What are you going to buy with your first real Doc paycheck?

[flewsmcgee]

How is it responsible to not maximize your quality of life while you're younger? It blows my mind that people want to have more money for their older years when a variety of cancers or heart disease could pop up and end everything.
Yes you should spend wisely but you shouldn't hold yourself back... spend money while you're healthy and and not old. Ideally having money during the golden 18-25 year age bracket is best but that's exceptionally rare.

I'd personally want a decent ferrari as early as possible as an attending.. or another "average" exotic (and yes it would be financed).

It's not about delayed gratification so much as it is shifting priorities. I'm a non trad so I've already had the nice apartment/sports car thing and I realized it just gave me very little satisfaction. I got rid of them both quickly. Financial stability and living simply made me much happier overall.

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[Bryan O’Blivion]

Hi Slopes,

Thanks for writing back. I'll PM you with the tickets and digits. You are correct, My experience is a little different than yours. I have never flown a glass cockpit, but have used GPS coupled MFD and TCAS. However, I am not surprised to hear that there are representations of analog instruments in your glass cockpit.

Seatbelts: Yes, also important for turbulence. Sure. I think it is a different concept than the parachute.

O2 Mask: Doesn't cause me excessive discomfort. Beats the alternative. Never flown a pressurized aircraft. Must be nice.

You assume a lot. I haven't seen a 172 in years. But I would enjoy flying one, also a skycatcher (had to google that). They are fun, easy to fly, and cheap to own. I do hold an IFR rating. Not current. If I am not current, and not comfortable, I don't fly IFR. And I am not just talking about the FAA minimums, of intercepting courses and approaches. IFR skills are pretty perishable. I'm not taking about busting a little soup, filing IFR between Podunk and Buttsville, I am talking about entering a busy air traffic control area and flying an unfamiliar approach. Things can heat up pretty fast. You should be ready for it. You owe it to yourself, your passengers, and really the whole air traffic control system that has to deal with you.

When was the last time you flew a Mooney? You make them sound like a death trap. Sure, the wing doesn't mush, nose drop, and self recover like a Cessna, but if you keep your eye on airspeed indicator, you are unlikely to stall in the first place, except of course, as your wheels touch, when you want to. The stall recovery is not significantly different. Hey to each their own. I can fit in a Mooney M20J. Judging from your past few posts, I think I can put up with a little more discomfort than you are used to.

I've never landed a plane gear up. 90% of my flying has been in retractable gear craft. Situational awareness, my man.

I've never lost control mid air. Yes, that is outside my experience. I consider that to my credit.

Look, I'm not some Luddite that insists that a paper sectional chart, an E6B, and a whiskey compass are better than modern equipment. The very idea that one can have a pictorial representation of one's position on an approach plate is revolutionary (there's an app for it). Moving map navigational equipment is very helpful. But that isn't my point. My point is that that people assume that having these systems is a substitute for experience and stick and rudder skills.

Yes, I am very concerned with runway length. In a lot of the more interesting places you can go that's pretty important. Most of the places I have flown into have not had an FBO. If you have problem, you have to take care of it yourself.

Look man, you seem like a person whose parents bought them a lot of flight instruction in some nice equipment. There is a lot of flying done outside of the FBO to FBO environment. I appreciate your points, and I would enjoy learning to flying a glass cockpit sometime.

Regarding the service ceiling: One can fly level at ceiling, build airspeed, use it to climb, wash rinse repeat. No, you should not use this technique in proximity to terrain. I am surprised that this is how you interpreted this statement, although since we were talking about mountain flying, I see how you could have thought that.

EDIT: In reconsidering this, I think that you are right about a couple of things. Firstly, my statements about IFR are driven by reactionary thinking based on my own discomfort in encountering difficult weather conditions and increased workload while being technically "current" according to the CFR I fell under. You are right that skills will not improve avoiding challenging them. Also, having a solid dependable platform that you are familiar with can only be helpful. I think it is a difficult balance, however, and that currency requirements can technically met without skills being truly adequately maintained.

I still like the 182 and 235. For what I like to do, I maintain that they provide a lot of utility at a reasonable cost. If I had to make long commutes, I would still maintain that a Mooney is a cost effective way to cover distance. And I still despise the SR22. You could buy all 3 aircraft I just talked about for same price.

 

[Mad Jack]

How is it responsible to not maximize your quality of life while you're younger? It blows my mind that people want to have more money for their older years when a variety of cancers or heart disease could pop up and end everything.
Yes you should spend wisely but you shouldn't hold yourself back... spend money while you're healthy and and not old. Ideally having money during the golden 18-25 year age bracket is best but that's exceptionally rare.

I'd personally want a decent ferrari as early as possible as an attending.. or another "average" exotic (and yes it would be financed).

What difference does a Ferrari make in your 20s vs you're 30s?

 

[evooo8]

Just so you know, you can get a BMW leased or financed and not have to pay for it in full.... The house is likely mortgaged. He could have only put 250,000 down and gotten a great mortgage rate on that house by only saving 50k/year for each of those 5 years so he doesn't need to be making way above average for his specialty. It's not hard to save 50k/year as a single man on a 250-300k salary.

Yeah I know the house is mortgaged and he tells me he bought the house for a really good deal. His salary is 380k

 

[evooo8]

Actually I AM from California, born and raised. This is how I know how much of a trap the big house/nice car thing is!! Admittedly I don't plan on moving back to CA after med school. The price tag just isn't even close to worth it.

Where do you plan on moving if you don't mind me asking? I know California is a trap with very expensive cost of living. But I can't imagine living anywhere else, since 1. So Cal is great and 2. All my family and friends are here, I don't have family in any other state.

 

[evooo8]

And he's probably buried in debt to pay for it all. If you want to.pay off your student loans just to sell your future right back to the banks so you can show off, that's fine. It's much better to shirk societal expectations and be free than to be a debt slave until you die.

I'm from California and I don't give a rat's ass if the expectation is for me to buy a flashy car and an expensive house. I drive the same car I bought in residency and my husband drives the same car we got in med school. I just offered to look into getting a new car (something in the 25-30k range that he commented about the other day because it is all wheel drive and gets good reviews) and he said he didn't really think he needed it since his car is running fine. We are in the same place we bought in med school (although we redid the kitchen and are redoing the landscaping to get rid of the lawn). I'm guessing my net worth is a lot higher than that guy you describe (because everything is probably financed) and I will be hanging out on the beach in semi retirement long before he can afford to cut back on his hours. You have to live for yourself, not to meet other people's expectations.

Too each his/her own. I'm very close to him and I know he is not buried in debt. He makes 380k a year salary not including multiple side investments including owning a gas station across the street form AT&T stadium where the Dallas Cowboys play, he is originally from Texas and business and investing was his thing prior to going to medical school. His net worth might not be much right now but he is still young, so I'm sure he will be more than fine.

I also know a few physicians who are fine driving Toyotas and live in small homes, because luxurious things don't appeal to them.

I personally have always liked cars and nice things. So a nice car will definitely be at the top of my list.

 

[Hustler101]

What difference does a Ferrari make in your 20s vs you're 30s?

I'm sure the nightlife scene and parties look nicer if you have the money during a time when it's socially acceptable to be at all sorts of parties etc.
Though my comparison was about younger vs. older.

 

[Hustler101]

It's not about delayed gratification so much as it is shifting priorities. I'm a non trad so I've already had the nice apartment/sports car thing and I realized it just gave me very little satisfaction. I got rid of them both quickly. Financial stability and living simply made me much happier overall.

That's the thing though. It's about doing what makes you happy. One guy is happy with a random car or average house. Another wants an exotic due to his interest for it or a small mansion.

I just can't stand people who hate on those who tend to overspend in their 20s. As I've seen myself, life can easily end any day after 50... not wise to save the fun for then.

 

[Jeffrety]

I am getting a bright orange Mustang.

 

[flewsmcgee]

Where do you plan on moving if you don't mind me asking? I know California is a trap with very expensive cost of living. But I can't imagine living anywhere else, since 1. So Cal is great and 2. All my family and friends are here, I don't have family in any other state.

Not 100% sure yet but I'm open to a lot of possibilities. I will concede that if you live within 2 miles of the Southern California coast in Orange Country or San Diego, then you are living in one of the nicest places in the world. Anywhere more inland or anywhere in NorCal/Bay Area (where I have lived my entire life) and you are paying a ridiculous premium for the California brand name.

I will probably move to the Midwest to be honest. My grandma just sold her house across the street from a lake in a Chicago suburb for $200k. That's a real estate market I would like to be a part of. When I'm working, I barely notice if I'm in a nice vs average location, and when I'm on vacation I can just fly myself to the nicer parts of the world with all the saved money in my bank account!

The bottom line is that California is not the be all end all that it seems to be when you grow up here, and the financial stress you can avoid by not living here makes it well worth it to move in my opinion.

 

[Mad Jack]

Not 100% sure yet but I'm open to a lot of possibilities. I will concede that if you live within 2 miles of the Southern California coast in Orange Country or San Diego, then you are living in one of the nicest places in the world. Anywhere more inland or anywhere in NorCal/Bay Area (where I have lived my entire life) and you are paying a ridiculous premium for the California brand name.

I will probably move to the Midwest to be honest. My grandma just sold her house across the street from a lake in a Chicago suburb for $200k. That's a real estate market I would like to be a part of. When I'm working, I barely notice if I'm in a nice vs average location, and when I'm on vacation I can just fly myself to the nicer parts of the world with all the saved money in my bank account!

The bottom line is that California is not the be all end all that it seems to be when you grow up here, and the financial stress you can avoid by not living here makes it well worth it to move in my opinion.

Never quite got what people saw in California myself. Northern California is nice I guess, but Southern California has cities that pale in comparison to NYC if you're looking for big city living, Austin if you're looking for an artistic, vibrant city, or just about anywhere in Hawaii if you want sun and ocean. California always felt so shallow to me, a veneer of exceptionalism plastered on an objectively unexceptional place.

 

[flewsmcgee]

Never quite got what people saw in California myself. Northern California is nice I guess, but Southern California has cities that pale in comparison to NYC if you're looking for big city living, Austin if you're looking for an artistic, vibrant city, or just about anywhere in Hawaii if you want sun and ocean. California always felt so shallow to me, a veneer of exceptionalism plastered on an objectively unexceptional place.

To expand on my concession. Living really close to the beach in SoCal is pretty magical. Its 75 degrees with blue skies in July and 75 degrees with blue skies in December, and the water is always warm enough to jump in after a run on the beach. But yeah, if you are in Irvine or something the vibe there is pretty shallow and depressing. Not to mention the weather gets worse at an exponential rate as you move more than a mile off the coast inland.

 

[evooo8]

Not 100% sure yet but I'm open to a lot of possibilities. I will concede that if you live within 2 miles of the Southern California coast in Orange Country or San Diego, then you are living in one of the nicest places in the world. Anywhere more inland or anywhere in NorCal/Bay Area (where I have lived my entire life) and you are paying a ridiculous premium for the California brand name.

I will probably move to the Midwest to be honest. My grandma just sold her house across the street from a lake in a Chicago suburb for $200k. That's a real estate market I would like to be a part of. When I'm working, I barely notice if I'm in a nice vs average location, and when I'm on vacation I can just fly myself to the nicer parts of the world with all the saved money in my bank account!

The bottom line is that California is not the be all end all that it seems to be when you grow up here, and the financial stress you can avoid by not living here makes it well worth it to move in my opinion.

Yeah I'm pretty far from the beach. About 20 miles east of LA. Beach is still only a 30-40 min drive for me though. I used to thing California beaches were pretty nice. But I just got back from Hawaii a few weeks ago. So Huntington Beach was a tad bit disappointing haha.

I have a friend who lives in La Jolla. That area is super nice but crazy expensive.

That is true, maybe as I get older I will start seeing things that way.

 

[Red Lobster Actual]

Never quite got what people saw in California myself. Northern California is nice I guess, but Southern California has cities that pale in comparison to NYC if you're looking for big city living, Austin if you're looking for an artistic, vibrant city, or just about anywhere in Hawaii if you want sun and ocean. California always felt so shallow to me, a veneer of exceptionalism plastered on an objectively unexceptional place.

Uuuhhh Whuut? Mad Jaaack are you being stherious? If you are gonna have this attituuude about like the best like place in the univeeerse jyust dew me uh favor and GIT OUTTA HERE! Git back on Wilshire, take uh right on La Cienega, take it to the 10 West, merge onto the 15 North and let it duuuump you off Las Vegaaas! And I hoooope there's construction on the freeways until YOU JUST CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!

How's that for uh veneeeer of excep-shun-alism plastered on an objectively unexcep-shun-al place! UGH! Now I have to fix my hair from all yer neeeeegative vibes...

 

[dpmd]

Never quite got what people saw in California myself. Northern California is nice I guess, but Southern California has cities that pale in comparison to NYC if you're looking for big city living, Austin if you're looking for an artistic, vibrant city, or just about anywhere in Hawaii if you want sun and ocean. California always felt so shallow to me, a veneer of exceptionalism plastered on an objectively unexceptional place.

If i ever hear of a job in my specialty i would move to Hawaii in a minute. But till then I am content to stay in this smaller town with low cost of living even if i am still paying California taxes.

 

[evooo8]

View attachment 193674

Uuuhhh Whuut? Mad Jaaack are you being stherious? If you are gonna have this attituuude about like the best like place in the univeeerse jyust dew me uh favor and GIT OUTTA HERE! Git back on Wilshire, take uh right on La Cienega, take it to the 10 West, merge onto the 15 North and let it duuuump you off Las Vegaaas! And I hoooope there's construction on the freeways until YOU JUST CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!

How's that for uh veneeeer of excep-shun-alism plastered on an objectively unexcep-shun-al place! UGH! Now I have to fix my hair from all yer neeeeegative vibes...

View attachment 193675

Hahahahahhaah A million likes for this post!!!

 

[Kaustikos]

The problem with the RX8 goes far beyond it's torque curve. Yes, the motor is a little underpowered, especially in contrast to some of the straight six designs out there. But the real problem actually lies in the apex seals. I've worked on a snot-load of cars and often pick up craigslist projects to earn some money on the side, but I won't touch an RX8. The apex seals are good for 70k-130k miles, then they're toast. I see them all over CL at 100k because "Car needs a tune-up."

Run. Away.

Oh hush. No such thing as apex seal problems with any rotary powered cars ever.
But yeah, it sucks. Hence why your first mod is replace the apex seals. Or convert to three rotor engine.

 

[Kaustikos]

I'm sure the nightlife scene and parties look nicer if you have the money during a time when it's socially acceptable to be at all sorts of parties etc.
Though my comparison was about younger vs. older.

Except when you find out insurance companies restrict the miles you can drive the car every year. Like... It's the reason why people don't drive them that much. Porsche's are the only cars I know that are saved from it.
And a Ferrari is NOT a daily driver. The stiff suspension and low ride height will make you cringe at every speed bump and pothole. Because those wheels and tires aren't cheap. Nothing about that car is cheap.

 

[efle]

Never quite got what people saw in California myself. Northern California is nice I guess, but Southern California has cities that pale in comparison to NYC if you're looking for big city living, Austin if you're looking for an artistic, vibrant city, or just about anywhere in Hawaii if you want sun and ocean. California always felt so shallow to me, a veneer of exceptionalism plastered on an objectively unexceptional place.

The culture in San Diego is pretty awesome. Very (relatively for the US) safe, good schools, cleaner than LA, much better weather than most of the country. It's heaven for people starting families in the burbs, but I agree NYC or Austin much better for young people !

 

[slopes23]

Except when you find out insurance companies restrict the miles you can drive the car every year. Like... It's the reason why people don't drive them that much. Porsche's are the only cars I know that are saved from it.
And a Ferrari is NOT a daily driver. The stiff suspension and low ride height will make you cringe at every speed bump and pothole. Because those wheels and tires aren't cheap. Nothing about that car is cheap.

Buy a Maserati for a DD.

 

[Kaustikos]

That's the thing though. It's about doing what makes you happy. One guy is happy with a random car or average house. Another wants an exotic due to his interest for it or a small mansion.

I just can't stand people who hate on those who tend to overspend in their 20s. As I've seen myself, life can easily end any day after 50... not wise to save the fun for then.

It's not that you shouldn't have the right to buy one. But a lot of people buy these cars but don't even know how much it costs to maintain the cars. They come for service and it's a couple grand and they don't have it. They can't afford the tire change. They can't afford changing the belts. They buy these cars thinking the monthly payments are affordable and they have to sell it. And it's not 20 year olds. Older people do it, too. That's why Audi's have dropped in price.
"OMG, the monthly payments are so affordable!"
Followed by
"Wait, the headgaskets cause How much?!?? I can't afford that."
Best example: BMW M3. so many 30 yr old guys bought them and sold them after 30k miles because of cost to own. That's why one should look at the maintenance cost.
Porsche Cayenne is another one. The engine blows up and it's 25 grand for a new one and not covered under warranty. And when you get suckered into buying a used one for 20k.... It hurts.

 

[slopes23]

It's not that you shouldn't have the right to buy one. But a lot of people buy these cars but don't even know how much it costs to maintain the cars. They come for service and it's a couple grand and they don't have it. They can't afford the tire change. They can't afford changing the belts. They buy these cars thinking the monthly payments are affordable and they have to sell it. And it's not 20 year olds. Older people do it, too. That's why Audi's have dropped in price.
"OMG, the monthly payments are so affordable!"
Followed by
"Wait, the headgaskets cause How much?!?? I can't afford that."
Best example: BMW M3. so many 30 yr old guys bought them and sold them after 30k miles because of cost to own. That's why one should look at the maintenance cost.
Porsche Cayenne is another one. The engine blows up and it's 25 grand for a new one and not covered under warranty. And when you get suckered into buying a used one for 20k.... It hurts.

Surely you are referring to used BMW's because a new one comes with a 50,000 mile warranty?

 

[evooo8]

Buy a Maserati for a DD.View attachment 193693

Want so bad! I really liked the changes Maserati made in recent years. I thought their older cars were ugly like the pre 2013 quattroportes.

 

[Hustler101]

Except when you find out insurance companies restrict the miles you can drive the car every year. Like... It's the reason why people don't drive them that much. Porsche's are the only cars I know that are saved from it.
And a Ferrari is NOT a daily driver. The stiff suspension and low ride height will make you cringe at every speed bump and pothole. Because those wheels and tires aren't cheap. Nothing about that car is cheap.

Of course it's not. That's why you get a used A4 and then use the ferrari as a weekend driver. I'd rather struggle to pay for one than not own one when I really want it. What good is the money going to be when I'm old and dying?

 

[Sourgrapesss]

donating all money

 

[slopes23]

Of course it's not. That's why you get a used A4 and then use the ferrari as a weekend driver. I'd rather struggle to pay for one than not own one when I really want it. What good is the money going to be when I'm old and dying?

You will hardly be dying at 55... But if you don't make smart financial planning decisions early on, you very well may be wishing you were.

 

[Hustler101]

You will hardly be dying at 55... But if you don't make smart financial planning decisions early on, you very well may be wishing you were.

Me personally I'll have a massive inheritance during my older years. It's my own money I want to enjoy when I an.
I agree with being smart with your money. I have investments at this moment going into medical school (both stocks and real estate) and did throughout most of undergrad too.
I'm simply saying that earning a high income allows you to finance more expensive things and there is no reason to hold yourself back.

As for age... the likelihood of cancer, heart attack, stroke and so on increase as you get older. So enjoying life while you can is extremely important.

 

[slopes23]

Me personally I'll have a massive inheritance during my older years. It's my own money I want to enjoy when I an.
I agree with being smart with your money. I have investments at this moment going into medical school (both stocks and real estate) and did throughout most of undergrad too.
I'm simply saying that earning a high income allows you to finance more expensive things and there is no reason to hold yourself back.

As for age... the likelihood of cancer, heart attack, stroke and so on increase as you get older. So enjoying life while you can is extremely important.

So let me start off by saying that, there is nothing wrong with having an large inheritance to fall back on.

Having said that, it's very different to be in the unique situation of being able to rely on a "massive inheritance" when you get into your 50's and saying because of that, I have the added luxury of not having to save as much or at all when I am young so I can enjoy my money/life sooner. Versus taking that scenario and coming to the conclusion that hey, life is short, everyone should spend all of their money while there young and not save it for when they get older. For most people, relying on such an inheritance is not a reality of life, and to spend most or all of their income during their younger years would set their families up for financial distress later, including but not limited to not being able to give your family/kids everything they deserve, having to actually move into a smaller house because you can't afford your house anymore, having to work later into your life and delaying retirement significantly, leaving your kids with no or a small inheritance, leaving your wife/family at risk of bankruptcy if something where to happen to you during any of your younger years all the way up to retirement because you will not have saved any money, and your life insurance would go to cover any debts you have present due to your lavish lifestyle and funeral costs etc leaving your family with either nothing or still in partial debt and limited/no way to pay it off.

I could go on and on.

Point being, your "philosophy" is not a philosophy at all, its a privileged situation. That's totally, fine. Doesn't bother me that you have those luxuries, enjoy them in good health. But to give people advice mirrored on that situation is not only incorrect, it is borderline irresponsible.

 

[Hustler101]

So let me start off by saying that, there is nothing wrong with having an large inheritance to fall back on.

Having said that, it's very different to be in the unique situation of being able to rely on a "massive inheritance" when you get into your 50's and saying because of that, I have the added luxury of not having to save as much or at all when I am young so I can enjoy my money/life sooner. Versus taking that scenario and coming to the conclusion that hey, life is short, everyone should spend all of their money while there young and not save it for when they get older. For most people, relying on such an inheritance is not a reality of life, and to spend most or all of their income during their younger years would set their families up for financial distress later, including but not limited to not being able to give your family/kids everything they deserve, having to actually move into a smaller house because you can't afford your house anymore, having to work later into your life and delaying retirement significantly, leaving your kids with no or a small inheritance, leaving your wife/family at risk of bankruptcy if something where to happen to you during any of your younger years all the way up to retirement because you will not have saved any money, and your life insurance would go to cover any debts you have present due to your lavish lifestyle and funeral costs etc leaving your family with either nothing or still in partial debt and limited/no way to pay it off.

I could go on and on.

Point being, your "philosophy" is not a philosophy at all, its a privileged situation. That's totally, fine. Doesn't bother me that you have those luxuries, enjoy them in good health. But to give people advice mirrored on that situation is not only incorrect, it is borderline irresponsible.

I believe in balanced spending that is shifted towards spending rather than investing. In no way do I support blowing all of your money though. I actually spend pretty carefully for the most part myself and only believe in spending more if it's something you truly want.

In the case of a male physician (or anyone making a good income) and your example... the most unwise thing one could do is marry someone who makes significantly less than them. By not doing so you automatically eliminate the family factor that you talked about. Now by marrying someone who is within the same range of income you now greatly increase your spending power. Therefore any of the cons you face can only happen if you're alone and you decide to invest no money at all. In other words just don't make very poor decisions and you'll be set.

 

[slopes23]

I believe in balanced spending that is shifted towards spending rather than investing. In no way do I support blowing all of your money though. I actually spend pretty carefully for the most part myself and only believe in spending more if it's something you truly want.

In the case of a male physician (or anyone making a good income) and your example... the most unwise thing one could do is marry someone who makes significantly less than them. By not doing so you automatically eliminate the family factor that you talked about. Now by marrying someone who is within the same range of income you now greatly increase your spending power. Therefore any of the cons you face can only happen if you're alone and you decide to invest no money at all. In other words just don't make very poor decisions and you'll be set.

Lol not everywoman wants to be a housewife the same way not every woman wants to be a professional. Doesn't make either one a bad choice, its a full time job raising a family.

 

[Stagg737]

Where do you plan on moving if you don't mind me asking? I know California is a trap with very expensive cost of living. But I can't imagine living anywhere else, since 1. So Cal is great and 2. All my family and friends are here, I don't have family in any other state.

I know a lot of people who would disagree, myself included. I can't stand most of the people I've met while there or from there. Combine that with all the problems going on out there and I've got no problem staying far away. To each their own though, and I'm sure I'd have a different opinion if all my family and friends were out there.

Too each his/her own. I'm very close to him and I know he is not buried in debt. He makes 380k a year salary not including multiple side investments including owning a gas station across the street form AT&T stadium where the Dallas Cowboys play, he is originally from Texas and business and investing was his thing prior to going to medical school. His net worth might not be much right now but he is still young, so I'm sure he will be more than fine.

He's obviously not the typical doc then. Not many docs have lucrative side businesses like that, and I'd bet he pulls in a pretty solid income from those side investments. We need more docs out there who are financially savvy though, so I'd try and keep in touch with that guy as much as possible.

The culture in San Diego is pretty awesome. Very (relatively for the US) safe, good schools, cleaner than LA, much better weather than most of the country. It's heaven for people starting families in the burbs, but I agree NYC or Austin much better for young people !

I think that's the only place in Cali I would want to live. Beautiful, great weather, (almost) everyone I met there was at least bearable. I almost forgot I was in California...I'd also give a plug for NOLA. I think I'd give pretty much anything to end up back down there, and it's not just because of the bar scenes and Mardi Gras.

 

[deleted393595]

What to buy when we finally make bank?

A wife.

 

[Hustler101]

Lol not everywoman wants to be a housewife the same way not every woman wants to be a professional. Doesn't make either one a bad choice, its a full time job raising a family.

High income + high divorce rates = poor choice putting up half your income and assets for sale.

 

[efle]

High income + high divorce rates = poor choice putting up half your income and assets for sale.

Prenups

 

[flewsmcgee]

This is the most ridiculously awesome thread I've ever been a part of. We are concurrently having a serious discussion about advantages/disadvantages of various private jets, the folly of rotary engines in automobiles, whether or not California sucks, and finally, prenuptial agreements.

Carry on, gents.

 

[evooo8]

He's obviously not the typical doc then. Not many docs have lucrative side businesses like that, and I'd bet he pulls in a pretty solid income from those side investments. We need more docs out there who are financially savvy though, so I'd try and keep in touch with that guy as much as possible.

Yeah he's a really smart guy and a somewhat close family friend so I'm sure he and I will be in touch. He also wrote one of my letters of recommendation.

 

[Kaustikos]

Surely you are referring to used BMW's because a new one comes with a 50,000 mile warranty?

Warranty doesn't mean everything is covered. Read the fine print and do your homework before assuming X Company covers Y complication. SMG pump failures on those M3's are a good example; $4000, not covered even if you're still under warranty.
Also, warranty never covers tire changes.
M3/M5/AMG Benzes/Porsches/etc; the warranty covers things that go wrong on their part. The suspension, tires, oil changes, gaskets, etc are NOT covered. Oil changes aren't cheap, either. These are the costs which many people think are covered by warranty but aren't. Brake pads? Nope. I mean, the tires on my car cost $800 just for the rear tires.

- edit - and my car is by NO MEANS an exotic sports car, but runs summer sport tires.
Oh, and almost forgot, you'll need winter wheels/tires, too.

Of course it's not. That's why you get a used A4 and then use the ferrari as a weekend driver. I'd rather struggle to pay for one than not own one when I really want it. What good is the money going to be when I'm old and dying?

So... just a heads up; there is a MASSIVE paranoia about driving those kinds of cars on the weekends/out for dinner. You would not believe the things people do when they see nice cars. And...guess what? Insurance doesn't cover vandalism. So, someone keys your car, good luck getting that paid for. Valet decide to have fun with the car? Or did he not? How can you be sure? Friends invite you over to their house in the suburbs and tell you to park it on the street; hmmm... how many things/people/kids/etc could hit your priceless Ferrari. Slashing tires, breaking windows. Again, even if you drive it on weekends, the fear associated with it....

 

[flewsmcgee]

So... just a heads up; there is a MASSIVE paranoia about driving those kinds of cars on the weekends/out for dinner. You would not believe the things people do when they see nice cars. And...guess what? Insurance doesn't cover vandalism. So, someone keys your car, good luck getting that paid for. Valet decide to have fun with the car? Or did he not? How can you be sure? Friends invite you over to their house in the suburbs and tell you to park it on the street; hmmm... how many things/people/kids/etc could hit your priceless Ferrari. Slashing tires, breaking windows. Again, even if you drive it on weekends, the fear associated with it....

I'm not going to say that anyone in this thread should or shouldn't own a sports car one day, but I just wanted to point out that this is a real thing. I am a huge car guy, and after college (I'm a non-trad) I bought a sports car that I wanted since before I could get my license. It was AWESOME for about 2 months, then I got used to it and it just made me anxious all the time. I realized what I actually liked doing was working on/building up cars, and the act of owning a nice car didn't really do anything for me but stress me out. It actually decreased the quality of my life. I sold it and bought a 10 year old beater car and was much happier.

 

[Kaustikos]

I'm not going to say that anyone in this thread should or shouldn't own a sports car one day, but I just wanted to point out that this is a real thing. I am a huge car guy, and after college (I'm a non-trad) I bought a sports car that I wanted since before I could get my license. It was AWESOME for about 2 months, then I got used to it and it just made me anxious all the time. I realized what I actually liked doing was working on/building up cars, and the act of owning a nice car didn't really do anything for me but stress me out. It actually decreased the quality of my life. I sold it and bought a 10 year old beater car and was much happier.

Yup.

Also; read this article for a good idea of cost to own:

Or watch this:

 

[Anicetus]

Yeah he's a really smart guy and a somewhat close family friend so I'm sure he and I will be in touch. He also wrote one of my letters of recommendation.

Like yourself and thousands of other med students, I am also a native SoCal kid. Almost every single one I know wants to move back to their hometown. if I learned anything in my summer between M1 and M2 this year it is that it is going to be incredibly saturated in SoCal and that we will not be as reimbursed as physicians like our rich mentors who started practicing in the 90s and 80s were. A lot of s*** is changing in our healthcare system and all my mentors in SoCal have told me physicians will NOT be as well off as before just so we don't get disappointed by beliefs that used to come with being a rockstar physician in SoCal.

This thread is absolute poison.... Except for the people planning on living in places with less saturation and laughably lower taxes than California.

 

[masaraksh]

It's not that you shouldn't have the right to buy one. But a lot of people buy these cars but don't even know how much it costs to maintain the cars. They come for service and it's a couple grand and they don't have it. They can't afford the tire change. They can't afford changing the belts. They buy these cars thinking the monthly payments are affordable and they have to sell it. And it's not 20 year olds. Older people do it, too. That's why Audi's have dropped in price.
"OMG, the monthly payments are so affordable!"
Followed by
"Wait, the headgaskets cause How much?!?? I can't afford that."
Best example: BMW M3. so many 30 yr old guys bought them and sold them after 30k miles because of cost to own. That's why one should look at the maintenance cost.
Porsche Cayenne is another one. The engine blows up and it's 25 grand for a new one and not covered under warranty. And when you get suckered into buying a used one for 20k.... It hurts.

Why do I feel no sympathy when people who buy Cayenne's get f*$&@ed

 

[slopes23]

Warranty doesn't mean everything is covered. Read the fine print and do your homework before assuming X Company covers Y complication. SMG pump failures on those M3's are a good example; $4000, not covered even if you're still under warranty.
Also, warranty never covers tire changes.
M3/M5/AMG Benzes/Porsches/etc; the warranty covers things that go wrong on their part. The suspension, tires, oil changes, gaskets, etc are NOT covered. Oil changes aren't cheap, either. These are the costs which many people think are covered by warranty but aren't. Brake pads? Nope. I mean, the tires on my car cost $800 just for the rear tires.

- edit - and my car is by NO MEANS an exotic sports car, but runs summer sport tires.
Oh, and almost forgot, you'll need winter wheels/tires, too.



So... just a heads up; there is a MASSIVE paranoia about driving those kinds of cars on the weekends/out for dinner. You would not believe the things people do when they see nice cars. And...guess what? Insurance doesn't cover vandalism. So, someone keys your car, good luck getting that paid for. Valet decide to have fun with the car? Or did he not? How can you be sure? Friends invite you over to their house in the suburbs and tell you to park it on the street; hmmm... how many things/people/kids/etc could hit your priceless Ferrari. Slashing tires, breaking windows. Again, even if you drive it on weekends, the fear associated with it....

Sooo.... I am not sure where you are getting all your info that these things aren't covered on a BMW (note, I make no defense on any other brand as I am unfamiliar), but BMW's new car warranty is comprehensive. It in fact DOES include the SMG pump on the M series (assuming it fails during the warranty period), it does cover suspension, oil changes, gaskets, etc. Even brakes are covered. The only thing on your list that you correctly stated as not being covered is tires. The run flat tires are pretty expensive and its like $1100 for a set of 4 from the stealership.

Source: Personally owned a new 335i (and took European Delivery on it too), a new X3 28i, and a cert. pre-owned 535xi.

But, continue with your tirade. Not sure who would buy any BMW new and not be able to afford the tires. Yeah they are expensive, but if its expensive to the point where you have to sell the car, they had no business buying the car in the first place.

 

[Kaustikos]

Sooo.... I am not sure where you are getting all your info that these things aren't covered on a BMW (note, I make no defense on any other brand as I am unfamiliar), but BMW's new car warranty is comprehensive. It in fact DOES include the SMG pump on the M series (assuming it fails during the warranty period), it does cover suspension, oil changes, gaskets, etc. Even brakes are covered. The only thing on your list that you correctly stated as not being covered is tires. The run flat tires are pretty expensive and its like $1100 for a set of 4 from the stealership.

Source: Personally owned a new 335i (and took European Delivery on it too), a new X3 28i, and a cert. pre-owned 535xi.

But, continue with your tirade. Not sure who would buy any BMW new and not be able to afford the tires. Yeah they are expensive, but if its expensive to the point where you have to sell the car, they had no business buying the car in the first place.

Uh, no, it doesn't.
It doesn't cover tire changes or anything for sports cars. There's a difference between a non-m3 and a sports car.
The SMG IS NOT FULLY COVERED. Even if they cover it, the cost is minimal. And given they tend to go out after the warranty period questions how loyal they are to these pumps.
Also note the joke that these pumps fail after the warranty. Which is hurtful because a new clutch and flywheel for a manual M3 is significantly cheaper and lasts longer.
And new tires, brake pads, etc are normal wear and tear. Not warranty. Especially in the M class. You're reading that they cover it, but how much? How often?
My old 335 had lots of coverage, but that's fine. Sports cars are restricted in warranty.

You're talking to someone who's been around sports cars his whole life. Even the Subaru Sti and Mitsubishi Evolution have a stellar maintenance cost. These cars are meant to be raced and hence why you assume the cost of ownership and maintenance.
If you come in with your M3 at 15k miles wanting new brake pads for your massive caliper brakes, that raises an eye brow.
In the end, I'm not saying its wrong. I understand it. I don't expect a dealer to cover these things. However, when you buy a car and the engine explodes at 100k not due to negligence but design flaw and the company doesn't cover it or own up to it, that's bull****. Happened with the Carreras in the 00s. They offered "30%" which is a joke when it costs 16k. But that's the reality of owning these cars.
But I agree with your latter statement. But it's a reality. I've seen it countless times. People buying high end cars and not being able to afford the upkeep.

 

[slopes23]

Uh, no, it doesn't.
It doesn't cover tire changes or anything for sports cars. There's a difference between a non-m3 and a sports car.
The SMG IS NOT FULLY COVERED. Even if they cover it, the cost is minimal. And given they tend to go out after the warranty period questions how loyal they are to these pumps.
And new tires, brake pads, etc are normal wear and tear. Not warranty. Especially in the M class.
My old 335 had lots of coverage, but that's fine. Sports cars are restricted in warranty.

You're talking to someone who's been around sports cars his whole life. Even the Subaru Sti and Mitsubishi Evolution have a stellar maintenance cost. These cars are meant to be raced and hence why you assume the cost of ownership and maintenance.
If you come in with your M3 at 15k miles wanting new brake pads for your massive caliper brakes, that raises an eye brow.

But I agree with your latter statement. But it's a reality. I've seen it countless times. People buying high end cars and not being able to afford the upkeep.

I never said tire changes are covered...... In fact I specifically said they aren't.
Unless the brakes are specifically Carbon Ceramic brakes, such as the ones found on the M class, they are in fact covered if they exceed BMW wear limits. The trick is that they are designed to exceed the warranty before the wear limit hits. 50k brake pad is not bad.
Clearly you haven't heard of BMW's Ultimate Service program that comes standard with any new BMW, just about everything other than tires.

You clearly are too caught up in your life around cars to admit you are wrong on this one. I looked this up specifically for the M5.

"The BMW Maintenance Program is a benefit designed to help reduce the cost of ownership. This program has been devised with the following objectives: to maximize vehicle safety, reliability, and resale value by minimizing breakdowns resulting from wear, and minimizing cost and inconvenience by computing maintenance intervals based upon the specific manner in which each individual vehicle is driven.

A 2014 M5 and M6 vehicle purchased from an authorized BMW center in the United States (including Puerto Rico) is covered by the BMW Maintenance Program for 48 months or 50,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Coverage begins on the date of first retail sale or the date the vehicle is first placed into service as a sales demonstrator, Aftersales Mobility Program (AMP) Vehicle or BMW Group company vehicle, whichever is earlier.

Any authorized BMW center in the United States (including Puerto Rico) will perform the scheduled and/or additional maintenance services on your vehicle at no expense to you so long as your vehicle qualifies for coverage under the BMW Maintenance Program.

Coverage

The BMW Maintenance Program covers all factory recommended maintenance, as determined by the Condition Based Service (CBS) system. Additional specific items that need replacement due to normal wear and tear, and that are not covered by the original New Vehicle Limited Warranty - such as brake pads*, brake rotors*, and wiper blade inserts - are included, provided wear and tear exceeds BMW wear limits. Any applicable adjustments required due to normal operating conditions are also included. See pages 6 - 8 of this booklet for additional information.

*Important Note: Carbon Ceramic Brake System brake rotors and pads are not covered under the BMW Maintenance Program."

So, you may very well be someone who has been around sports cars his whole life, but so have I. More importantly however, I have owned 3 BMW's and know about the warranty from first hand experience with the brand over the course of 8 years. I don't see where there is an argument to be had here.

Moreover, things are either covered or they are not. You can't sort of replace a failed SMP pump. Additionally, I never said anything about certain cars not having known problems, and I never said they were not expensive to maintain post warranty. What I did say was that while under warranty, its comprehensive and everything is pretty much covered except for wheels, and brake pads if they are Carbon Ceramic pads.

My only point was that you were saying lots of people bought a M3 and dumped them after 30k miles because the maintenance including oil changes and the like were too expensive, and I was just letting you know that, its not true because the maintenance is free and included on new vehicles and on certified pre-owned as well up to the 50k mile mark (and/or 48 months).

 

[Kaustikos]

I never said tire changes are covered...... In fact I specifically said they aren't.
Unless the brakes are specifically Carbon Ceramic brakes, such as the ones found on the M class, they are in fact covered if they exceed BMW wear limits. The trick is that they are designed to exceed the warranty before the wear limit hits. 50k brake pad is not bad.
Clearly you haven't heard of BMW's Ultimate Service program that comes standard with any new BMW, just about everything other than tires.

You clearly are too caught up in your life around cars to admit you are wrong on this one. I looked this up specifically for the M5.

"The BMW Maintenance Program is a benefit designed to help reduce the cost of ownership. This program has been devised with the following objectives: to maximize vehicle safety, reliability, and resale value by minimizing breakdowns resulting from wear, and minimizing cost and inconvenience by computing maintenance intervals based upon the specific manner in which each individual vehicle is driven.

A 2014 M5 and M6 vehicle purchased from an authorized BMW center in the United States (including Puerto Rico) is covered by the BMW Maintenance Program for 48 months or 50,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Coverage begins on the date of first retail sale or the date the vehicle is first placed into service as a sales demonstrator, Aftersales Mobility Program (AMP) Vehicle or BMW Group company vehicle, whichever is earlier.

Any authorized BMW center in the United States (including Puerto Rico) will perform the scheduled and/or additional maintenance services on your vehicle at no expense to you so long as your vehicle qualifies for coverage under the BMW Maintenance Program.

Coverage

The BMW Maintenance Program covers all factory recommended maintenance, as determined by the Condition Based Service (CBS) system. Additional specific items that need replacement due to normal wear and tear, and that are not covered by the original New Vehicle Limited Warranty - such as brake pads*, brake rotors*, and wiper blade inserts - are included, provided wear and tear exceeds BMW wear limits. Any applicable adjustments required due to normal operating conditions are also included. See pages 6 - 8 of this booklet for additional information.

*Important Note: Carbon Ceramic Brake System brake rotors and pads are not covered under the BMW Maintenance Program."

So, you may very well be someone who has been around sports cars his whole life, but so have I. More importantly however, I have owned 3 BMW's and know about the warranty from first hand experience with the brand over the course of 8 years. I don't see where there is an argument to be had here.

My only point was that you were saying lots of people bought a M3 and dumped them after 30k miles because the maintanence including oil changes and the like were too expensive, and I was just letting you know that, its not true because the maintanence is free and included on new vehicles and on certified pre-owned as well up to the 50k mile mark (and/or 48 months).

Yeah,
Just "covered". Which is up to the dealer.
Also,
All M series are carbon ceramic.
Also, condition based Service means, again, they determine what they cover and how much.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying warranty covers your car. I'm saying that owners of these performance vehicles need to be aware of the additional cost associated with them regardless of warranty. When you own an M3, 4, 5 or 6, you're going to be spending some money owning it. The warranty is nice, but it's not 100%. The true test is looking at how bad cars depreciate in value. The M5s are cheap for a reason. Cayenne are cheap for a reason. The M3 has survived not because of its warranty, but because of longevity. The SMG pump is a minor hurdle to someone who spent 60k for the car. But if you have someone who's just looking at the monthly payments and not the rest, you're in for a world of hurt.

The cost of ownership is not a lie. Sports cars are expensive to own and no self naming enthusiast should rely on a warranty to serve their needs.

Also, I apologize, I forgot to add that there are a significant amount of new M owners who deliberately abuse/mistreat the cars.

And again, I'm talking the sports cars of BMW: the m model. Which, suffice to say, I can tell you that even the new M cars don't get the same treatment as the other models. I'm not insulting BMW, just making it clear that even if you exclude the smg, the tires, brake pads, etc add up. A lot. Your run flats are a god send. But the tires on those cars run upwards of 2k+. And you HAVE to get another set of wheels and tires for winter. Unless you're a cheap person who gets all season tires. Which case, why did you buy the car.

You're making a bad comparison by talking about a (very weak) warranty which covers 50k miles which is nothing for any owner of a car. That's maybe two visits to a dealer for maintenance.
Gaskets don't get repaired until the 100k point. Clutches are past 50k easily.
My point about the dudes buying M3 and selling it is literally because they couldn't afford it.

 

[slopes23]

I agree, that gaskets and clutches last outside of the warranty. I was only asking about your specific example of owners dropping the car after 30k miles..... Nothing else. Totally agree that sports cars are expensive to maintain long term, which is why a lot of people sell them after the warranty, but not many people sell them while warranty is still covering.


Also, the dealership can't just say we will cover this wont cover that, they have specific parameters of what they considered to be the BMW wear limits... They don't just make it up on the spot.

Anyways, I think we have reached a plateau in our conversation and I'm cool with leaving it at that.

 

[Kaustikos]

I agree, that gaskets and clutches last outside of the warranty. I was only asking about your specific example of owners dropping the car after 30k miles..... Nothing else. Totally agree that sports cars are expensive to maintain long term, which is why a lot of people sell them after the warranty, but not many people sell them while warranty is still covering.


Also, the dealership can't just say we will cover this wont cover that, they have specific parameters of what they considered to be the BMW wear limits... They don't just make it up on the spot.

Anyways, I think we have reached a plateau in our conversation and I'm cool with leaving it at that.

The comments about the 30k owners was a comment regarding the 2001-2006 M3. Which happened again with the Evo/STi and the newer M3s. They get caught in the hype and can't afford it. That's what I meant. Not everyone is like this. Its also why when I buy a used car, I look at the records of owners and maintenance. I'm not a fan of new, only because the warranty doesn't offer me benefits worth the depreciation. Plus... I modify my cars which voids them lol

And the last part: I can't argue with facts but from experience of other owners. So, you're right that I might be biased, but it's partly due to the old adage about cars:
Cheap
Fast
Reliable
Pick two.

 

[Hyde]

Sooo.... I am not sure where you are getting all your info that these things aren't covered on a BMW (note, I make no defense on any other brand as I am unfamiliar), but BMW's new car warranty is comprehensive.

Yeah, but I've heard that BMW service departments bite 50 states wide.

 

[NeedToStudy]

Is it totally childish of me to say that I'm going to buy a Wii U and Donkey Kong tropical freeze?

 

[TBV]

bugatti matte black