Who should wear the white coat?

[nev]

As a med student, I think the obvious solution is that since everyone now wears white coats, the physician needs something new to differentiate himself. Therefore, I propose that physicians should now wear regal robes and a crown.

This should help secure their place as lords and masters of all they see. Their status as being above the unwashed masses will forever be unassailable. In addition, attendings should get a scepter of ruling to differentiate themselves from the lower residents. The chief should also get that orb thingie, it can even double as a pager. "Excuse me, my orb is going off. Looks like the ED is paging me again."

This would also help MDs deal with title-inflation. Everyone is calling themselves doctors these days, even chiropracters, right? Well, let them. The physician shall now be referred only as Lord. Another perk is getting to use the royal "we" and as everyone knows, the royal "we" rocks.

"Greetings my subject. We are Lord Smith, and we will deign to lay hands upon you to cure your ailments. Now then, have you passed gas today?"

Of course, the upshot for me is that if physicians are the kings, then I am surely the prince. Therefore, I should also be issued regal robes, but just have a crown with slightly fewer jewels.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[lvspro]

As a med student, I think the obvious solution is that since everyone now wears white coats, the physician needs something new to differentiate himself. Therefore, I propose that physicians should now wear regal robes and a crown.

This should help secure their place as lords and masters of all they see. Their status as being above the unwashed masses will forever be unassailable. In addition, attendings should get a scepter of ruling to differentiate themselves from the lower residents. The chief should also get that orb thingie, it can even double as a pager. "Excuse me, my orb is going off. Looks like the ED is paging me again."

This would also help MDs deal with title-inflation. Everyone is calling themselves doctors these days, even chiropracters, right? Well, let them. The physician shall now be referred only as Lord. Another perk is getting to use the royal "we" and as everyone knows, the royal "we" rocks.

"Greetings my subject. We are Lord Smith, and we will deign to lay hands upon you to cure your ailments. Now then, have you passed gas today?"

Of course, the upshot for me is that if physicians are the kings, then I am surely the prince. Therefore, I should also be issued regal robes, but just have a crown with slightly fewer jewels.

Classic

 

[Shodddy18]

As a med student, I think the obvious solution is that since everyone now wears white coats, the physician needs something new to differentiate himself. Therefore, I propose that physicians should now wear regal robes and a crown.

This should help secure their place as lords and masters of all they see. Their status as being above the unwashed masses will forever be unassailable. In addition, attendings should get a scepter of ruling to differentiate themselves from the lower residents. The chief should also get that orb thingie, it can even double as a pager. "Excuse me, my orb is going off. Looks like the ED is paging me again."

This would also help MDs deal with title-inflation. Everyone is calling themselves doctors these days, even chiropracters, right? Well, let them. The physician shall now be referred only as Lord. Another perk is getting to use the royal "we" and as everyone knows, the royal "we" rocks.

"Greetings my subject. We are Lord Smith, and we will deign to lay hands upon you to cure your ailments. Now then, have you passed gas today?"

Of course, the upshot for me is that if physicians are the kings, then I am surely the prince. Therefore, I should also be issued regal robes, but just have a crown with slightly fewer jewels.

You rock dude

 

[SuitsYou]

However, I use one of those clips that's attached to a retractable string for my ID, and it seems like whenever I look down at my badge it's always flipped around the wrong way. No matter which way I attach the badge, it flips around backwards

Ill buy that, hell my tie flips sideways almost daily making me look like I cant dress myself (I really can though), however more often than not it is the slide in-and-out ID holders whereby for it to 'accidently flip around' it would have to fall out of the holder, bounce off the ground and do a 180degree spin and slide back into the holder. And no, I will not accept that the ID is used as a swipe key and they just dont watch how they put it back in after using it. You just dont see me hang my stethoscope around the front of my neck after using it do you

 

[Ice-1]

I know professors who teach subjects to medical students (the ones that are going to become doctors) and PA's (the ones that are going to become their assistants). According to the ones that actually do this for a living, the PA classes in the same subject areas cover about 50% of the material taught to the medical students, and there is no residency for them. If you would rather have the PA than the intern that is your choice, but don't make the mistake of thinking that the training is in any way comparable.

 

[Hurricane]

ForbiddenComma, if there is an award for funniest post of the week, you should get it!

 

[lvspro]

ForbiddenComma, if there is an award for funniest post of the week, you should get it!

I would second this nomination, but the anesthesiology thread has a pretty funny cut n pasting of someones blog. If you feel like reading it, it's over here

http://beta.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=238453

This guy and comma would be neck and neck for winning that honor.

 

[toofache32]

I hate the (mostly women, and I am a woman, so don't jump all over me) who attach so many stickers and pens and keys to the lanyard with their ID badge so that you can't read it. Really, I don't care what coat people are wearing, as long as their name and title are easily seen, and they clearly identify their position to patients and staff. As for me, I can't wait to be an uncoated psych resident

These are often the same females who wear the collar on their blouse outside the white coat collar as if they were trying to accessorize with the coat.

 

[Shodddy18]

These are often the same females who wear the collar on their blouse outside the white coat collar as if they were trying to accessorize with the coat.

So thats not fashionable??? I should stop doing that... it gets in the way of my ties anyways

 

[StudKnight]

A couple of observations:

The band around the waist makes my ass look way too big.

3rd year med students with the short white coats look like a bunch of women. No offense to women. But it's true. When you see a bunch of 3rd year med students together, the first thing that goes through your mind is "they look like a bunch of pu**ies". It's the short coat.

 

[Samoa]

These are often the same females who wear the collar on their blouse outside the white coat collar as if they were trying to accessorize with the coat.

I do that. But I hate stickers and pins and all that stuff. I rarely even wear the ubiquitous Humanism in Medicine pin that we all got with our white coats. ...As if a mere pin is what makes me a humanistic doctor (or conversely, as if the lack of it means I'm an arrogant jerk).

by the way, great post forbiddencomma! I am all for crowns and robes.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

A psychologist IS a doctor. They are either phd's or psyd's or Ed's. They are not paraprofessionals.

Also, some of the para's and others wore their name tag backwards because they simply didn't like their picture. No hidden agenda to that. I am glad that we med students don't have our pictures on our tags.

At our institution we have pictures on our badges and in big bold letters "MEDICAL STUDENT"

anyway...psychologists are not MDs....

 

[toofache32]

anyway...psychologists are not MDs....

And I don't know any who say they are. And MDs are not psychologists. All you people are unbelievable. Notice how it's only these still-in-med-school-forums that this is such a big deal? When you get into the real world, you'll realize that nobody cares about these petty issues except the MDs who base their entire self-esteem on 2 letters after their name....the same 2 that are given to thousands of graduates every year. I know mommy is proud but gimme a break.

I've never understood why medical students love to build pedestals to put themselves on. It seems other professions don't do this. Can anyone enlighten me?

 

[21JumpStreet]

At our institution we have pictures on our badges and in big bold letters "MEDICAL STUDENT"

anyway...psychologists are not MDs....

What is wrong with you. I didn't say that psychologists were MD's. But, THEY ARE DOCTORS. GET USED TO IT: Like it or not Phd's, Psyd's, DVM's, DPM's, DDS's etc, are doctors. Because psychologists are not MD's, it does not mean that they are not professionals. Face it they are doctors because they have worked really hard at earning a doctorate. Are you really a med student. You sound like a selfish kid.

On my psych rotation, I have heard attendings refer to psychologists as doctors. If you are actually a med student, God help you if you ever experience this. Make sure to correct your attendings, so you can fail your rotation.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

I know professors who teach subjects to medical students (the ones that are going to become doctors) and PA's (the ones that are going to become their assistants). According to the ones that actually do this for a living, the PA classes in the same subject areas cover about 50% of the material taught to the medical students, and there is no residency for them. If you would rather have the PA than the intern that is your choice, but don't make the mistake of thinking that the training is in any way comparable.

Thank you! At least someone agrees with me

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

What is wrong with you. I didn't say that psychologists were MD's. But, THEY ARE DOCTORS. GET USED TO IT: Like it or not Phd's, Psyd's, DVM's, DPM's, DDS's etc, are doctors. Because psychologists are not MD's, it does not mean that they are not professionals. Face it they are doctors because they have worked really hard at earning a doctorate. Are you really a med student. You sound like a selfish kid.

On my psych rotation, I have heard attendings refer to psychologists as doctors. If you are actually a med student, God help you if you ever experience this. Make sure to correct your attendings, so you can fail your rotation.

Psychiatrists are Medical Docs and psychologists are just Docs (assuming they did there PHd)

 

[toofache32]

Psychiatrists are Medical Docs and psychologists are just Docs (assuming they did there PHd)

I guess this sums up your self-esteem problems perfectly that I referred to earlier. Ever consider the idea that a Psychologist went the PhD route instead of medical on purpose? Not everyone wants to go to med school, and med school is not any standard against which others are compared. Let's face it, the MD is a very generic degree which qualifies you only to do H&Ps and go find xrays. That's why a residency is required for med school grads. The actual medical degree is only a milestone on a longer road.

This is hilarious. I'm really enjoying this thread.

 

[p53]

I guess this sums up your self-esteem problems perfectly that I referred to earlier. Ever consider the idea that a Psychologist went the PhD route instead of medical on purpose? Not everyone wants to go to med school, and med school is not any standard against which others are compared. Let's face it, the MD is a very generic degree which qualifies you only to do H&Ps and go find xrays. That's why a residency is required for med school grads. The actual medical degree is only a milestone on a longer road.

This is hilarious. I'm really enjoying this thread.

I COMPLETELY agree. I am sick and tired of these SPOILED, ENTITLED medical students complaining about white coats. IT IS PATHETIC. It is an attempt to protect the fragile ego i.e. "I'm a medical student and only medical students and physicians should wear white coats." The motive of this frustration stems from medical students feeling "inferior" thus must compensate to feel "superior".

The interns and residents make the medical students feel inferior because they scut them. Yet, medical students EXPECT to be taught medicine by residents and interns. This does not happen because interns and residents number one goal is to get out of the hospital ASAP.

Also, MEDICAL STUDENTS ARE NOT NEEDED FOR PATIENT CARE. Thus a medical student is worked to death, but is essentially not needed.

This truth causes the medical students to feel worthless. Therefore, these medical students look down upon other people in the hospital to feel better about themselves. The guiding light is at least "I'm going to be a doctor with a white coat". These students secretly consider themselves "special" to be in medical school, and wear a white coat because NOT everyone gets accepted to medical school. Also there is the belief that other professionals that have acquired advanced degrees "have not had to work hard like me in medical school." So this ARROGANCE persists.

BOTTOMLINE: A medical student SHOULD NOT GIVE A DA*N if other people are wearing a white coat in a hospital. So what if a PA is called doctor by a patient? Even if the patient believes it, SO WHAT? The patient still knows the PRIMARY PHYSICAN treating him in the hospital so it DOES NOT MATTER. The primary caretaker for a patient always introduces himself/herself as, "I'm Dr. .....".

A medical student should be focused on learning medicine, securing great evaluations, or acing the shelf exam. PERIOD. This whole talk thread just reeks of spoiled, entitled medical students venting frustration because of an inferiority complex.

 

[oompaloompa]

As with all academic centers, about 20 people see a single patient in a day where I am, and most ask similar questions, so I doubt any of our patients really know who we are or what our role is. To complicate things, the med students all have the descriptor "STUDENT" on their ID badges. Unfortunately, so do all the nursing students, PA students, PT students, LVN students, you get the idea. So it leads to all kinds of interesting responses. My favorite has to be:

"Student, heh? So what are you doing, some kind of high school elective? Good for you, it will look good when you apply for college."

By the way, I'm 25. Anyway, the point is, laugh it off guys, too many people in the hospital take themselves way too seriously, even the lunch lady has an ID that says "Nutrition Corrdinator" . Also, even though I hope to be there someday, right now I'm not in any big hurry to be known as the "one in charge." In my experience, the one in charge is much more likely to be blamed when things go wrong than to get credit when things are done right.

 

[21JumpStreet]

Psychiatrists are Medical Docs and psychologists are just Docs (assuming they did there PHd)

Your statement proves that you know absolutely nothing of what you are talking about. In order to be referred to as a psychologist, one must have a PHD. After the PHD an internship must be completed in order to take the licensing exam. If they want to specialize in a dicipline like forensic neuropsychology, they must do a fellowship.

I have a phd and went on to medical school. I can tell that you know nothing of what a phd process entails. You don't have the luxury of just being a student. You have coursework, comp exams, if you do well in them, a juried dissertation to complete, research to conduct, teach classes, and if your in a clinical psych program you must complete a practicum where you are actually doing therapy with patients, you need to prep for teaching classes and hold regular office hours for students. This is all done before you can even get your PHD.

Again, go and correct your attendings (if you are actually in med school) and I'd love to see what happens. Now go back and study for your organic chemistry and other pre-med courses.

 

[DOCTORSAIB]

I COMPLETELY agree. I am sick and tired of these SPOILED, ENTITLED medical students complaining about white coats. IT IS PATHETIC. It is an attempt to protect the fragile ego i.e. "I'm a medical student and only medical students and physicians should wear white coats." The motive of this frustration stems from medical students feeling "inferior" thus must compensate to feel "superior".

The interns and residents make the medical students feel inferior because they scut them. Yet, medical students EXPECT to be taught medicine by residents and interns. This does not happen because interns and residents number one goal is to get out of the hospital ASAP.

Also, MEDICAL STUDENTS ARE NOT NEEDED FOR PATIENT CARE. Thus a medical student is worked to death, but is essentially not needed.

This truth causes the medical students to feel worthless. Therefore, these medical students look down upon other people in the hospital to feel better about themselves. The guiding light is at least "I'm going to be a doctor with a white coat". These students secretly consider themselves "special" to be in medical school, and wear a white coat because NOT everyone gets accepted to medical school. Also there is the belief that other professionals that have acquired advanced degrees "have not had to work hard like me in medical school." So this ARROGANCE persists.

BOTTOMLINE: A medical student SHOULD NOT GIVE A DA*N if other people are wearing a white coat in a hospital. So what if a PA is called doctor by a patient? Even if the patient believes it, SO WHAT? The patient still knows the PRIMARY PHYSICAN treating him in the hospital so it DOES NOT MATTER. The primary caretaker for a patient always introduces himself/herself as, "I'm Dr. .....".

A medical student should be focused on learning medicine, securing great evaluations, or acing the shelf exam. PERIOD. This whole talk thread just reeks of spoiled, entitled medical students venting frustration because of an inferiority complex.

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

I COMPLETELY agree. I am sick and tired of these SPOILED, ENTITLED medical students complaining about white coats. IT IS PATHETIC. It is an attempt to protect the fragile ego i.e. "I'm a medical student and only medical students and physicians should wear white coats." The motive of this frustration stems from medical students feeling "inferior" thus must compensate to feel "superior".

The interns and residents make the medical students feel inferior because they scut them. Yet, medical students EXPECT to be taught medicine by residents and interns. This does not happen because interns and residents number one goal is to get out of the hospital ASAP.

Also, MEDICAL STUDENTS ARE NOT NEEDED FOR PATIENT CARE. Thus a medical student is worked to death, but is essentially not needed.

This truth causes the medical students to feel worthless. Therefore, these medical students look down upon other people in the hospital to feel better about themselves. The guiding light is at least "I'm going to be a doctor with a white coat". These students secretly consider themselves "special" to be in medical school, and wear a white coat because NOT everyone gets accepted to medical school. Also there is the belief that other professionals that have acquired advanced degrees "have not had to work hard like me in medical school." So this ARROGANCE persists.

BOTTOMLINE: A medical student SHOULD NOT GIVE A DA*N if other people are wearing a white coat in a hospital. So what if a PA is called doctor by a patient? Even if the patient believes it, SO WHAT? The patient still knows the PRIMARY PHYSICAN treating him in the hospital so it DOES NOT MATTER. The primary caretaker for a patient always introduces himself/herself as, "I'm Dr. .....".

A medical student should be focused on learning medicine, securing great evaluations, or acing the shelf exam. PERIOD. This whole talk thread just reeks of spoiled, entitled medical students venting frustration because of an inferiority complex.

I agree with your position, but it doesn't apply to the context of this thread. This thread was about the patient making incorrect assumptions about people's duties because they all dress the same. Your post seems to be making the assumption that any talk of white coats is essentially motivated by insecurity, but the original poster was interested in it as a practical issue.

Would you have the same opinion were this case about a doctor vs. a fireman? If a fireman dressed in a white coat, would the doctor be justified in complaining that patients are always asking him how to change their smoke detector? Absurd example, I know, but the uniform conveys the role. If everyone has the same uniform, it defeats the purpose.

Not every question requires an outspoken character judgement. But then again, this is the Internet, so I guess all bets are off.

HamOn

 

[sdnetrocks]

I think the way the white coat should be used is to designate the wearer as a physician.

When I see a stranger in the hospital wearing a long white coat, wouldn't it be nice if I could just immediately assume that they're a physician? Instead, due to all the other people that have been mentioned that also deem upon themselves to wear white coats, I have to start thinking -- ok, are they actually a doctor? Here's where bad stereotypes start coming on. If the person is female and doesn't look "sharp", whatever the hell that means, I'm going to start wondering if this is a nurse. If it's a guy, I'm going to start thinking PA? RT? etc.

(At least it's somewhat easy at my VA, as a long white coat + VA logo = allied health, while docs have the university logo).

The point is that as medical students and residents who constantly rotate onto new services and are always working with new allied health staff, it would just be so convenient to be able to identify people's roles by their clothes. Otherwise, you have to start staring intently at the tiny type on their name badges, which ARE turned the wrong way a lot of the time.

And this isn't just a doctor = white coat issue. I have a very difficult time telling RN's apart from LPNs, techs, phlebotomists, etc. It would be nice if there was some way to tell them apart as well -- who hasn't made the mistake of assuming that a phlebotomist is actually that patient's nurse?

The ER at my university actually has their $hit together in this regard -- everyone wears a different color scrubs based on their role, and their job title is printed in big block letters right on their scrub shirt. Plus, there is a color legend in every pt room.

P.S. One random, but related, thing that pisses me off -- scrub nurses that put on a surgical gown backwards and just wear it around for "warmth". WTF!

 

[NoSz]

Life can be even worse:

I know a big and well-known university hospital in Germany where the new chair (OBGYN) had the buttons changed on the coats.

gilded- chair
silver- attending
pearly white- senior resident
plasticky white- junior resident

If he could have I am sure he would have asked for wooden buttons for medical students and no buttons at all for midwives and nurses.

He also demanded new tiles for the OR, because he did not like the color of the old ones.

I am pretty sure, this did not clarify anything for patients, it was purely a sign of the pecking order and a sick ego.

 

[LooKing4Ward]

As a derm. patient personally I don't care who wears the white coat. If you do a good job and our personalities gel than I am more inclined to you treating me.

My derm. recently hired a PA to assist with other things, like injections. Yes the PA wore a white coat. He hasn't treated me yet. I'm open to giving him a chance. I have to say however he was a bit stand offish, but that might have been because he was in front of his boss the doctor at the time. One on one he might be more personable.

There was another doc/pt/pa/not sure of title that I saw at the same office cause the regular doc was on vacation. I didn't like them. Everytime I schedule an appointment I fight to see the regular derm I have been seeing. The office personel says my derm. prefers injections to be passed on to others so he can focus on new/surgery patients. I even call on another day to speak with another office personel who will reschedule my appointment.

Okay, I'll get off my rant.

 

[Shodddy18]

Life can be even worse:

I know a big and well-known university hospital in Germany where the new chair (OBGYN) had the buttons changed on the coats.

gilded- chair
silver- attending
pearly white- senior resident
plasticky white- junior resident

If he could have I am sure he would have asked for wooden buttons for medical students and no buttons at all for midwives and nurses.

He also demanded new tiles for the OR, because he did not like the color of the old ones.

I am pretty sure, this did not clarify anything for patients, it was purely a sign of the pecking order and a sick ego.

That actually sounds like a cool idea!!! My only sugestion is that we medical students get velcro strips instead of buttons. Buttons are too complicated and overrated.

 

[lvspro]

I agree with your position, but it doesn't apply to the context of this thread. This thread was about the patient making incorrect assumptions about people's duties because they all dress the same. Your post seems to be making the assumption that any talk of white coats is essentially motivated by insecurity, but the original poster was interested in it as a practical issue.

Would you have the same opinion were this case about a doctor vs. a fireman? If a fireman dressed in a white coat, would the doctor be justified in complaining that patients are always asking him how to change their smoke detector? Absurd example, I know, but the uniform conveys the role. If everyone has the same uniform, it defeats the purpose.

Not every question requires an outspoken character judgement. But then again, this is the Internet, so I guess all bets are off.

HamOn

Thanks for bringing us back to the original idea of this thread. Also, the next poster does the same, so again, much appreciated. Anyhow, I didn't see p53's original post that you responded to, but it doesn't surprise me that he has yet to understand the jist of this thread. I put him on my ignore list as I was getting the impression that he was just attacking the posters, and not really addressing the topic.
Anyhow, this thread is evolving nicely, as I'm seeing the original point discussed, and tangential topics explored.
Anyone else have an opinion? I'd be happy to hear about it.

 

[Pox in a box]

I put him on my ignore list as I was getting the impression that he was just attacking the posters, and not really addressing the topic.

How do you put people on the annoy list?

 

[ForbiddenComma]

In all seriousness, I understand the appeal of having an easily recognized "uniform" that matches your career... as someone mentioned, cops take their blues very seriously because it is a symbol of what they do and the hard work they did to earn it. Are physicians and med students "insecure" for feeling the same way about their white coat, or the title of Doctor? Maybe, but it's fairly understandable and not deserving of the histrionic condemnations of one poster here.

Army officers would probably feel just as insecure if enlisted types started dressing in officer uniforms and start receiving the same respect "for free." It's silly in one way... but obvious and understandable in another.

But that ship has sailed. We need to get over ourselves and realize that simply being a physician or wearing the physician's "uniform" is no longer enough to earn respect. We have to earn it by being good at what we do.

 

[21JumpStreet]

In all seriousness, I understand the appeal of having an easily recognized "uniform" that matches your career... as someone mentioned, cops take their blues very seriously because it is a symbol of what they do and the hard work they did to earn it. Are physicians and med students "insecure" for feeling the same way about their white coat, or the title of Doctor? Maybe, but it's fairly understandable and not deserving of the histrionic condemnations of one poster here.

Army officers would probably feel just as insecure if enlisted types started dressing in officer uniforms and start receiving the same respect "for free." It's silly in one way... but obvious and understandable in another.

But that ship has sailed. We need to get over ourselves and realize that simply being a physician or wearing the physician's "uniform" is no longer enough to earn respect. We have to earn it by being good at what we do.

I refer back to my post. I can understand the white coat as being distinguishable for physicians and we med students. However, I draw the line when docs/med students get offended with other professions being called doctor. I worked hard for a PHD before going to med school. Again, the program entailed taking courses, perfoming well on comp exams, doing well in them in order to write a juried dissertation, conducting research, teaching and having office hours for students. This was just to get the PHD. You better believe that I among others with PHD's, DDS's, DVM's, DPM's, etc deserve the title doctor. I have even worked harder in my PHD program than in medical school.

I remember during my first year of medical school, my biochem instructor was a PHD. He is a well known biochemist. We all referred to him as doctor. I guess the medical students should stop doing so, after all he is not an MD.

 

[lvspro]

I refer back to my post. I can understand the white coat as being distinguishable for physicians and we med students. However, I draw the line when docs/med students get offended with other professions being called doctor. I worked hard for a PHD before going to med school. Again, the program entailed more than just being a student taking courses, comp exams, doing well in them in order to write a juried dissertation, conducting research, teaching and having office hours for students. This was just to get the PHD. You better believe that I among others with PHD's, DDS's, DVM's, DPM's, etc deserve the title doctor. Get over yourselves. I have even worked harder in my PHD program than in medical school.

I remember during my first year of medical school, my biochem instructor was a PHD. He is a well known biochemist. We all referred to him as doctor. I guess the medical students should stop doing so, after all he is not an MD.

I have all the respect in the world for PhD's, as well as any other doctor, and always address them as doctor unless specifically told otherwise. That being said, I think when the average patient goes to a hospital for care, they expect an MD, or maybe a DO if they are enlightened, to be their "doctor." It seems that when professionals deserving of the "doctor" title converge, their is a mutual understanding between them that yes, in fact, we are all doctors... of different sorts. I'm not too sure if when a patient is at the hospital asking for a doctor, that they're requesting a PharmD, or a PhD. Also, I think that when a patient uses the term doctor, it's a contextual thing. For example, a diabetic starts a healthcare filled day by going to the dentist, whom he addresses as doctor, then stops at the podiatrists, also addressed as doctor, and then goes to his internists, doctor again, and then finishes his day by stopping at the state university hospital for an experimental study organized by a PhD... you get the point. So I guess all of this leads in to my original question, when a Pt sees a white coat, is it reflexual for them to assume that this is the MD/DO? Even though they may call everyone else doctor, as above pt did, are these really the "doctors" they think they're seeing while in the hospital?
All opinions are welcome.

 

[lvspro]

How do you put people on the annoy list?

Hey pox
1. go to "private messages" at the top r of the screen and hit the link.
2. Scroll down, until you see the buddy/ignore on the left of the screen, and click it.
3. you should be able to figure out the rest.

 

[deleted6669]

I work in several settings as a pa:
solo in small er
lg trauma ctr
inpt unit
free clinic
hmo urgent care

I wear different things at all of these facilities from coat/tie to scrubs to yes, a long white coat.
I have "pa" clearly visible on at least 3 places on my person( on coat, on ID, on pocket clip) and introduce myself as a pa.
9 out of 10 times I still get "thanks doc" at the end of the encounter.
if you are over a certain age(probably around 30) and look/act professionally people just call you doc regrdless of telling them the difference multiple times. it's like the medics in the army who get called "doc", it just comes with the territory when you take a leading role in pt care. when I am teaching fp residents(which I have done for >10 yrs as a primary rotation preceptor in em) they call me doctor "emedpa" even though they know very well that I am not.

 

[lvspro]

I work in several settings as a pa:
solo in small er
lg trauma ctr
inpt unit
free clinic
hmo urgent care

I wear different things at all of these facilities from coat/tie to scrubs to yes, a long white coat.
I have "pa" clearly visible on at least 3 places on my person( on coat, on ID, on pocket clip) and introduce myself as a pa.
9 out of 10 times I still get "thanks doc" at the end of the encounter.
if you are over a certain age(probably around 30) and look/act professionally people just call you doc regrdless of telling them the difference multiple times. it's like the medics in the army who get called "doc", it just comes with the territory when you take a leading role in pt care. when I am teaching fp residents(which I have done for >10 yrs as a primary rotation preceptor in em) they call me doctor "emedpa" even though they know very well that I am not.

Hi emedpa
I can see how a pt could knowingly call someone doctor, who clearly has indicated otherwise, as a form of respect/grattitude. I think I've addressed this once b4, when another PA indicated that "it wouldn't be all that inappropriate to call someone doc after they shove a big needle in your chest," and I also agreed that this was very reasonable. Also, from the sound of it, you seem like you do a pretty good job telling the pt who you are on the healthcare team. My questions for you are:
1. Is it concievable that some of your patients, despite your clear indication otherwise, could still assume/think that you're a doctor based on the fact that you are wearing a white coat? (Especially some of the older/previously healthy pt's who are not quite sure who the players in their healthcare.)
2. If so, do you think that by not wearing a white coat, and being dressed in scrubs, or a shirt and tie, that it would negate above confusion?
Your input here is critical to this discussion, as you are a PA that wears the white coat, and have witnessed, first hand, whether or not a patient may be confused with who the players in our healthcare delivery model are. Let us know what you think.

 

[toofache32]

...I have even worked harder in my PHD program than in medical school...

And likewise, I had to work much harder in dental school than I did in med school. But I don't go whining about it when nobody else cares.

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

And likewise, I had to work much harder in dental school than I did in med school. But I don't go whining about it when nobody else cares.

Good point. Your signature is hilarious BTW.

HamOn

 

[21JumpStreet]

And likewise, I had to work much harder in dental school than I did in med school. But I don't go whining about it when nobody else cares.

I am not whining. I am standing up for myself. Nothing is wrong with that. As far as not caring, what do you think this whole thread is about. Apparently, many people on this form do care and are whining. So get over yourself. Just because you don't care about how hard you worked in dental school to obtain the degree, don't shoot others down for caring about what they went through. You just look stupid. Unless maybe you really don't care because you didn't go to dental school at all.

 

[ForensicsBound]

how about if physicians have their names on the back of their coats...like athletes do. Like "Dr. Jojo"....or "PA Lancester"...

Or have a number too.

33 Dr. Bird

 

[nabeya]

I could really care less about who wears a white coat. I hate to wear mine. It's too hot, especially after walking around the hospital all day and being in small, not very well ventilated rooms.

how about if physicians have their names on the back of their coats...like athletes do. Like "Dr. Jojo"....or "PA Lancester"...

Or have a number too.

33 Dr. Bird

 

[hannahx]

Let's face it, the MD is a very generic degree which qualifies you only to do H&Ps and go find xrays. That's why a residency is required for med school grads. The actual medical degree is only a milestone on a longer road.

This is hilarious. I'm really enjoying this thread.

Okay, I am not actually a med student, so forgive me for (gasp) trespassing and for being very, very novice.

Isn't a MD as to undergrad as residency is to graduate prgm? (like my little analogy??) Am I understanding this correctly? I'm just trying to figure it all out.

And for the record, I don't care what anyone's title is, if their coat is white, long, short, or even not worn. If you've helped me in anyway, your assistance is greatly appreciated!

 

[ForensicsBound]

It's the length that matters. Whether it's white or any other color is secondary.

 

[deleted6669]

Hi emedpa
I can see how a pt could knowingly call someone doctor, who clearly has indicated otherwise, as a form of respect/grattitude. I think I've addressed this once b4, when another PA indicated that "it wouldn't be all that inappropriate to call someone doc after they shove a big needle in your chest," and I also agreed that this was very reasonable. Also, from the sound of it, you seem like you do a pretty good job telling the pt who you are on the healthcare team. My questions for you are:
1. Is it concievable that some of your patients, despite your clear indication otherwise, could still assume/think that you're a doctor based on the fact that you are wearing a white coat? (Especially some of the older/previously healthy pt's who are not quite sure who the players in their healthcare.)
2. If so, do you think that by not wearing a white coat, and being dressed in scrubs, or a shirt and tie, that it would negate above confusion?
Your input here is critical to this discussion, as you are a PA that wears the white coat, and have witnessed, first hand, whether or not a patient may be confused with who the players in our healthcare delivery model are. Let us know what you think.

I really don't think dress makes a difference, coat or otherwise. I think if I wore a clean t-shirt and a pair of jeans + I.D. and a stethoscope around my neck folks would still call me doc all day long. it's just too ingrained in the american psyche. the person who writes your prescription after listening to your lungs and asking a bunch of questions is "the doc", regardless of what they say.
at my facility everyone wears white coats. the cna's, the rn's, the rt's, the phlebotomist, everyone. they don't get confused for docs. it's what you do with the pt( H+P, order tests, interpret tests, write rx) NOT what you wear that defines your role. there are lots of docs who look (and are) younger than me and on occassion I will bring them into a room to double check a finding on a pt. I introduce them as dr smith, the er chief,etc. and by the end of the encounter the pt is telling me how nice my intern was because I look ( and am) older so despite a formal introduction and explanation of roles, the pts still assume the older guy is the more senior. go figure!

 

[RonaldColeman]

The motive of this frustration stems from medical students feeling "inferior" thus must compensate to feel "superior".

Kind of like your frustration about not beating BigFrank (and many others on this board) on Step 1 manifesting itself in your holier than thou posts?

 

[lvspro]

I really don't think dress makes a difference, coat or otherwise. I think if I wore a clean t-shirt and a pair of jeans + I.D. and a stethoscope around my neck folks would still call me doc all day long. it's just too ingrained in the american psyche. the person who writes your prescription after listening to your lungs and asking a bunch of questions is "the doc", regardless of what they say...
there are lots of docs who look (and are) younger than me and on occassion I will bring them into a room to double check a finding on a pt. I introduce them as dr smith, the er chief,etc. and by the end of the encounter the pt is telling me how nice my intern was because I look ( and am) older so despite a formal introduction and explanation of roles, the pts still assume the older guy is the more senior. go figure!

Well said, and point taken.

 

[toofache32]

It's the length that matters. Whether it's white or any other color is secondary.

Are we still talking about medicine here?

 

[blkkd]

If you spend over 200,000 for 8 years of education, don't end your schooling until after your 30(depending on age you started and specialty), and must stay educated and be bombarded with test after for the resst of your life; is it really narcissism to want people to know that your a physician. I am not belittling any other position there are PA's and nurses who could have been successful in medical school, but the fact is they didn't go through that. Lets be realistic, a patient can say "i know who the manager at wal mart is but I can't figure out who my doctor is", thats madness....

 

[saiyagirl]

i think white coats are good for the huge pockets. most providers in the hospital have crap to carry around....white coats are probably a good idea all around, for that reason only.

otherwise, i think they suck. people wash them like 1x/week, maybe less frequently, they get all nasty around the neck and the hands, have been dragged along the floor during noon conference, and are probably vectors of disease.

as for how to tell people apart, i think color coded scrubs are a fantastic idea esp on rotations where no one seems to wear their white coats (OBGYN, at least at my hospital), and I had NO clue the first week who were the MDs, the NPs, the RN's, the PA's, the Nursing Students, Pharm, etc etc etc.

 

[21JumpStreet]

To add to the confusion, you have hospitals workers whom do not see patients at all, walking around in a hospital, with a lab coat on. For instance, I worked in a hospital doing research and everyone including bachelor level interns, masters level scientists were required to wear white lab coats in the lab for protection. Although it was a requirement to wear them, everyone in the lab walked around the hospital with them on. Well at least they weren't seeing patients. But, it looked strange.

 

[lvspro]

The tone of the replies seem to follow 2 basic ideas:

1. Yes, I have witnessed the confusion, and feel that making/allowing only MD/DO's to wear it would remove this confusion.

2. It doesn't matter who wears the white coat, as long as the pt's get top notch care.

Unfortunately, the two are not mutually exclusive. Unless I read someone blatantly saying that the confusion would persist regardless of coat removal, I am going to assume that there is a majority agreeing with my original idea. A study may be in order here.

 

[RonaldColeman]

And likewise, I had to work much harder in dental school than I did in med school. But I don't go whining about it when nobody else cares.

You are joking, right? I mean, I'm not disparaging dental school, but I have a really hard time believing that dental school is "much harder" than medical school.