any updates on ab 1467?

[sck]

Originally posted by griffin04
[
The rest of the world is coping with the dental skills of its national dentists. However, we often have international patients in our clinics and some of my classmates have earned a lot of clinic credit re-doing foreign dental work (some even on their own family members). This isn't to say all non-US dentists are incompetent. But when you see dental work like this in these patients after seeing what we are expected to learn and do in school, it makes sense why the ADA has the International Dentist Programs in place to try and and keep some even standards of dentistry in our country - or at least to teach everyone the same standards before going into practice in the USA. [/B]

Hey,
Bench test is harder than any of the clinical boards in the country.. As far as foreign dentists are concerned, clinically most of us have seen and treated several more patients than a regular dental student in america does.. The patient pool is varied and enormous, also the theory subjects are much harder to clear and score than they are here. We read the same textbooks that American students use and use it more!! And any incompetencies in theory exams, clinical exams or practical exams fails the students there.. Like in our batch, by the time we graduated our class size was reduced by 40%, ie over a period of 4 yrs almost 40% students failed!!! All i am trying to say is that the standards are really really high.

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[gsmm]

can i say my opinion...the bench exam can never be an estimation of my professionality and telling u the truth griffin, if i was taught what you people are taught in US, i would have been a genious.
that doesnt mean i am not taught enough or below the acceptable level but what i am sayng is foreign dentists have different criteria and also another factor is the educational technology in US is well above the whole world.

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by griffin04
However, we often have international patients in our clinics and some of my classmates have earned a lot of clinic credit re-doing foreign dental work (some even on their own family members).

Cool! Great idea!

Actually, I contacted this girl who graduated from UOP a couple of years ago. She told me since she was the only Hispanic in her IDP class, she had more than pleeennnttyy of patients to get her credits completed, she even had to give them away.
When she told me that I laughed off my chair.

Anyway, going back to the bench test, remember they need to disqualify people, that's their "duty".

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by elto
Hey Meggs, No amalgams????? How do you do it....

Overall living expenses are wayyy more in the US, incluiding health care cost.

 

[Chuchuca]

I really don't like when people judge an entire group for the " bad performance" of a few others. In my opinion, for you to say something about somebody else job, you have to first try to learn in which conditions, with what type of technology and resources the work was done. Then you can judge.
Dental students of America, do not have any clue on how reality "outside America" is. So, please....
About the bench, Typodont sucks. In my country we use typodonts only until second year of dental school, then only live patients and every real dentist knows that school doesn't help you that much when things get crazy. Even here in US the work of some dentists is questionable. I have been working as an assistant since 2001, and with all the technology some dentists had scared me.
But I do not want to compare, judge or start a longer discussion about it.

Anyway, lets talk about what really matter for us " THE BENCH". Any tips on books for tooth preparation? I am looking for a book with lots of pictures. Please !!!!

 

[Meggs]

Originally posted by Chuchuca
Anyway, lets talk about what really matter for us " THE BENCH". Any tips on books for tooth preparation? I am looking for a book with lots of pictures. Please !!!!

chuchu

Have you take a look at that link from UCLA I posted?, it has plennnttyyy of pictures, and its free . It's on the "Links of int...."

 

[bpl77]

The rest of the world is coping with the dental skills of its national dentists. However, we often have international patients in our clinics and some of my classmates have earned a lot of clinic credit re-doing foreign dental work (some even on their own family members). This isn't to say all non-US dentists are incompetent. But when you see dental work like this in these patients after seeing what we are expected to learn and do in school, it makes sense why the ADA has the International Dentist Programs in place to try and and keep some even standards of dentistry in our country - or at least to teach everyone the same standards before going into practice in the USA.


__________________

Hello griffino4,
There are incompetent dentists everywhere .Even i have seen a lot of floppy jobs here.
Dont ever say that all the american graduates are good at work.If you think like that you really have a problem.
How does IDP make sense for you ?? when ADA can conduct a standardized exam to test the academic efficiency of foreign graduates why not an exam to test the clinical efficiency throughout the united states ???you can conduct an exam as tough as you can as you said according to the american standards.
All these schools want to make money thats the bottomline .

SANG

 

[RoyalAlbatross]

I sincerely agree with Sang with regards to IDP programs. Why do international dental graduates have to repeat a couple of years in the dental school? The foreign medical graduates need only to pass USMLEs 1, 2 and 3 and clear the ECFMG exams. Once they enter a residency and then pass through, they will get their licence! Whereas dentists are treated totally different - NBDE 1 and 2 and then further schooling to "re-educate" and bleed more money into the "financially" failing state school system! If it stops there, then fine, but the student must once again take the regional boards to cough up even more money! Sometimes even re-doing a previous regular 4 year DDS student's work! Why can't they sit the exams like the regular students, I mean if it is so strict, the regional exams will surely fail the obviously bad dentists, won't it? Or is the dental boards already acknowledging that their system isn't perfect (or objectively based) because they are concerned that their examinations will be too subjective and may "accidentally" pass (horror!) an international dental graduate in one exam?
Could this really happen? Well, who knows?


Conclusion: IDPs are one way of generating extra income for the dental schools. Some schools need it more than others because they aren't getting enough grant money from the government or the industry. Money money money! Oh well...

 

[elto]

You are right on target!!!!!

 

[sadanand]

hi,
i totally agree with the rest . the local organisation thinks all the schools in the rest of the world arent worth anything neither r the degrees .
basically they have a complex that anything thats not american isnt good .

most of the dentists from other countries like india work under much more difficult conditions , trying to cater to the large , & poor patient pool . we dont get assistants like dentists here have . two running around for something we consider really silly . with all the competations we have to face , both during & after our studies , we r much more competant than most of the dentists here . we r capable , hard working , & good at it . thats the reason most of the indians clear NDBE 1 & 2 pretty easily . & score way above 90 . given a chance most of them would have cleared the practical exams too!!!!!
but the thing is ADA wants to make sure not every body gets lisence here , either due to financial r some other reasons .


& griffin if u r wondering y people find it hard to clear the bench r any lisencing exam , then i must say that like ADA , even u have a complex & also it makes me wonder ys that even after doing 4 years of same dentistry in the same country ..the US OF AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA u need to prepare to pass u r NERB exam .

 

[gryffindor]

Originally posted by sadanand
But the thing is ADA wants to make sure not every body gets lisence here , either due to financial r some other reasons .

& griffin if u r wondering y people find it hard to clear the bench r any lisencing exam , then i must say that like ADA , even u have a complex & also it makes me wonder ys that even after doing 4 years of same dentistry in the same country ..the US OF AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA u need to prepare to pass u r NERB exam .

Did you ever think about why the ADA controls the number of dentists here? It's the same as the AMA. Foreign medical grads don't just automatically have a chance to compete for US residencies with all the US grads. The AMA has all numbers tightly controlled and the slots filled by foreign medical grads are annually accounted for. The AMA would never fill all residency ALL spots in the USA with foreign grads no matter how many qualified foreign candidates there are, even with their current system in place. The ADA is doing the same thing, except since dentistry doesn't have a 3 year residency like medicine does, it makes you jump through hoops and enroll in a 2 or 3 year IDP. Then # of IDP (and regular DDS) spots are controlled by the ADA; every qualified student will not be admitted b/c the ADA doesn't want an excessive number of American or International dentists.

I'm sure there are many international dentists with impeccable hand skills that would outperform many American students. And I know there are practicing American graduates that do marginally competent work, I'm not that naive. My point in IDP being a good idea is that it brings everyone (American students, IDP students) onto the same page.

sandanand, your last comment makes no sense. Of course my school is going to prepare me for the NERB, that's why I am in dental school, to get a dental education. I am not a foreign trained dentist; prior to dental school, I didn't know anything about preps or dentures or casting or wax ups, etc. The NERB is a very subjective exam. You can do beautiful preps but fail because you forgot to sign some paper. (I'm guessing the California exam is the same way.) Now there is a choice for those of us in NY - we don't have to take the NERB. Many of my classmates doing a GPR or AEGD (those are 1 year general dentistry residencies) are not taking the NERB because NY will give you a license when you finish your GPR or AEGD. This license is only valid in NY, so if you want to practice in any other state, you still have to take the NERB.

 

[sck]

hi,
Why do they make it almost impossible for foreign grads to get into residency programs without the DDS, which is just contrary to the Medical doctors.. who not only get into residencies easily, but are also paid the same stipend as americans!! and poor dentists, who already dont have money when they come from their own countries have to be in huge debts of more than 100k even before they start.. What do the schools expect, do millionaires come to join their "prestigious" programs? In a way, the system stinks and needs more fairness.. the least they can do is make these programs affordable if at all they want to justify the purpose they claim.

 

[mommyr]

hmmm...i am wondering if this discussion about the relevance of IDP programs or competency of foreign grads is in this thread maybe i should ne started on another thread bec. we're deviating away from the subject...

i am simply looking for updates on ab 1467 when i started this thread so let's perhaps it's better we stick to the area of interest

 

[sck]

Originally posted by mommyr
hmmm...i am wondering if this discussion about the relevance of IDP programs or competency of foreign grads is in this thread maybe i should ne started on another thread bec. we're deviating away from the subject...

i am simply looking for updates on ab 1467 when i started this thread so let's perhaps it's better we stick to the area of interest

Actually there is a thread devoted to this called "Foreign Trained dentists- imp info on Deadline ext of Bench" where all the relevant info on the bill is present. people are just sharing their opinions about the system and probably we can change the name of the thread!!