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Splenda88 said:
From reading this thread, it seems like there is some issues making a nice living in pod w/o a lot of hassle (emphasis on "a lot").

Why are so many attracted to pod? Is it because you are a surgeon from the get go? I remember looking at pod stats when I applied to med school in 2013 (matriculated in 2014), pod stats (3.3c/3.2s and 22 MCAT) weren't that far apart from bottom tier DO schools (3.5/3.3 and 25 MCAT). I guess 30-40% of matriculants of pod school could have gotten into DO school if they were willing to retake the MCAT and spend an extra year to increase their GPAs...

Maybe I am not gung ho about any particular field in medicine to the point I am willing to look pass 300k student debt without the ability to make a good living without any big hassle.

For context, I was supposed to start pharmacy school in 2013 and once I saw pharmacists in SDN telling people not to do it. I dropped everything and studied hard for the MCAT... The rest is history. I am a board certified IM doc now.
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Cool man. Why are you in this forum?
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Splenda88 said:
Still enjoying my vacation... I am bored. :)
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Having to answer this question every day gets so old...
It's like asking your colleagues why they didn't go to Harvard for undergrad, Johns Hopkins for med school, and become a neurosurgeon? I'm convinced there's no other profession out there that has to justify its existence than ours
 
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cmsfootdoc said:
Having to answer this question every day gets so old...
It's like asking your colleagues why they didn't go to Harvard for undergrad, Johns Hopkins for med school, and become a neurosurgeon? I'm convinced there's no other profession out there that has to justify its existence than ours
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Your point is...
 
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diabeticfootdr said:
Welcome to the University of Texas!
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Here’s the problem in my opinion: smart guy, great teacher. He can teach the students all they want in the classroom but if they don’t see it or apply it clinically in the area, it won’t be very effective.
 
Creflo said:
Why would CPME allow another school? What were they thinking?
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CPME realistically probably only should care that there are enough residencies and the school has said all the right things as far as trying to create new residencies etc.

A Texas school has been in the works for decades, but do we need another school? The answer is no, if we base it on the job market and not on the number of available residencies and federal loans available to future students.
 
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New Job Posting……..we definitely need another school

Are you our next hire?

Responsibilities will include but not be limited to medical and surgical treatment of foot and ankle conditions. Experience in private practice a plus but not required. CPME board certification or qualification required (ABFAS or ABPM). Residency training of at least 24 months, prefer 36 with rear foot and ankle training.

Please include your resume and a letter with the subject line saying "I am an amazing foot doctor" expressing your interest in the position.

Thank you and we can't wait to meet you!

Job Types: Full-time, Contract

Pay: $100,000.00 - $125,000.00 per year

Same city multiple NP jobs 125,000-200,000 most with better benefits

Admittedly a saturated city (New Jersey) but still…….ridiculous to COMPETE for a job like this
 
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icebreaker32 said:
New Job Posting……..we definitely need another school

Are you our next hire?

Responsibilities will include but not be limited to medical and surgical treatment of foot and ankle conditions. Experience in private practice a plus but not required. CPME board certification or qualification required (ABFAS or ABPM). Residency training of at least 24 months, prefer 36 with rear foot and ankle training.

Please include your resume and a letter with the subject line saying "I am an amazing foot doctor" expressing your interest in the position.

Thank you and we can't wait to meet you!

Job Types: Full-time, Contract

Pay: $100,000.00 - $125,000.00 per year

Same city multiple NP jobs 125,000-200,000 most with better benefits

Admittedly a saturated city (New Jersey) but still…….ridiculous to COMPETE for a job like this
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It's sad but clearly the school was not opened with the best interest of the profession at heart. There are a small number of opportunists seeking to make as much money as possible. The same thing happened with Pharmacy and the same thing happened with Law.

To any prospective students reading this, I implore you to seek a different career path or take a year or two to make yourself more competitive for DO school. Podiatry is already not viable for many graduates and once this school dumps another 40+ into an already horribly saturated labor market, it probably won't be viable for most of us.
 
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icebreaker32 said:
New Job Posting……..we definitely need another school

Are you our next hire?

Responsibilities will include but not be limited to medical and surgical treatment of foot and ankle conditions. Experience in private practice a plus but not required. CPME board certification or qualification required (ABFAS or ABPM). Residency training of at least 24 months, prefer 36 with rear foot and ankle training.

Please include your resume and a letter with the subject line saying "I am an amazing foot doctor" expressing your interest in the position.

Thank you and we can't wait to meet you!

Job Types: Full-time, Contract

Pay: $100,000.00 - $125,000.00 per year

Same city multiple NP jobs 125,000-200,000 most with better benefits

Admittedly a saturated city (New Jersey) but still…….ridiculous to COMPETE for a job like this
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Don’t some residencies in that area pay like $65-70k. What other profession forces them to take on $300k in debt, 11 years of education (4 undergrad + 7 pod/residency) to essentially make minimum wage when you include loans?

Sad. Pathetic. This profession is finished. To all the pre pods please go do something else with your life. Like be a nurse who travels and makes $5,000+ a week working 3 days a week.

Thanks.
 
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ToeFather said:
Don’t some residencies in that area pay like $65-70k. What other profession forces them to take on $300k in debt, 11 years of education (4 undergrad + 7 pod/residency) to essentially make minimum wage when you include loans?

Sad. Pathetic. This profession is finished. To all the pre pods please go do something else with your life. Like be a nurse who travels and makes $5,000+ a week working 3 days a week.

Thanks.
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Podiatry has the same problems it has always had. Everyone getting 3 year residencies has not improved things that much, it just made for longer training without increased compensation.

Also demand for other professions has increased significantly and podiatry has stayed the same.....which never had a great job market.

Podiatry is more of a risk compared to many other professions. Some will do very well and some will not. It is not like being an MD/DO where the person who finishes last in their class also does very well.
 
icebreaker32 said:
Podiatry has the same problems it has always had. Everyone getting 3 year residencies has not improved things that much, it just made for longer training without increased compensation.

Also demand for other professions has increased significantly and podiatry has stayed the same.....which never had a great job market.

Podiatry is more of a risk compared to many other professions. Some will do very well and some will not. It is not like being an MD/DO where the person who finishes last in their class also does very well.
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Podiatry is awful. Surgeons that are paid like Walmart managers
 
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CutsWithFury said:
Is this supposed to make the school more legitimate?

Is Harkless going to single handedly create another residency shortage when he doesn’t develop new residency programs again?
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We should be hoping for a residency shortage at this point….
 
Splenda88 said:
Why are so many attracted to pod? Is it because you are a surgeon from the get go? I remember looking at pod stats when I applied to med school in 2013 (matriculated in 2014), pod stats (3.3c/3.2s and 22 MCAT) weren't that far apart from bottom tier DO schools (3.5/3.3 and 25 MCAT). I guess 30-40% of matriculants of pod school could have gotten into DO school if they were willing to retake the MCAT and spend an extra year to increase their GPAs...
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You have to score well in each subsection of the MCAT. I know people who ended up in podiatry and the Caribbean because they couldn't get their CARS score up

Just saying. Retaking MCAT doesn't automatically mean you'll beat CARS
 
Prehealth1011 said:
You have to score well in each subsection of the MCAT. I know people who ended up in podiatry and the Caribbean because they couldn't get their CARS score up

Just saying. Retaking MCAT doesn't automatically mean you'll beat CARS
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Not sure about that. I scored (11PS 9BS and 7VR) and got accepted to both DO and a low tier MD.

And if English is your first language, I don't see why you can't score 8+ in VR. I scored 7 as an ESOL applicant after being here for 12 yrs.
 
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Really sick and tired of this agenda being pushed by a few podiatrists. We don’t need another school. I’m unsure why a handful of podiatrists have so much power and nobody can stop them.
 
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Let me start teeing up my associate offer letters for 85-100k in 7 years!
 
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Did y’all read the announcement by their dean? He said the class of 27 students had competitive stats, that over 100 applicants already applied for next years class and claims this is is significant. Zero track record, zero graduates, in a terrible
Location. Worst of all, where are they going to do their rotations? Practice limb salvage on mannequins? This whole limb salvage focus of their school is ridiculous. We are over complicating something that does not need to be. I feel bad for these students that have been suckered into a false reality.

There’s numerous red flags yet Lee Rogers, Harkless, the dean - choose to ignore them. I wonder why.
 
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wakaflocka88 said:
Did y’all read the announcement by their dean? He said the class of 27 students had competitive stats, that over 100 applicants already applied for next years class and claims this is is significant. Zero track record, zero graduates, in a terrible
Location. Worst of all, where are they going to do their rotations? Practice limb salvage on mannequins? This whole limb salvage focus of their school is ridiculous. We are over complicating something that does not need to be. I feel bad for these students that have been suckered into a false reality.

There’s numerous red flags yet Lee Rogers, Harkless, the dean - choose to ignore them. I wonder why.
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Harlingen ain’t that bad. They got some bomb churros.
 
wakaflocka88 said:
Did y’all read the announcement by their dean? He said the class of 27 students had competitive stats, that over 100 applicants already applied for next years class and claims this is is significant. Zero track record, zero graduates, in a terrible
Location. Worst of all, where are they going to do their rotations? Practice limb salvage on mannequins? This whole limb salvage focus of their school is ridiculous. We are over complicating something that does not need to be. I feel bad for these students that have been suckered into a false reality.

There’s numerous red flags yet Lee Rogers, Harkless, the dean - choose to ignore them. I wonder why.
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They are so noble with their limb salvage focus. Since all the current greedy podiatrists finishing residencies are only choosing those high paying elective surgery jobs that….…do NOT even exist for the majority of graduating residents

Maybe the school can show us where all these good limb salvage jobs are that are going unfilled.…..good luck with that as the ones that do exist are all filled. Maybe the absolute last somewhat low hanging fruit left in the entire profession…….IHS jobs will become ultra competitive like everything else and those are only a couple jobs anyways.

The school should go even one step further. After they prove there are good limb salvage jobs going unfilled in community hospitals all across Texas, they can provide full scholarships for any student willing to take these imaginary jobs after residency.…..just like many state MD schools do for those who practice primary care in underserved areas.

With all these new schools the ONLY thing stopping a nuclear meltdown for the future students is decreased applicants.
 
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Weirdy said:
So why not Texas? - because there is no demand. There are no quality residency slots to fill another 40 graduates every year. A Texas school is a money grab used for politics at the expense of current students and graduates. Why not Texas? Why not Alaska?- because there is absolutely zero demand.

If tuition is lower for in state students that is a good thing- at the expense of what? Another residency shortage? Do you want podiatry to go the same way pharmacy is headed?

Of course they are going to find enough students to make it economically viable for themselves. You market podiatry as a guaranteed surgical specialty to a state like Texas with tons of Bio degree holders who couldn't get into MD or DO- it will blow up. But this only benefits the people holding the money bags. Again- there is nothing in your post looking at the big picture. We do NOT have enough quality residency slots. We do NOT have the demand in the US to support another influx of 40 more graduates on top of the 500+ we are ALREADY graduating.

If there was a a need- again- there is ZERO need right now. ZERO. It took years for the 2014 shortage to self balance.

I don't understand how people can come on this forum and blatantly lie about this school being a good thing for this profession and NOT mention the FUTURE effects it will have on the 500-600 graduates every year. How can you tell me straight-faced that this is neutral or even good for our profession?? It makes NO SENSE.

Edit: This was pretty rude of me and now i sound off my rocker. I will apologize for my language, but I will not apologize for thinking it is insane how people can shamelessly tout this as a net positive for the profession without thinking of the hundreds of 4th years who will not match and the hundreds of poorly trained DPMs we are flooding into the profession.
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this new school is dog****. we don't even need the schools we already have, like temple nad NYCPM with their 100+ classes. **** we need like half the podiatrists we currently have
 
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Well, interestingly we received a call-out of sorts in an Podiatry Management article entitled "Sending out an SOS - A decline in the applicant pool threatens podiatry".

"...we are seeing high-quality applicants sour on a career in podiatric medicine after speaking with a disgruntled DPM or reading spurious comments posted in various social media forums."
 
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Leave it to some old DPM to not understand that a website/Internet forum is not “social media.”

Actual podiatry social media is very positive about the profession.

I’m also not shocked that they don’t understand the basic concept of supply and demand. Want to see your salary go up or your insurance contracts improve? Get rid of thousands of podiatrists without thousands more to replace them. You’ll have locums opportunities, more employment opportunities, associate contracts will have to become more attractive when they actually have to compete for a limited number of applicants. We should graduate half as many DPMs as we do every year for awhile…
 
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dtrack22 said:
Leave it to some old DPM to not understand that a website/Internet forum is not “social media.”

Actual podiatry social media is very positive about the profession.

I’m also not shocked that they don’t understand the basic concept of supply and demand. Want to see your salary go up or your insurance contracts improve? Get rid of thousands of podiatrists without thousands more to replace them. You’ll have locums opportunities, more employment opportunities, associate contracts will have to become more attractive when they actually have to compete for a limited number of applicants. We should graduate half as many DPMs as we do every year for awhile…
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I think you're underestimating these old crusty DPMs. I believe that they know exactly what they're doing. They want this continued overabundance of fresh associates to take advantage of.
 
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Pronation said:
I think you're underestimating these old crusty DPMs. I believe that they know exactly what they're doing. They want this continued overabundance of fresh associates to take advantage of.
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I assume some of the larger organizations that sell ads for garbage products or booths are conferences are worried about decreasing viewership leading to lower rates.
 
heybrother said:
Well, interestingly we received a call-out of sorts in an Podiatry Management article entitled "Sending out an SOS - A decline in the applicant pool threatens podiatry".

"...we are seeing high-quality applicants sour on a career in podiatric medicine after speaking with a disgruntled DPM or reading spurious comments posted in various social media forums."
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One of the main reasons I think students turn away from podiatry is the length of training is just not worth it for the pay. With 4 years of school + 3 years of residency you train as long as an MD/DO without getting paid like a real doctor. If an applicant doesn’t go MD/DO they could go to dental school, PA school, etc. with a much better payoff when it comes to time vs. compensation. I really think we should have a shorter but more intense residency.
 
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call1800doctorb said:
PA school
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Speaking of, PAs doing inpatient and ED work are $100-150 per hour at our facility. That’s $200k and up for a physician assistant. That’s $200k+ for 3 years of school and then on the job training.

I didn’t know they were getting paid that well (and they can find work all over the country) until I started talking with one of the PAs that works at our hospital.
 
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call1800doctorb said:
One of the main reasons I think students turn away from podiatry is the length of training is just not worth it for the pay. With 4 years of school + 3 years of residency you train as long as an MD/DO without getting paid like a real doctor. If an applicant doesn’t go MD/DO they could go to dental school, PA school, etc. with a much better payoff when it comes to time vs. compensation. I really think we should have a shorter but more intense residency.
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I agree that the return on investment simply isn't there for Podiatry (not for about 90% of people who end up graduating anyways). Other professions seem to do a better job self-regulating themselves to keep their profession viable and attractive. We were ALREADY heavily saturated BEFORE the powers that be decided to open a 10th school.

I mean, a hospitalist or general surgeon can find work anywhere. Sure, they will make more in rural locations due to supply/demand, but they can still find work in major metros no problem. It's just not like that for us. We are the only health profession I can think of (maybe Pharmacy?) that routinely tells our new grads to cold call rural hospitals and critical access facilities in the middle of nowhere to hope for a chance of getting paid 150k+.
 
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call1800doctorb said:
One of the main reasons I think students turn away from podiatry is the length of training is just not worth it for the pay. With 4 years of school + 3 years of residency you train as long as an MD/DO without getting paid like a real doctor. If an applicant doesn’t go MD/DO they could go to dental school, PA school, etc. with a much better payoff when it comes to time vs. compensation. I really think we should have a shorter but more intense residency.
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I think if you take a look at the podiatry applicant pool stats, and compare it with either Dental or PA school entrance stats, you will find that 80% of pod applicants wouldn't even be competitive for those fields either, let alone MD/DO.
dtrack22 said:
Speaking of, PAs doing inpatient and ED work are $100-150 per hour at our facility. That’s $200k and up for a physician assistant. That’s $200k+ for 3 years of school and then on the job training.

I didn’t know they were getting paid that well (and they can find work all over the country) until I started talking with one of the PAs that works at our hospital.
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And yes, PA's and NP's can do very well. As an anecdote, my NP relative in CA is employed at $200-250k+, and so are all of her colleagues.
 
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PatchAdamsFan said:
I think if you take a look at the podiatry applicant pool stats, and compare it with either Dental or PA school entrance stats, you will find that 80% of pod applicants wouldn't even be competitive for those fields either, let alone MD/DO.
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The average podiatry student applicant (based on GPA alone) would not be competitive for nursing/ physician assistant or even some very good physical therapy schools at top universities.

Podiatry school pushes through some people who have no business being called doctor let alone cutting on people.

Schools are upset because the applicant pool is dwindling…not because they care about the future of the profession but because their jobs are on the line if they don’t get students to fill the seats. Less tuition money coming in means teacher salaries start to become expendable.
 
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Dr. Trepal believes the profession must go after low-hanging fruit.

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this is like Trump saying "I love the poorly educated."
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"Unfortunately, we are seeing high-quality applicants sour on a career in podiatric medicine after speaking with a disgruntled DPM or reading spurious comments posted in various social media forums"

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translation.... you are mad that people are doing due diligence before enrolling in your school, spending 7 more years of school/residency, racking up debt to their nose to find out that podiatry isnt a cash cow for all.
 
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Podiatry should be 3 yrs of school and 2 yr residency. + fellowship for everyone. You don’t need 7 yrs to fix an ankle sprain and cut nails. Less debt, less time, ROI much better. If you can’t be competent in podiatry in 5 yrs then you probably will suck as a doctor with 7.
 
podwho said:
Podiatry should be 3 yrs of school and 2 yr residency. + fellowship for everyone. You don’t need 7 yrs to fix an ankle sprain and cut nails. Less debt, less time, ROI much better. If you can’t be competent in podiatry in 5 yrs then you probably will suck as a doctor with 7.
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No no. It should be a 6 week zoom course. +fellowship additional 2 week zoom course and then obtain ABPM board certification with added CAQ in total toenail replacement surgery
 
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GreenHousePub said:
Sidebar - do people who did that like 3 week Bako dermatopathology fellowship call it a fellowship on their CVs? Also is that thing even around anymore?
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It’s a “mini-fellowship”, my CV reflects this. I also made sure it states 2 WEEK course.

It annoys me seeing people “fellowship trained” there. There is a true derm 1 yr fellowship, but it aint this.
 
GreenHousePub said:
Sidebar - do people who did that like 3 week Bako dermatopathology fellowship call it a fellowship on their CVs? Also is that thing even around anymore?
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It’s not a fellowship. Anybody who puts that on their CV is completely dumb and has a lot of insecurity. They probably should see a psychologist.

My residency made me do it before Brad got busted for cocaine and hitting women. It was the biggest waste of time in my life.
 
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On behalf of the Board of Directors, AACPM Chairman Eric D. Stamps, DPM remarked, “The UTRGV School of Podiatric Medicine, with its mission of developing a diverse, compassionate student body, will contribute to the efforts to diversify the podiatric workforce. The new college will also advance the Association’s mission of providing a national forum for the exchange of ideas and issues relating to podiatric medical education. We welcome the University of Texas Rio Grande Valley School of Podiatric Medicine to the Association.”

This is what the schools mission is?
 
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I'm surprized nobody mentioned Graham Hamilton being on faculty of Utrgv new pod school... he is a bigger name, a whole lot of impactful research, many good education lecture + vids + solid Kaiser-SF residents trained, and more of an overall podiatry influencer than any others mentioned so far imo.

They must have thrown these people a truck load of $$$ to go from various sunny and beach-filled and high culture places and down to the b-hole of Texas??? Wow.
 
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Feli said:
I'm surprized nobody mentioned Graham Hamilton being on faculty of Utrgv new pod school... he is a bigger name, a whole lot of impactful research, many good education lecture + vids + solid Kaiser-SF residents trained, and more of an overall podiatry influencer than any others mentioned so far imo.

They must have thrown these people a truck load of $$$ to go from various sunny and beach-filled and high culture places and down to the b-hole of Texas??? Wow.
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No way he is permanent faculty. He left Kaiser to work at Palo Alto Foundation just 1-2 years ago. No way he would jump ship to teach
 
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I don't know for sure but some of the big names who didn't move to RGV are probably guest lecturers who may lecture via zoom or fly in to town to give a few lectures/lead a few workshops. Maybe a 0.1 FTE or similar.
 
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CutsWithFury said:
No way he is permanent faculty. He left Kaiser to work at Palo Alto Foundation just 1-2 years ago. No way he would jump ship to teach
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He left PAMF and joined a private ortho group. Great guy, really smart.
 
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