Career fair last Friday was abysmal.

[Caverject]

Is IHS easy to get on? I wouldn't think so.

IHS has jobs available right now. The problem is it takes quite a while to get on with all the paperwork. (6-9 months)

Post 101 btw-

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Caverject]

No one should join the military unless they are ready to go anywhere, at any time.

Even the reserves. My boss at the VA has, in the four years I've known him, been deployed more than he has been at our hospital. That includes a trip to Iraq. For that last 14 months he's been filling a position at an Army base outside of DC. He's married and has kids. They just deal with it. He's in the reserves.

Another friend (an MD) has been to Iraq twice since I've known him and on a humanitarian mission to Central America.

Join the military if you are willing to serve and make sacrifices for our country. Join for any other reason and you'll likely be disgruntled.

Great advice indeed!

 

[Its Z]

Post 101 btw-

No..not post 101. It's "Page 3"


dummy..

 

[Quiksilver]

See I have this dilemma going on in my mind. With the job market right now, things are rough. Whats going to happen in 2 years? Is the job market going to be worse? How should one justify doing a residency when in 2 years there are going to be less jobs?

Thats my problem with doing a residency. Theres just no guarantee that things will be better despite being more qualified.

 

[Somatic]

I think rather than spending 2 years doing a residency with no guarantees of jobs, a better option would be to go to PA school. It's only 2 years and you can prescribe and have provider status. The job market will only get worse, much worse. There's no way the job market is getting better anytime soon, maybe never.

 

[Praziquantel86]

I think rather than spending 2 years doing a residency with no guarantees of jobs, a better option would be to go to PA school. It's only 2 years and you can prescribe and have provider status. The job market will only get worse, much worse. There's no way the job market is getting better anytime soon, maybe never.

What about those of us who actually want to be a pharmacist? If I had wanted to become a PA, then that's what I would have done.

A pharmacist is not a PA without prescribing rights.

 

[Quiksilver]

What about those of us who actually want to be a pharmacist? If I had wanted to become a PA, then that's what I would have done.

A pharmacist is not a PA without prescribing rights.

You beat me to it.

Not to mention that that is 2 more years of tuition.

 

[p-rog]

See I have this dilemma going on in my mind. With the job market right now, things are rough. Whats going to happen in 2 years? Is the job market going to be worse? How should one justify doing a residency when in 2 years there are going to be less jobs?

Thats my problem with doing a residency. Theres just no guarantee that things will be better despite being more qualified.

I've had the same dilemma in my mind for the past 6 months. yes you are obviously more qualified, but now there are even more grads from those several schools that have yet to still graduate their first class which is going to make the market even tighter. It seems to me, after doing a residency or fellowship, the best you can hope for is to break even in terms of your competitiveness in the current job market, yet you will lose another year or two of your time and money in training.

I'll probably still do it though...I really think I would go postal after working in retail for a couple more years.

 

[spacecowgirl]

I must live in a pharmacy utopia. If not for SDN, I wouldn't know that jobs are as scarce as they are because there are still jobs here. I will say, they are not entry level, new grad jobs. They are 3-5 years experience, PGY1, BCPS types of jobs.

 

[owlegrad]

I must live in a pharmacy utopia. If not for SDN, I wouldn't know that jobs are as scarce as they are because there are still jobs here. I will say, they are not entry level, new grad jobs. They are 3-5 years experience, PGY1, BCPS types of jobs.

I know what you mean.

Say did you do anything good for your 1000th post? I blew mine on a stupid morally ambiguous post.

 

[spacecowgirl]

But end game is that the patient will see that as a waste of their time and you as being ineffective in their healthcare.

But you may say that through MTM you will educate rather than do medication interventions. Fine, but if I had a dollar for every time I tried to educate someone why a generic over the counter drug would be cheaper and just as effective and yet they buy the name brand any way...Patients don't care to be educated about their chronic conditions until they become life threatening imo.

I disagree with some of your post. I have been providing MTM for 3 years and while I have worked a majority of that time under CPAs/CCAs, which I think make MTM work optimally, they not absolutely necessary. I have worked in billing situations and situations where I do not bill. Sometimes you have a LOL (little old lady) that just wants to talk about why she needs 4 BP meds or why she can't pee or can't stop peeing. Or a patient who is just confused about what to take when and they keep all their pills together in a dixie cup and you can help them sort out their regimen. Nothing is needed on the part of the prescriber. Sometimes you're acting as a care coordinator - I see you haven't had your A1c checked recently or you're due for a lipid panel or an eye exam kind of stuff.

A lot of people just want a healthcare provider to really listen to their concerns. Doctors simply don't have the time with back-to-back 15 minute appts all day and then dictations. You will find out a lot of things their doctor never does because patients aren't afraid to tell you they never take their diuretic because they can't make it to the bathroom or they can't afford their Plavix because they are in the doughnut hole. Patients, especially older ones, don't want to displease their doctors by being non-adherent. But they will be pretty honest with you. I can't always fix their problems but a lot of times the patient feels better that they voiced their concerns and got some education as to the rationale behind their therapy.

There will be people who are like talking to brick walls, there always are, but my experience is that patients really like MTM. My employer isn't going to make bank from what I can bill, no doubt about it. Sustainability is a major flaw of MTM right now, absolutely. I think with healthcare reform and the medical home model, the value of MTM will become clearer. I'm shocked at at how many people fall through our current system's cracks and we're one more point of contact for those people.

I'm not all super rah-rah MTM is my life; it's a very small part of what I do now but I don't think it's a totally unrealizable dream. I would hate to do MTM full-time because I have job ADD. I know pharmacy schools are shoving it down your throats and you have people telling you it will never work in the real world. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

JME/JMO

 

[spacecowgirl]

Say did you do anything good for your 1000th post? I blew mine on a stupid morally ambiguous post.

I don't think so. I had performance anxiety about it and then I just wanted it to be over so I think posted in pre-pharm or something where it would sound insightful just because I'm further along in my career path.

 

[owlegrad]

I don't think so. I had performance anxiety about it and then I just wanted it to be over so I think posted in pre-pharm or something where it would sound insightful just because I'm further along in my career path.

Yeah, I know the feeling. Don't sweat it, happens to the best of us.

 

[HaloKing]

where have you worked as an intern or tech and do you have a job now?

You mean we are suppose to get a job from networking and not SDN online forum.. i'm sooo confused!!

 

[Grizaholic17]

Not one graduating P4 in Montana leaves school without at least one offer. I have never heard of a case where someone has an issue finding a job.

I'm personally going into residency...which I believe is a bit of a more elite group. The idea of more "learning" to some pharmd's is unappealing...i love it! haha

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Not one graduating P4 in Montana leaves school without at least one offer.

That's Montana. One school in 50 billion miles...enjoy it while it lasts out in BFE.

 

[Naidim]

With all due respect for your previous USMC service, you obviously have no idea what your talking about when it comes to military medicine. Perhaps you would be best served by checking a couple threads in the pharmacy forum before you start sharing your opinion about something that you don't know about.

Thank you for your insightful advice. Maybe you know my experience more than I do and would like to elaborate a little rather than belittle more?

 

[Caverject]

Thank you for your insightful advice. Maybe you know my experience more than I do and would like to elaborate a little rather than belittle more?

You're welcome for my insightful advice.

Part of my advice was to check out a few threads on military pharmacy. I, as well as a few other military pharmacists including one that is a former Marine, have elaborated many times about it.

 

[joetrisman]

I disagree with some of your post. I have been providing MTM for 3 years and while I have worked a majority of that time under CPAs/CCAs, which I think make MTM work optimally, they not absolutely necessary. I have worked in billing situations and situations where I do not bill. Sometimes you have a LOL (little old lady) that just wants to talk about why she needs 4 BP meds or why she can't pee or can't stop peeing. Or a patient who is just confused about what to take when and they keep all their pills together in a dixie cup and you can help them sort out their regimen. Nothing is needed on the part of the prescriber. Sometimes you're acting as a care coordinator - I see you haven't had your A1c checked recently or you're due for a lipid panel or an eye exam kind of stuff.

A lot of people just want a healthcare provider to really listen to their concerns. Doctors simply don't have the time with back-to-back 15 minute appts all day and then dictations. You will find out a lot of things their doctor never does because patients aren't afraid to tell you they never take their diuretic because they can't make it to the bathroom or they can't afford their Plavix because they are in the doughnut hole. Patients, especially older ones, don't want to displease their doctors by being non-adherent. But they will be pretty honest with you. I can't always fix their problems but a lot of times the patient feels better that they voiced their concerns and got some education as to the rationale behind their therapy.

There will be people who are like talking to brick walls, there always are, but my experience is that patients really like MTM. My employer isn't going to make bank from what I can bill, no doubt about it. Sustainability is a major flaw of MTM right now, absolutely. I think with healthcare reform and the medical home model, the value of MTM will become clearer. I'm shocked at at how many people fall through our current system's cracks and we're one more point of contact for those people.

I'm not all super rah-rah MTM is my life; it's a very small part of what I do now but I don't think it's a totally unrealizable dream. I would hate to do MTM full-time because I have job ADD. I know pharmacy schools are shoving it down your throats and you have people telling you it will never work in the real world. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

JME/JMO

I appreciate your response. As you mention, I'm having instructors shoving the MTM koolaid down my throat as the saving grace of the pharmacy profession every damn day. Its refreshing to hear first hand information from someone actually doing MTM than a professor that is feeding my a narrative of what they think pharmacy is. In any event, I agree that the accessibility of pharmacists will be the saving grace of MTM if it ever takes off. Unfortunately, I only see this being possible in the independent pharmacies. In my experience in a retail chain pharmacy, there is not adequate space for a semi-confidential MTM session that one really needs imo. We do them, but only like 1 a month because corporate has a basal level quota for them. Otherwise my pharmacist wouldn't bother as its just one more thing on their list of fires to put out. You work for an independent?

 

[spacecowgirl]

I work in a hospital but provide MTM in our affiliated clinic. I have never provided MTM as a retail pharmacist (although I have worked retail during residency and still do float work so I'm not totally ignorant). I admit I have a hard time visualizing how MTM can work really well in a retail setting; I know my setting is pretty rare. It's not because I don't think retail pharmacist can provide MTM, it's a matter of having access to the medical record and access to prescribers.

In a perfect world, clinics would have a pharmacist on staff some of the time for MTM, drug information, therapeutic interchange questions, etc. To me that's the ideal setting for MTM - at the very least having access to the EMR makes it easier.

 

[SHC1984]

Yes, but one needs to be productive.. getting on publications, starting research projects, starting up programs with clubs, being active in the community. I've read on here and heard that the preceptors are getting fed up with applicants who simply fluff up their applications with clubs, research, but don't actually do anything meaningful.

I have been published before in research during undergrad, but not in pharmacy school. I suppose I can do that again. Research is my thing and I usually do well in that area.

I am not very involved in clubs though...something about getting up in front of 100+ people and speaking really freaks me out. I am not a shy person at all, but I prefer to never make any speeches.

You are absolutely right though. Just a 4.0 GPA is not enough. You need a 4.0 PLUS many other things to get into residencies nowadays.

 

[SHC1984]

You need work experience. Get you some.

3.75 with work experience is better than 4.0 with no work experience.

Thanks for the advise Z. I will try to find a job during the summer time again...but this time I will start BEFORE summer actually comes around...so hopfully I can land a job this summer. It's very hard to find a hospital that is willing to hire ONLY during the summer time.

Iam glad you are not totally against pharmacy, even though there are no jobs left you will still let your kids try it...that is good to hear..It just scares me when a PHARMACIST is against pharmacy...then you know something is really wrong! lol...

 

[SHC1984]

I must live in a pharmacy utopia. If not for SDN, I wouldn't know that jobs are as scarce as they are because there are still jobs here. I will say, they are not entry level, new grad jobs. They are 3-5 years experience, PGY1, BCPS types of jobs.

I believe Z has mentioned that the class of 2011 will be the first class of pharmacy that will start having some unemployed pharmacist. That makes a lot of sense b/c for the class of 2009 and 2010, MOST of the pharmacy students had to move OUT OF THE CITY to even find jobs and some might not be employed...I don't know..I just knew it really sucks when you have family in Atlanta but you have to move to ghettoville to find a job. But next year will be the year that many pharmacy students will graduate with no jobs available. It's a very scary thought.

 

[SHC1984]

I think rather than spending 2 years doing a residency with no guarantees of jobs, a better option would be to go to PA school. It's only 2 years and you can prescribe and have provider status. The job market will only get worse, much worse. There's no way the job market is getting better anytime soon, maybe never.

If I wanted to be a PA and like that kind of job I would have gone to medical school...PAs are in high demand but their job description makes me want to

 

[minette]

I have been published before in research during undergrad, but not in pharmacy school. I suppose I can do that again. Research is my thing and I usually do well in that area.

I am not very involved in clubs though...something about getting up in front of 100+ people and speaking really freaks me out. I am not a shy person at all, but I prefer to never make any speeches.

You are absolutely right though. Just a 4.0 GPA is not enough. You need a 4.0 PLUS many other things to get into residencies nowadays.

I think we are in the same boat...I like research..i even tought about doing a fellowship..but i think a residency might be better...It is not easy to find an internship where I live..not easy at all..it's a small city with 2 pharm schools...but i started volunteering at a hospital and hopefully i will get an internship with them soon..I'm trying to get involved in clubs and to hold a leadership position..

 

[SHC1984]

I think we are in the same boat...I like research..i even tought about doing a fellowship..but i think a residency might be better...It is not easy to find an internship where I live..not easy at all..it's a small city with 2 pharm schools...but i started volunteering at a hospital and hopefully i will get an internship with them soon..I'm trying to get involved in clubs and to hold a leadership position..

Research publication is much more impressive than winning a position in a club (which is essentially the same as winning a popularity contest...very pointless and "high school like" IMO). Plus I just don't like speaking in front of crowds...if I really care about the people in my class and care about being popular in school then I could do that crap too....but again I think its very pointless.

 

[Argentium]

Research publication is much more impressive than winning a position in a club (which is essentially the same as winning a popularity contest...very pointless and "high school like" IMO). Plus I just don't like speaking in front of crowds...if I really care about the people in my class and care about being popular in school then I could do that crap too....but again I think its very pointless.

and thats where you're wrong. if your classmates don't like you, what makes you think that a residency director would want to spend 40 hours a week with you for 104 weeks? and that only hits the "popularity" element.

 

[owlegrad]

Research publication is much more impressive than winning a position in a club (which is essentially the same as winning a popularity contest...very pointless and "high school like" IMO). Plus I just don't like speaking in front of crowds...if I really care about the people in my class and care about being popular in school then I could do that crap too....but again I think its very pointless.

Agree.

 

[SHC1984]

and thats where you're wrong. if your classmates don't like you, what makes you think that a residency director would want to spend 40 hours a week with you for 104 weeks? and that only hits the "popularity" element.

You misunderstood my point. I am not saying that I am unpopular. Most people in my class know me. What I am saying is that I think it is pointless to attract a lot of attention to myself and try to make myself popular and cool. Being popular requires you to be attractive, intelligent, and extremely social. I have the first two, but I choose to not be extremely social b/c I prefer doing research, getting publications and making perfect grades. I do not need or want to draw attention to myself in any other way. I already know I am great, I don't need to win a position (popularity contest) to prove it. Nor do I like to party every night till 3am to make new friends either...just not my cup of tea.

 

[SHC1984]

Agree.

Winning those contests does help you get into residencies, but I believe getting published in research and doing something beside partying till 3am is more important.

 

[MountainPharmD]

.....doing something beside partying till 3am is more important.

Wow! You have your priorities all screwed up!

 

[Dalteparin]

I already know I am great, I don't need to win a position (popularity contest) to prove it.

With an attitude like that, I'm sure interviewers are going to love you.

Besides, if research is really what you want to do, a clinical residency may not be the right fit. Maybe you should give more consideration to research-based fellowships or getting a PhD.

 

[ucrx]

Research publication is much more impressive than winning a position in a club (which is essentially the same as winning a popularity contest...very pointless and "high school like" IMO). Plus I just don't like speaking in front of crowds...if I really care about the people in my class and care about being popular in school then I could do that crap too....but again I think its very pointless.

I don't think it is about "winning" the leadership position, but the experience you get from it. Time management, leading a group, working with people who disagree with you, putting yourself in positions you aren't comfortable in, etc. Also, if you get more than one leadership position (especially after your first one) it can show that you did well with those things.

Experience in organizations, especially leadership experience, is very useful at residency interviews. Those situation based questions are coming, and many of them can be answered with experience from organizations.

Obviously leadership positions aren't for everybody, but there is a lot more to it than "being popular in school." I do also think you get a lot of good experience from research and publishing. I just don't see why its a one or the other situation. I don't think anyone should just get good grades, just work, or just do research, or just be in organizations if they want residency. I'm not saying to just join things to put on your CV, but if you can successfully do more than one thing it can demonstrate a lot about a person. I also don't think being good at one thing is enough to land the residency you want anymore. How will an applicant who did research through school and got good grades compare to one who did that and worked or was treasurer of their ASHP chapter in addition to the good grades and research?

TL;DR version: leadership positions in organizations are about way more than popularity and can help in the application process.

 

[Medwell]

Being popular requires you to be attractive, intelligent, and extremely social. I have the first two

pics?

 

[Filler]

...Being popular requires you to be attractive, intelligent, and extremely social. I have the first two..

pics?

 

[WVUPharm2007]

"...you can't fight in here, this is the war room!"

 

[rph3664]

I just came from a nursing board where several posters over the age of 40 said they don't get any response from resumes, etc. and when they do go for interviews, most of the people they see, even in management, are 30 or younger.

In my area, school principals are getting younger and younger too. They tend to be women in their 30s.

 

[SHC1984]

I just came from a nursing board where several posters over the age of 40 said they don't get any response from resumes, etc. and when they do go for interviews, most of the people they see, even in management, are 30 or younger.

In my area, school principals are getting younger and younger too. They tend to be women in their 30s.

If you are over 40 and are applying for a new job your chances of getting a job will be slim. Most companies like to hire young people b/c young people have potential to work for a long time before retirement, most likely aren't tie down with kids, etc. If a company hires an old person, that person can work a few years and then will have to retire...no one wants to hire someone and have them retire in a few years.

If you are 40+ you should already be well established in your career and have a good amount of savings, have most debts paid off etc...looking for a new job should be the last thing you would be doing.

 

[SHC1984]

pics?

I have around 2500 friends on facebook and 500 pending friend requests....if you can find me like all those random people did you are welcome to add me there.

 

[owlegrad]

I have around 2500 friends on facebook and 500 pending friend requests....if you can find me like all those random people did you are welcome to add me there.

Sounds like a challenge to me. But how will you know it's me? I need a clue on how to find you and a code word so you know it's me...

 

[SHC1984]

Sounds like a challenge to me. But how will you know it's me? I need a clue on how to find you and a code word so you know it's me...

Do you really want to be friends on fb?

 

[owlegrad]

Do you really want to be friends on fb?

You bet! PM me if I can add you.

 

[SHC1984]

You bet! PM me if I can add you.

PMed!

 

[owlegrad]

PMed!

Cool Beans!

 

[rph3664]

If you are over 40 and are applying for a new job your chances of getting a job will be slim. Most companies like to hire young people b/c young people have potential to work for a long time before retirement, most likely aren't tie down with kids, etc. If a company hires an old person, that person can work a few years and then will have to retire...no one wants to hire someone and have them retire in a few years.

If you are 40+ you should already be well established in your career and have a good amount of savings, have most debts paid off etc...looking for a new job should be the last thing you would be doing.

I can give them 19 years before I retire, if I do so at 65. How many younger people are going to stay in a job for 19 years?

Oh, yeah, that's right.

 

[scoobygrl79]

I have around 2500 friends on facebook and 500 pending friend requests....if you can find me like all those random people did you are welcome to add me there.

ugh..wouldn't you get tired of your facebook getting flooded by posts from people you don't even know or give a $*it about?

 

[Soonersyko]

This was my problem during pharmacy school: I couldn't find a job. Really! I applied to CVS, Walgreens, Walmart, where ever there was a pharmacy I was applying to it. I never got a call back while all my friends worked. It wasn't until the last semester of my 3rd year that I got a job with an independent. The time not working allowed me to study more and gave me the grades for a residency.

I was still offered a job in retail and hospital (yes, with no residency but it was a small town hospital) as a pharmacist but I'm expected the market to get even more tighter so doing a residency seems like the smart thing to do.

edit: actually I lied, I was offered one job an hour and a half away on Thursdays my 2nd year but it conflicted with a class I had and they refused to work around my schedule so I told them thanks but no thanks.

 

[rph3664]

ugh..wouldn't you get tired of your facebook getting flooded by posts from people you don't even know or give a $*it about?

You can edit Facebook to not show things like that. I know a woman who has several hundred Facebook friends, myself included, and most of them are people she has become cyber-acquainted with because of Farmville.

I, for one, have blocked game posts because that was probably 95% of my updates, and I don't play any Facebook games.

 

[ucrx]

If you are 40+ you should already be well established in your career and have a good amount of savings, have most debts paid off etc...looking for a new job should be the last thing you would be doing.

I'm pretty sure most 40 year old workers will work more than a few years before retiring. I don't think I know anyone who was able to retire around 50.

 

[tungsten87]

If you are 40+ you should already be well established in your career and have a good amount of savings, have most debts paid off etc...looking for a new job should be the last thing you would be doing.

are you kidding me? tell that to my father who was just laid off after working for a company for 20 years that was bought out and they let all the current employees go in the process. your posts here are generally naive but this is a classic. the world is not black and white you know...