2018-2019 Sackler School of Medicine New York State Program

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Got my acceptance! Arrived via fedex. Excited!!!


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The school is at Tel Aviv University. They had an administrative office in NYC and an agreement with NYS Dept of Ed. to be considered in-state.

I hope I can clear up some confusion on this point. For everything that matters--such as applying for 4th year electives in the US and applying for residency programs after graduation--you will not be considered "in-state." Sackler students have International Medical Graduate ("IMG") status. This means we apply for electives and residency separately from US students. In 4th year we apply to the Electronic Residency Application Service (ERAS) via the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG). As a result Sackler outcomes in obtaining residency spots track more closely with other US IMG programs (Caribbean/ MSIH/ Technion/ etc.), whose outcomes are generally better than non-US citizen applicants, but are not on par with US MDs.

To better understand what these differences mean I added links below that show how all three categories fared in last year's residency match. You can use them to compare the average Step 1 scores for successful applicants to a given specialty. For instance, about 95% of US graduates who scored 210 on Step 1 successfully matched into internal medicine programs last year. Compare that to 45% of US IMGs who matched with the same score and only 30% of FMGs who did as well (*see p 86). To get the same 95% chance of acceptance as a US MD with a 210, a US IMG needed to score 45 points higher, or 255 (**see p 114)--that's a huge difference!

*Match stats for US MDs (see p 86):
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-Seniors.pdf


**And for US IMGs and non-US citizens, aka "FMGs" (see p 114):
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-IMGs.pdf
 
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Waitlisted this morning and will be attending MSIH. Congrats to everyone on their acceptances!
 
Anyone know if Sackler awards merit scholarships? If so, to who?
 
Hey guys I got my acceptance two weeks ago. Beyond thrilled to be at Sackler! Would love to talk with any other folks who are planning to attend. Good luck to everyone.
 
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Hey guys I got my acceptance two weeks ago. Beyond thrilled to be at Sackler! Would love to talk with any other folks who are planning to attend. Good luck to everyone.
Congrats!
 
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Tough decision but I am giving up my acceptance here... hopefully it goes to one of y'all :)
 
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3) Our year had 63 students. Of those 63, 7 took a year off to study more for step, most were going for more competitive residency programs, almost entirely surgical - 1 person failed the CBSE (the mock exam we are required to take before we sit for the Step 1).

4) Of those that moved on, only one person flunked a third year clerkship

Actually 6 people flunked their 3rd year clerkships last year and had to take a year off. A few of the 6 were originally part of the previous class but had taken a year-off before that as well.

In my experience over the last 4 years, 1-3 students don't match per year, for various reasons.

4 students failed to match last year and at least 10 more from the original class of 63 students didn't enter the match.

49 students matched last year, some of whom were original members of class of '17 who had taken a year off earlier for various reasons.

6) The idea that you have to score 45 points more than your US counterpart is bizarre and unrealistic.

While it would be misleading to suggest that international students need to score 45 points higher than US students on Step 1, most would agree that it's substantially harder to match from an international program like Sackler. For instance, according to the data, to have roughly the same 95% chance of matching into internal medicine as a US student with a 210 on Step 1, on average an American who attends an international program needs a 255.

Compare a score of 210 on page 86 in: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-Seniors.pdf

to a score of 210 on page 114 in: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-IMGs.pdf

10) Yes, the most recent Step 2 CS fiasco is true - I've heard quite a few people failed - I really don't know why. CS is not something you learn in the wards, there's a First Aid book with scenarios and you play them out with your friends. I'm assuming more than half of those failures are do to anxiety/shyness more than anything else.

13 people or about 20% of the class failed CS last year. US graduates have a 97% pass rate in their first attempt while international students pass about 80% of the time. Sackler's numbers in 2018 were in line with international averages. While Sackler students may be more shy and anxious than US students, no one I've talked to attributes their failure on CS to that.
 
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7) People will not hold your hand.

This point deserves emphasis...

At Sackler resources are scarce since much of the tuition goes to other programs at the university. The administrators emphasize Hebrew over medicine and fill the schedule with other mandatory but useless courses and activities. Policies are invented and changed by administrative fiat, without warning, and rarely in writing. The pre-clinical dean and professors have never taken the American boards so they cant offer much more than thoughts and prayers. In 3rd year students find out the basic Hebrew they've spent so much time acquiring is useless in hospitals, which makes patient interaction difficult, but, unlike in the US, Sackler students can go weeks or months without admitting a patient or writing a note. The school doesn't arrange or even guarantee placement in 4th year clerkships in the US and most American hospitals don't offer them to international students as well. So students search and apply for electives while studying for board exams Step 2 CS, CK, and shelf exams in surgery and Ob/ Gyn for which Sackler sets a minimum passing score higher than any US program. Throughout all of it students are mystified to find an administration which treats students with unwavering condescension, pettiness, and antagonism. Most students quickly come to appreciate 'not having their hand held' because it makes it easier to avoid the administration entirely.
 
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Are there any current Sackler students who don't mind sending me a private message? @Drwhip and @R2R_MD I would love to ask you both some questions, but both of your accounts don't allow private messages.

Thanks!
 
@Drwhip Do you think not being proficient in Hebrew/Russian is the main cause of not getting great clinical training at hospitals? Everyone I've spoken to (mostly graduates and not current students) said they had a fantastic experience and learned so much more than they would in a US school, because med students are simply allowed to do more in Israeli hospitals.

Also, is there a FB group for accepted students for class of 2023? And should we receive confirmation that they received the deposit?

TIA!
 
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I had the same question about a fb group but haven't heard of one yet
@Drwhip Do you think not being proficient in Hebrew/Russian is the main cause of not getting great clinical training at hospitals? Everyone I've spoken to (mostly graduates and not current students) said they had a fantastic experience and learned so much more than they would in a US school, because med students are simply allowed to do more in Israeli hospitals.

Also, is there a FB group for accepted students for class of 2023? And should we receive confirmation that they received the deposit?

TIA!
 
@Drwhip Do you think not being proficient in Hebrew/Russian is the main cause of not getting great clinical training at hospitals? Everyone I've spoken to (mostly graduates and not current students) said they had a fantastic experience and learned so much more than they would in a US school, because med students are simply allowed to do more in Israeli hospitals.

Also, is there a FB group for accepted students for class of 2023? And should we receive confirmation that they received the deposit?

TIA!

I cant speak much to how our clinical experience compares to US programs. I've heard some students here have done minor procedures that US students wouldnt be allowed to do. I've also heard that US programs are starting their clinical studies earlier, in 1st or 2nd year, as board exams have become more clinically oriented.

Impressions about 3rd year clinical rotations vary widely among students, however, a couple of issues may be worth mentioning. About 50% of each class speaks proficient or better Hebrew before coming to Sackler. They will help translate patient interviews for the non-Hebrew speakers. Many patients speak fluent English as well. So the language-barrier is an impediment but it's surmountable. A related issue is that the computer system is entirely in Hebrew. Unless your written Hebrew is excellent it's very difficult or impossible to navigate. Very few, if any, students use it regularly. Also, we dont get editing privileges, so we cant order consults/ labs etc.

I think the biggest problem with the language-barrier is how it makes many students feel. Not speaking the language and not using the computer can discourage students from truly taking ownership of their patient's management and can instill a bystander mindset.

Another issue during the 3rd year is the sheer number of lectures and presentations we receive. This varies by hospital but I'd say that on average maybe half of each day is taken up by powerpoint lectures in a conference room. Maybe it's the same or worse in the US, I have no idea.

A facebook group for the new class should open sometime in the next month or two.
 
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If you have a chance to go to a US school, do NOT pass it up. You're going to learn more by interacting with patients and rounding in the wards than you will by "doing more". Doing a bedside paracentesis or putting in IV lines doesn't prepare you for residency, reading and physical exams do.

Hi R2R,

Thank you for your response! Do you think that most Sackler students share your sentiment not to pick Sackler over a US school?

Also, if I may ask, how good was your Hebrew before going to Sackler, and how good is it now?
 
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Actually 6 people flunked their 3rd year clerkships last year and had to take a year off. A few of the 6 were originally part of the previous class but had taken a year-off before that as well.



4 students failed to match last year
and at least 10 more from the original class of 63 students didn't enter the match.

49 students matched last year, some of whom were original members of class of '17 who had taken a year off earlier for various reasons.



While it would be misleading to suggest that international students need to score 45 points higher than US students on Step 1, most would agree that it's substantially harder to match from an international program like Sackler. For instance, according to the data, to have roughly the same 95% chance of matching into internal medicine as a US student with a 210 on Step 1, on average an American who attends an international program needs a 255.

Compare a score of 210 on page 86 in: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-Seniors.pdf

to a score of 210 on page 114 in: http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Charting-Outcomes-in-the-Match-2018-IMGs.pdf



13 people or about 20% of the class failed CS last year. US graduates have a 97% pass rate in their first attempt while international students pass about 80% of the time. Sackler's numbers in 2018 were in line with international averages. While Sackler students may be more shy and anxious than US students, no one I've talked to attributes their failure on CS to that.

I was going to send this as a pm but I cant access your profile, those that entered the match and went on interviews but failed to match do you know what they were trying to match into/what went wrong?
 
Hi everyone,

I was hoping some of you can give me some insight.

I took the MCAT in the summer and got a 499. Upon the advice from lots of people, including my premed committee at school, I chose to not apply for 2019 cycle, finish college (graduated in December), restudy for the MCAT (which I will be taking in April), and apply for 2020. Over the past few days, I have been seriously regretting my decision not to apply for 2019. I know my MCAT is super low, but my application is really strong otherwise. I know that the chances of acceptance the second time around are lower (that's what initially stopped me from submitting my application), but I keep having this thought of "what if I get in, and can start this summer".

What do you guys think? If I apply now (really late in the game...) with a very low MCAT score (499), is there any chance at all that I'll get in, or will it be seen as a joke and not even taken seriously?

Thank you for your help.
 
Hi everyone,

I was hoping some of you can give me some insight.

I took the MCAT in the summer and got a 499. Upon the advice from lots of people, including my premed committee at school, I chose to not apply for 2019 cycle, finish college (graduated in December), restudy for the MCAT (which I will be taking in April), and apply for 2020. Over the past few days, I have been seriously regretting my decision not to apply for 2019. I know my MCAT is super low, but my application is really strong otherwise. I know that the chances of acceptance the second time around are lower (that's what initially stopped me from submitting my application), but I keep having this thought of "what if I get in, and can start this summer".

What do you guys think? If I apply now (really late in the game...) with a very low MCAT score (499), is there any chance at all that I'll get in, or will it be seen as a joke and not even taken seriously?

Thank you for your help.
I suggest retaking the MCAT and applying afterwards. Due to the competitiveness of the applicant pool, you want to make sure that there are no significant deficiencies in your app. I think you may have more regrets after applying with a low score than you would by waiting until the next cycle. Just my $0.02 though
 
Hi everyone,

I was hoping some of you can give me some insight.

I took the MCAT in the summer and got a 499. Upon the advice from lots of people, including my premed committee at school, I chose to not apply for 2019 cycle, finish college (graduated in December), restudy for the MCAT (which I will be taking in April), and apply for 2020. Over the past few days, I have been seriously regretting my decision not to apply for 2019. I know my MCAT is super low, but my application is really strong otherwise. I know that the chances of acceptance the second time around are lower (that's what initially stopped me from submitting my application), but I keep having this thought of "what if I get in, and can start this summer".

What do you guys think? If I apply now (really late in the game...) with a very low MCAT score (499), is there any chance at all that I'll get in, or will it be seen as a joke and not even taken seriously?

Thank you for your help.
I think you should absolutely wait to retake for AMERICAN schools through AMCAS. I think you should apply to Sackler now though because it is not too late in their cycle (literally just had my interview here and they told me that people who apply in May still have a big chance of getting in) so maybe if you get into Sackler you won't have to retake MCAT or apply through AMCAS the following year and if you don't get in to Sackler then you wont be a reapplicant for AMCAS
 
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I am another MS4 at Sackler, and I want to share my perspective on the things that have been discussed here.

1. Why do the numbers seem to bleak?

I think it's important to put these numbers in context: the class of 2018 was an outlier year and we should not assume that future years will be like that. The students in the class of 2018 who graduated on time (~70%) did very well, and had arguably the best Match in modern Sackler history. However, those who didn't graduate on time really struggled. We currently have 8 students from the class of 2018 who took one year off. I do not think this is excessive. However, there are six(!!!) students from their class who are MS3s now after taking two years off. All of them have at least one exam failure that forced them to take a year off; some have two. To put things in perspective, there is only one student from the class of 2017 who took two years off, and that was due to an unforeseen medical issue, not exam failures. The class of 2019 only has one person taking two years off, and that is because they want to do research because they are vying for an extremely competitive surgical sub-specialty. So when @Drwhip says that 13 extra students joined their MS3 class so far, keep in mind that half of them are stragglers from the class of 2018 and that this is definitely not the norm.

Now, I want to address why Sackler students, who didn't fail their Sackler exams, choose to take time off during medical school. One reason is that some Sackler students are going for very competitive specialties and need very high board scores and published research to match into these programs. Know that if you are interested in a very competitive specialty, such as a surgical sub specialty (eg ENT, neurosurgery, etc.) you will almost definitely have to take a year off.

A second reason has to do with the students themselves. Most students choose Sackler because they didn't get into US schools, which is usually because they have low mcat scores. If you are someone who struggles with standardized tests, that's not magically going to change when you get to Sackler. So several students take a year off so that they will have more time to study for the USMLE so that they will have better scores. I want to make it clear that this has nothing to do with Sackler's curriculum. I happen to think that the pre-clinical education is great and prepares us very well for Step 1. The students who need extra time to study for Step 1 (who are not going for competitive specialties) would struggle at any school, and it's not fair to blame Sackler for that.


2. What are the numbers?

Now, onto the actual numbers of the original class of 2019. We started out with 63 students. We have only two students who had to take a year off for failing Sackler exams (one of them didn't come back). We have two students who chose not to come back after two years at Sackler. We have seven students who took a year off after year two (including one person who failed a Sackler exam), and five who took a year off after year three. We have four students who will be doing residency in Israel and are not applying for the Match. So we have 49 out of 63 graduating on time, and 45 out of 63 applying for the Match on time.

I don't know how these numbers compare to other schools, but my guess is that this is better than most other US IMG schools. Don't assume the grass is greener elsewhere (unless you're comparing to a US allopathic school).


3. What happened with Step 2 CS?

Yes, the rumors are true. We had 13 people fail this licensing exam last year on their first attempt. I don't know which students failed, so I don't know why this year was such an outlier. I will say that the people who I spoke to who passed CS, including myself, struggled the most with the medicine, not with shyness or empathy. I'm assuming the same was true for the students who failed.

Most years only one or two students fail CS. Only two students failed the year before, for example.

Fortunately, the school has already made changes in the curriculum to start CS prep in the first year of medical school, which was implemented starting last year (ironically before they knew CS would become such as issue). So while they aren't doing much differently to help current MS3s prepare for the exam, every subsequent year will be much better prepared for the exam.

In short, I don't think this should be a reason for you not to go to Sackler.


4. What are extra challenges that Sackler students have to face as IMGs?

As I said before, the pre-clinical curriculum is great, and if you study hard you will be very prepared for Step 1 at the end of second year. That's not on this list.

However, you're clinical education is not going to be as strong as it would be in the US. I agree with what was said by others so I'm not going to repeat it.

You will struggle to get your electives in the US. Sackler has almost no connections, so they will not be able to help you beyond giving you one or two "Sackler spots" (a select few institutions guarantee electives for Sackler students, which is enough for one or two electives per student; we need a total of four). Many students had to use personal connections to get at least one elective, and several had to do an elective at a private practice (much less desirable) because they had no other options. On the other hand, I don't know any Sackler student who took a year off simply because they couldn't get their electives.

We are also considered IMGs for the Match; this has been discussed earlier so I'm not going to repeat what was already said about how that impacts us.


5. What are the benefits of going to Sackler?

Most importantly, you will become an MD. Many Sackler students did not get into US allopathic schools, and by going to Sackler you will fulfill you're dream of becoming a doctor.

And if you're willing to work hard enough, no specialty is closed off to you. We have students matching every year into very competitive fields, so if you have your heart set on a particular specialty, you will most likely be able to achieve your goal at Sackler.

As @Drwhip said, the other benefits are mostly social and cultural. Because most of us don't have family living in Israel, our classmates become our family. Tel Aviv is also a great city to live in (even if it's a bit expensive).


6. Should you go to Sackler if accepted?

It depends what your options are.

Between US allopathic schools and Sackler: go to the allopathic school. This shouldn't even be a debate for you. Even if you get off the waitlist after you already got to Israel for orientation, you should still go to the allopathic school. The only situation where you might prefer Sackler is if you are planning on going into family medicine or pediatrics, and the allopathic school is much more expensive. No one from Sackler has ever had any trouble matching into those specialties, and the salary for those doctors are low enough that you should consider the price tag of the schools when making your decision.

Between Sackler and Technion/MSIH (ben gurion): Definitely choose Sackler! Any dysfunction Sackler has pales in comparison to the other American schools in Israel. I don't want to be more specific on a public forum, but I can tell you that knowing what I know now, I would rather retake the mcat and reapply to medical school than to go to one of those schools. (Not for anything, Tel Aviv is also a much nicer city to live in than Haifa or Beer Sheva.)

If you are deciding between Sackler and a DO or Carribean school, it's a much tougher question and probably program-specific. FWIW many Sackler students chose Sackler over DO schools.

Hope this helps!
 
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Can anyone elaborate on the interview experience here? I know it is a 45 (or so) minute one-on-one interview, however is there anything else that occurs on interview day? Is there a presentation or any kind? Are there multiple applicants present on the same day? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
 
I was also wondering if someone can please explain the third and fourth year clinical rotations in detail please, especially for those of us that don't have family connections to help them land good spots? How does one navigate the clinical rotations landscape. Personally, I'm interested in pursuing anesthesiology so any tips would be greatly appreciated. (About me: I scored a 512 on my MCAT in 2017, GPA 3.86, and I worked for over 5 years in the Army medical corps. I got accepted to two US medical school and waitlisted in a few but had to withdraw due to a family emergency. Not wanting to lose out on time and go through the tedious reapplication system, I'm exploring other options. I'm really interested in Sackler and one or two schools in the Caribbean, and I'm trying to decide what's best for me.) Thanks!
 
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Can anyone elaborate on the interview experience here? I know it is a 45 (or so) minute one-on-one interview, however is there anything else that occurs on interview day? Is there a presentation or any kind? Are there multiple applicants present on the same day? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!
The interview day here is much different from interviews at other med schools. There are no presentations or anything. You show up, do your interview, and leave. I met one other interviewee after he came out of his interview. Honestly, I liked the interview experience. A lot of other med school interviews have so many presentations & boring stuff I could do without.
 
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Anyone have any ideas how the MD and DO residency merger will affect Sackler students? Will anything really change in terms of match success (for better or for worse)?
 
Anyone have any ideas how the MD and DO residency merger will affect Sackler students? Will anything really change in terms of match success (for better or for worse)?
I doubt it will have much of an impact. From what I can tell, the merger will simply broaden residency options for both MD and DO applicants.
 
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Any acceptances recently?
 
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Does anyone know when we can expect to hear back after being waitlisted?
 
Anyone know if there is/will be a Facebook group for class of 2023?
 
Can any current students comment on how the match was this year? I saw that they are claiming the rate was 100%. Is this an accurate statement?
 
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Can any current students comment on how the match was this year? I saw that they are claiming the rate was 100%. Is this an accurate statement?

Yes everyone matched! Even people who failed to match last yr successfully matched this yr :)

For those waitlisted - I've been there - I had to wait till July to get off the wait list. Yes it was a long wait, but totally worth it
 
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Yes everyone matched! Even people who failed to match last yr successfully matched this yr :)

For those waitlisted - I've been there - I had to wait till July to get off the wait list. Yes it was a long wait, but totally worth it

Awesome to hear! Any competitive matches? I'm excited to see the list
 
Regarding the match this year:

The good news is that every single person matched, including those who failed to match last year and reapplied. This is an amazing accomplishment, and it may even be unprecedented for Sackler.

However, three of these matches are preliminary positions-- meaning that they only matched into a first year position and will need to reapply next year for a full-term residency position. (These students had applied to anesthesiology or general surgery.)

Furthermore, three students did not match into their preferred specialty, and instead matched into a less competitive back up specialty. I am not sure how this compares to other years, because no one ever talks about this.

Overall, the caliber of the matches were lower than what we had last year, particularly in internal medicine. However, we still have many competitive matches this year, both at high-caliber institutions and in competitive specialties.
 
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57 matches this year = 100% of students who applied for the US match. +4 students who decided to stay in Israel for residency.

Each class starts with 63.

2013 - 47 US/ Canada matches
2014 - 56
2015 - 45
2016 - 68
2017 - 59
2018 - 49*
2019 - 57*

By graduation 86% of matriculates have matched into US/ Canadian residency programs over the past 7 years.**


*Excludes students who matriculated with the classes of '18 and '19 and are expected to enter the match next year with the class of '20.
**Excludes the small number of students who forego the match each year to do residency in Israel.
 
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For the record, the Sackler website is missing one of the matches in psychiatry, so technically it should be 57, not 56.
 
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Hey guys this was my first time applying. I applied in mid january, but have not heard back. My question is, if you get rejected do they tell you? I haven't been interviewed, and I assume there are no secondaries. So if they're silent I assume its a rejection? I emailed them two months ago to make sure they received everything and they told me they are in the process of reviewing all applications. Also at which point can I be certain that its a no like after May? Thank you =)
 
Hey guys this was my first time applying. I applied in mid january, but have not heard back. My question is, if you get rejected do they tell you? I haven't been interviewed, and I assume there are no secondaries. So if they're silent I assume its a rejection? I emailed them two months ago to make sure they received everything and they told me they are in the process of reviewing all applications. Also at which point can I be certain that its a no like after May? Thank you =)
Call them up on the phone and ask them
 
Hi y'all, current second year student here. Just here to quell your fears about getting in. I applied in January, interview invite in February, interviewed in March, waitlisted in April, accepted in June. It's completely normal for there to be a little lag in events.

I made sure to write the NY office a thank you letter after the interview, as well as a letter of interest after being waitlisted. It's also a good idea to call and ask whether they received said letter, what the mailing address is before sending the letter, etc. Essentially, just let them know you're interested but (of course) don't overcall/overwrite. Best of luck, see you in September!
 
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Do any current students know if lectures are recorded and posted online? I know that most of the schools where I interviewed have most/all lectures recorded. Even if many lectures are mandatory, it would be nice to have a lecture recording to refer back to.
 
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I'm told that they are not recorded.
Do any current students know if lectures are recorded and posted online? I know that most of the schools where I interviewed have most/all lectures recorded. Even if many lectures are mandatory, it would be nice to have a lecture recording to refer back to.
 
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Withdrew my acceptance. Hopefully the spot goes to one of you!
 
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Just got off the waitlist today! Very excited!
 
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