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Is this profession getting better?
Is pharmacy career recovered? booming?
- Thread starter PharmD or nursing
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No. /endthread
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Return on Investment for pharmacy…there are many better options. Working conditions at least in retail are perpetually declining despite half assed attempts to create the illusion that things are improving (oooh half hour break for lunch).
Employers are constantly trying to underpay new grads and trend towards lower pay…starting pay in the 40$/hour area (maybe with a sign on bonus with fine print that likely won’t be fulfilled)
Employers are constantly trying to underpay new grads and trend towards lower pay…starting pay in the 40$/hour area (maybe with a sign on bonus with fine print that likely won’t be fulfilled)
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It has always been a high paying profession, but the time/money commitment may not be worth it for some.
If you can go to school for cheap during your teenage/early 20s, then I think the return is worth it (assuming you don’t hate the profession)
I think the days of “I graduated from pharmacy school but I can’t find a job” are behind us (for now)
If you can go to school for cheap during your teenage/early 20s, then I think the return is worth it (assuming you don’t hate the profession)
I think the days of “I graduated from pharmacy school but I can’t find a job” are behind us (for now)
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Do nursing.
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Or become an Airline Pilot (no cleaning poop as nursing)
For most that are stuck, especially if you work in a chain retail store, it’s more like “I don’t know how much longer I can last doing this”
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I don’t think people are “stuck” at these chain jobs
In fact, one of the best pluses about these large chains is that they don’t make you sign a contract (unless you are receiving a signing bonus)
If people are unhappy at a retail chain, they should be actively looking for a new job
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I do think that many RPh are indeed stuck at retail job ! True, you dont have a contract, you can quit anytime. However, it is not easy to find a decent non-retail job (especially for new grads). So you are stuck since you are not able to get a better non-retail job yet (and it may take years to get one).
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I haven’t been in retail in a minute but it wasn’t easy getting out per se. Maybe I did it wrong. Saying it’s easy to get out of retail is very “let them eat cake”….
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As an interested observer of the pharmacy profession for the last 40 years, I agree with both sides of the argument above! I have seen highs and lows, and thankfully, never worked retail. Yes, it has been a high-paying profession. Pharmacy has provided me and my family, a very good living.
Yes, it's fair to say, one is "stuck" in retail. Yes, you can try, as many have, to switch to hospital, clinical, ambulatory setting.
Yes, there is a reasonable availability of jobs. But, your ROI, not so good lately.
Yes, it's fair to say, one is "stuck" in retail. Yes, you can try, as many have, to switch to hospital, clinical, ambulatory setting.
Yes, there is a reasonable availability of jobs. But, your ROI, not so good lately.
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Took me 4 years to get out. It wasn't easy.
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I do not think that pharmacy is booming at all. My pharmacy manager at the hospital tells me that I will be lucky to have a job at all and to even have a chance at having a job I will have to be board certified. I am a Pharm D as well and a RN, BSN and basically the hospital is saying there will likely not be a job in the future for me. They are training the new RN's and RPh's to work in Patient Center Medical Home models, Team based, Whole person, Patient Centered Care or Population Health Models. It appears that many other countries are already doing population health models and patient centered care including the NHS, England, Britain, Australia, Canada, others maybe? Registered Nurses are dependent prescribers and Pharmacist are independent prescribers working in these PCMH or ACO models. You get paid based on value, patient outcomes, and patient satisfaction. The pharmacy technicians are expanding there role to take on pharmacy operation functions that was done previously by pharmacist and LPN and nurse aides are taking on many roles of the RN. The RN and pharmacist are to take on some of the providers duties. Everyone doing more with less model. They are calling it the healthcare collaborative where everyone practices at the top of their license.
They have students here who had rotations that all they did was Medicare wellness visits which is the same thing RNs are doing as well as transitions of care which is a nurse board certification. Down here in the South USA nurses are not paid much and that is why they all left to travel nurse. I applied for a PRN position in one of these PCMH during the pandemic when nurses locally were signing eighty dollar per hour contracts and they said that my BSN pay would be $21.79 a hour (it was a position doing prior authorizations and having medical assistants work under me = see diagram in article Point of Care Nurse). Pharmacist are going to be competing with nurses for that pay! Clinical Pharmacist Specialist are going to compete with Clinical Nurse Specialist for jobs. Student loans are like paying a mortgage these days. My recent RN magazine from the state board of nursing talked about nurses role in antibiotic stewardship and the RN telling the provider how long to do antibiotic treatment for.
Article:
Expanding the primary care patient-centered medical home through new roles for registered nurses
www.sciencedirect.com
Cut from the article cited above:
Process: expanding roles of nurses within the interdisciplinary PCMH model
In order to achieve improved patient outcomes, processes of
care delivery in the Interdisciplinary PCMH Model have been
modified to utilize nursing and clinical personnel to the full extent
of their education and training (see Fig. 3). Innovative nursing roles
and processes in the primary care setting include:
Quality team this team is led by a registered nurse (RN) along
with medical assistants, who extract population data monthly
from the electronic health record reporting system on patients
who are not meeting quality measures. These patients are
actively engaged to make appointments to address the plan of
care with their providers. Documented quality outcomes in the
electronic medical record are then transmitted to payers
through a registry.
Phone nurses this team of nurses triage patient calls, report
results, and provide patient education for phone inquiries from
patients. Chronic care medication refills are performed accord-
ing to physician-determined protocols by registered nurses. The
phone nurses also perform transition of care calls soon after
hospital, emergency department admissions or other care
transfers that include medication reconciliation and coordina-
tion of community services to decrease hospital readmissions.
These transitions of care calls are now tied to reimbursement if
the patient is seen by the provider in a determined time frame.21
Medicare wellness nurse the Medicare Wellness nurse is part
of the team with providers to administer cognitive, depression
and fall risk screening, update immunizations and other pro-
visions of the Medicare Wellness visit for Medicare
Beneficiaries.22
Project management (IT) nurse this nurse has specialized in-
formation technology knowledge to modify EHR templates,
create population reports and special project management duties
such as creating processes to meet Meaningful Use measures.
This nurse, with advanced EHR training, also provides daily in-
formation technology consulting regarding EHR functionality.
Point of care nurses working with providers e a team composed
of an RN and medical assistants work with providers to maxi-
mize daily workflow, assess needed quality measures to be or-
dered/performed on patients seeing the provider in the office,
enhance patient access to care with prior authorization calls to
payers, perform patient education and assist in goal setting and
care planning for health promotion.
Care coordinators as part of a national demonstration project,
these RN care coordinators who are employed by the local
physician-hospital organization, work closely with patients
with complex medical problems to improve care delivery,
address the social determinants of health and reduce costly care
including emergency department visits and hospitalizations.15
Specialty services nurses nurses with specialized training,
utilizing evidence-based protocols, provide services in the
ambulatory care setting such as allergy desensitization injection
clinics, flu vaccination clinics, travel immunization and anti-
coagulation clinics. These services require a physician available
on campus, but are managed by nursing staff
Based on what I am reading they are using pharmacist to fill in gaps in care such as physician and nurse shortages. Many nurses are getting there nurse practitioner leaving less nurses to collaborate and work under a NP so that leaves a pharmacist to collaborate under a NP.
www.pharmacytimes.com
"However, as NPs gain more independence, it raises the question: What is the nature of the working relationship between pharmacists and NPs? Are NPs supervisors of ambulatory care pharmacists? Are they partners? Equals? Are collaborative practice agreements in order? These are all questions that the early-career pharmacist will have to find out—or, better yet, help shape."
Pharmacy times has a three part series on pharmacist in ACOs
www.pharmacytimes.com
www.pharmacytimes.com
www.pharmacytimes.com
I believe it was a recent issue of Drug Topics that I saw that pharmacy techs that responded to the salary survey and 70% said their pay was at least 31 dollars a hour or more. At this point with how expensive college has become I would say skip nursing and pharmacy school and maybe be a pharmacy technician.
They have students here who had rotations that all they did was Medicare wellness visits which is the same thing RNs are doing as well as transitions of care which is a nurse board certification. Down here in the South USA nurses are not paid much and that is why they all left to travel nurse. I applied for a PRN position in one of these PCMH during the pandemic when nurses locally were signing eighty dollar per hour contracts and they said that my BSN pay would be $21.79 a hour (it was a position doing prior authorizations and having medical assistants work under me = see diagram in article Point of Care Nurse). Pharmacist are going to be competing with nurses for that pay! Clinical Pharmacist Specialist are going to compete with Clinical Nurse Specialist for jobs. Student loans are like paying a mortgage these days. My recent RN magazine from the state board of nursing talked about nurses role in antibiotic stewardship and the RN telling the provider how long to do antibiotic treatment for.
Article:
Expanding the primary care patient-centered medical home through new roles for registered nurses
Expanding the primary care patient-centered medical home through new roles for registered nurses
New models of health care delivery such as the patient-centered medical home have emerged to address the Triple Aim of improving the health and the ca…
Cut from the article cited above:
Process: expanding roles of nurses within the interdisciplinary PCMH model
In order to achieve improved patient outcomes, processes of
care delivery in the Interdisciplinary PCMH Model have been
modified to utilize nursing and clinical personnel to the full extent
of their education and training (see Fig. 3). Innovative nursing roles
and processes in the primary care setting include:
Quality team this team is led by a registered nurse (RN) along
with medical assistants, who extract population data monthly
from the electronic health record reporting system on patients
who are not meeting quality measures. These patients are
actively engaged to make appointments to address the plan of
care with their providers. Documented quality outcomes in the
electronic medical record are then transmitted to payers
through a registry.
Phone nurses this team of nurses triage patient calls, report
results, and provide patient education for phone inquiries from
patients. Chronic care medication refills are performed accord-
ing to physician-determined protocols by registered nurses. The
phone nurses also perform transition of care calls soon after
hospital, emergency department admissions or other care
transfers that include medication reconciliation and coordina-
tion of community services to decrease hospital readmissions.
These transitions of care calls are now tied to reimbursement if
the patient is seen by the provider in a determined time frame.21
Medicare wellness nurse the Medicare Wellness nurse is part
of the team with providers to administer cognitive, depression
and fall risk screening, update immunizations and other pro-
visions of the Medicare Wellness visit for Medicare
Beneficiaries.22
Project management (IT) nurse this nurse has specialized in-
formation technology knowledge to modify EHR templates,
create population reports and special project management duties
such as creating processes to meet Meaningful Use measures.
This nurse, with advanced EHR training, also provides daily in-
formation technology consulting regarding EHR functionality.
Point of care nurses working with providers e a team composed
of an RN and medical assistants work with providers to maxi-
mize daily workflow, assess needed quality measures to be or-
dered/performed on patients seeing the provider in the office,
enhance patient access to care with prior authorization calls to
payers, perform patient education and assist in goal setting and
care planning for health promotion.
Care coordinators as part of a national demonstration project,
these RN care coordinators who are employed by the local
physician-hospital organization, work closely with patients
with complex medical problems to improve care delivery,
address the social determinants of health and reduce costly care
including emergency department visits and hospitalizations.15
Specialty services nurses nurses with specialized training,
utilizing evidence-based protocols, provide services in the
ambulatory care setting such as allergy desensitization injection
clinics, flu vaccination clinics, travel immunization and anti-
coagulation clinics. These services require a physician available
on campus, but are managed by nursing staff
Based on what I am reading they are using pharmacist to fill in gaps in care such as physician and nurse shortages. Many nurses are getting there nurse practitioner leaving less nurses to collaborate and work under a NP so that leaves a pharmacist to collaborate under a NP.
Pharmacist, Nurse Practitioner Collaboration Delivers Optimal Care
Article from pharmacy times
Pharmacist, Nurse Practitioner Collaboration Delivers Optimal Care
For decades, pharmacy schools, residents, and fellows have been training to work alongside physicians, but that has not prepared us for what is coming.
"However, as NPs gain more independence, it raises the question: What is the nature of the working relationship between pharmacists and NPs? Are NPs supervisors of ambulatory care pharmacists? Are they partners? Equals? Are collaborative practice agreements in order? These are all questions that the early-career pharmacist will have to find out—or, better yet, help shape."
Pharmacy times has a three part series on pharmacist in ACOs
Pharmacists in ACOs, Part 1: Accountable Care Basics Every Pharmacist Should Know
Pharmacists in ACOs, Part 1: Accountable Care Basics Every Pharmacist Should Know
While trying to explain his work on quantum mechanics, physicist Richard Feynman famously quipped, If anybody says they understand it, they don't understand it." The same could be said about the speed-of-light changes occurring within our nation's health care system.
Pharmacists in ACOs, Part 2: Medication Therapy Management and Annual Wellness Visits
Pharmacists in ACOs, Part 2: Medication Therapy Management and Annual Wellness Visits
To date, medication therapy management and annual wellness visits are the primary services that have demonstrated benefits regarding improvements in health outcomes and cost savings when pharmacists are integrated specifically within an ACO.
Pharmacists in ACOs Part 3: Chronic Care Management, Chronic Disease State Management, and Transition of Care
Pharmacists in ACOs Part 3: Chronic Care Management, Chronic Disease State Management, and Transition of Care
After discussing the Basics of Accountable Care Organizations and Medication Therapy Management and Annual Wellness Visit services, the third and last section of the Pharmacists in ACOs series will focus on 3 more integration strategies for pharmacists within the ACO setting, including chronic...
I believe it was a recent issue of Drug Topics that I saw that pharmacy techs that responded to the salary survey and 70% said their pay was at least 31 dollars a hour or more. At this point with how expensive college has become I would say skip nursing and pharmacy school and maybe be a pharmacy technician.
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Sorry, couldn't READ your post in it's entirety! Damn this ADHD!! Have no idea where the NHS and Britain are? But basically the sky is falling. There is no future for, not only pharmacists, but RNs and BSNs. The only possible job availability is, Pharmacy Techs.
You must be young! This chicken little mantra has been ongoing for at least 40 years (that I am aware of). They were telling us, in 1982, that there were not going to be any pharmacy jobs in our future. that robots, software and techs would replace us all.
Well, surprise!!!!, I am still working. And I will still be working 10 years from now (if I am alive).
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I'm going to guess there was some ****ty sampling going on here
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I am not young. I have been working in health care over 20 years. My husband worked as a pharmacist since the 1979. My manager really has been telling me that I will be lucky to have a job at all. Why would she be saying that otherwise. It is because both pharmacist and nurses cannot bill for services. Pharmacy technicains are getting paid what they offered me to work as a nurse PRN during the pandemic. This is just to make people aware that they are making student loans the size of a mortgage for very little return.
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There's always non-traditional routes such as medical writing and entry-level industry positions.
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Unless your manager has a crystal ball, or called 1(900) MisCleo, I just don't see how he/she would accurately predict the future of pharmacy?
While the sentiment is okay, I just don't see a Pharmacy Technician as the answer! I work for the largest Hospital chain in the SouthEast. We have 22 hospitals, before this, I worked for 3 other Hospital systems, never heard of anything close to $31/hr for techs. Maybe Half of that, $15-17 is the going rate in Georgia.
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There are some careers which just- over time- become no longer viable. For the life of me, I wouldn't want to be a graphic artist anymore with that AI art stuff (I've tried it....anyone- literally ANYONE- can make and sell their own art now regardless of ability). Doing it myself and seeing the (potentially amazing) results with 10 minutes of trial and error made me feel almost guilty, and I genuinely feel bad for those with actual artistic talent. Their inherent gifts have just become completely devalued. But I digress....
Pharmacy is going that way too. Automation and AI will eventually pound the last nail in a coffin pretty much built by the pharmacy chains in making the work environment so toxic in return for ever decreasing salaries. I've said it to many....I would feel very sorry for ANYONE just starting a pharmacy career. Even non traditional careers....the job requirements and education are often so niche and ridiculous for the limited return I'm not sure how anyone could justify the cost of the initial degree plus jumping through all those weird hoops for a job that at best pays poorly to average. The return on investment just isn't there anymore....
Pharmacy is going that way too. Automation and AI will eventually pound the last nail in a coffin pretty much built by the pharmacy chains in making the work environment so toxic in return for ever decreasing salaries. I've said it to many....I would feel very sorry for ANYONE just starting a pharmacy career. Even non traditional careers....the job requirements and education are often so niche and ridiculous for the limited return I'm not sure how anyone could justify the cost of the initial degree plus jumping through all those weird hoops for a job that at best pays poorly to average. The return on investment just isn't there anymore....
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Where do you work?
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Lacey, we're going to need a full accounting of your pharmacy's pseudoephedrine stock.
metforminpharmd
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Very hard to get into. I tried, got interviews but never lead anything.
metforminpharmd
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You must be joking.
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New member, second post. Must be a troll.
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She's right about the demand. The supply just isn't there and I doubt it ever arrives without massive union intervention. I can't afford to pay $200k for a retail pharmacist under current reimbursements. That doesn't stop them from demanding it
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Remember kids, just say no to cocaine!
Can anyone explain how a measurement/unit of time can be hot? Cocaine is not good for the brain
Can anyone explain how a measurement/unit of time can be hot? Cocaine is not good for the brain
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metforminpharmd
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lol no I am old poster, I lost my old account.
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What was your old username? The mods can recover it.
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Looks like the original post is gone, but must be a college of pharmacy employee
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we totally made Lacey feel self conscious and possibly made her realize she might have a problem
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One data point from me:
I think PharmD is a good degree to have actually, but it should not be treated as something relevant on its own, pretty much in a similar way like MBA or MPH. It does open a lot of doors to me when it is used in the right way.
Tip of the day: attend a dirt cheap in-state public pharmacy school, and do something else, preferably technical on the side. If you are dead set on nontraditional paths, don't worry about those therapeutic courses & regurgitations. Do the bare minimum to graduate, cuz no nontraditional roles care about your therapeutics memory retention and that "something else" will eventually become your bread & butter, and that pharmd is just a placeholder qualification to signify you know a bit of life sci & clinical stuff, giving you a tiny competitive edge & domain knowledge for certain roles, ie, clinical data scientist hat(s) I am wearing.
I think PharmD is a good degree to have actually, but it should not be treated as something relevant on its own, pretty much in a similar way like MBA or MPH. It does open a lot of doors to me when it is used in the right way.
Tip of the day: attend a dirt cheap in-state public pharmacy school, and do something else, preferably technical on the side. If you are dead set on nontraditional paths, don't worry about those therapeutic courses & regurgitations. Do the bare minimum to graduate, cuz no nontraditional roles care about your therapeutics memory retention and that "something else" will eventually become your bread & butter, and that pharmd is just a placeholder qualification to signify you know a bit of life sci & clinical stuff, giving you a tiny competitive edge & domain knowledge for certain roles, ie, clinical data scientist hat(s) I am wearing.
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Medical writers? You basically need a track record of publications and prior regulatory filing experience to qualify.
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It really depends on how you define "high paying". Pharmacist salary isn't going anywhere in the last 20 years or so I think? I bet the hourly wage of an average pharmacist will still be around $50-60 when we reach 2040s.
If you go back a decade you will see posts predicting that pharmacist wages won't drop in absolute terms due to oversupply, but will instead be inflated away. It's been interesting watching that happen in real time. Oh, except hours and hourly rate did drop for a while there. Are new retail RPhs still being started at 32 hours/week these day? I'm a little out of touch.
metforminpharmd
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exactly, only experienced people are getting hired or if you did fellowship in that area then you would.
When my friends graduated from pharmacy schools in 2021 it was hard for them to find a job. They told me that things have changed now and there are currently plenty of jobs for pharmacists. So it means pharmacy is recovering, I assume?
I am not sure about current pharmacists' wages but if it is $50-60/hr as somebody mentioned above then it's the same pay as dental hygienists, and most hygienists just have an associate degrees from a community college.
I am not sure about current pharmacists' wages but if it is $50-60/hr as somebody mentioned above then it's the same pay as dental hygienists, and most hygienists just have an associate degrees from a community college.
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It was 50-60 over ten years ago before high inflation.
Travel nurses with a two degree are making $100 an hour.
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Where? This website shows the range is $38-61. Still a much better value than pharmacy.
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2-4% isn't even guaranteed in pharmacy.
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If you’re lucky you get 2-4%. Retail wages have stagnated for at least the last 5 years if not gone down.
ICU and ER travel nurses make $100/hr at my hospital in VA
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Well deserved. I wouldn't want to work in those high stress places.
I wouldn't either. But it creates animosity between the nurses that have been there for 10+ years and a traveler that is basically right of of school making twice as much and 10 times more mistakes.
I've noticed a lot of pharmacists will just stick with their first job for years if not their entire career, which I think is a big mistake. Changing jobs to the tune of 10-15% pay increases every few years has been a great experience for me. It has diversified my skillset and accelerated my wage growth. I'm sitting at around 55k more than I would be making if I stayed put and took 3% for a decade.
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You never wear out your welcome that way (or your tolerance of the other side). The only case to stick it out is if you are incentivized (Uniform, Foreign, or Civil Service). Not even hospitals routinely have pensions these days.
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I don't know if it's a failure to negotiate but I've been finding that everywhere else I apply to offers me much less than my current hospital. I have been told it is a regional issue Westchester > Bronx > Manhattan > Queens/Brooklyn > Long Island in terms of pay.
