2023 VIRMP Match

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exotics&wildlifehopeful

exotics&wildlifehopeful

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Figured I’d start a thread for the match since it officially opens for applications in November! I’m nervous but excited to apply! Can’t believe it’s already time😬
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Hi, just popping in to ask a dumb question! In what situations would you apply to an internship and NOT rank them? I am not understanding the benefit, if there is one. Is it because if you don't rank them and you don't match to your top choices and then they offer you a position, you're not technically "matched" to them and don't absolutely *have* to accept the position? (apologies for weird grammar)
 
doctor-who said:
Hi, just popping in to ask a dumb question! In what situations would you apply to an internship and NOT rank them? I am not understanding the benefit, if there is one. Is it because if you don't rank them and you don't match to your top choices and then they offer you a position, you're not technically "matched" to them and don't absolutely *have* to accept the position? (apologies for weird grammar)
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Current 4th year who hasn't applied yet so just guessing but...the situation I'm imagining is if you apply thinking you would like to match there, then after an interview and/or talking to current interns you decide it's not the place for you, then you wouldn't rank them. Since you usually interview in between your applications and ranking. Does that make sense?

Sorry if that doesn't answer your question, lol
 
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hi! random but has anyone externed at Houston gulf coast veterinary specialist or mission veterinary emergency and specialty in Kansas? What do you think of them and how hands on could you be? Thanks!
 
Enzo07 said:
Current 4th year who hasn't applied yet so just guessing but...the situation I'm imagining is if you apply thinking you would like to match there, then after an interview and/or talking to current interns you decide it's not the place for you, then you wouldn't rank them. Since you usually interview in between your applications and ranking. Does that make sense?

Sorry if that doesn't answer your question, lol
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Thanks Enzo!!! That makes sense :) Best of luck to you!
 
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Hey there! Hailing from Japan and hoping to get matched into internship programs that do not require problematic visa applications (mostly as students I guess?) while enrolling in ECFVG to get my changes higher. Any non-AVMA accredited graduates out there pursuing the same path as well?
 
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Guess I'm joining this fun this year (and probably next as well). Applying for specialty internships. Shouldn't be too hard to guess which based on my username I suppose :laugh:
 
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doctor-who said:
Hi, just popping in to ask a dumb question! In what situations would you apply to an internship and NOT rank them? I am not understanding the benefit, if there is one. Is it because if you don't rank them and you don't match to your top choices and then they offer you a position, you're not technically "matched" to them and don't absolutely *have* to accept the position? (apologies for weird grammar)
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I'm a physician, but this seems basically the same as our match (NRMP). The only time you should not rank a program is when you find it to be actively malignant. Like really malignant. Not ranking a program basically says, "I would rather not match than match here." At least in the NRMP match, having a program lower on your rank list does not affect your odds of matching at a program higher on the list. So you don't lose anything odds-wise by having some meh-tier programs lower on your list.
 
EthylMethylMan said:
I'm a physician, but this seems basically the same as our match (NRMP). The only time you should not rank a program is when you find it to be actively malignant. Like really malignant. Not ranking a program basically says, "I would rather not match than match here." At least in the NRMP match, having a program lower on your rank list does not affect your odds of matching at a program higher on the list. So you don't lose anything odds-wise by having some meh-tier programs lower on your list.
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While this is true, there’s also a little different pressure for vet med internships and residencies versus human med. We can practice as fully licensed vets upon graduation without any technical need for an internship or residency, so there’s not really a need for the mentality of ‘match or be doomed forever’ like in human med. Sure you need to match to pursue a specialty in vet med but you absolutely can find a great job using your degree without matching. Vet med pays significantly less salary to their residents (like less than half the pay of human med residents from my understanding and like 25-30% of what you’d make as a regular full time vet in GP or ER) with even fewer hour restrictions and guidelines so that alone can be incentive not to sign up for a “meh” program you didn’t vibe with. If you’re going to do residency and make those monetary and time sacrifices, it should be somewhere you can tolerate. I do agree with all your other statements though besides the one saying people need to accept any that aren’t actively malignant. That mentality is fine if you want to do that but you can also be choosy if you want. Just depends on your goals. I do know people who ranked like every program that had a surgery opening but many people are selective and only match a handful they truly want.
 
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JaynaAli said:
While this is true, there’s also a little different pressure for vet med internships and residencies versus human med. We can practice as fully licensed vets upon graduation without any technical need for an internship or residency, so there’s not really a need for the mentality of ‘match or be doomed forever’ like in human med. Sure you need to match to pursue a specialty in vet med but you absolutely can find a great job using your degree without matching. Vet med pays significantly less salary to their residents (like less than half the pay of human med residents from my understanding and like 25-30% of what you’d make as a regular full time vet in GP or ER) with even fewer hour restrictions and guidelines so that alone can be incentive not to sign up for a “meh” program you didn’t vibe with. If you’re going to do residency and make those monetary and time sacrifices, it should be somewhere you can tolerate. I do agree with all your other statements though besides the one saying people need to accept any that aren’t actively malignant. That mentality is fine if you want to do that but you can also be choosy if you want. Just depends on your goals. I do know people who ranked like every program that had a surgery opening but many people are selective and only match a handful they truly want.
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Count me in for the choosy gang this year. I’ll realistically probably rank 2-3 residency programs max. There’s too many good options in the real world to sign myself up for a 3 year commitment somewhere that isn’t a top pick. 🤷‍♀️
 
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TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo said:
Count me in for the choosy gang this year. I’ll realistically probably rank 2-3 residency programs max. There’s too many good options in the real world to sign myself up for a 3 year commitment somewhere that isn’t a top pick. 🤷‍♀️
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What specialty are you applying for?
 
TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo said:
ECC, so a relatively non-competitive specialty haha.

I have a job offer at an ER I adore working at as well, so regardless how it all pans out I’ll be happy.
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That's what I figured based on your post haha. Good luck!
 
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doctor-who said:
Hi, just popping in to ask a dumb question! In what situations would you apply to an internship and NOT rank them? I am not understanding the benefit, if there is one. Is it because if you don't rank them and you don't match to your top choices and then they offer you a position, you're not technically "matched" to them and don't absolutely *have* to accept the position? (apologies for weird grammer)
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I applied to 20 internships but only ended up ranking 15. After you apply to programs, they will start to reach out and offer interviews/more info about their program. After learning about the internship programs, I decided that 5 were not for me so I did not rank them. It mainly prevents you from matching with a place you don't want to go to (but thought you did).
 
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I was wondering about the logistics timing wise for applying. I was hoping to have my CV and personal statement completed by early December (to give my LORs a month to write). Do I start applying to programs before that or is waiting until everything is complete in December too late?
 
vetmed-mirrorball said:
I was wondering about the logistics timing wise for applying. I was hoping to have my CV and personal statement completed by early December (to give my LORs a month to write). Do I start applying to programs before that or is waiting until everything is complete in December too late?
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I waited to apply until everything was completed but that’s more of my obsessive behaviors. I did not wait until all my LORs were in to apply though
 
doctor-who said:
Hi, just popping in to ask a dumb question! In what situations would you apply to an internship and NOT rank them? I am not understanding the benefit, if there is one. Is it because if you don't rank them and you don't match to your top choices and then they offer you a position, you're not technically "matched" to them and don't absolutely *have* to accept the position? (apologies for weird grammar)
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I applied to a place for internship because I was convinced it would be the best place in the world. I visited there after applying/ before rank for an externship and I was absolutely horrified at everything- the interns and residents themselves told me they would not come here but they didn’t have any other choices.

I very quickly took them off my rank list and didn’t look back.

There are so many spots available with scramble, don’t settle
 
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vetmed-mirrorball said:
I was wondering about the logistics timing wise for applying. I was hoping to have my CV and personal statement completed by early December (to give my LORs a month to write). Do I start applying to programs before that or is waiting until everything is complete in December too late?
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It ultimately doesn't really matter, though some places may start offering interviews prior to the official application deadline. After the application deadline though is when programs will download everyone's complete applications and comb through them.
 
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Hi everyone,
How should a residency personal statement differ from an internship statement? Does anyone have a draft of theres that they would not mind messaging me? Thank you!
 
futuredvm297 said:
Hi everyone,
How should a residency personal statement differ from an internship statement? Does anyone have a draft of theres that they would not mind messaging me? Thank you!
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Hopefully you’ve learned a lot in a year, right? And hopefully gotten some level of exposure to your field of interest in that time too? This is the time where you’re saying “yep, I really do want to do this!” and your statement should reflect at least in part how you’ve solidified that decision. Perhaps some personal attributes you’ve discovered or strengthened during intern year that you feel would make you a strong resident in a program, how you hope to contribute to the field in the future, etc.
 
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Does when you submit your application matter for VIRMP? Are there any advantages of not waiting to submit the app close to the deadline? ie more rolling basis or more like VMCAS?

Signed,
a 3rd year that doesn't know much about VIRMP
 
I am looking for information/opinions/experiences from previous interns from the following locations. I am appreciative for your efforts in advance!
  • VCA Animal Specialty Group, Los Angeles
  • VCA Animal Specialty & Emergency Center in LA
  • VCA Emergency Animal Hospital & Referral Center in San Diego
  • VCA West Los Angeles Animal Hospital
  • The AMC NY
  • WestVet Emergency & Specialty Center in Boise
 
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What did people who don't have research/publications put in the section for "Publications, research or other pertinent experience" in the general information page? SOS
 
Can LORs be from residents and faculty? I’m applying for a rotating internship at a nonacademic specialty center. I have 2ish faculty I would like to ask for letters and a great 3rd year resident I have worked with a lot. I know it’s better for faculty but haven’t seen the rules for letters. Opinions?
 
Brittnicole said:
Can LORs be from residents and faculty? I’m applying for a rotating internship at a nonacademic specialty center. I have 2ish faculty I would like to ask for letters and a great 3rd year resident I have worked with a lot. I know it’s better for faculty but haven’t seen the rules for letters. Opinions?
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Faculty yes, but letters from residents usually aren't recommended. I don't think it's really a stated rule , at least as far as I'm aware...more just how things are done.
 
Brittnicole said:
Can LORs be from residents and faculty? I’m applying for a rotating internship at a nonacademic specialty center. I have 2ish faculty I would like to ask for letters and a great 3rd year resident I have worked with a lot. I know it’s better for faculty but haven’t seen the rules for letters. Opinions?
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WildZoo said:
Faculty yes, but letters from residents usually aren't recommended. I don't think it's really a stated rule , at least as far as I'm aware...more just how things are done.
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I agree. Faculty yes, but residents are very tricky. Third year residents are better than any other year, but if you can find someone else it might be better. I’m only a first year resident, but I know I wouldn’t write a LOR for a student right now. Not that I don’t think they'll do well in an internship, but the reality is, I just don’t have the same street cred as a staff doctor/ specialist
 
Might be a bit of a niche question and might not be the right place to ask, but... anyone have any thoughts on equine private practice internships vs those through the match? I have been looking primarily at private practice because I have... not enjoyed my time at vet school and the interns and residents at my school have horrible work/life balance, horrible staff support (both clinician and tech), and basically it seems like a nightmare. I was leaning more towards private practice as a result, but I don't know if maybe my school is just awful, and other programs are better? I am kind of running out of time to figure things out, and the pressure of "where are you going/what are you doing?" when I graduate in <6 months is definitely building. Pretty much all of my classmates have jobs/internships/offers already, and I don't even know what I want to do!
 
EquusObsessed said:
but I don't know if maybe my school is just awful, and other programs are better?
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Anecdotally, all my classmates did private practice internships in equine. I can't think of a single person who did academia.

Also, I would be willing to bet my mortgage that the vast majority of academia equine internships suck.
EquusObsessed said:
Pretty much all of my classmates have jobs/internships/offers already, and I don't even know what I want to do!
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Take your time!! I didn't sign for my job until January!! And honestly I wish I had taken my time. :)
 
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I didn't even start looking for a job until after graduation. Obviously that tact doesn't work for people dealing with the match, but I just laughed when people asked me what I was doing starting before the new year, haha.
 
EquusObsessed said:
Might be a bit of a niche question and might not be the right place to ask, but... anyone have any thoughts on equine private practice internships vs those through the match? I have been looking primarily at private practice because I have... not enjoyed my time at vet school and the interns and residents at my school have horrible work/life balance, horrible staff support (both clinician and tech), and basically it seems like a nightmare. I was leaning more towards private practice as a result, but I don't know if maybe my school is just awful, and other programs are better? I am kind of running out of time to figure things out, and the pressure of "where are you going/what are you doing?" when I graduate in <6 months is definitely building. Pretty much all of my classmates have jobs/internships/offers already, and I don't even know what I want to do!
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I think it depends on what you want. Do you want to stay in academia? Do you want to do a residency? Then it might be beneficial (though perhaps not necessary) to consider academic internships. Otherwise a private practice internship would probably serve you just as well. But, don't think that it's automatically going to be better quality of life just because it's private practice either.
 
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For equine don’t many/most of the private practice ones choose their people outside of the match before the actual match deadline? I remember my classmates who went into PP Eq internships knew early on. The ones who did the match tended to be the ones who didn’t get the PP spots they wanted. It’s been quite a while since I graduated so things could have totally changed since then though. That doesn’t really answer which you should do, but most of my equine classmates who are still in equine did PP. That’s not to say the few I know who went academic aren’t great vets but most just seemed to want to do PP for whatever reason.
 
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For all my people out there choosing to do residencies, or who have done one already, what type of student loan repayment did you choose? I'm looking at VIN but personally, I just hate having it looming over me!
 
Most residents I know did income based repayment during internship and residency. Salaries are low enough we either didn’t have to pay anything or payments were under $200 a month. I knew I would pay them off in the end based upon my debt to income ratio so I paid a little more each month during residency but the income based repayment was nice because it allowed a little breathing room in the budget and kept payments low if I had unexpected expenses. Then once I finished residency I was technically still on an income based plan for a while but I hammered the loans hard and paid them off within a couple years.
 
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futuredvm297 said:
For all my people out there choosing to do residencies, or who have done one already, what type of student loan repayment did you choose? I'm looking at VIN but personally, I just hate having it looming over me!
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I started out with the PAYE plan during my internships, but my entire residency has been during COVID and the zero interest so I haven't been paying on them. I plan to put a significant chunk of my grown up paychecks toward my loans and hopefully pay them off relatively quickly when I finish next year (I'm also fortunate to be married and be able to rely on my husband's income for living too though).
 
Residency match is already giving me more headaches than internship match did. The stakes are a lot higher this time around lol. I'm going to have a much harder time deciding rank order than I did last year.
 
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caligrown5 said:
I am looking for information/opinions/experiences from previous interns from the following locations. I am appreciative for your efforts in advance!
  • VCA Animal Specialty Group, Los Angeles
  • VCA Animal Specialty & Emergency Center in LA
  • VCA Emergency Animal Hospital & Referral Center in San Diego
  • VCA West Los Angeles Animal Hospital
  • The AMC NY
  • WestVet Emergency & Specialty Center in Boise
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I work with an ER doctor that did her internship at VCA West LA a few years back. She said the new internship director that they have is someone she absolutely loved working with, and that overall she felt the caseload was heavy but very beneficial for her development as a doctor. She also mentioned that there was one specialist who created a somewhat toxic atmosphere at times, but that specialist has since left. Overall she really liked it and thinks that if anything the culture has seemed to improve in the past few years based on keeping in touch w/people there.
 
Those applying to rotating internships, are you leaning academic or private practice? And what are your post-internship plans?
 
I'm leaning towards mostly academic! I want to go into neurology, so finding hospitals with 2-3+ neurologists is one of my big deciding factors. I've had externships at a few of the "big name" private practices and out of them there's one I'm thinking of applying to. But honestly, I still have a *lot* of heavy research to do before I officially decide and before I figure out my rank order:dead:
 
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I'm leaning towards academic with a few private practices sprinkled in. I'm interested in specializing in radiology or cardio so I was looking for places that had specialists for both full time.
 
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Anybody know how far letters of reference usually go? I’m applying to a place where 3 specialist doctors were previously employed at and I’m very sure I’ve got good letters of references.

Would those letters go quite a long way in terms of getting a competitive residency?
 
Current SA rotating intern at VCA Animal Referral and Emergency Center of Arizona that will be staying on as an ER clinician.
Wanted to jump on the thread and say I’m happy to answer any questions anyone has about the program!
Ultimately really enjoy it, QOL is amazing, no on-calls, and the increased intern salary is pretty amazing ($80k).
 
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Are you from
FrostySparrow said:
Current SA rotating intern at VCA Animal Referral and Emergency Center of Arizona that will be staying on as an ER clinician.
Wanted to jump on the thread and say I’m happy to answer any questions anyone has about the program!
Ultimately really enjoy it, QOL is amazing, no on-calls, and the increased intern salary is pretty amazing ($80k).
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Are you from avma accredited vet university? Any tips for foreign grads?
 
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