Aussie Med School FAQ

[jcat92]

Thanks, that's really helpful. Yeah personally I'm considering Sydney or Queensland (my boyfriend goes to uni in Sydney so that'd be preferable...) so it's good to see that living expenses can come out of loans. Do you think the residency situation will make it tough, what with loan repayments and such coming in? I'm of the attitude that as long as you work hard and get to know doctors at different hospitals (whether at home or in Australia) that it cannot be impossible to secure a residency... but maybe I'm being optimistic.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[shan564]

Thanks, that's really helpful. Yeah personally I'm considering Sydney or Queensland (my boyfriend goes to uni in Sydney so that'd be preferable...) so it's good to see that living expenses can come out of loans. Do you think the residency situation will make it tough, what with loan repayments and such coming in? I'm of the attitude that as long as you work hard and get to know doctors at different hospitals (whether at home or in Australia) that it cannot be impossible to secure a residency... but maybe I'm being optimistic.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "the residency situation" - are you referring to the accumulation of debt during residency or the internship shortage in Australia? If you're talking about the internship shortage, you could always just do what I'm doing and come back to the US.

 

[JohnsJohnson]

I'm an Aussie citizen living in the US since 1994 and presently researching the decision between medical school in Australia and the US. If I go to medical school in Aus it will be to remain and practice there. I'm still none to clear on tuition to be honest, but I'll get to the bottom of that in time. My question is this. Say I graduate from either Sydney or Melbourne, will I be able to pursue internship then residency in either of those cities? How much control do we have over where we train after graduation given reasonable standings? Obviously in the US you can within reason go to a city or institution of preference for residency. I've heard that after graduation in Aus that one must go to rural/undeserved areas but it is unclear if this is for everyone or just international students due to the complications I am aware they face.

 

[shan564]

Say I graduate from either Sydney or Melbourne, will I be able to pursue internship then residency in either of those cities?

Currently, internships are allocated by the state. If you go to med school in Sydney and you're an Aussie citizen, you'll get an internship somewhere in NSW (and you can apply for internships in other states, but you're less likely to get an urban spot in a different state). If you go to med school in Melbourne, you'll get an internship somewhere in Vic. Of course, most people in NSW will end up in Sydney and most people in Vic will end up in Melbourne, but there's no guarantee.

These details tend to change every year, but you're unlikely to get sent to a rural destination unless you specifically request it.

How much control do we have over where we train after graduation given reasonable standings?

You have very little control over where you do internship, but after that year, there's a lot of flexibility. Every specialty has different requirements - if you want to be a GP, you might do all of your training in the same practice, but if you want to be an ophthalmologist, you'll get sent to a different hospital in a different town (in the same state) every 3-6 months. But most specialties are somewhere in between.

Obviously in the US you can within reason go to a city or institution of preference for residency. I've heard that after graduation in Aus that one must go to rural/undeserved areas but it is unclear if this is for everyone or just international students due to the complications I am aware they face.

This only applies to international students. Also, you're not required to go to an underserved area... you just won't get your own "provider number" (thereby allowing you to bill independently) for the first 10 years unless you go to an underserved area. But you don't need a provider number while you're in training, so a lot of those 10 years will be taken up by your training years... after a year of internship, 1-2 years of "residency", 3 years as a basic registrar, and 2-3 years as a senior registrar, you've already knocked out almost all of those 10 years.

 

[JohnsJohnson]

Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

You have very little control over where you do internship, but after that year, there's a lot of flexibility.

Is it something like everyone getting entered in a database and the sites picking out who they want with no consideration of individual preference (i.e. not the US matching process)?

...if you want to be an ophthalmologist, you'll get sent to a different hospital in a different town (in the same state) every 3-6 months. But most specialties are somewhere in between.

This could be great if you get to live in one place and get on a train or drive locally to a new location every so often. However if you're relocating your domicile every few months for years to come it would be extremely draining.

 

[shan564]

Is it something like everyone getting entered in a database and the sites picking out who they want with no consideration of individual preference (i.e. not the US matching process)?

Not quite... you put in your preferences and a computer system allocates you in a way that maximizes the number of people that can get their top preferences, with some randomness thrown in. There's no merit system involved and the hospitals have no input in who they get. Some people get their top choice, some people get their #8 choice.

This could be great if you get to live in one place and get on a train or drive locally to a new location every so often. However if you're relocating your domicile every few months for years to come it would be extremely draining.

Most of the time, they won't make you relocate... but if I were going into ophthalmology, I'd probably live near Central Station to make sure that almost every hospital in Sydney is within a reasonable commute. They occasionally send you off for a rural term, but those are short-term, occasional, and come with free accommodation.
But again, that's only for ophthalmology. In most specialties, you can stay in the same region for most of your training.

 

[guest1347]

Internships in nsw are a lottery as has been said however victoria is different.

Internships in Victoria are to a large extent merit based. For pretty much all the big metro hospitals you will have to submit a cv and attend interviews.

If you are considered a local student you are currently guaranteed an intern position but if you are not competitive you are less likely to get one of the big 'desirible' hospitals.


NB This is for local students (which it seems you would be considered), not too up to date on the process for students from overseas.

 

[margiethemoo]

Hi guys,

So I've been doing some research with regards to internships in each state.

This has been a helpful resource as to what has been happening so far with internship spots across Australia:
http://www.amsa.org.au/internship-crisis

The latest updates
AMSA has received updated data from the Confederation of Postgraduate Medical Education Colleges (CPMEC) indicating that this year, 3236 Australian-trained medical graduates have applied for internship positions in 2013. This figure comprises 2828 permanent resident (domestic) and 498 temporary resident (international) graduates.

According to the latest available data, contained in the table below, only 3082 internships will be offered nationally.

The national shortfall of internships currently stands at 244 places.

If this is true, roughly half of the international students who have applied for internship positions in Australia will not get places.

I've also been doing random google news searches periodically to see what the government has been saying -
http://www.australiandoctor.com.au/news/latest-news/govt-vows-to-expand-intern-places

Government plans are underway to expand the number of medical graduate internships after almost 400 students missed out on a placement in the first round of offers.
Australian Health Ministers' Advisory Council chair Kim Snowball said Monday that Federal and State governments would "move quickly" to address the internship shortfall once the final number was known.
His comments have been welcomed by peak bodies, who said they were pleased health officials were finally starting to take notice of the crisis which was first highlighted by students in February.
Nationally, there are 495 more graduating students than there are internship places for next year.

(*note: the difference in number - 495 vs. 244 places - maybe this means that many internationals didn't even bother applying for internships in Australia this year)

The government seems to be moving to open up more internship spots nationwide but the problem is, will they be able to move fast enough to accommodate all of the new grads? The option of having private hospitals offer internships seems to be a popular one.

I've applied to Sydney, Melbourne, and Queensland, and while we have no idea what's going to happen in four years, I would like to go to a place with the most security possible (however minuscule it may be).

This is what I've found this year for NSW:

http://www.heti.nsw.gov.au/intern-allocation/w4/i1001211/

Priority Lists for Intern Allocation 2013
Category 1: Australian Citizens and Permanent Residents
1.1 (GUARANTEED) - Australian citizens graduated from a NSW university
1.2 - Australian citizens who graduated from an interstate university but completed grade 12 in NSW
1.3 - Australian citizens who graduated from interstate universities

Category 2: New Zealand Citizens
2.1 - Graduates of NZ universities who are NZ citizens

CATEGORY 3: NON-PERMANENT RESIDENTS
3.1 - Internationals who have graduated from NSW universities
3.2 - Internationals who have graduated from other Australian/NZ universities
3.3 - Internationals who graduated from campuses outside of Australia but are accredited by the AMC (i.e. Malaysia, etc.)

which basically means the internationals who go to USyd or UNSW or UWollongong get offered any left over spots after all the Aussies and NZers.

This year, so far, with the allocations:

Monday 23 July 2012
Round one offers were made to 880 applicants in category 1.1 of the NSW Health Priority List.
Wednesday 8 August 2012
Round two offers were made to 56 applicants in category 1.2 of the NSW Health Priority List
Friday 17 August 2012
Round three offers will be made pending positions being available.
Monday 13 August 2012 - 5pm
Accept or decline deadline for round two offers.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how many spots are left over after all of these rounds.


Queensland, I believe, has the same priority list.

They show how many acceptances have been made by Priority 1 and Priority 2-7 candidates, but they do not indicate how many are internationals:
http://medrecruit.nga.net.au/cp/?ev...ntrollerPluginName=mwacPostP1PlacementsReport


Victoria is a little bit of an oddball because:
1. As the previous poster has indicated, it is a merit-based system, rather than a lottery system like most of the other states. Grades, references, CVs matter, which could be perhaps advantageous to internationals?
2. In 2012, Internationals graduating from Victoria universities have been given priority over Australian citizens from interstate universities. - i.e. they were second in line after Australian students from Victorian universities.

http://www.pmcv.com.au/documents/doc_download/528-intern-match-offer-process

VICTORIAN INTERN MATCH - PRIORITY GROUPS
Group 1 - Australian permanent resident graduates from Victorian universities
Group 2 - International graduates from Victorian universities
Group 3 - Australian permanent resident graduates from interstate/NZ universities (including previous residents of Victoria - i.e. those who have completed grade 12 in Victoria), International graduates from interstate universities/NZ universities, graduates of AMC campuses

While this looks hopeful for international students planning to go to Monash or Melbourne, there are some things to be careful of:
-There are a lot more graduates in Victoria in comparison to the number of internship spots available so there actually may not be a lot of space for internationals
-There has been a severe backlash from the general public because Australians are being denied priority over internationals - who knows if this policy will hold through for four years.
-I can't seem to find any stats/numbers of how many people got offered positions in Victoria atm.


Yep. that's my homework so far.. hope this has been helpful?

 

[shan564]

Also consider the fact that the process is different every year. They're making lots of changes, so by the time you guys are graduating, the current info will be practically worthless.

The bottom line is - if you're a local, you'll be fine. If you're an international, have a backup plan.

 

[blazers]

can someone please elaborate on the curriculum in Austalian schools generally, particularly the first two years? Do they have a block system, like a whole course in anatomy, then a whole course in phys, etc. Or am I correct in understanding that the curriculum is organs based, and that anatomy is done over 2 years and much more of an emphasis is placed on PBLS and presentations rather than knowing factual knowledge. Is that a correct understanding from what I have gathered. Also I read on a forum, the attrition rate is nearly 0. Is that also correct? thanks

 

[shan564]

can someone please elaborate on the curriculum in Austalian schools generally, particularly the first two years?

Every school is different, but they usually describe their curriculum on their website.

Do they have a block system, like a whole course in anatomy, then a whole course in phys, etc. Or am I correct in understanding that the curriculum is organs based, and that anatomy is done over 2 years and much more of an emphasis is placed on PBLS and presentations rather than knowing factual knowledge.

At USyd, we did have a system-based curriculum (i.e. a block of musculoskeletal, a block of respiratory, etc.). But I wouldn't say that the emphasis is on PBL/presentations rather than factual knowledge... there are still lectures and the exams are still multiple choice and fact-based.

Also I read on a forum, the attrition rate is nearly 0. Is that also correct? thanks

Sounds about right. I don't know many people who quit. But that's probably equally true for American schools.