Who should wear the white coat?

[HamOnWholeWheat]

Have you ever been in an OR ?

And yes, the patient doesn't need to know a thing after someone put that bar-coded wristband on him in the pre-procedure area.

Too funny, I was gonna ask you the same question, but I figured you would just say yes regardless so I didn't bother. I've been unlucky enough to see both sides of the equation. I was a surgical tech for a year, and I had surgery two years ago for an embarressing problem below with the 'ole family jewels. Granted, I'm not a surgeon, but I do know what the environment is like, and it sucks bad enough for the patient as it is, without the ambiguity of not knowing who the hell anyone is. I guess we just disagree on that one.

Btw. there ARE surgeons with marine corps tatoos who will occasionally push some equipment cart into the OR because the rotator is nowhere to be found

How about an old Chair Force guy with a block-30 Viper on his shoulder. Getting hammered with the flight crew seemed like a good idea at the time. Hindsight is 20/20 my friend.

HamOn

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[f_w]

and it sucks bad enough for the patient as it is, without the ambiguity of not knowing who the hell anyone is.

I guess in your world people don't introduce themselves. So you want to drive up the cost of running an OR so the patients feel better ? There is no operational need for a color code. (Different from for example the ER or the floors, the OR is a very controlled environment. People just know who does what, except for the 3rd year medstudent there is nobody who could get confused.)

 

[btmed772]

It's tough not to care a little about your white coat when so many medical schools inaugurate their medical students with a "White Coat Ceremony." There certainly is a sense of hard-earned achievment.

That being said, I don't care who wears a white coat. Like people say, it is everyone's duty to properly introduce themselves to patients.

 

[Flopotomist]

There's a reason why Assistant is in the name and not Physician. .

Uhm.. this struck me as really funny. What do you think the P is for in PA? Just being technical here lol.

 

[GoofyDoc]

Me: "Oh sorry. You over there, could you get me some coffee?"
Surgeon: "I AM the damn doctor, and you just bought yourself an extra night of call, newbie!"
Me: "eek."

HA! I was just scrolling thru this thread, and I just had to reply that this exact situation happened to me. Right before the attending started the procedure (whatever it was) he told me, the lowly medical student, to run out and get something beofre they start (forget what, this was years ago). So I run out and I see a guy in scrubs sitting with his back to me in the nurses' station. He looked just like every other janitor, etc that worked in the OR. So I start barking orders - "Hey yo, could you go to the stock room and get bla bla bla and bring it over to OR room 5.." He turned around and I found myself face to face with the clerkship director! Boy did I want to drop dead that minute.

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

1) I guess in your world people don't introduce themselves.

2) So you want to drive up the cost of running an OR so the patients feel better ? There is no operational need for a color code. (Different from for example the ER or the floors, the OR is a very controlled environment. People just know who does what, except for the 3rd year medstudent there is nobody who could get confused.)

1) No. I have to introduce myself as a medical student (i.e. not a Doctor) to every patient I talk to on the wards. Most times the patient doesn't register it, and goes on talking as though I were a Doctor. If I later again make the point that I'm a medical student (which is usually around the time they're asking "so what's wrong with me" and I have a confused look on my face), patient's have implied that it was a betrayal of trust that I hadn't clarified it immediately, even though I had. A different uniform would make it a lot easier for everyone, as there would be less assumption of roles made by the patient.

2) Yes. Absolutely. If it makes that experience any less horrifying, do it. Remember: we've been talking about everyone's role being clear to the patient, right? All of this talk of "operational need" is irrelevant to the thread. The person who brought up the medical student being confused in the OR was just making a tangent joke to lighten the conversation up.

BTW, do you think changing the color of a set of scrubs represents a significant cost burden, or were you just making a point? I'm sure the manufacturer has more than one color, and I'm betting they don't charge more for them, if it makes you feel better.

HamOn

 

[f_w]

patient's have implied that it was a betrayal of trust that I hadn't clarified it immediately, even though I had. A different uniform would make it a lot easier for everyone, as there would be less assumption of roles made by the patient.

Congratulations, patients assume you are a doctor, because you act like a doctor (by asking them about their health, doing a physical exam etc). If they don't catch it during your introduction, why do you think some color code would make a difference ?

2) Yes. Absolutely. If it makes that experience any less horrifying, do it.

Proper pre-medication with something like 5mg of diazepam or some halcyon would have made your experience less horrifying.

BTW, do you think changing the color of a set of scrubs represents a significant cost burden, or were you just making a point? I'm sure the manufacturer has more than one color, and I'm betting they don't charge more for them, if it makes you feel better.

The cost for a hospital to stock 8 different colors of scrubs in 6 different sizes will undoubtedly go up (not by a factor of 8, but up)

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

Congratulations, patients assume you are a doctor, because you act like a doctor (by asking them about their health, doing a physical exam etc). If they don't catch it during your introduction, why do you think some color code would make a difference ?



Proper pre-medication with something like 5mg of diazepam or some halcyon would have made your experience less horrifying.



The cost for a hospital to stock 8 different colors of scrubs in 6 different sizes will undoubtedly go up.

Ok, you sold me. Behaving like a doctor is enough to establish who's the Doctor vs. Nurse vs. PA vs. Med Student in the eyes of the patient. The patient doesn't need to know anything about the people around them in the OR, and if they seem concerned, push drugs. And for god's sake, keep the scrubs one color, or else the hospital will go bankrupt, because there's apparently a premium on different colors of scrubs.

FWIW, I never advocated the color-coding in the OR, unless it helped relieve patient stress (I think you always assumed whenever I said "uniform" that meant "scrubs", because you're talking exclusively in the OR for some reason). The context of the thread was "who should wear the white coat" on the wards. You jumped on someone's tangential joke and dilligently poked holes in it with your OR experience, but it was completely out of context of the discussion. I was responding to your statements that the patients didn't need to know anything. I think you may have lumped other people's arguments into mine.


Consider me set straight though.

HamOn

 

[f_w]

Behaving like a doctor is enough to establish who's the Doctor vs. Nurse vs. PA

Ever dealt with the cops ? If my life depended on it, I couldn't tell you what rank the various stripes and stars on their uniform actually translate into. But I know when I talk to the lieutenant, not because of his insignia, but because he acts the role.

The patient doesn't need to know anything about the people around them in the OR,

They might as well (and frequently are) unconsious.

or else the hospital will go bankrupt, because there's apparently a premium on different colors of scrubs.

Won't go broke. Just burn a lot of money which could be used to purchase necessary equipment (different from the personal embroidered scrubs worn by people on the floors or in the ER, the hospital foots the bill for the OR scrubs).

(If you read back, there are a couple of occasions where I noted that 'on the floors' or 'in the ED' some sort of color code might actually make sense. It would be silly, but it might make sense. I have actually worked at a place where the RNs had different colors from the LPNS and the LPNS from the PCAs and the PCAs from EVS....Still, working there you better learned the staff names, rather than addressing them as 'hey nurse' or 'you, PCA there')

 

[leviathan]

I've seen it in action a few times, and recently with a PA where after a thoracentesis the pt looked directly at the PA and said thanks DOC The thing that makes it even worse is the fact that the PA didn't correct him.
Something else that annoys me is that I'm wearing a short coat, while everyone around me is wearing the long coat, be they pro's or not. I always thought that the white coat was a mark of distinction.

Dude, this pretty much sums up your egotistical attitude right there. WHO CARES if the patient thought the PA was a physician, and WHO CARES if he didn't correct him??? Give up this whole "confusion" excuse, the patient was not confused whatsoever. He was absolutely sure that this PA was a physician, and all that matters is that he had a person, physician or not, who helped him out. If the PA is trying to pass himself off as a physician, then he is a *****, but in all likelihood he has just become tired of correcting patients day in and day for calling him "doctor". Again, even if he was trying to pass himself off as a physician, you still shouldn't get your panties all in a bunch over it. What did mommy and daddy tell you at the boating club about people pretending to be like you? They're just jealous, so you should be flattered and not insulted.

 

[lvspro]

Dude, this pretty much sums up your egotistical attitude right there. WHO CARES if the patient thought the PA was a physician, and WHO CARES if he didn't correct him??? Give up this whole "confusion" excuse, the patient was not confused whatsoever. He was absolutely sure that this PA was a physician, and all that matters is that he had a person, physician or not, who helped him out. If the PA is trying to pass himself off as a physician, then he is a *****, but in all likelihood he has just become tired of correcting patients day in and day for calling him "doctor". Again, even if he was trying to pass himself off as a physician, you still shouldn't get your panties all in a bunch over it. What did mommy and daddy tell you at the boating club about people pretending to be like you? They're just jealous, so you should be flattered and not insulted.

Beating a dead horse

 

[ForbiddenComma]

I'm actually not a 3rd year... I'm just a 1st year, but my school has this program where you work sort of like an M3 once a month for a few hours. Most people are assigned to FPs or internists but I lucked out and got a GS.

I really do get confused the way I described in my little vignette. Yesterday, I went up to what I thought was a tech to ask where my preceptor was... naturally it turned out to be another surgeon. And during an operation, I thought this dude was an assisting surgeon for the longest time until he blurted out that he'd been working as a tech for 10 years or something like that. Color coded scrubs would make life much easier for students, and hey, we're the most important people in the hospital, right??

Also, I think the short white coats look really dorky on a big huge guy like myself but what gives me the right to wear even that on rounds? I know less than the average janitor about pharm or preop procedures, and yet I'm giving hospitalized patients workups like I know what I'm doing. "Oh, those little white spots in his liver on that CT are nothing, I'm sure." "What's that? You feel like an elephant is sitting on your chest? I'm sure it's nothing, ask the nurse for some tylenol."

Anyway, some kind of standardized uniform for each type of hospital worker would be nice, but I feel lucky just to be a part of the process at all, even as a scutmonkey. My bachelor's was in journalism (not english lit, but almost as useless ) and it's nice to be actually doing something, not just writing about others doing it. fwiw...

 

[lvspro]

I'm actually not a 3rd year... I'm just a 1st year, but my school has this program where you work sort of like an M3 once a month for a few hours. Most people are assigned to FPs or internists but I lucked out and got a GS.

I really do get confused the way I described in my little vignette. Yesterday, I went up to what I thought was a tech to ask where my preceptor was... naturally it turned out to be another surgeon. And during an operation, I thought this dude was an assisting surgeon for the longest time until he blurted out that he'd been working as a tech for 10 years or something like that. Color coded scrubs would make life much easier for students, and hey, we're the most important people in the hospital, right??

Also, I think the short white coats look really dorky on a big huge guy like myself but what gives me the right to wear even that on rounds? I know less than the average janitor about pharm or preop procedures, and yet I'm giving hospitalized patients workups like I know what I'm doing. "Oh, those little white spots in his liver on that CT are nothing, I'm sure." "What's that? You feel like an elephant is sitting on your chest? I'm sure it's nothing, ask the nurse for some tylenol."

Anyway, some kind of standardized uniform for each type of hospital worker would be nice, but I feel lucky just to be a part of the process at all, even as a scutmonkey. My bachelor's was in journalism (not english lit, but almost as useless ) and it's nice to be actually doing something, not just writing about others doing it. fwiw...

Hey FC, have you had a chance to do any anesthesiology days?

 

[ForbiddenComma]

Hey FC, have you had a chance to do any anesthesiology days?

No, they won't let me kill patients that way... "hehe, what does this knob do?" ... "Patient's in V-fib, call a code!"

They figure that I can't get into much trouble just holding the retractor. Although, I really should not have played "Hide the 4x4" with the last patient. The team thought it was a lot less fun than I did.

 

[underwater]

You are absolutely correct. If you're not a doctor, don't wear a long white coat. Period.

Nope. At our hospital the nurse practitioners wear the long white coat all the time. Patients don't seem to mind, and the NPs are doing doctor's work. I usually end up taking mine off, anyway-- gets too hot by the end of the day in our busy clinic and I feel all boxed in. I just drape a stethoscope around my neck so people can identify me as a "medical person."

 

[toofache32]

Nope. At our hospital the nurse practitioners wear the long white coat all the time. Patients don't seem to mind, and the NPs are doing doctor's work. I usually end up taking mine off, anyway-- gets too hot by the end of the day in our busy clinic and I feel all boxed in.

Patients don't mind because NOBODY CARES EXCEPT LOWLY PUNK MED STUDENTS. I'm amazed this thread is still going. At least I'm being entertained.

I just drape a stethoscope around my neck so people can identify me as a "medical person."

I hope you're kidding. If not, you gotta quit watching so much TV. And why do you care if people identify you as a "medical person?"

 

[WestCoast]

Patients don't mind because NOBODY CARES EXCEPT LOWLY PUNK MED STUDENTS. I'm amazed this thread is still going. At least I'm being entertained.


I hope you're kidding. If not, you gotta quit watching so much TV. And why do you care if people identify you as a "medical person?"

because its COOOOL and SEXY!!!!

 

[fab4fan]

I'm an RN, and let me tell you why I have a long white lab coat.

I had limited time to shop, so I ran into a uniform store, grabbed the first coat I saw in my size that was on sale, paid for it and left.

Would I be put out if people who weren't nurses suddenly started wearing caps? No...in fact, I'd probably be laughing like crazy. Sure, it was a big deal when I got my cap 20y ago, but now I understand that symbols don't make the professional.

Now, someone who isn't a doc allowing patients to believe he is, and not correcting the matter when it comes up...that's a problem.

 

[blueclassring]

 

[silas2642]

It's tough not to care a little about your white coat when so many medical schools inaugurate their medical students with a "White Coat Ceremony." There certainly is a sense of hard-earned achievment.

That being said, I don't care who wears a white coat. Like people say, it is everyone's duty to properly introduce themselves to patients.

I don't care who is wearing the white coat either, just as long as they are wearing something under it because my coworkers and I are fat and ugly. FAT not PHAT.

 

[RefractoryMD]

Going back to original post, back in the day I was a lowly volunteer who got accepted into a program that hospital set up where us barely post-pubescent kids were allowed to shadow doctors in different specialties. One of the perks of this program was that we got long lab coats with our names embroidered above the breast pocket. I was shadowing a GS and scrubbing in on surgeries which was another perk of this program (purelyfor viewing pleasure, not to help...duh). I walked out of the OR and this nurse runs up to me babbling about the tx for patient X in room Y with a complaint of Z. I had to let her go easily by telling her I wasnt a doc and was only 14 years old (I was a tall 14 year old). I hadn't known the extent to which adults could swear.

Point of the matter, I had absolutely no medical experience and was mistaken for a doc. I am dubious about PA's wearing a coat and I completely disagree with NP's doing it. I love RN's to death, but NP's kinda piss me off because most of the ones I've met are A R R O G A N T. PA's rock. To finish with my opinion, I believe that if a patient is getting the best care from a HCP and cant distinguish between the three positions, then so bloody what. They are getting the care and thats what matters most. Any disagreement with positional dress code is good to have on a forum such as this one where I can freely bash on what I really think cuz hell, i love griping, just not at work.

 

[21JumpStreet]

Going back to original post, back in the day I was a lowly volunteer who got accepted into a program that hospital set up where us barely post-pubescent kids were allowed to shadow doctors in different specialties. One of the perks of this program was that we got long lab coats with our names embroidered above the breast pocket. I was shadowing a GS and scrubbing in on surgeries which was another perk of this program (purelyfor viewing pleasure, not to help...duh). I walked out of the OR and this nurse runs up to me babbling about the tx for patient X in room Y with a complaint of Z. I had to let her go easily by telling her I wasnt a doc and was only 14 years old (I was a tall 14 year old). I hadn't known the extent to which adults could swear.

Point of the matter, I had absolutely no medical experience and was mistaken for a doc. I am dubious about PA's wearing a coat and I completely disagree with NP's doing it. I love RN's to death, but NP's kinda piss me off because most of the ones I've met are A R R O G A N T. PA's rock. To finish with my opinion, I believe that if a patient is getting the best care from a HCP and cant distinguish between the three positions, then so bloody what. They are getting the care and thats what matters most. Any disagreement with positional dress code is good to have on a forum such as this one where I can freely bash on what I really think cuz hell, i love griping, just not at work.

I can see how frustrating this must have been for you and the nurse! A lot of time can be wasted when stuff like this happens.

 

[nitecap]

Who cares about the stupid white coat. As a RN I could be in freaking pink scrubs(never wore them) and my pt's especially older ones still refered to me as Doc despite me continuously reminding them of me being a RN. I think older peeps still just see the males as the doc and females as the RN. People can wear what they want man, just because the MD profession has this whole white coat crap doesnt mean the rest of every other healtcare profession must comply to the gay rules. I think the little short white coats are rather gay, especially in an over weight male med student, but hey its not for me to worry about. A coat is a coat no matter white or purple, people need to merely correct any misconceptions if and when they occur. Last time I check an individual profession can't claim a certain article of clothing, especially something as general as a white coat. Chefs in the hospital cafateria wear white coats for peaks sakes. Anyone could mistake this chef for a hlth care practictioner for a distance.

As a CRNA student pt's everyday still call me doc, even though its says SRNA and RN on my coat. Its just one of those things man, if it hurts the ego that bad then so be it, coat or not as long as the pt gets good care thats all that matters. It doesnt matter if your butt assssssss naked, we all still have a job to do.

 

[21JumpStreet]

Who cares about the stupid white coat. As a RN I could be in freaking pink scrubs(never wore them) and my pt's especially older ones still refered to me as Doc despite me continuously reminding them of me being a RN. I think older peeps still just see the males as the doc and females as the RN. People can wear what they want man, just because the MD profession has this whole white coat crap doesnt mean the rest of every other healtcare profession must comply to the gay rules. I think the little short white coats are rather gay, especially in an over weight male med student, but hey its not for me to worry about. A coat is a coat no matter white or purple, people need to merely correct any misconceptions if and when they occur. Last time I check an individual profession can't claim a certain article of clothing, especially something as general as a white coat. Chefs in the hospital cafateria wear white coats for peaks sakes. Anyone could mistake this chef for a hlth care practictioner for a distance.

As a CRNA student pt's everyday still call me doc, even though its says SRNA and RN on my coat. Its just one of those things man, if it hurts the ego that bad then so be it, coat or not as long as the pt gets good care thats all that matters. It doesnt matter if your butt assssssss naked, we all still have a job to do.

I think many people on here are honestly concerned about being able to identify a physician from other health care professionals. Being able to do so benefits everyone including patients. It is just a few that are using this as an excuse to cover up their huge ego.

 

[Dr JPH]

I think many people on here are honestly concerned about being able to identify a physician from other health care professionals. Being able to do so benefits everyone including patients. It is just a few that are using this as an excuse to cover up their huge ego.

I agree with this to a certain extent.

What I think is truly funny is that most docs dont even wear and dont like white coats...its generally the residents and students who need the coats to carry all the books.

The people I see wearing the coats most often seem to be Nutrition and the Nursing Supervisors. I guess they are always chilly.

 

[10/10]

As a RN I could be in freaking pink scrubs(never wore them) ... just because the MD profession has this whole white coat crap doesnt mean the rest of every other healtcare profession must comply to the gay rules ... I think the little short white coats are rather gay, especially in an over weight male med student, but hey its not for me to worry about ...

I'm sensing a little bit of sexual confusion here.. Or did you mean that the short coats make you happy?

 

[MikeyLu2010]

I just read this whole thread in one sitting..all 226 posts...and yes..i am quite entertained...i wish i had popcorn anyways ..because of my very limited experience in the hospital setting as a medical student/doctor..i will not post any feedback..keep em coming..im looking forward to more entertaining posts..

 

[silas2642]

Who cares about the stupid white coat. As a RN I could be in freaking pink scrubs(never wore them) and my pt's especially older ones still refered to me as Doc despite me continuously reminding them of me being a RN. I think older peeps still just see the males as the doc and females as the RN. People can wear what they want man, just because the MD profession has this whole white coat crap doesnt mean the rest of every other healtcare profession must comply to the gay rules. I think the little short white coats are rather gay, especially in an over weight male med student, but hey its not for me to worry about. A coat is a coat no matter white or purple, people need to merely correct any misconceptions if and when they occur. Last time I check an individual profession can't claim a certain article of clothing, especially something as general as a white coat. Chefs in the hospital cafateria wear white coats for peaks sakes. Anyone could mistake this chef for a hlth care practictioner for a distance.

As a CRNA student pt's everyday still call me doc, even though its says SRNA and RN on my coat. Its just one of those things man, if it hurts the ego that bad then so be it, coat or not as long as the pt gets good care thats all that matters. It doesnt matter if your butt assssssss naked, we all still have a job to do.

I must say, I don't really give a crap on who wears a white coat. However, your post does bring up two pressing issues in the field of healthcare. One is the pink scrubs-- I think they're absurd. Healthcare professionals walking around a hospital looking like a giant bottle of peptol bismol makes me want to, well, puke. I don't mind the occassional pink, but come on guys, head to toe? I applaud the fact that you have never worn pink scrubs.

The second issue that you bring up is, why white? I agree. White should never be worn after Labor day, particularly in a hospital full of alleged professionals who are usually overweight and somewhat ugly. White just accentuates our already well-rounded hips and bulging tummies, and I believe that it we would be well advised to wear a different color; blue for instance. However, I have been unable to find these lab coats in colors other than white, which truly annoys me. Not only that, but white shows everything. In a work environment where your clients are constantly puking and crapping on you, I propose that perhaps we should all wear brown scrubs as to hide the disgusting deposits our patients leave on us.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

Fashion scrubs and coats! Of course, this makes sense. It was never clear to me why other professionals such as lawyers often care so much about their appearace, while healthcare professionals seek 1) either the monochrome sensibilities of a Teletubby or 2) a blood-showing coat normally reserved for the local butcher.

actually, for a few docs I've met, I guess a butcher's coat DOES make sense

 

[Soup]

Fashion scrubs and coats! Of course, this makes sense. It was never clear to me why other professionals such as lawyers often care so much about their appearace, while healthcare professionals seek 1) either the monochrome sensibilities of a Teletubby or 2) a blood-showing coat normally reserved for the local butcher.

actually, for a few docs I've met, I guess a butcher's coat DOES make sense

FC what are you doing posting on SDN less than 20 min. before a phys test?! BTW I'm curious if you agree with my post in class thread.

 

[ForbiddenComma]

The phys test was nuthin... but ya I agree about the brutal nature of Helmkamp's section. From what I gather, everyone else does too.

He made me very sad.

 

[ambernikel]

"""I've seen it in action a few times, and recently with a PA where after a thoracentesis the pt looked directly at the PA and said thanks DOC The thing that makes it even worse is the fact that the PA didn't correct him.""""
Was the PA performing the thoracentesis? He/She probably informed the pt that they were a PA. But after someone puts a needle in your chest, thanks Doc, is not entriely inappropriate. As discussed in previous threads, "Doc" dropping does imply that the pt thought he was talking to his attending physician. Pt's don't understand all the hoopla.
It is every one;s job to introduce themself appropriately though.
I'm a PA obviously. I get called nurse all the time, despite my pager going off q2 min. and a white coat. That is because I am female. Female trumps white coat.
I do function as house staff, so I am issued a white coat by my bosses.
I do, however, understand all of your frustrations with being a med student. Respiratory, case management, nutrtion, lab, etc all where long coats, but you get stuck with the short ones. Just remember, soon enough you'll be the Doc and get to where or not where any coat you want. And while patients sometomes don't understand what a PA is, when you do in and say I'm Dr. So-So, there is usaully little confusion.

I'm a clinic tech aka gopher or nurse assistant in my spare time. I'm not even a nurse and I wasn't wearing any coat. But the other day I walked in a room to double check a laceration that a new tech had cleaned. I began asking the normal questions to make sure they were ok. They said "well doc, does he need stitches?". I had to giggle to myself. I explained I wasn't the doctor but that they'd (notice i don't say he or she) will be here in a moment. Hahaha. I'm a female too. So sometimes just having a bit of confidence will make people think you're a doctor. I think they are just looking for someone to help them regardless of the coat. But yeah as I am going to start med school in the fall, I see the white coat as a privilege. But most of our docs don't wear them unless the thermostat is exceptionally chilly. We differentiate by the scrub colors and the doctors (navy blue) have their name and title on the their scrub top.

 

[toofache32]

I'm a clinic tech aka gopher or nurse assistant in my spare time. I'm not even a nurse and I wasn't wearing any coat. But the other day I walked in a room to double check a laceration that a new tech had cleaned. I began asking the normal questions to make sure they were ok. They said "well doc, does he need stitches?". I had to giggle to myself. I explained I wasn't the doctor but that they'd (notice i don't say he or she) will be here in a moment. Hahaha. I'm a female too. So sometimes just having a bit of confidence will make people think you're a doctor. I think they are just looking for someone to help them regardless of the coat. But yeah as I am going to start med school in the fall, I see the white coat as a privilege. But most of our docs don't wear them unless the thermostat is exceptionally chilly. We differentiate by the scrub colors and the doctors (navy blue) have their name and title on the their scrub top.

That's a good lookin' weimaraner. I have 2 labs. Anyway, back to the thread.

 

[joedoctor]

Maybe the patients will become so confused with who the actual doctor is, that when they decide to sue you, they won't remember if it was the PA/phlebotomist/RN etc who screwed them when they testify in court

 

[Kuba]

i'm bumping this thread just because it is so hilarious

 

[MacGyver]

It's tough not to care a little about your white coat when so many medical schools inaugurate their medical students with a "White Coat Ceremony."

This is spot on. Med schools shovel us a bunch of **** about how we're so privileged and precious to dawn the awesome white coat, and they feed us a bunch of crap about how symbolic it is. Of course nursing schools, pharm schools, dental schools, and technician schools do exactly the same thing.

Its all bull****. White coats dont mean ****. It doesnt mean you take care of patients, it doenst mean you practice medicine. It doesnt mean anything.

Thats my real problem here. Talk to your med school deans and tell them to quit feeding us this manure.

 

[MacGyver]

Another thing that pisses me off about the stupid white coat is that med schools REQUIRE US TO WEAR THEM. Thats total bull****.

As long as we are dressed professionally, we should not have to wear them on the wards. After all, the only purpose of a white coat is to hold books and pens. It has absolutely nothing to do with your clinical duties, your "professionalism". It means absolutely nothing at all.

I'm so sick of the idiot administrators (usually clerkship secretaries) who keep feeding us this tired BS about how we are "required" twear the coat on the wards. It serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever. I'm sure they could care less whether I have enough pockets to put my little books in or not.

Med school administrators and clerkship coordinators keep misrepresenting this white coat nonsense, building it up into some huge deal. Its a load of crap.

 

[MacGyver]

Now its the nursing schools want their own white coat ceremonies

http://nursing.unlv.edu/whatsnew.html#wc

Could the white coat be any more meaningless?

Although its been rendered meaningless I will restate the history of the white coat:

Mid 1800s-early 1900s: Due to rampant snake oil practice, the medical "profession" is viewed as a bunch of charlatans.

Early 1900s: Infamous Flexner report revolutionizes medical education, using Johns Hopkins as the ideal model of a med school. Many charlatan med schools are closed, the remaining programs change their curriculum to be similar to Hopkins.

About the same time, in order to improve the status of the profession, doctors adopted the white coat previously in use by only scientists. The white coat symbolized the shift from snake oil medical practice to scientifically based medical practice. The white coat becomes a public symbol for the first time, since the public generally has very little exposure to scientists and has no understanding of what they do.

Early 1900s to 1980s: doctors are the only ones wearing white coats, nurses wear white caps and suits, the world is in order and everybody is happy.

1980s and forward: other health professions become jealous of the hightened status that doctors have achieved, and decide that they can try to mimic doctors by having their own white coats. Massive white coat abuse ensues.

So to sum up, doctors stole the white coat from scientists, and then everybody else stole the white coat from doctors. In both cases, it was a grab for prestige and nothing more.

 

[VeerTheTIGuy]

Here in the UK, no one wears white coats. They're seen as a MRSA/HAI risk.

 

[Hard24Get]

As a med student, I think the obvious solution is that since everyone now wears white coats, the physician needs something new to differentiate himself. Therefore, I propose that physicians should now wear regal robes and a crown.

This should help secure their place as lords and masters of all they see. Their status as being above the unwashed masses will forever be unassailable. In addition, attendings should get a scepter of ruling to differentiate themselves from the lower residents. The chief should also get that orb thingie, it can even double as a pager. "Excuse me, my orb is going off. Looks like the ED is paging me again."

This would also help MDs deal with title-inflation. Everyone is calling themselves doctors these days, even chiropracters, right? Well, let them. The physician shall now be referred only as Lord. Another perk is getting to use the royal "we" and as everyone knows, the royal "we" rocks.

"Greetings my subject. We are Lord Smith, and we will deign to lay hands upon you to cure your ailments. Now then, have you passed gas today?"

Of course, the upshot for me is that if physicians are the kings, then I am surely the prince. Therefore, I should also be issued regal robes, but just have a crown with slightly fewer jewels.

 

[Tired]

As long as we are dressed professionally, we should not have to wear them on the wards. After all, the only purpose of a white coat is to hold books and pens. It has absolutely nothing to do with your clinical duties, your "professionalism". It means absolutely nothing at all.

For those of us who still believe in the leadership role of the physician, the white coat means a lot. To me, the coat is not just to "hold books and pens", it is part of the uniform that identifies me as a medical student. And while I absolutely hate the student coat (and look forward to burning it as soon as I graduate), I wear it constantly, to remind myself and everyone else who I am. The day I put on my long white coat will be very meaningful to me, and that's coming from a ridiculously jaded and angry person.

I believe that the expansion of the white coat to other Allied Health professionals is both unfortunate and inappropriate. It continues to hold meaning to me. I suspect, MacGyver, that it also holds meaning to you, otherwise you wouldn't mind one bit about nursing and other professionals appropriating it.

I will continue to wear the coat as a mark of my profession, and I will be proud doing it. I suspect that, deep down, most non-physicians who wear it recognize that they shouldn't be.

 

[Tired]

Here in the UK, no one wears white coats. They're seen as a MRSA/HAI risk.

What a crock of ****. (You're also the nation where surgeons are called "Mister" rather than "Doctor", correct?)

Soon UK docs will go completely naked, to prevent the MRSA/HAI risk associated with pants . . .

 

[toofache32]

For those of us who still believe in the leadership role of the physician, the white coat means a lot. To me, the coat is not just to "hold books and pens", it is part of the uniform that identifies me as a medical student. And while I absolutely hate the student coat (and look forward to burning it as soon as I graduate), I wear it constantly, to remind myself and everyone else who I am. The day I put on my long white coat will be very meaningful to me, and that's coming from a ridiculously jaded and angry person.

I believe that the expansion of the white coat to other Allied Health professionals is both unfortunate and inappropriate. It continues to hold meaning to me. I suspect, MacGyver, that it also holds meaning to you, otherwise you wouldn't mind one bit about nursing and other professionals appropriating it.

I will continue to wear the coat as a mark of my profession, and I will be proud doing it. I suspect that, deep down, most non-physicians who wear it recognize that they shouldn't be.

Are you also one of those people who hangs your stethoscope from the rear-view mirror?

 

[Tired]

Are you also one of those people who hangs your stethoscope from the rear-view mirror?

How droll. How's nursing school working out?

 

[MirrorTodd]

Good lord, this is an old thread. I love it.

 

[VeerTheTIGuy]

What a crock of ****. (You're also the nation where surgeons are called "Mister" rather than "Doctor", correct?)

Soon UK docs will go completely naked, to prevent the MRSA/HAI risk associated with pants . . .

Haha yes, due to "traditional" reasons (aka the first surgeons were barbers, and not medically trained), surgeons become "Mr." rather than Dr. However, the title of Dr. is an Honorary one, as the medical degree in the UK is a bachelors, not a Doctorate.

Coming from the US, I was actually a bit disappointed when I heard I wouldn't be wearing a white coat on my clinical rounds...but I guess it's a big thing for them, so oh well

 

[VeerTheTIGuy]

Good lord, this is an old thread. I love it.

yeah, sorry for dredging up an old topic; just found it while browsing one day and felt like posting

 

[Bertelman]

yeah, sorry for dredging up an old topic; just found it while browsing one day and felt like posting

Ummm...I don't know if he was referring to you. McGyver dredged it up last week, and that was because I linked it to a very similar discussion in the Allopathic forums. This one is definitely more entertaining, though.

 

[f_w]

Coming from the US, I was actually a bit disappointed when I heard I wouldn't be wearing a white coat on my clinical rounds...but I guess it's a big thing for them, so oh well

The magical belief into the power of the white coat seems to be less prevalent outside of the US.

 

[Tired]

The magical belief into the power of the white coat seems to be less prevalent outside of the US.

That's because communists don't believe in God.