Welcome to The UTRGV School of Podiatric Medicine!

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To any future students: please do not make life-altering decisions based on SDN. Go out in the real world, shadow, and decide from these experiences. To put things into perspective, there are about 18K practicing DPMs in the US. The residents and the physicians of this forum help by sharing their experiences of the real world, which some of you may not understand. Don't be discouraged; instead, read, learn and find the answers yourself. But don't make decisions based on others' experiences (good or bad).

Let's get back to the Tx school.

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Nobody is saying that good DPM training isn't out there... that high level DPMs aren't out there... that it can't be a good job. We all know that it can... for the top 25-50% of the class or those who get "lucky."

Dilution cheapens any profession, though. It makes is so that there is not enough quality training... not enough quality finished product individuals. We are judged by our lowest common denominator.

If you see most chiros, they are peddling vitamins, various cash services, insoles, etc... since they are highly saturated in most areas. Hospital jobs are basically nonexistent. Most insurances cover their services minimally. The chiros who really studied and might be high level are unfortunately lumped in with the ones peddling elderberries on Youtube or trying to pretend they do "spinal procedures" on a billboard. It is not ideal.

Pharmacy is same... tons working for low pay corporate retail. The few competitive residencies lead to hospital pharm jobs that pay a bit more but are still not amazing for the time invested. Others who finish school and go the entrepreneur route out of desire or necessity are basically making more $ on selling candy bars and massage guns and OTC stuff in their store than they actually do on real Rx meds. It is dog eat dog in most metros.

You simply do NOT see this for plastics, derm, rheum, ortho, etc... they have quality training programs, finite number of them, virtually all grads are doing well with all the patients they can handle. It comes down to quality of training and supply/demand for the skill. So, would you rather be a chiro or a rheum? Ortho or PharmD? There you go....

And then, you understand the problem in podiatry. For every DPM doing strong work at a hospital or ortho setup with high level dx and surgery and communication+cooperation with MDs, you have at least a handful of DPMs trying to and bill for nail debride, nail biopsy, nail avulsion, tendonotomy on each nursing home pt or trying to sell orthotics, night splint, pain cream and nerve vitamin to each office patient because their residency did not prepare them to be competitive or competent for other career avenues. So, again, some students from any school who study hard, match well, work hard will do well.... new pod school, old pod school, regardless. The problem was, and is, the residency quality and the availability... as soon as it starts to get close to fixed, then *poof* new school and need more spots.
 
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Nobody is saying that good DPM training isn't out there... that high level DPMs aren't out there... that it can't be a good job. We all know that it can... for the top 25-50% of the class or those who get "lucky."

Dilution cheapens any profession, though. It makes is so that there is not enough quality training... not enough quality finished product individuals. We are judged by our lowest common denominator.

If you see most chiros, they are peddling vitamins, various cash services, insoles, etc... since they are highly saturated in most areas. Hospital jobs are basically nonexistent. Most insurances cover their services minimally. The chiros who really studied and might be high level are unfortunately lumped in with the ones peddling elderberries on Youtube or trying to pretend they do "spinal procedures" on a billboard. It is not ideal.

Pharmacy is same... tons working for low pay corporate retail. The few competitive residencies lead to hospital pharm jobs that pay a bit more but are still not amazing for the time invested. Others who finish school and go the entrepreneur route out of desire or necessity are basically making more $ on selling candy bars and massage guns and OTC stuff in their store than they actually do on real Rx meds. It is dog eat dog in most metros.

You simply do NOT see this for plastics, derm, rheum, ortho, etc... they have quality training programs, finite number of them, virtually all grads are doing well with all the patients they can handle. It comes down to quality of training and supply/demand for the skill. So, would you rather be a chiro or a rheum? Ortho or PharmD? There you go....

And then, you understand the problem in podiatry. For every DPM doing strong work at a hospital or ortho setup with high level dx and surgery and communication+cooperation with MDs, you have at least a handful of DPMs trying to and bill for nail debride, nail biopsy, nail avulsion, tendonotomy on each nursing home pt or trying to sell orthotics, night splint, pain cream and nerve vitamin to each office patient because their residency did not prepare them to be competitive or competent for other career avenues. So, again, some students from any school who study hard, match well, work hard will do well.... new pod school, old pod school, regardless. The problem was, and is, the residency quality and the availability... as soon as it starts to get close to fixed, then *poof* new school and need more spots.
our training needs to be closely audited period. a lot of these ****ty programs need to be cut. we need more than just meeting "minimum MAVs" for a program to be acceptable.
 
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our training needs to be closely audited period. a lot of these ****ty programs need to be cut. we need more than just meeting "minimum MAVs" for a program to be acceptable.
Turn them into chiropodist programs!

2gax77.jpg
 
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To any future students: please do not make life-altering decisions based on SDN. Go out in the real world, shadow, and decide from these experiences. To put things into perspective, there are about 18K practicing DPMs in the US. The residents and the physicians of this forum help by sharing their experiences of the real world, which some of you may not understand. Don't be discouraged; instead, read, learn and find the answers yourself. But don't make decisions based on others' experiences (good or bad).

Let's get back to the Tx school.
"do your own research".....where have I heard this before? sQn....
 
they are paying him a TON of money I promise.
Ppl are racist and think Asians are automatically super smart... esp if they have glasses. Other ethnicities don't have a chance. I'm sick of it :p

I'm sure he will be a help and is a rock star doc, but I doubt he actually does much at the new school... the guy wears about 500 hats with ACFAS, travel, industry consult/speaker, etc. I would imagine he even has a part time clinical practice and sees a few pts or does the occasional surgery somewhere too.
 
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What are our chances of convincing President Joe Brandon of putting podiatry schools on that list of scam schools that are getting loan forgiveness? I saw Ross University of Medicine was on that list.
 
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What are our chances of convincing President Joe Brandon of putting podiatry schools on that list of scam schools that are getting loan forgiveness? I saw Ross University of Medicine was on that list.
This would be amazing... let's start a petition to add podiatry schools on there.
 
This would be amazing... let's start a petition to add podiatry schools on there.

Better chance to dismiss loans by claiming some mental disability caused by being an associate for a mustache podiatrist
 
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What are our chances of convincing President Joe Brandon of putting podiatry schools on that list of scam schools that are getting loan forgiveness? I saw Ross University of Medicine was on that list.
Think Ross for veterinary only
 
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Ppl are racist and think Asians are automatically super smart... esp if they have glasses. Other ethnicities don't have a chance. I'm sick of it :p

I'm sure he will be a help and is a rock star doc, but I doubt he actually does much at the new school... the guy wears about 500 hats with ACFAS, travel, industry consult/speaker, etc. I would imagine he even has a part time clinical practice and sees a few pts or does the occasional surgery somewhere too.

Obviously you don’t know him personally. He does a ton of surgeries especially TARs.
 
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He’s most definitely going. They listed a vacancy for central Texas va not too long ago.
 
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Obviously you don’t know him personally. He does a ton of surgeries especially TARs.
Of course I don't know him personally. I have never practiced with/near him.
I know who the guys is... trying to be the new Schuberth or Malay - JFAS editor and PI training (Dr Yu right before he died) and complex recons. It's very good; we need ppl like that. He would be an asset to any school, when he is actually there. I am sure he'll do well with the journal also.

I was saying he takes on a ton of various appointments... flying to many meetings, JFAS editor, a lot of industry consultant $tuff, clinical/surg practice in there somewhere, etc. I doubt he will be at the new pod school daily or teaching student clinic or even teaching a course or two (maybe a "team taught" where he does a few lectures?). Any amount of involvement for him at UTRGV pod is a boon regardless, but it'd be absolutely impossible for him to be core faculty - clinical or lecture - with his current/recent schedule. We had a few DPMs like that when I was in school who were adjunct for lectures and 3rd year office rotations for some students, and it was still good to have their infrequent lectures.

...Doing a ton of TARs is not something I'd brag on, though. It sure doesn't give ppl instant cred. When I was in school, the people who did ring ex fix were the "bigtime" surgeons, lol. A lot of people just want to do the newest stuff, and a lot get paid huge to try the new. I'm aware it's a minority opinion, but given time, I think TAR will eventually be similar to some guy bragging "I did a ton of silastics" after 1970s and 80s or "I put in hundreds and hundreds of BioPro hemis" after 1990s. And, of course, "I did dozens of Ilizarov and Taylor frames and a hundred ex-fix Lapidus" in the early 2000s. Where arrrrre they now? Those things all still exist, but reimbursements dropped and suddenly, results were pretty haywire, and the indications are now basically paper thin on them.

Check back in 10-20yrs on TARs... they are likely going down that well-traveled surgical road of money eventually drying up and longer and longer term inferior results becoming too obvious to ignore. Most of the ~10yr long term TAR studies are by the inventors or guys paid big to try them... good surgeons - but self-reporting on outcomes they have bias or cash to report well. Ankle is an essential joint, and people will absolutely keep trying. Ankle fusions aren't ideal, but they work very well for a long time. It is no small wonder there is a trail of skeletons of "retired" TAR models. I don't think the TARs will ever be 100% in the garbage heap of opening base wedge, cartiva, Lapidus mini IM nail, etc... but I think the TAR use will peak soon and then dip steadily just like arthroeresis, EPF, PRP, etc did (a decline often tied even more to CPT reimburse getting clipped hard than procedure results... leave it to podiatry to push buttons until they break).

The outcomes on TARs for long term implant survivorship, re-op, amp, etc are *at best* similar to fusions - even with fusions done in much tougher patients (neuropath, obese, bad trauma, varus/valgus, etc), and the AOFAS scores comparisons TAR vs AA are artificial since AA fusion has a significantly lower possible top score. The only EBM excuse the big TAR docs have (besides their whopper consultant checks) is that "well those were the old models, these new TARs will be even better." Hint: the "new" models are based off old "retired" ones, and new ones have almost no f/u yet... and that old vs new talking point will eventually start to expire, although it can still kick the can down the road for now.

There are already a great many highly skilled F&A surgeons who never did TARs or who have largely or completely abandoned doing them... prominent F&A orthos, ACFAS presidents, etc. Personally, in practice, I'm happy to send any reasonable TAR candidate (align, stability, BMI, bone stock) for a TAR consult with some of the best surgeons I know who do believe in fiddling around with TARs. I would consider sending to Shibuya if he were in my area, but there are a couple guys probably even better within a days drive for any pts I meet who may seek TAR.

I do caution those potential pts of the published TAR re-op rates in what are often not even truly long term studies yet... most patients plan to live much longer than 10-20 more years. I am not sure a long term destiny of TAR, then revision, then STJ fusion, then revision, then complicated graft ankle fusion potentially at elderly age, possible amp is considered awesome. It is hard enough to find a truly good and exp TAR surgeon, and when their good result still needs revision down the line, the pt gets to try to find another highly capable surgeon who does good volume. Joy. It is pretty comparatively easy to find a surgeon to do ankle fusion HWR or an STJ inject once in awhile if that becomes needed. The pts can - and will - make up their own mind (their body, their responsibility), but a good amount of patients will do whatever the doc sells them on. That can be good or very bad.

Can vs should. :)
 
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Of course I don't know him personally. I have never practiced with/near him.
I know who the guys is... trying to be the new Schuberth or Malay - JFAS editor and PI training (Dr Yu right before he died) and complex recons. It's very good; we need ppl like that. He would be an asset to any school, when he is actually there. I am sure he'll do well with the journal also.

I was saying he takes on a ton of various appointments... flying to many meetings, JFAS editor, a lot of industry consultant $tuff, clinical/surg practice in there somewhere, etc. I doubt he will be at the new pod school daily or teaching student clinic or even teaching a course or two (maybe a "team taught" where he does a few lectures?). Any amount of involvement for him at UTRGV pod is a boon regardless, but it'd be absolutely impossible for him to be core faculty - clinical or lecture - with his current/recent schedule. We had a few DPMs like that when I was in school who were adjunct for lectures and 3rd year office rotations for some students, and it was still good to have their infrequent lectures.

...Doing a ton of TARs is not something I'd brag on, though. It sure doesn't give ppl instant cred. When I was in school, the people who did ring ex fix were the "bigtime" surgeons, lol. A lot of people just want to do the newest stuff, and a lot get paid huge to try the new. I'm aware it's a minority opinion, but given time, I think TAR will eventually be similar to some guy bragging "I did a ton of silastics" after 1970s and 80s or "I put in hundreds and hundreds of BioPro hemis" after 1990s. And, of course, "I did dozens of Ilizarov and Taylor frames and a hundred ex-fix Lapidus" in the early 2000s. Where arrrrre they now? Those things all still exist, but reimbursements dropped and suddenly, results were pretty haywire, and the indications are now basically paper thin on them.

Check back in 10-20yrs on TARs... they are likely going down that well-traveled surgical road of money eventually drying up and longer and longer term inferior results becoming too obvious to ignore. Most of the ~10yr long term TAR studies are by the inventors or guys paid big to try them... good surgeons - but self-reporting on outcomes they have bias or cash to report well. Ankle is an essential joint, and people will absolutely keep trying. Ankle fusions aren't ideal, but they work very well for a long time. It is no small wonder there is a trail of skeletons of "retired" TAR models. I don't think the TARs will ever be 100% in the garbage heap of opening base wedge, cartiva, Lapidus mini IM nail, etc... but I think the TAR use will peak soon and then dip steadily just like arthroeresis, EPF, PRP, etc did (a decline often tied even more to CPT reimburse getting clipped hard than procedure results... leave it to podiatry to push buttons until they break).

The outcomes on TARs for long term implant survivorship, re-op, amp, etc are *at best* similar to fusions - even with fusions done in much tougher patients (neuropath, obese, bad trauma, varus/valgus, etc), and the AOFAS scores comparisons TAR vs AA are artificial since AA fusion has a significantly lower possible top score. The only EBM excuse the big TAR docs have (besides their whopper consultant checks) is that "well those were the old models, these new TARs will be even better." Hint: the "new" models are based off old "retired" ones, and new ones have almost no f/u yet... and that old vs new talking point will eventually start to expire, although it can still kick the can down the road for now.

There are already a great many highly skilled F&A surgeons who never did TARs or who have largely or completely abandoned doing them... prominent F&A orthos, ACFAS presidents, etc. Personally, in practice, I'm happy to send any reasonable TAR candidate (align, stability, BMI, bone stock) for a TAR consult with some of the best surgeons I know who do believe in fiddling around with TARs. I would consider sending to Shibuya if he were in my area, but there are a couple guys probably even better within a days drive for any pts I meet who may seek TAR.

I do caution those potential pts of the published TAR re-op rates in what are often not even truly long term studies yet... most patients plan to live much longer than 10-20 more years. I am not sure a long term destiny of TAR, then revision, then STJ fusion, then revision, then complicated graft ankle fusion potentially at elderly age, possible amp is considered awesome. It is hard enough to find a truly good and exp TAR surgeon, and when their good result still needs revision down the line, the pt gets to try to find another highly capable surgeon who does good volume. Joy. It is pretty comparatively easy to find a surgeon to do ankle fusion HWR or an STJ inject once in awhile if that becomes needed. The pts can - and will - make up their own mind (their body, their responsibility), but a good amount of patients will do whatever the doc sells them on. That can be good or very bad.

Can vs should. :)

I have to be honest with you. I don’t read 80% of the stuff you post. I am sure it’s good info though.
 
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Imagine 7 years and 200k in debt only to walk out with a 120k job and you have to bend over backwards to get any level of respect in medical community. Why would we put more people through this? I know people with 100k salary out of undergrad these days. Atleast when an MD gets abused they get 180k full benefits 7 on 7 off. When pods get abused we’re running nursing homes breaking our backs and still getting 30% with a 100k base 50+hrs a week no benefits. No wonder most pods keep to them selves about “salary”. Most are probably embarrassed.

For reference ortho matched 750 residents this year. For ALL of ortho. But somehow we need 600 foot ankle docs every year? Gtfo
I dont know many MD/DO hospitalists who will work for < 250k these days.

I am getting locum calls/emails everyday (yes it's everyday) offering 2k+/day. Not working for < 2.4k/day outside of my primary gig.
 
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I dont know many MD/DO hospitalists who will work for < 250k these days.

I am getting locum calls/emails everyday (yes it's everyday) offering 2k+/day. Not working for < 2.4k/day outside of my primary gig.
Podiatry really has no comparison in pay to other MD/DO specialties. I will be frank (you can disagree and please share your thoughts) but I personally feel a well trained surgical podiatrist functioning in a hospital system and who is performing ALL of the conservative and surgical treatments possible should command similar salaries to MD/DO specialties.

When you think about it. A podiatrist's overall revenue potential can be pretty substantial for a hospital.

- high volume of outpatient procedures (toenails, injections, etc)
- outpatient advanced imaging orders
- outpatient physical therapy referrals
- outpatient prosthetist referrals
- outpatient referrals to other specialties (medicine, endo, vascular, neurology)
- outpatient DME orders
- outpatient elective foot and ankle reconstructive procedures
- fracture management of foot and ankle fractures
- high volume of inpatient infection case (amps, limb salvage procedures which require no expensive hardware)
- high volume of outpatient wound debridement CPT codes

That's a ton of revenue generated by this specialty. Also the hospital collects facility fees whenever they can for any of these orders/referrals/surgeries.

In the end hospitals absolutely crush it when they have podiatrists on staff.

I really don't think it is unreasonable that podiatrists SHOULD be paid much more than they are now. The only reason we are not is because there is not enough demand for our services. All the hospital gigs are filled immediately and these hospitals are getting 300-500 applications from new resident grads, people trying to get out private practice, etc at a time. There is no incentive for them to pay fair market value. Where in other MD/DO specialties this is not the case.

Would love to hear your thoughts being you are an MD/DO.
 
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Podiatry really has no comparison in pay to other MD/DO specialties. I will be frank (you can disagree and please share your thoughts) but I personally feel a well trained surgical podiatrist functioning in a hospital system and who is performing ALL of the conservative and surgical treatments possible should command similar salaries to MD/DO specialties.

When you think about it. A podiatrist's overall revenue potential can be pretty substantial for a hospital.

- high volume of outpatient procedures (toenails, injections, etc)
- outpatient advanced imaging orders
- outpatient physical therapy referrals
- outpatient prosthetist referrals
- outpatient referrals to other specialties (medicine, endo, vascular, neurology)
- outpatient DME orders
- outpatient elective foot and ankle reconstructive procedures
- fracture management of foot and ankle fractures
- high volume of inpatient infection case (amps, limb salvage procedures which require no expensive hardware)
- high volume of outpatient wound debridement CPT codes

That's a ton of revenue generated by this specialty. Also the hospital collects facility fees whenever they can for any of these orders/referrals/surgeries.

In the end hospitals absolutely crush it when they have podiatrists on staff.

I really don't think it is unreasonable that podiatrists SHOULD be paid much more than they are now. The only reason we are not is because there is not enough demand for our services. All the hospital gigs are filled immediately and these hospitals are getting 300-500 applications from new resident grads, people trying to get out private practice, etc at a time. There is no incentive for them to pay fair market value. Where in other MD/DO specialties this is not the case.

Would love to hear your thoughts being you are an MD/DO.
I agree. I commented previously in another thread here about podiatry salary and was surprised that some of you accept 100k salary. I really don't think any podiatrist should work for < 200k/yr. At least your salary should be on par with FM/IM hospitalist (~285k median).

I always consult pods for anything foot/ankle related instead of orthopods or general surgeons.
 
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I agree. I commented previously in another thread here about podiatry salary and was surprised that some of you accept 100k salary. I really don't think any podiatrist should work for < 200k/yr. At least your salary should be on par with FM/IM hospitalist (~285k median).

I always consult pods for anything foot/ankle related instead of orthopods or general surgeons.
Sir, may I use you as a reference Sir.
 
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honestly those of us that are well surgically trained should be making $400k+ and closer to ortho salary than FM/IM. but let's start with getting on par with IM.
 
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honestly those of us that are well surgically trained should be making $400k+ and closer to ortho salary than FM/IM.

We don’t generate the OR $ that ortho does, so being far away from $700k isn’t shocking. But I don’t see a reason why I should have a significantly lower $/wRVU compensation rate than Urology, for example. Median compensation for employed podiatrists should be between $400-500k. Closer to Urology, lower than Gen Surg and Ortho. Hell, salary surveys have categories for non surgical orthopedics and they are usually just shy of $400k.
 
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We don’t generate the OR $ that ortho does, so being far away from $700k isn’t shocking. But I don’t see a reason why I should have a significantly lower $/wRVU compensation rate than Urology, for example. Median compensation for employed podiatrists should be between $400-500k. Closer to Urology, lower than Gen Surg and Ortho. Hell, salary surveys have categories for non surgical orthopedics and they are usually just shy of $400k.
I am continually amazed at job boards and other legit sites that don't have podiatry as even an option. Like 10 kinda of pediatricians and podiatry or DPM isn't a thing.
 
honestly those of us that are well surgically trained should be making $400k+ and closer to ortho salary than FM/IM. but let's start with getting on par with IM.
Do you think you are worth 400k?
 
I am continually amazed at job boards and other legit sites that don't have podiatry as even an option. Like 10 kinda of pediatricians and podiatry or DPM isn't a thing.

The last MGMA data I saw had data for around 32 different Pediatric specialties.

This site aggregates pay data for medical/surgical specialties. Seems to have reasonable numbers considering how wide pay can vary from one facility to another or one region to another. But no Podiatry.
OfferDx

As for job boards, if there were hundreds of big group, MSG, hospital employed positions all over the country, then they would list them. Regardless of specialty. Which means the supply isn’t there for any of these companies to even bother with listing DPM jobs. Or the demand is so high that these employers don’t need to “recruit.” When you’ve already had 20 different podiatrist cold call you over the past year or so, I guess you can just post something on your own website and don’t have to engage in some national search like you would for an Orthopedic, or OB, or FP, or Hospitalist…
 
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Let’s not continue to scare away these hopeful pod students…..
 
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What a podiatrist should make with 4 years of professional school and 3 years of residency and what they will make starting guaranteed are not the same thing.

Being well trained and avoiding areas of saturation help, but there are not enough 200K plus employed jobs for all, not even close. So there will be many taking jobs with compensation well below this for the foreseeable future. There are more good employed jobs than in the past, but not nearly enough.

So jobs will be taken making much less than this, lot of those jobs are a dead end job. Regardless of if the employer is a greedy doctor or one well intentioned that under estimated demand most will leave and the end result is the same.....many will leave after a few years and will start their own practice and some will find a better employed position.

The "hustle" required to find a good employed job or start one's own office far exceeds that of most healthcare professions that involve 7 years after college. Somehow despite all this, more than you would expect meet or exceed the "average" salary........eventually at least.
 
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Do you think you are worth 400k?
Yup. Critical access hospital doing everything that walks through the door and other than ankle fractures (Ortho does) all that gets shipped out. I am worth 400k. Will know in a few weeks if someone else thinks that...
 
Yup. Critical access hospital doing everything that walks through the door and other than ankle fractures (Ortho does) all that gets shipped out. I am worth 400k. Will know in a few weeks if someone else thinks that...

No one is paying you 400k base salary. Stop playing
 
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No one is paying you 400k base salary. Stop playing
Ain’t nobody dumb enough to hire a podiatrist for 400k base. You might as well hire a foot and ankle orthopedic who’s able to share ortho calls.
 
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Do you think you are worth 400k?
there's two parts to this. at my current job, no. but I am close.

the amount of time and effort I've put into this career.... absolutely. but I live in the real world.
 
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Ain’t nobody dumb enough to hire a podiatrist for 400k base. You might as well hire a foot and ankle orthopedic who’s able to share ortho calls.
True, but there are some large orthopaedic groups where podiatrists are full partners and making more than some, but definitely not most orthopaedic surgeons. This is definitely not the norm, but possible. No base, huge overhead, large checks from ownership stake in the group's investments and a definite eat what you kill arrangement with lots of pressure to produce and lots of rewards for that production.
 
No way family medicine doctors create more revenue for a hospital than podiatry. NO WAY.

They generate a ton of downstream revenue by nature of being the gatekeeper for the entire system. They are getting credit for the obvious (clinic production, labs, pharmacy, imaging) but also for the revenue generated from the referrals they make. I’m sure every system tracks that differently but PCPs get credited for $2-3 million in revenue for a hospital system or large MSG in virtually every report you see.

I don’t think that screenshot means they bring in more than podiatrists, it just means the author didn’t even count podiatrists as a medical speciality for the purposes of that email/report. There are more than enough employed podiatrists to come up with a number and most of them generate some number between that reported family medicine number and the ortho number. But it’s still probably closer to the family medicine number. L&D generates all kinds of money for the hospital and OB is still below Family Med at $2 million.
 
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No way family medicine doctors create more revenue for a hospital than podiatry. NO WAY.
You do realize that besides surgery (which Ortho already covers from head to toe), A Family Medicine doctor can do everything a podiatry does and even more like you mentioned in your above post "outpatient advanced imaging orders, outpatient physical therapy referrals, outpatient prosthetist referrals, outpatient referrals to other specialties, outpatient DME orders and Family medicine docs also cover wound care clinics". A family doctor can do way more than the list you mentioned since they can treat the entire body therefore they are 100X more valuable than a pod in a hospital system. I am strictly speaking here of hospital finances/rvu and not saying what we do is not important.


So @CutsWithFury tell us how a podiatrist is more valuable than a family doc in a hospital system? Ortho, vascular and general surgery can already cover all the procedures/surgery that a pod can do. In rural areas, Family Med docs are also cutting out ingrown toenails, cutting out plantar warts, treating heel pain, ankle pain, etc but a lot of them have their plates full and are generous to send these referrals to us so don't for once take referrals for granted.

It's a different argument to say we do it better or are more proficient in it because Ortho, vascular and general surgery are not interested in feet stuff which I agree. We all get referral from other surgical specialty for foot and ankle related pathologies because it is out field of expertise.
 
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You do realize that besides surgery (which Ortho already covers from head to toe), A Family Medicine doctor can do everything a podiatry does and even more like you mentioned in your above post "outpatient advanced imaging orders, outpatient physical therapy referrals, outpatient prosthetist referrals, outpatient referrals to other specialties, outpatient DME orders and Family medicine docs also cover wound care clinics". A family doctor can do way more than the list you mentioned since they can treat the entire body therefore they are 100X more valuable than a pod in a hospital system. I am strictly speaking here of hospital finances/rvu and not saying what we do is not important.


So @CutsWithFury tell us how a podiatrist is more valuable than a family doc in a hospital system? Ortho, vascular and general surgery can already cover all the procedures/surgery that a pod can do. In rural areas, Family Med docs are also cutting out ingrown toenails, cutting out plantar warts, treating heel pain, ankle pain, etc but a lot of them have their plates full and are generous to send these referrals to us so don't for once take referrals for granted.

It's a different argument to say we do it better or are more proficient in it because Ortho, vascular and general surgery are not interested in feet stuff which I agree. We all get referral from other surgical specialty for foot and ankle related pathologies because it is out field of expertise.

Yeah sorry family med generates high level e/m encounters. Family medicine doesn’t generate a ton of CPT codes. Outlier PCPs will treat warts with cryotherapy. Many attempt at ingrown toenails but they suck at them.

Every PCP I’ve worked with is terrible at diagnosing lower extremity pathology and treating it. That’s why they refer out. Don’t tell me PCPs have any idea what they are doing when dealing with MSK pathology.

Don’t tell me PCPs rack up more CPT codes than podiatry because they don’t. Yes they are the gate keeper. Their bread and butter is high level e/m encounters due to significantly more challenging MDM and referrals to specialists.

Some order advanced imaging but they usually make standard mistakes like ordering a foot MRI without contrast when they are concerned about a neuroma. I prefer my PCPs to do as little as possible to not screw up my work up.
 
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They generate a ton of downstream revenue by nature of being the gatekeeper for the entire system. They are getting credit for the obvious (clinic production, labs, pharmacy, imaging) but also for the revenue generated from the referrals they make. I’m sure every system tracks that differently but PCPs get credited for $2-3 million in revenue for a hospital system or large MSG in virtually every report you see...
Yep.
Admits... and the testing, Rx, other consultants, etc that comes with it. If that admit revenue is even 5% counted for them when they directly admit or refer for an admit, then many PCPs rock it.

I probably admit one or two pts per year (usually not even me technically admitting doc on them). Most busy PCPs do a couple per week or sometimes even daily.
 
From reading this thread, it seems like there is some issues making a nice living in pod w/o a lot of hassle (emphasis on "a lot").

Why are so many attracted to pod? Is it because you are a surgeon from the get go? I remember looking at pod stats when I applied to med school in 2013 (matriculated in 2014), pod stats (3.3c/3.2s and 22 MCAT) weren't that far apart from bottom tier DO schools (3.5/3.3 and 25 MCAT). I guess 30-40% of matriculants of pod school could have gotten into DO school if they were willing to retake the MCAT and spend an extra year to increase their GPAs...

Maybe I am not gung ho about any particular field in medicine to the point I am willing to look pass 300k student debt without the ability to make a good living without any big hassle.

For context, I was supposed to start pharmacy school in 2013 and once I saw pharmacists in SDN telling people not to do it. I dropped everything and studied hard for the MCAT... The rest is history. I am a board certified IM doc now.
 
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