Will there ever be too many medical schools in the US?

[jakeislove]

The ones who I knew (n=1, I know) were Caribbean grads were essentially people whose parents (both physicians) could easily write them a check to pay for med school, so it wasn't surprising they didn't really care much. They always seemed to have a chip on the shoulder, but I don't know if it's bc they get sick of people asking where they go to school or the Caribbean really puts them thru the ringer with the weeding out process. Made things quite uncomfortable to talk without feeling like you were going to say something that might offend them.

I pretty much end up offending anyone who takes themselves too seriously. It's a gift I've been charged to share with the world.

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[PL198]

I pretty much end up offending anyone who takes themselves too seriously. It's a gift I've been charged to share with the world.

keep it up, one day these people will realize they're uptight b*tches

 

[DermViser]

I pretty much end up offending anyone who takes themselves too seriously. It's a gift I've been charged to share with the world.

That being said, there were definitely successful people who I met who did the Carribbean route who fell into several categories 1) Happen to fall on the side of not making it to a US MD school and could have easily gotten in (esp. if they had a different skin color), 2) People who didn't really try in college but did a complete, and I mean complete 180 in med school and ended up doing great in residency esp. in pressure-type situations (he ended up going into Pulm/Crit Care - he also wasn't embarrassed about his school either and would joke about how in college he didn't give a f-), 3) nontraditionals who just couldn't wait.

 

[Apoplexy__]

There shouldn't be and its more a function of politics(of the old guard) than function. On the MD side the second tier status of DO's hasn't helped bring the two together, on the DO side the old guards obsession with "distinctiveness" has prevented a merger. The two should be one and your residency placement should be entirely a function of your board scores, class rank, interview and EC's. I really do not understand why an MD PD would screen out a DO with an insanely high Step 1/2 just because of degree and on the flip side I do not get why OMM practitioners are so hostile to testing/shedding techniques that may not work.

Seriously, it's so hard to respect the AOA when they make demands they're not in a position to make, all in the name of our dubious "distinctiveness". I've always been kind of annoyed about this, but the discussions in this thread and elsewhere have really opened my eyes up to the political and economical waves caused by the AOA being desperate to maintain their identity.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

They really do. A lot of the time, IMGs and DOs won't even say what school they went to

...probably because without ever saying what school they went to, jerkoffs like you would have no idea it wasn't a US MD school.

 

[touchpause13]

I can feel the hate lol

 

[PL198]

Seriously, it's so hard to respect the AOA when they make demands they're not in a position to make, all in the name of our dubious "distinctiveness". I've always been kind of annoyed about this, but the discussions in this thread and elsewhere have really opened my eyes up to the political and economical waves caused by the AOA being desperate to maintain their identity.

What? Why would the AOA weigh the students equally, if their education isn't the same? I don't understand. Just because DOs are physicians doesn't somehow mean that the education they get is the same as what an MD student gets.

 

[Apoplexy__]

What? Why would the AOA weigh the students equally, if their education isn't the same? I don't understand. Just because DOs are physicians doesn't somehow mean that the education they get is the same as what an MD student gets.

???
Did you mean to reply to my post?

 

[touchpause13]

I don't see any real difference in the first 2 years (aside from OMM)

The problem is 3rd and 4th year depend highly on your school. I think that some are probably equivalent to MD schools, but others not so much.

 

[PL198]

???
Did you mean to reply to my post?

Yes but I might have misinterpreted it, can you clarify?

 

[Psai]

...probably because without ever saying what school they went to, jerkoffs like you would have no idea it wasn't a US MD school.

It's usually pretty obvious actually. But more like it's nice to know when someone's from your school and you have something in common to chat about, see how things changed since they graduated etc. Not my problem if you have a chip on your shoulder because you're feeling inadequate. My chief is from the Caribbean but she's been a great teacher and my favorite resident so far graduated from sgu

 

[Apoplexy__]

Yes but I might have misinterpreted it, can you clarify?

Ahhh I meant American Osteopathic Association, you thought I was saying Alpha Omega Alpha. Right?

I was just trying to say that the DO leaders are resistant to a lot of change that would be for the better. By not letting OMM be subject to intense and objective scrutiny, they devalue it. By taking such hard-line positions with the merger, they prevent an opportunity to increase the credibility of their training. In general, they seem to make a lot of sacrifices to maintain the separate identity of DO's, which is already minimal in the practical, real world. And by that I'm referring to the day-to-day practice of an MD vs. DO, and how us being more holistic is a huge delusion.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

It's usually pretty obvious actually. But more like it's nice to know when someone's from your school and you have something in common to chat about, see how things changed since they graduated etc. Not my problem if you have a chip on your shoulder because you're feeling inadequate. My chief is from the Caribbean but she's been a great teacher and my favorite resident so far graduated from sgu

Believe me I have no feelings of inadequacy. In fact, i have no problem at all letting my ability speak for itself. Thats why people dont talk about their alma mater like its a damn stepping stool. Its people who can't hack it who love to try to use their school to feel good about themselves.

Its also really cute how you want to generalize about other students already. You just started third year. You have maybe met 20 total students from outside of your little bubble.

 

[PL198]

Believe me I have no feelings of inadequacy. In fact, i have no problem at all letting my ability speak for itself. Thats why people dont talk about their alma mater like its a damn stepping stool. Its people who can't hack it who love to try to use their school to feel good about themselves.

Its also really cute how you want to generalize about other students already. You just started third year. You have maybe met 20 total students from outside of your little bubble.

People don't use it as a stepping stool, it's just a talking point... If I'm with a resident that sucks and they went to Harvard, that doesn't magically change my opinion of them sucking. I don't think anyone is like " BUT I WENT TO XYZ SCHOOL SO IM GOOD" like you make it sound. The fact that people don't want to mention it in casual conversation shows there's inadequacy. You just pulled the typical retort, no one was insulting anyone, but you turned it into a negative thing.

 

[jakeislove]

I wonder to what extent the merger will affect the holistic side of DO education.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

People don't use it as a stepping stool, it's just a talking point... If I'm with a resident that sucks and they went to Harvard, that doesn't magically change my opinion of them sucking. I don't think anyone is like " BUT I WENT TO XYZ SCHOOL SO IM GOOD" like you make it sound. The fact that people don't want to mention it in casual conversation shows there's inadequacy. You just pulled the typical retort, no one was insulting anyone, but you turned it into a negative thing.

We are saying the same thing. Your skills can and do speak for themselves. I just have no patience for people who after 2 months of rotations want to talk down on all of the (maybe 3) imgs and dos they have met....much like psai did earlier

 

[Psai]

Believe me I have no feelings of inadequacy. In fact, i have no problem at all letting my ability speak for itself. Thats why people dont talk about their alma mater like its a damn stepping stool. Its people who can't hack it who love to try to use their school to feel good about themselves.

Its also really cute how you want to generalize about other students already. You just started third year. You have maybe met 20 total students from outside of your little bubble.

Lmao never saw so many tears in response to a benign statement. This is exactly the kind of chip on the shoulder I'm talking about

 

[touchpause13]

I wonder to what extent the merger will affect the holistic side of DO education.

I don't see how it would seeing as the merger is about residencies and most DOs go to MD residencies as it already stands.

TBH aside from OMM I haven't encountered what is supposed to be distinctive about our education at all. I mean we have behavioral med and nutrition classes, but I would imagine such things are pretty standard.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

hahahahhahahahahhahah I LOVE This question!

Are you people kidding me. Do you guys look at acceptance rates to law School? Take PITT University School of Law, a very prestigious Law School. Obviously it isn't Harvard, but still excellent school, ranked in the top 30.

The acceptance rate is just under 30%. That's nearly a third of the only 1,500 applications. That is a huge difference from medical school acceptance rates. The U.S. could open 15 new medical schools and that would put a dent in the amount of people getting turned down. You don't even have to interview at most law schools, it's not even close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Pittsburgh_School_of_Law#Admissions

Yes residency is becoming more competitive because there is a surplus of people exiting medical school right now, but it's not the law school situation where pretty much anybody that wants to go can get their JD at some joke school, only to be jobless after words

There is a surplus of lawyers because it is simply easier to get into law school than medical school, much easier. Fact.

 

[username456789]

There is a surplus of lawyers because it is simply easier to get into law school than medical school, much easier. Fact.

Huh? There is a surplus of lawyers because there are more spots in law school than necessary to address the needs of our country. This isn't some complicated or secret formula. The standards of entrance have little to do with that. There are a given number of overall spots in law school, and schools will fill these spots in any way they see fit. If people of lower academic caliber are the ones filling those spots, that's just how it goes.

You're confusing an incidental outcome (lower stat people getting into law school) with a primary reason (size/number of law schools).

There are a bunch of low tier law schools that have popped up all over, just like there are a bunch of DO schools popping up all over, some of them pretty junky.

 

[shibby1111]

Very soon, unless the rate of seats being added slows or residency spots are added, there will be too many US med school grads for the number of residency slots. This is the biggest problem with adding seats....

The population is aging. Baby-boomers are getting older every day, which will mean a huge influx of patients that need treatment. Demand for physicians will not likely slow for quite a while, until the baby boomers start dying off in huge numbers (meaning not for decades) so barring a radical change in the number of residency slots training new doctors, it is unlikely that the market will become over-saturated with fully-trained physicians for quite a while. Having a large number of med school graduates that cannot get into residency programs, on the other hand, is a concern.......

The baby boomers had kids.

 

[theseeker4]

The baby boomers had kids.

Yes, and....?

 

[shibby1111]

Yes, and....?

And, the demand for physicians will continue to rise even after the baby boomers go extinct because the baby boomers had kids also. For example, my parents (both baby boomers) have 4 kids.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

Huh? There is a surplus of lawyers because there are more spots in law school than necessary to address the needs of our country. This isn't some complicated or secret formula. The standards of entrance have little to do with that. There are a given number of overall spots in law school, and schools will fill these spots in any way they see fit. If people of lower academic caliber are the ones filling those spots, that's just how it goes.

You're confusing an incidental outcome (lower stat people getting into law school) with a primary reason (size/number of law schools).

There are a bunch of low tier law schools that have popped up all over, just like there are a bunch of DO schools popping up all over, some of them pretty junky.

Let's go Blaming it on the D.O.s why don't we

 

[username456789]

Let's go Blaming it on the D.O.s why don't we

There are too many lawyers because of DO schools.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

There are too many lawyers because of DO schools.

Hahaha Touche Touche.

 

[PL198]

Let's go Blaming it on the D.O.s why don't we

No, even though DO is going out of style, the fact that they are building new ones just as fast as MD schools, even though MD has 90 % of the market share, how in the world would we ever blame DOs?

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

Ahhh I meant American Osteopathic Association, you thought I was saying Alpha Omega Alpha. Right?

I was just trying to say that the DO leaders are resistant to a lot of change that would be for the better. By not letting OMM be subject to intense and objective scrutiny, they devalue it. By taking such hard-line positions with the merger, they prevent an opportunity to increase the credibility of their training. In general, they seem to make a lot of sacrifices to maintain the separate identity of DO's, which is already minimal in the practical, real world. And by that I'm referring to the day-to-day practice of an MD vs. DO, and how us being more holistic is a huge delusion.

"I was just trying to say that the DO leaders are resistant to a lot of change that would be for the better." - They decided to merge w/ ACGME. Ya some of the things they do is pretty annoying to keep their autonomy but don't they have too or else why not just get rid of the profession completely. The leaders deserve some credit I think

 

[PL198]

hahahahhahahahahhahah I LOVE This question!

Are you people kidding me. Do you guys look at acceptance rates to law School? Take PITT University School of Law, a very prestigious Law School. Obviously it isn't Harvard, but still excellent school, ranked in the top 30.

The acceptance rate is just under 30%. That's nearly a third of the only 1,500 applications. That is a huge difference from medical school acceptance rates. The U.S. could open 15 new medical schools and that would put a dent in the amount of people getting turned down. You don't even have to interview at most law schools, it's not even close.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Pittsburgh_School_of_Law#Admissions

Yes residency is becoming more competitive because there is a surplus of people exiting medical school right now, but it's not the law school situation where pretty much anybody that wants to go can get their JD at some joke school, only to be jobless after words

There is a surplus of lawyers because it is simply easier to get into law school than medical school, much easier. Fact.

Don't really get what you're saying here. The fact that it's easier to get into law school is inherently due to the amount of spots. They want the best candidates they can get. PS I don't think you understand how law school works if you say top 30 is an excellent school. Once you get out of the top 14 law schools, you're screwed. I'm pretty sure I've talked to 10 people that are practicing attorneys and 9 of them literally said " I'd never advise someone to go into law unless they can get into the top 14."

 

[theseeker4]

And, the demand for physicians will continue to rise even after the baby boomers go extinct because the baby boomers had kids also. For example, my parents (both baby boomers) have 4 kids.

On average, the baby boomers had fewer children than their parents, and on average, the children of baby boomers have had fewer children than the boomers themselves. Also, your n=1 isn't exactly helpful when the statistical trends are well established.

 

[OCDEMS]

I saw this thread and was like, “Yep, $5 there is a DO vs. MD in this mother…”

Thanks SDN. You never disappoint.

The DO mission is very clear: 20% of all new graduates are DOs and, in my opinion, there is no reason why they won’t try to close the gap to 30-40% within a decade. As I’ve said in other threads, COCA and the AOA have an excellent business model. DO organizations have 28% of the new ACGME board, giving them tremendous power over residency accreditation. My guess is that COCA means to expand their influence by controlling a greater share of physician production for when it comes time to talk about consolidation on that front.

Academics: Love the DO model. There isn’t a “Should medical school be shorter?” article that doesn’t blatantly espouse, word for word, the DO education model. Larger student: faculty ratios and more rural and clinic-based rotations. Did anyone see the recent IOM report? It was basically canned AOA policies.

States: They love DO schools. Very little, if any, taxpayer support. They pop out doctors with a propensity for primary care. They open up in the middle of nowhere, satisfying the rural vote and improving access to healthcare.

Students: More and more students see it as $$$ in primary care. The writing is on the walls. You’ve got people clamoring for more primary care doctors and most people agree it’s inevitable that the feds are going to funnel more money that way. Plus, practicing OMT as a family practice physician instantly makes you a proceduralist. Find any DO who actually does it and then ask them how much they rake in. Say what you will about OMT, but Medicare and most private insurers eat that stuff up, placebo or not. Guess what? They pay.

More and more of your colleagues will be DOs and, inevitably, COCA will have influence when it comes to a possible merger with the LCME. Mid-level creep will be the big enemy at the gate and a lot of the COCA policies that you guys rant and rave about now (larger class sizes, community hospital rotations, etc.) will become necessary to survive in a world where the value of physician education is questioned at every corner. The public doesn’t value elitist arguments, however efficacious, about the need for research or dedicated academic medical centers or whatever else the allopathic world wants to shout about regarding DO education. They. Don’t. Care. In fact, despite 100 years of bickering, the DO is more popular than ever (see recent NYTimes article). The osteopathic profession has had over a century of being the minority. They're the scruffy kid in the parking lot. Small, but battle hardened. While I don't agree with every policy, I've come to slowly admire their tradition for shrewd, strategic brilliance in the public domain. Think about it: a small group of doctors who were started by a guy with a crazy hat and a bone in his hand now have a substantial seat at the table of the ACGME. 20% of all medical school graduates are DOs. That isn't a mistake; it's successive smart moves played out over a century of determined advancement.

That’s right, folks. Stop fighting with each other, because it won’t be DOs who are sullying the hard work we’ve all done to become physicians. The faster the two join together, the better for our profession (singular). Soon enough you’ll have another “doctor” to fight with about educational legitimacy: the DNP.

 

[PL198]

DOs aren't going to increase in number, they will decrease. With the way things are going, no one is going to settle for the second tier physician. There's no reason for the two to join together. It's just the fact, it's an inferior training system that has been tolerated in the past and will be destroyed as things get more competitive.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

: More and more students see it as $$$ in primary care.

Lol.

 

[DermViser]

I saw this thread and was like, “Yep, $5 there is a DO vs. MD in this mother…”

Thanks SDN. You never disappoint.

The DO mission is very clear: 20% of all new graduates are DOs and, in my opinion, there is no reason why they won’t try to close the gap to 30-40% within a decade. As I’ve said in other threads, COCA and the AOA have an excellent business model. DO organizations have 28% of the new ACGME board, giving them tremendous power over residency accreditation. My guess is that COCA means to expand their influence by controlling a greater share of physician production for when it comes time to talk about consolidation on that front.

Academics: Love the DO model. There isn’t a “Should medical school be shorter?” article that doesn’t blatantly espouse, word for word, the DO education model. Larger student: faculty ratios and more rural and clinic-based rotations. Did anyone see the recent IOM report? It was basically canned AOA policies.

States: They love DO schools. Very little, if any, taxpayer support. They pop out doctors with a propensity for primary care. They open up in the middle of nowhere, satisfying the rural vote and improving access to healthcare.

Students: More and more students see it as $$$ in primary care. The writing is on the walls. You’ve got people clamoring for more primary care doctors and most people agree it’s inevitable that the feds are going to funnel more money that way. Plus, practicing OMT as a family practice physician instantly makes you a proceduralist. Find any DO who actually does it and then ask them how much they rake in. Say what you will about OMT, but Medicare and most private insurers eat that stuff up, placebo or not. Guess what? They pay.

More and more of your colleagues will be DOs and, inevitably, COCA will have influence when it comes to a possible merger with the LCME. Mid-level creep will be the big enemy at the gate and a lot of the COCA policies that you guys rant and rave about now (larger class sizes, community hospital rotations, etc.) will become necessary to survive in a world where the value of physician education is questioned at every corner. The public doesn’t value elitist arguments, however efficacious, about the need for research or dedicated academic medical centers or whatever else the allopathic world wants to shout about regarding DO education. They. Don’t. Care. In fact, despite 100 years of bickering, the DO is more popular than ever (see recent NYTimes article). The osteopathic profession has had over a century of being the minority. They're the scruffy kid in the parking lot. Small, but battle hardened. While I don't agree with every policy, I've come to slowly admire their tradition for shrewd, strategic brilliance in the public domain. Think about it: a small group of doctors who were started by a guy with a crazy hat and a bone in his hand now have a substantial seat at the table of the ACGME. 20% of all medical school graduates are DOs. That isn't a mistake; it's successive smart moves played out over a century of determined advancement.

That’s right, folks. Stop fighting with each other, because it won’t be DOs who are sullying the hard work we’ve all done to become physicians. The faster the two join together, the better for our profession (singular). Soon enough you’ll have another “doctor” to fight with about educational legitimacy: the DNP.

Wow, so much utter fail in one post. Where to begin...

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Wow, so much utter fail in one post. Where to begin...

I picked the most obvious of many places to begin...

 

[OCDEMS]

DOs aren't going to increase in number, they will decrease. With the way things are going, no one is going to settle for the second tier physician. There's no reason for the two to join together. It's just the fact, it's an inferior training system that has been tolerated in the past and will be destroyed as things get more competitive.

LOL. I can't tell if you're being optimistic or are just ignoring the volumes of data in exact opposition to your point. DO schools are opening, not closing.

 

[DermViser]

I picked the most obvious of many places to begin...

I was more referring to OCDems post, with so many fallacies starting with, "DO organizations have 28% of the new ACGME board, giving them tremendous power over residency accreditation."

 

[OCDEMS]

Wow, so much utter fail in one post. Where to begin...

Well, I know you're typing. Can't wait to see why I'm an idiot. I had you in mind when I wrote that Like a moth to a light.

For the record, I personally don't see primary care ever being great money. My overarching point was that, if you're going to do primary care, the DO pathway is the way to go. I think a lot of people really don't realize how well these guys/gals are making in manipulation practices, even if it is a small boost in overall compensation.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

I was more referring to OCDems post, with so many fallacies starting with, "DO organizations have 28% of the new ACGME board, giving them tremendous power over residency accreditation."

Oh I completely agree with you. I just thought the biggest fallacy was the idea that students are flocking to primary care because they perceive it to be a big money maker. My side hurts from laughing at that one.

 

[OCDEMS]

I was more referring to OCDems post, with so many fallacies starting with, "DO organizations have 28% of the new ACGME board, giving them tremendous power over residency accreditation."

28% was the last number I read. Have you ever sat on a corporate board? I can tell you that 1/4 of the neccesary votes is a great way to hedge power for your pet projects. Eventually, other parties disagree. There always needs to be someone to break through the conflict and that someone usually needs a favor.

 

[DermViser]

Oh I completely agree with you. I just thought the biggest fallacy was the idea that students are flocking to primary care because they perceive it to be a big money maker. My side hurts from laughing at that one.

Or my favorite: "Plus, practicing OMT as a family practice physician instantly makes you a proceduralist".

Yes, he is doing OMT on a newborn.

 

[OCDEMS]

Oh I completely agree with you. I just thought the biggest fallacy was the idea that students are flocking to primary care because they perceive it to be a big money maker. My side hurts from laughing at that one.

You misunderstand me. I don't think primary care is either popular or a money maker and my post history would support that. I do think that DO students, in comparison to their MD counterparts, do enter into primary care in heavier numbers. Why go the MD route when it's already a less competitve speciality and overwhelming accepting of DOs. You have a skill that the other does not. That was my point. There are plenty of people in my class who made that exact calculation.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

You misunderstand me. I don't think primary care is either popular or a money maker and my post history would support that. I do think that DO students, in comparison to their MD counterparts, do enter into primary care in heavier numbers. Why go the MD route when it's already a less competitve speciality and overwhelming accepting of DOs. You have a skill that the other does not. That was my point. There are plenty of people in my class who made that exact calculation.

You say tomayto...I say tomahto. I would argue the DO students are pursuing primary care fields due to a dearth of other desirable options, not because they have an innate competitive advantage.

 

[DermViser]

You misunderstand me. I don't think primary care is either popular or a money maker and my post history would support that. I do think that DO students, in comparison to their MD counterparts, do enter into primary care in heavier numbers. Why go the MD route when it's already a less competitve speciality and overwhelming accepting of DOs. You have a skill that the other does not. That was my point. There are plenty of people in my class who made that exact calculation.

Can you think of ANOTHER reason why that is? Think hard.

 

[PL198]

LOL. I can't tell if you're being optimistic or are just ignoring the volumes of data in exact opposition to your point. DO schools are opening, not closing.

Ok and Idc. That doesn't mean people respect them or that they are getting jobs. Maybe rural TN, but until they start getting the top tier jobs, they're not getting anywhere. Sure increase the number of DOs to force out the IMGs, but guess who is next on the totem pole? DOs are. MD will always be top dog and people aren't going to settle for anything less than the best.

 

[PL198]

Or my favorite: "Plus, practicing OMT as a family practice physician instantly makes you a proceduralist".

Yes, he is doing OMT on a newborn.

lol I'm not quick to throw the word "quack" out, but I'm really really really close with OMT.

 

[OCDEMS]

Or my favorite: "Plus, practicing OMT as a family practice physician instantly makes you a proceduralist".

Bring the hate. Seriously, you make my day. I literally sat and waited for you to pounce. Is it sad or impressive that your presence on SDN is so ubiquitous?

Edit: Impressive. You do add some value to this place or I wouldn't get so much enjoyment out of this.

 

[PL198]

You misunderstand me. I don't think primary care is either popular or a money maker and my post history would support that. I do think that DO students, in comparison to their MD counterparts, do enter into primary care in heavier numbers. Why go the MD route when it's already a less competitve speciality and overwhelming accepting of DOs. You have a skill that the other does not. That was my point. There are plenty of people in my class who made that exact calculation.

DOs have a skill MDs don't? Dear god, you don't mean OMT, do you? LOL look up some research on that please. There have been many reviews that show it's not effective. Keep smoking that good stuff your admins feed you though. Yeah you're not inferior, just every PD in America would look down on you vs your MD counterpart of the exact same stats. Whatever you have to tell yourself.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

28% was the last number I read. Have you ever sat on a corporate board? I can tell you that 1/4 of the neccesary votes is a great way to hedge power for your pet projects. Eventually, other parties disagree. There always needs to be someone to break through the conflict and that someone usually needs a favor.

Let's be clear on something.

The ACGME/AOA residency merger was a capitulation on the part of DOs. Nothing less than a surrender. Because DOs had no leverage to bring to the negotiation table, and the reason the whole thing stalled in the first place was because the DO side tried to play tough with the ACGME and the ACGME told them to go suck an egg.

But the DOs came back. Because they had no leverage. And if ACGME slots were closed to them their business model was absolutely screwed. So they caved.

Now DO students are trying to cling to this 28% number to prove that they really totally definitely do have some power. It's a face-saving attempt.

The good news is, all residency programs will be subject to the same (better) standards in the near future. Some of the existing DO programs will either need to shape up, or close shop.

 

[DermViser]

Bring the hate. Seriously, you make my day.

You're right. Doing OMT on a newborn infant is perfectly normal. Carry on.