you do ask, will you post what you find out here for everyone else who's waitlisted?

 

[UNC-or-BUST]

Well, if you're really interested in the school, it can't hurt to ask, right? If you do ask, will you post what you find out here for everyone else who's waitlisted?

Thats a joke, they have held most of the interview people, I doubt they would let them attend second look weekend. These events are show offs where they attempt to maintain their current class by throwing the cash around. There cannot be enough spots for hold people, no way.

I bet there will be a nice turnover come April, too many multi acceptance people for the class to be set.

 

[QofQuimica]

Thats a joke, they have held most of the interview people, I doubt they would let them attend second look weekend. These events are show offs where they attempt to maintain their current class by throwing the cash around. There cannot be enough spots for hold people, no way.

I bet there will be a nice turnover come April, too many multi acceptance people for the class to be set.

Most if not all schools hold (or waitlist, or whatever they want to call it) the vast majority of people that they interview. You may be right that CC will not permit people who are on the hold list to attend the second look. But, you may not be right. For example, CC may permit the holdees to attend if they pay for the trip themselves. We're all simply speculating here, you and me both. Until someone asks them, we won't know for sure one way or the other.

 

[QofQuimica]

Just wanted to let you all know that I asked the school, and unfortunately holdees cannot attend the second look weekend. They did not tell me anything about how many people have been accepted so far.

 

[BrownTheDoc]

I just spoke to one of my good friends today from Cleveland whose father is a pediatric neurosurgeon at Case. His best friend is also the son of Dr. Eric Topol, who is arguably the word’s best cardiologist and just left/was forced to leave the Cleveland Clinic. He really recommended against the program considering the recent ethical issues concerning some of the practices at the hospital. He also told me that there are rumors that the hospital in on the verge of "implosion" due to some other controversies.

Dr. Topol was the Chief Academic Office and Provost of CCLCM, but he was stripped of these positions due to his research concerning the effects of Vioxx on the heart. Topol played a key role in establishing the CCLCM.

Topol was poised to publish a study in JAMA about the harmful effects of Vioxx, but was pressured not to publish because of the CC's corporate ties. The CEO of Merck, Raymond Gilmartin, went to Harvard Business School with the chairman of the Cleveland Clinic, Malachi Mixon, and after Topol testified in Vioxx court case he was stripped of appointments as Chief Academic Office and Provost of CCLCM. Apparently, the Merck CEO called Mal Mixon and told him to get rid of Topol because of his work on Vioxx.

There have been other troubling stories in the WSJ about the Cleveland Clinic's ties to corporations, and I think it is something people considering the CCLCM should know about, especially since Dr. Topol, the architect of the Lerner program, was just a few days ago.

I was really excited about the program, but this really changes a lot for me, and I think it is important to let others know who are considering the program.

Here are the links to 3 articles that sum up the situation pretty well:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5039151

http://www.forbes.com/business/2006/02/09/topol-cleveland-clininc-cx_mh_0209topol.html

http://hcrenewal.blogspot.com/2005/12/topol-merck-cleveland-clinic-case-gets.html

 

[QofQuimica]

Just to play devil's advocate here:

1) Topol has had some questionable ties to industry himself, ironically involving Merck. He was an advisor to a hedge fund company called Great Point Partners that shorted Merck stock (essentially betting that the stock was going to go down), at the same time that he was so busy publically criticizing Vioxx (thereby making the stock go down). He ended up resigning from the advisory board, because it looked like he had a conflict of interest (i.e., he'd criticize Vioxx, the Merck stock would go down, and therefore the hedge fund and presumably he, would earn money on it). Topol did say in a written statement that he never benefitted personally from the hedge fund, and he quit advising them in order to avoid having his own conflicts of interest.

The original Fortune article: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2004/12/13/8214229/index.htm
Another article, more recent: http://www.canaan.com/releases/2005/050313_medicine.htm
Topol's response to the Fortune article: http://www.forbes.com/2004/12/01/cx_mh_1201topol_print.html

2) What the heck does any of this have to do with the medical school??? And, do you really think that any other medical school in this country is so "pure" in its dealings with big business?

There are many good rationales not to attend CCLCM if it's not the right school for you for whatever reason. But I don't think that this is one of them.

 

[gcomplex7]

I just spoke to one of my good friends today from Cleveland whose father is a pediatric neurosurgeon at Case. His best friend is also the son of Dr. Eric Topol, who is arguably the word’s best cardiologist and just left/was forced to leave the Cleveland Clinic. He really recommended against the program considering the recent ethical issues concerning some of the practices at the hospital. He also told me that there are rumors that the hospital in on the verge of "implosion" due to some other controversies.

hi.
So the point is he helped design the program now recommends against it b/cos of hospital's practices.
I don't know much but that is hardly a flaw in the program.
How exactly is the hospital on the verge of "implosion" anyway?
I appreciate the heads up though.

 

[Saluki]

I really doubt the 4th ranked hospital in the country is on the verge of implosion. Does anyone remember the huge scandal about the gift to Yale that was taken back? It was a big to-do, but in the end, Yale is still Yale and they're doing fine. Granted Yale has a much longer history, but Cleveland Clinic has many prestigious physicians in a number of specialties. I doubt that a bit of politics and disagreement will do much to shake its reputation. Besides highly ranked academics and physicians often have big egos and tend to get ruffled easily. I think that if you look at programs across the country you'll find similar incidents...

 

[QofQuimica]

Just so that everyone understands where I'm coming from, I have at least three problems with Brown's post:

1) S/he is not "in the know" or "on the inside," so to speak. Where does this so-called inside information come from? From a friend's friend's father who "heard rumors." Or something.

2) The post comes across like a polemical rant, not an effort to inform. The title is inflammatory and unbalanced. Things that the CC doesn't want me to know??? Give me a break. This info about Topol leaving has been all over the news for weeks. It's hardly a secret. The post is one-sided and incomplete. Dr. Topol is no doubt a very intelligent, basically good person. But he's not some little guy outsider being victimized by the Cleveland Clinic. *He* was until very recently one of the Clinic bigwig insiders and administrators himself! And, as I already pointed out, he has some questionable ethical issues of his own.

3) I still have no answer to my question: what does any of this have to do with the CCLCM? They didn't fire Topol and get someone else to take his place. His positions at CCLCM were eliminated altogether. How do we know the real reason that the school restructured their administration? We don't.

We are all old enough and intelligent enough to understand that every story has multiple sides. Words get twisted, people's explanations are self-serving, and memories are selective. Egos get bruised, money changes people's loyalties, and people have fallings-out that are personal as well as professional. Are there corporate ethics problems at the Cleveland Clinic? None of us knows the half of it. You're talking about some major, major bucks. And it's not just at CC; biomedical industries abound nationwide. Today it's CC in the news. Tomorrow it will be somewhere else. These guys are ALL in bed with big business, and it's incredibly naive to think that any of them are pure altruists with nothing but the public interest at heart (pun intended).

There are lots of very good reasons to reconsider attending CCLCM. These include that the school is new and has an unusual curriculum, the program is unproven, it's five years instead of just four, you realize that you need more structure than CCLCM provides, you don't want to spend a year doing research, you don't like how small the school is, you don't like the city of Cleveland, your spouse can't get a job there, you don't like PBL, it's too far away from your family, it's too expensive, you're concerned that you will have trouble getting into a residency from there, etc. Note that those are all reasons that directly pertain to you as a MEDICAL STUDENT.

 

[UNC-or-BUST]

Note that those are all reasons that directly pertain to you as a MEDICAL STUDENT.

I agree, but...Brown makes a good point to question where this leaves a new program. UCI lost a lot from their scandals, ranking and research wise. This is a medical student issue but CCLCM is too strong for this to hurt too bad. Besides the faculty are my reason for choosing CCLCM, so as long as they are there I'll be excited.

Brown thanks for the info

 

[exmike]

One doctor doesnt a medical school make.

Topol, while a preeminent cardiologist, is just one doctor. Dr. Cosgrove and Dr. Nissen are also world renowned authorities in cardiothoracic surgery and cardiology respectively. I don't see why the departure of Topol (to Case Western, mind you) makes much of a difference.

Should people not to go Hopkins b/c Agre (nobel prize/aquaporin dude) jumped ship to Duke? There is shifting of top academics all the time, for all sorts of reasons.

Also, if you're worried about the hospital's rep. What about the other 14 nationally ranked programs. How on earth are they even remotely affected by topol's departure?

Don't forget that in the end your medical degree is granted by Case, so the academic program at the Clinic is sound and secure. Not to mention that it has the $100 million backing of Lerner.

 

[UNC-or-BUST]

"I'm not going to be a gunner, I'm going to be a bomber"
In nam the best snipers only got ~50 kills, bombers are expected to have done 2/3 of the damage. Historical perspective.
Your 100% correct, infact your correctness reaches the almost above 100% relm. ERON is still a trading company and even though the top CEOs left and scandals.

 

[JDWflash44]

I interviewed at the clinic on monday and CWRU on tuesday and I really LOVED the clinic. Although i'm sure this has been talked about, it also seems like CWRU is changing their curriculum to mirror the clinics, somewhat at least. An FYI for people waiting to hear, we were the last group of interviewees and the committee is meeting tomorrow (thursday). So i'm assuming people should hear something soon. Hope this helps and to everyone waiting to hear.

Jim

 

[soccerdude]

I interviewed at the clinic on monday and CWRU on tuesday and I really LOVED the clinic. Although i'm sure this has been talked about, it also seems like CWRU is changing their curriculum to mirror the clinics, somewhat at least. An FYI for people waiting to hear, we were the last group of interviewees and the committee is meeting tomorrow (thursday). So i'm assuming people should hear something soon. Hope this helps and to everyone waiting to hear.

Jim

Hey, were you the last group of interviewees at CWRU or at CC?

 

[JDWflash44]

Hey, were you the last group of interviewees at CWRU or at CC?

We were the last group at the clinic, case finishes next week.

Jim

 

[QofQuimica]

I interviewed at the clinic on monday and CWRU on tuesday and I really LOVED the clinic. Although i'm sure this has been talked about, it also seems like CWRU is changing their curriculum to mirror the clinics, somewhat at least. An FYI for people waiting to hear, we were the last group of interviewees and the committee is meeting tomorrow (thursday). So i'm assuming people should hear something soon. Hope this helps and to everyone waiting to hear.

Jim

Good luck to you, Jim.

 

[gcomplex7]

Good luck to you, Jim.

Yeah, Goodluck Jim, and everyone waiting to hear.

 

[khalad]

If I go to CCLCM, would I have a better chance of getting residencies at the Cleveland Clinic??

Sorry I don't know much about how residency works.