California Northstate Accreditation Discussion

[prettycat]

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[lakeboy]

Is it just me or is that email not that professional? I mean, the exclamations are a but much. I can see why he would want to tell the students about himself but I think it goes overboard a bit. Or maybe I'm just bitchy

Have you read his "Dean's Message" on the CNU web page? Another inspiring message.......

 

[confettiflyer]

CNCP WASC decision wasn't included in the first round of document releases, the next set of documents is released on July 13.

 

[prettycat]

lakeboy do u know why they didnt get accreditation?
what the neplex passing rate was?

 

[Consultation]

at this point is not even about accreditation, they are hiding something,,they have more problems..im assuming they are on 14c) and they want to get fall tuition before closing their doors..as i said last week,...im imagining going there in augest and seeing a big sign saying OUT OF BIZ...please dont come back...looooooool hahahha

So frustrating to learn all this now. Are any of you guys getting really discouraged and changing your mind about going here? I am not sure what to do any more? I am already in my freaking mid 30's and been trying to get in for the past 9 years. Really don't want to go thru admissions process one more time!

 

[confettiflyer]

lakeboy do u know why they didnt get accreditation?
what the neplex passing rate was?

It's too soon to aggregate a naplex pass rate and that figure does not have anything to do with accreditation.

The other fall 2008 schools got accreditation before most of its graduating class tool naplex.

 

[lakeboy]

lakeboy do u know why they didnt get accreditation?
what the neplex passing rate was?

I will tell you what I have heard and I hope that ACPE will make the full documentation public as it will be an interesting read. I was told that ACPE stated there was a lack of Executive Leadership, lack of autonomy of the Dean and the Chairs, and there was mention of the firing of Dr. Brazill (all second hand but I trust the source).

So if haven't looked them up the President (former Kaiser pharmacist) and Vice President (former Wallgreens pharmacist) are investors and don't seem to have the same qualifications as say the president and vice president of any other College or University in the US! There are also faculty members that are investors and that has to make for interesting decussion in the faculty lounge, no hard feelings there I bet I get faculty salary and you get owners salary.

What I am hearing now is that it looks like a holy war between the non-investor faculty the president, vp and BOT is on the horizon.

I will give you more as I hear it just don't beat me up over it.

 

[prettycat]

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[prettycat]

....

 

[prettycat]

lakeboy
thanksssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
thats what i thought
i totally trust u and ur source

 

[cycloketocaine]

ACPE's EMAIL:
The entry on our website for 2011-2012 is the most recent decision made by the Board. California Northstate University College of Pharmacy was eligible for advancement to Full accreditation status this past June. The Board's decision was to extend the Candidate status of the College for one year. The College will be re-evaluated in June 2013 for advancement to Full status.

The program currently holds Candidate accreditation status and this status has the same rights and privileges as Full status. This means students who graduate while a program has Candidate status can take the NAPLEX and let future employers know that they did graduate from an ACPE accredited pharmacy school.

.

 

[Byebyebeautyful]

The entry on our website for 2011-2012 is the most recent decision made by the Board. California Northstate University College of Pharmacy was eligible for advancement to Full accreditation status this past June. The Board’s decision was to extend the Candidate status of the College for one year. The College will be re-evaluated in June 2013 for advancement to Full status.

The program currently holds Candidate accreditation status and this status has the same rights and privileges as Full status. This means students who graduate while a program has Candidate status can take the NAPLEX and let future employers know that they did graduate from an ACPE accredited pharmacy school.


herer is the email i just got from acpe:
i got this email from acpe...and i forward to dean..thanks lakeboy

Hm if you forwarded this to the dean, then I am pretty curious as to what he will say. Haha.. clearly ACPE or any fall 2008 school isnt waiting til july 24th to say anything.. The Dean out right lied about the results being confidential and such. Why cant CNCP be honest with their students?

 

[cycloketocaine]

Hm if you forwarded this to the dean, then I am pretty curious as to what he will say. Haha.. clearly ACPE or any fall 2008 school isnt waiting til july 24th to say anything.. The Dean out right lied about the results being confidential and such. Why cant CNCP be honest with their students?

.

 

[robw02]

Thanks for the information prettycat.

I have left ACPE a message and emailed them inquiring about the school's confidentiality claim.
Also I asked them to confirm that June 2013 would be the final opportunity for the school to gain accreditation. Will post if I get a response.

 

[lakeboy]

So frustrating to learn all this now. Are any of you guys getting really discouraged and changing your mind about going here? I am not sure what to do any more? I am already in my freaking mid 30's and been trying to get in for the past 9 years. Really don't want to go thru admissions process one more time!

I feel for you! Confettiflyer seems to be well versed in all things lawyerly. I am wondering if you and the rest of 2016 can drive a deal with the college and have a contract that if they fail to get accredited then you get some or all of your money back. Otherwise get in there, bust ass, impress everyone you can and try to transfer the hell out (long shot).

 

[pharmnerd2012]

Well now I feel stupid for dropping all of this loan money into the school. I wouldn't be worrying so much if they didn't get accreditation and owned up to it. But to blatantly hold the news back until after fall tuition is due is a disgusting move on their part. If the next email I receive from CNCP isn't an apology and admission of their accreditation status, I will not be paying the fall tuition.

From the above ACPE email it looks like the class of 2012 and 2013 are fine. Outside of that all bets are off. We need to somehow get the word out to the rest of the 2016 class and let them know what is going on, I'm sure a majority of them don't visit SDN and believe everything the dean said in his email.

 

[prepharmsocal]

So do we ACTUALLY know what will happen to the other classes past Class of 2013? Would they really close the doors and not refund anything ? Is it for sure that if they don't pass accreditation again that they close, leaving 300 student screwed? No transfer options, no nothing ? I wanna ask the school but I don't trust their response. Would ACPE know?

 

[robw02]

If they fail again next year, there would be no point in keeping the doors open. According the addendum cited earlier in the thread, 2012 is the 5th and final year that Northstate can hold pre-accreditation status. In the case of failure in 2013, none of the future graduates would be able to take NAPLEX. The classes of 2014-2016 would probably have to start over somewhere else or move onto something else. I doubt any other program would allow credits to transfer. The tuition would most likely not be refundable.

I'm waiting to hear back from ACPE to confirm this. And I agree with you, at this point I wouldn't trust anything you hear from the school unless it's confirmed by another source.

 

[prettycat]

im so depressed....consultation hear u ...lets have lunch looooooooooooooooooooooooooool
ur welcome robw2..

 

[confettiflyer]

So do we ACTUALLY know what will happen to the other classes past Class of 2013? Would they really close the doors and not refund anything ? Is it for sure that if they don't pass accreditation again that they close, leaving 300 student screwed? No transfer options, no nothing ? I wanna ask the school but I don't trust their response. Would ACPE know?

Like I mentioned earlier, whenever a new school opens, they are required by ACPE to file an "escape" plan...meaning there technically *is* some sort of plan to help the students transition out. I only know these things exist, not what's contained in them.

In reality, any escape plan is not going to be anything you would consider substantial. NO existing pharmacy school would be willing to sacrifice their academic quality and accept any courses from what would be, at that point, a defunct and non-accredited institution.

My best guess (emphasis): If anything, you may be granted a (useless) token degree or certificate in general sciences and *may* be able to get some tuition money back via a California state program/fund set-up for school failures. I know with the CA BPPS, schools under their jurisdiction eventually transfer records over to them in the event of a school failure.

In short, we don't know, it's never happened.

 

[confettiflyer]

Hm if you forwarded this to the dean, then I am pretty curious as to what he will say. Haha.. clearly ACPE or any fall 2008 school isnt waiting til july 24th to say anything.. The Dean out right lied about the results being confidential and such. Why cant CNCP be honest with their students?

I'm not ready to jump to this conclusion just yet...the statement from CNCP that they are unable to publicize anything until July 24th is such a bold statement that there *could* be some truth to it.

I'm personally skeptical and the date is too perfect with respect to tuition being due, but part of me thinks there's some inner ACPE workings going on that we may not know about.

Sometimes the obvious answer isn't obvious, so let's wait for additional information/confirmation before we go all-in here. We're not at the river just yet.

 

[prettycat]

pharmnerd2012,

i agree with u

 

[ravingrabbid]

Have you read his "Dean's Message" on the CNU web page? Another inspiring message.......

Ah, you mean the acronyms that would've sounded cool if I were enrolling into Hogwarts?

 

[30Percent]

I'm not ready to jump to this conclusion just yet...the statement from CNCP that they are unable to publicize anything until July 24th is such a bold statement that there *could* be some truth to it.

I'm personally skeptical and the date is too perfect with respect to tuition being due, but part of me thinks there's some inner ACPE workings going on that we may not know about.

Sometimes the obvious answer isn't obvious, so let's wait for additional information/confirmation before we go all-in here. We're not at the river just yet.

Is it possible that CNCP is filing an appeal and ACPE will get back to them on July 24?

 

[Consultation]

im so depressed....consultation hear u ...lets have lunch looooooooooooooooooooooooooool
ur welcome robw2...when u email acpe make sure to email the right person...i sent a few email(different people) till i got the answer

Thank you for the encouragement lake boy!

Yes prettycat, we must get together sometime and do lunch. Send me a PM when you all move to rancho...lol

 

[prettycat]

sure consultation
30percent,

i think class of 2012 and 2013 should sale their degree on eby 1.55 cent for a pharmd from a nonaccreditated school
i wouldnt buy that lol

 

[474671]

Is it possible that CNCP is filing an appeal and ACPE will get back to them on July 24?

https://www.acpe-accredit.org/pdf/cs_policiesandprocedures.pdf - Well according to page 19, there is an appeal process- whether or not the school is doing so, I don't know, but I doubt it (I could be wrong though). That would be some real lucky timing though.
I wonder what they would do if no one in the class paid tuition on the deadline, until more information was disclosed... I mean they can't really eliminate their entire class.

 

[30Percent]

https://www.acpe-accredit.org/pdf/cs_policiesandprocedures.pdf - Well according to page 19, there is an appeal process- whether or not the school is doing so, I don't know, but I doubt it (I could be wrong though). That would be some real lucky timing though.
I wonder what they would do if no one in the class paid tuition on the deadline, until more information was disclosed... I mean they can't really eliminate their entire class.

Their waitlist should be deep since they are probably not the first choice for a lot of students.

 

[Weibo]

strudal ,

im sorry but i posted that assuming the school will get accreditated ...if the school doesnt get accreditated i will take all of it back..cuz no matter how good u are...noone will hire a nonaccreditated gradu

Prettycat, please use proper spelling and punctuation. Writing like a child is very unprofessional and unattractive/"nonpretty" in a forum like this.

Anyway, if the school does get accredited, I believe that pharmacy as a field will be pretty much left in a hole for anyone to leave a brownish, wet dump inside. Have you ever seen those borderline scam schools that anyone with a heartbeat can apply for and get into? Pretty soon the advertisements for the accredited (but should not be accredited) schools will be all over television and the Internet. The testimonials will be like this:

"I was 16 and preggers, but i got my farmeecy degree before I turned 18!!!!"

"I dropped out of hi skool, but no worries! My carrier is back on track now that I've done this pharm program!"

"I was in jail for manslaughter for 20 years, but I finished my pharmacy program in only 3 years....while still in jail!"

In other words, schools that are a diploma vending machine should not be accredited.

 

[Weibo]

https://www.acpe-accredit.org/pdf/cs_policiesandprocedures.pdf - Well according to page 19, there is an appeal process- whether or not the school is doing so, I don't know, but I doubt it (I could be wrong though). That would be some real lucky timing though.
I wonder what they would do if no one in the class paid tuition on the deadline, until more information was disclosed... I mean they can't really eliminate their entire class.

I doubt they would eliminate their entire class.... More like they would just keep the class as large as possible....

 

[prettycat]

loooooool weibo

u broke ma heart, ur saying im not pretty thats not kwellll

 

[youRCC]

I wonder what they would do if no one in the class paid tuition on the deadline, until more information was disclosed... I mean they can't really eliminate their entire class.

No, but they can make their credit scores SUFFER.

Prettycat, please use proper spelling and punctuation. Writing like a child is very unprofessional and unattractive/"nonpretty" in a forum like this.

I think she's doing it for the LULZ...

 

[Weibo]

No, but they can make their credit scores SUFFER.



I think she's doing it for the LULZ...

If I were her professor, I'd fail her.... For the lulz.

 

[prettycat]

weibo,

i dont care what u would or wouldnt do hahhahah
dont like it, dont read it....im not talking to u

 

[Corpseman]

sure consultation
30percent,

thats what i thought, but according to ACPE's email the next time they will be consider for accreditation will be jun 2013...
i think class of 2012 and 2013 should sale their degree on eby 1.55 cent for a pharmd from a nonaccreditated school
i wouldnt buy that lol

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

funnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnny

 

[prettycat]

looooooool corpseman
im planning to sale one of my degrees on ebay soon
im sure pretty soon people will be able to buy useless degrees on ebay

 

[prettycat]

....

 

[lakeboy]

more news from acpe:

according to acpe there has never been a school that didnt get full accreditation from candidacy...acpe doesnt know what will happen to the program cuz they have to have on site visit in spring 2013..acpe did ask the school to present an exit strategy before spring 2013...

The question to ask ACPE is what is the 'n". I think if you look at the number of schools that have been in this situation you could most likely count them on one hand. Once the "cause" is made public I think you can asses the situation and say either they can pull this off or they can't. It is concerning that they asked for an exit strategy. With that request is ACPE saying lets make sure they have a map to follow before we pull the trigger?

 

[prettycat]

...

 

[Twentytwelve2]

lakeboy, i agree...i only found one school that was in the same situation appalachian....the fact that they did ask people for an exit strategy is scary? do they ask all the schools in this situation for an exit strategy?
dean finally sent an email...saying we didnt get accreditated looool

Yep yep. The dean and the school is working to resolve the issues and they feel confident they can resolve them prior to 2013 review. Dean will be discussing the issues with us personally when we matriculate.
There is no way they can fail the second time, given that ACPE informed them of the issues to fix.

 

[cycloketocaine]

Yep yep. The dean and the school is working to resolve the issues and they feel confident they can resolve them prior to 2013 review. Dean will be discussing the issues with us personally when we matriculate.
There is no way they can fail the second time, given that ACPE informed them of the issues to fix.

.

 

[cycloketocaine]

lakeboy, i agree...i only found one school that was in the same situation appalachian....the fact they did ask people for an exit strategy is questionable?
dean finally sent an email...saying we didnt get accreditated looool

.

 

[youRCC]

Will someone post the email? It would be an interesting read.

Oh, you know it! Hot off the press!

Dear All: I am forwarding the email below to you on behalf of Dean Shane Desselle.

Kindest regards,

Janette Kragen

Dear Student-Pharmacist Colleagues, Incoming Students, and All on our admissions wait list:

I write to you in the midst of professional travels to bring you news about our accreditation status with ACPE. Subsequent to a site visit this Spring and the ACPE Board meeting a couple weeks ago, our application for full accreditation has been extended and we remain in Candidate status.

It should be noted that this is not a denial of accreditation, but an extension for consideration set for the Spring of 2013. As noted by ACPE, maintenance of Candidate status does not in any way affect the rights and responsibilities of the organization, nor that of its students. All current and incoming students are allowed to complete the program in its entirety and sit for the NAPLEX and jurisprudence examinations for licensure, now and regardless of any future accreditation actions.

During my first two weeks as Dean, we have begun an aggressive pursuit of strategies for a successful ACPE accreditation application for the Spring of 2013. We are extremely confident that we will achieve full accreditation.

Many students have inquired as to the cause of our Candidate status being extended. First, let me state that as a matter of fact, many new programs during the past few years have faced nearly the same decision process by ACPE, which includes meeting 30 standards, each of which has a plethora of benchmarks. The College received many commendations, but at the same time, also received news of a few issues that we will address. I will be meeting with each class, PERSONALLY, at the very beginning of the semester to summarize these issues and how the College will proceed in resolving them. These will not be elaborated upon via email.

While we all would have liked to have achieved full accreditation during this cycle, I am eager to talk with all of you about how we are moving forward to meet the challenges ahead. And despite our disappointment, as your new Dean, I have to express some relief at being able to share this news with you, rather than having to wait any longer to share it with you, in accordance with ACPE instructions.

Please note that I am in the midst of week-long travels at the American Association of Colleges of Pharmacy (AACP). I am unable to answer additional questions during this time, as I am in meetings from early morning to late evening each day representing our College at the national level. Our website will be updated soon enough to provide you the exact verbiage from ACPE regarding our accreditation status. I have addressed many questions with emails to the class list-servs during the past week and look forward to answering your questions, in person, upon your arrival to campus for the 2013 Fall Semester.

We remain the same, caring, student-centric and innovative pharmacy program, characteristics that drew me to service as this organization's and your chief academic officer.

Sincerely,

Dean Desselle

 

[lakeboy]

OK am am really confident that my source has a "mole". I was told to wait till I saw the response from CNCP and that the reason that they were dragging their feet on this issue is that they hired a PR firm to write the response, DAMAGE CONTROL. Really does this e-mail sound at all like the other e-mails from the Dean.

I just doubled checked the AACP website the meeting doesn't start till Saturday the 14th.

What are they hidding??

 

[pig rx]

Oh, you know it! Hot off the press!

You better delete the letter youRCC. The forwarded email specifically states that it is intended only for the recipients.

 

[confettiflyer]

You better delete the letter youRCC. The forwarded email specifically states that it is intended only for the recipients.

lol, too late! i'm quoting this and am never deleting it.

Dear Student-Pharmacist Colleagues, Incoming Students, and All on our admissions wait list:

I write to you in the midst of professional travels to bring you news about our accreditation status with ACPE. Subsequent to a site visit this Spring and the ACPE Board meeting a couple weeks ago, our application for full accreditation has been extended and we remain in Candidate status.

It should be noted that this is not a denial of accreditation, but an extension for consideration set for the Spring of 2013. As noted by ACPE, maintenance of Candidate status does not in any way affect the rights and responsibilities of the organization, nor that of its students. All current and incoming students are allowed to complete the program in its entirety and sit for the NAPLEX and jurisprudence examinations for licensure, now and regardless of any future accreditation actions.

During my first two weeks as Dean, we have begun an aggressive pursuit of strategies for a successful ACPE accreditation application for the Spring of 2013. We are extremely confident that we will achieve full accreditation.

Many students have inquired as to the cause of our Candidate status being extended. First, let me state that as a matter of fact, many new programs during the past few years have faced nearly the same decision process by ACPE, which includes meeting 30 standards, each of which has a plethora of benchmarks. The College received many commendations, but at the same time, also received news of a few issues that we will address. I will be meeting with each class, PERSONALLY, at the very beginning of the semester to summarize these issues and how the College will proceed in resolving them. These will not be elaborated upon via email.

While we all would have liked to have achieved full accreditation during this cycle, I am eager to talk with all of you about how we are moving forward to meet the challenges ahead. And despite our disappointment, as your new Dean, I have to express some relief at being able to share this news with you, rather than having to wait any longer to share it with you, in accordance with ACPE instructions.

Please note that I am in the midst of week-long travels at the American Association of Colleges of Pharmacy (AACP). I am unable to answer additional questions during this time, as I am in meetings from early morning to late evening each day representing our College at the national level. Our website will be updated soon enough to provide you the exact verbiage from ACPE regarding our accreditation status. I have addressed many questions with emails to the class list-servs during the past week and look forward to answering your questions, in person, upon your arrival to campus for the 2013 Fall Semester.

We remain the same, caring, student-centric and innovative pharmacy program, characteristics that drew me to service as this organization's and your chief academic officer.

Sincerely,

Dean Desselle

 

[confettiflyer]

So I'm busy right now and don't have time to do a thorough evaluation of the Dean's new response, but here's a nice PR tidbit that I found:

First, let me state that as a matter of fact, many new programs during the past few years have faced nearly the same decision process by ACPE

THANK YOU CAPTAIN OBVIOUS! I highlighted "process"

Basically, the dean said: "every school goes through ACPE's accreditation process."

Uh..duh. It was obvious they were hoping some people would read this as "many new programs during the past few years have faced nearly the same decision" which would be a generally false statement.

So, in summary
1) CNCP appears to have lied about the whole July 24th thing
2) CNCP appears to have bowed to pressure (how many of y'all emailed CNCP and ACPE) and came clean about their accreditation status today via email

3) ACPE appears to be unsure as to what will happen (per pettycat's post), but I don't blame them, they are restrained from commenting because the process is ongoing and their final visit in 2013 obviously hasn't happened.

They are correct in that no school has ever failed to move forward out of candidate status, but no school has ever had the number of legal/accreditation issues surrounding it before. It's the same way we can't compare HICP to this situation...they are fundamentally different, and this school is fundamentally different from all of the other fall 2008 schools (which are the closest schools we can validly compare CNCP to).

So, again, CNCP is too unique to be able to apply the broad observations of every other pharmacy school in the country.

 

[confettiflyer]

Really does this e-mail sound at all like the other e-mails from the Dean.

I just doubled checked the AACP website the meeting doesn't start till Saturday the 14th.

What are they hidding??

It's conceivable the dean reads SDN and read what we wrote about his previous email

But while the AACP meeting starts the 14th, it's probable that there are sessions before the actual meeting itself...sortof like ASHP. I went to AACP when it was in Boston (unofficially in kind of a rogue-like manner) and there were activities prior to the start of the meeting.

 

[confettiflyer]

The question to ask ACPE is what is the 'n". I think if you look at the number of schools that have been in this situation you could most likely count them on one hand. Once the "cause" is made public I think you can asses the situation and say either they can pull this off or they can't. It is concerning that they asked for an exit strategy. With that request is ACPE saying lets make sure they have a map to follow before we pull the trigger?

Exit strategy is a standard request for every school going into the accreditation process. If I recall, all schools had to include it in their initial pre-accreditation application with ACPE.

Source: Personal interview with UHH during their accreditation process.

 

[youRCC]

.

.

Why did you edit your OPs? What are you trying to hide?

You better delete the letter youRCC. The forwarded email specifically states that it is intended only for the recipients.

Where does it say that in the message?