University of Michigan Class of 2009

[b&ierstiefel]

thanks for all the great info.
on a related (less important, obviously) note, i got a "happy holidays" card from UMich today; but, i don't think i'm getting a fleece (as footcramp mentioned, only some people do)
needless to say, i think that's kinda sad that UMich is already differentiating between aplicants at this point (i mean, i know the money they give out will do the same), but geez...
in other news, i don't know how to evaluate match lists, but UMich's looked pretty good when i looked at it. i guess that also having 170-180 other students to compete with for the same spots makes it tougher than if you were at, say, a school with 100 or 120.

Regarding the fleece, it is correct that only some folks get one. My source of info on the admissions committee told me that fleeces mainly get shipped to the individuals who Michigan really want but are likely to go somewhere better. Remember, schools DO talk to each other. The big schools tend to know when and where students have been accepted. You do remember the interviewers here asking questions regarding where ELSE you interviewed, right?

If you play the game right, you might get a fleece. All you gotta do is say something like, "It's really close between Michigan and Good School X".

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[ellia08]

It seems to me that the match list is actually quite good. as is previous years.

As far a umich support... well bearing in mind that until next year I am only an undergrad (and thus know absolutely nothing)... perhaps this is similar to their undergraduate philosophy?

Michigan is willing to take a huge class and some people will be stereotypically good and some will be a risk on their part. Then they throw everyone into incredibly difficult classes and see who survives--sometimes its the well prepared ones and sometimes it isnt. It really all depends on how hard you're willing to work and how much crap you can handle. Personally I have found this to be a good thing (I cant believe how far I have come in 4 years) but hey there are always people who dont do as well as they like... just as there are people who suceed well beyond their expectations. Michigan will do everything they can to teach you but they wont just pat your head and push you through. (It sucks to be an obsessive pre-med and get no guarantee doesnt it?)

I really like this policy but I suppose that is just my personal style and , hey, in the end I'm just an undergrad so what do I know.

PS- Fleeces rock!

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Matching in the South after completing med school in Michigan was mentioned above. Judging from perusing the match lists from the last 4 years, I would tend to favor the notion that it is not hard to match in the South from Michigan. Not as many people do it because most folks would rank residency programs in Michigan and Midwest pretty high (and generally, over 85-90% of graduating seniors get one of their top 3 programs on their rank order lists). It IS harder to match on the coasts however. Year after year, I see quite a lacking when it comes down to Michigan students matching at the Harvard hospitals, Hopkins, UPenn, UCSF, Stanford, UCLA, UWash, etc. Again, this may not be a huge point at Michigan for the reasons mentioned above. The only way to truly test the validity of this is to look at the rank lists of those who matched at Michigan/Midwest and see if these coastal programs were ranked higher. Personally, I don't hear of too many stories like this however.

Regardless, if you're keen on going to an Ivy league program or California and even though you trained at a strong institution like Michigan for medical school, you will have a tough time. By no means does coming to Michigan make you a shoe-in to residency programs at these institutions. However, if you end up going to Harvard or Hopkins for med school, you can literally go anywhere! So if you get into one of those two schools, you may have the most number of options if you go there instead of here.

 

[stanford05]

thanks for all the info guys, this thread's been really informative.

do you current students know much about the merit scholarships (i.e. timeline and how many they give)? I was accepted (and wore the fleece yesterday, haha), but am unlikely to come if I have to pay tuition. I know the director of admissions mr. ruiz keeps some kids back at the end of each interview day and talks about how mich really wants them. i'm wondering if these are the only people being considered for the scholarships. unfortunately, i didn't get held back and i'm wondering if this means i don't have much of a chance.

 

[Bones2008]

thanks for all the info guys, this thread's been really informative.

do you current students know much about the merit scholarships (i.e. timeline and how many they give)? I was accepted (and wore the fleece yesterday, haha), but am unlikely to come if I have to pay tuition. I know the director of admissions mr. ruiz keeps some kids back at the end of each interview day and talks about how mich really wants them. i'm wondering if these are the only people being considered for the scholarships. unfortunately, i didn't get held back and i'm wondering if this means i don't have much of a chance.

I would email/call the admissions office and tactfully explain your situation. it should increase the likelihood of you receiving a good financial aid package. just be straightforward about it and see what happens. they certainly won't rescind your acceptance or give you less money because you asked.

 

[bidster]

Regarding the fleece, it is correct that only some folks get one. My source of info on the admissions committee told me that fleeces mainly get shipped to the individuals who Michigan really want but are likely to go somewhere better. Remember, schools DO talk to each other. The big schools tend to know when and where students have been accepted. You do remember the interviewers here asking questions regarding where ELSE you interviewed, right?

If you play the game right, you might get a fleece. All you gotta do is say something like, "It's really close between Michigan and Good School X".

Haha...I was definitely asked "where else have you interviewed" by one of my Mich interviewers, but being out of state and knowing how selective they are, I didn't think I was in a position to play hardball by saying "it's you or School X!" Although I have to wait till spring to make a final decision, I was thrilled to get a response this weekend and really loved UMich despite how cold it was when I went

 

[leechy]

Regarding the fleece, it is correct that only some folks get one. My source of info on the admissions committee told me that fleeces mainly get shipped to the individuals who Michigan really want but are likely to go somewhere better. Remember, schools DO talk to each other. The big schools tend to know when and where students have been accepted. You do remember the interviewers here asking questions regarding where ELSE you interviewed, right?

The schools talk to each other? I thought it was unlikely for them to share information amongst themselves before April 15th or whatever that day was; otherwise why would they need to ask us about it directly in the interview? Plus, most of the other top schools don't hand out decisions before March. Maybe they just look at the strength of your application and the geographic location you're from and make a guess as to your likelihood of attending.

 

[leechy]

thanks for all the info guys, this thread's been really informative.

do you current students know much about the merit scholarships (i.e. timeline and how many they give)? I was accepted (and wore the fleece yesterday, haha), but am unlikely to come if I have to pay tuition. I know the director of admissions mr. ruiz keeps some kids back at the end of each interview day and talks about how mich really wants them. i'm wondering if these are the only people being considered for the scholarships. unfortunately, i didn't get held back and i'm wondering if this means i don't have much of a chance.

I heard the scholarships are given in March, and I'm guessing there are about a dozen of them, based on other schools that also give out scholarships. My decision is also going to be based largely on money, but I feel awkward telling any adcoms about this just yet... I don't want to annoy them by making them feel they have to bribe me.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

The schools talk to each other? I thought it was unlikely for them to share information amongst themselves before April 15th or whatever that day was; otherwise why would they need to ask us about it directly in the interview? Plus, most of the other top schools don't hand out decisions before March. Maybe they just look at the strength of your application and the geographic location you're from and make a guess as to your likelihood of attending.

Rules are meant to be broken. In fact, they are broken in a tactful manner that is not outright egregious. For instance, Michigan talks to Michigan State and Wayne State all the time when it comes down to in-state applicants to see if those other institutions have already accepted them. Harvard and Hopkins admissions committees also engage in active communication. Do you know of too many people who have actually been accepted to both Harvard and Hopkins? I went to Hopkins undergrad and the word on the street was that if a person was accepted to Hopkins, Hopkins would communicate this discretely to Harvard. Probably the vice versa situation also applies.

And just because schools don't hand out official acceptances until a certain date doesn't necessarily mean that they are not targeting certain applicants. The super-qualified applicants will be highly sought after by multiple top-tier medical schools. And if rules can be broken to grab these candidates, I'm sure the school will find loopholes to take advantage of this.

 

[bidster]

Rules are meant to be broken. In fact, they are broken in a tactful manner that is not outright egregious. For instance, Michigan talks to Michigan State and Wayne State all the time when it comes down to in-state applicants to see if those other institutions have already accepted them. Harvard and Hopkins admissions committees also engage in active communication. Do you know of too many people who have actually been accepted to both Harvard and Hopkins? I went to Hopkins undergrad and the word on the street was that if a person was accepted to Hopkins, Hopkins would communicate this discretely to Harvard. Probably the vice versa situation also applies.

I heard somewhere--not from an official source by any means--that when you accept acceptances, it shows up in some AMCAS database that only administrators/adcom members have access to.... so besides schools gossiping amongst themselves, this would be another path I've heard of schools taking towards finding out about your "options." Any idea if this is true?

 

[leechy]

And just because schools don't hand out official acceptances until a certain date doesn't necessarily mean that they are not targeting certain applicants. The super-qualified applicants will be highly sought after by multiple top-tier medical schools. And if rules can be broken to grab these candidates, I'm sure the school will find loopholes to take advantage of this.

Interesting. so it seems informal information-sharing does occur between schools. Thanks for the clarification, Andy, and more generally, for all of your extremely helpful posts on this thread. I really appreciate it, and I'm sure the others do too. Lots of food for thought.

 

[jhugti]

It IS harder to match on the coasts however. Year after year, I see quite a lacking when it comes down to Michigan students matching at the Harvard hospitals, Hopkins, UPenn, UCSF, Stanford, UCLA, UWash, etc. Again, this may not be a huge point at Michigan for the reasons mentioned above. The only way to truly test the validity of this is to look at the rank lists of those who matched at Michigan/Midwest and see if these coastal programs were ranked higher. Personally, I don't hear of too many stories like this however.

Regardless, if you're keen on going to an Ivy league program or California and even though you trained at a strong institution like Michigan for medical school, you will have a tough time. By no means does coming to Michigan make you a shoe-in to residency programs at these institutions. However, if you end up going to Harvard or Hopkins for med school, you can literally go anywhere! So if you get into one of those two schools, you may have the most number of options if you go there instead of here.

Aghh
Im essentially debating between Michigan and Hopkins... though I'm a midwesterner I'm not positive I want to stay in the midwest forever.

Michigan students (and others with relevant opinions): Does this mean I should turn away from UMich? What if money is involved? I have a hard time convincing myself Hopkins is $100,000+ better than Michigan, but at the same time don't want to limit my future options.....
all opinions welcome

 

[elias514]

A few comments from an M1 at Michigan:

FIRST, self-entitlement by virtue of institutional affiliation drives me f*cking nuts. Prestige does not compensate for academic mediocrity. Period. The only way you're going to land a spot at a top residency program is by working your ass off and making the right connections. Institutional prestige doesn't mean **** when compared to the individual applicant's performance on the wards, standardized test scores, and faculty members' opinions of the applicant. When students at Michigan complain about how interviewers weren't "blown away" by the Michigan name, it bothers me; medical school isn't like undergrad. There are only 125 allopathic med schools in the country and 90% of them offer an outstanding education, partly because medicine deals with life and death issues and the public has precious little tolerance for incompetence (hence the medical malpractice crisis), and partly due to the fact that it's damn hard to get into medical school.

As future doctors, we should forget about prestige and focus on becoming the best physicians we possibly can--we have an ethical and moral obligation to our future patients to reach our full potential. I've said this many times and I'll say it again because I heartedly believe it: even great medical schools graduate mediocre doctors and "mediocre" medical schools often graduate truly outstanding physicians. What you accomplish as a medical student, as a resident, and ultimately how well you take care of your patients will depend almost entirely on your own drive, aptitude, and other personal attributes, not on some stupid institutional affiliation. When you're done with your formal education, nobody is going to force you to stay current on the literature or to go that extra mile with a patient; no patient is going to ask you where you went to medical school or served your residency for that matter; your patients and your peers will judge you based on your interpersonal skills and your performance. No colleague likes an dingus and no patient wants an incompetent dingus.

Fortunately, Michigan does a damn good job of training its students and I'm happy to be here.

SECOND, Michigan does extremely well in the Match. Many people fail to recognize that first-rate residency programs are not limited to the East and West Coast or the "name-brand" schools. How many people recognize the University of Cincinnati, Carolinas, Indiana, Michigan, Hennepin County, Cook County, and U Pitt as great places to train for emergency medicine? Or what about Vanderbilt, Pitt, Michigan, UAB Birmingham for general surgery? Lest we forget about internal medicine, I should mention that U Chicago, Wash U, and Michigan are considered to be the best medicine programs in the Midwest and certainly among the best in the country. And how many Michigan grads ended up at these programs? Or what about Wills Eye in Philadelphia, Cleveland Clinic, Baylor, and Michigan for ophthalmology? All very competitive, top tier ophthy programs (don't believe me? Check out the ophthalmology times publication). The list goes on and on. It suffices to say that Michigan grads end up in excellent residency programs throughout the country and it's not because of some stupid ranking in US News or residency director score.

THIRD, the curriculum at Michigan runs quite smoothly. It's well-balanced in terms of its emphasis on basic science and clinically relevant subject matter, and a lot of the ridiculous "rat facts" have been omitted. The administration has done an excellent job of ironing out all the kinks and other issues of the class ahead of us--i.e., the guinea pigs.

FOURTH, the anatomy, biostats, biochem, and pathology faculty at UMich rule! They truly are some of the best instructors I've ever had.

FIFTH, the embryology lecturers blow and if I get another lecture on BMP4 I'm going to shoot somebody.

SIXTH, people need to quit bitching about the inbreeding at Michigan. I mean I know I would kill myself if I had to match at Michigan for say internal medicine (top 10 program) or surgery (top 5 program). Jesus, how do those people live with themselves?

SEVENTH, Ann Arbor is a wonderful place to live. The beer is awesome, the women are beautiful, and there are tons of great places to eat.

EIGHTH, 14 degrees below zero is really fu*king cold.

NINTH, anyone who chooses to pay an additional 100 grand to attend Hopkins rather than Michigan needs a psychiatric evaluation.

TENTH, I love this place and I'm happy to be here!

P.S., Hi Bones. I hope you're enjoying your break.

 

[footcramp]

i think potential enrollees should pay special attention to some of the things that were said. this isn't about whether someone has a reason to whine or not. it's about things that current students can agree on. here's what we agree on regarding the match:

though it is top 3 in residency director ratings and ranked 7th overall, that will not help anyone in the match. andy said it will help but not very much. bones said "it doesn't mean ****", and i said michigan's reputation is only regional. so those are all things we more or less agree on.

if you are okay with that, come to michigan. it's a great school with a ton of resources and you will get a great education. i have no doubt about that at all. but if you're coming to michigan because it is top 10, or because you think its #3 residency director ranking means anything, think twice. you need to come here because of what it actually offers, not what you think it offers. and certainly not because "oh i got a fleece, they are so nice to me, awwwww."

i think all the lucky non-guinea-pig-m1s and m4s can agree with that.

 

[leechy]

Aghh
Im essentially debating between Michigan and Hopkins... though I'm a midwesterner I'm not positive I want to stay in the midwest forever.

Michigan students (and others with relevant opinions): Does this mean I should turn away from UMich? What if money is involved? I have a hard time convincing myself Hopkins is $100,000+ better than Michigan, but at the same time don't want to limit my future options.....
all opinions welcome

You don't need to decide now. See how the financial aid packages compare and then decide how you feel about it.

 

[kikkoman]

i think potential enrollees should pay special attention to some of the things that were said. this isn't about whether someone has a reason to whine or not. it's about things that current students can agree on. here's what we agree on regarding the match:

though it is top 3 in residency director ratings and ranked 7th overall, that will not help anyone in the match. andy said it will help but not very much. bones said "it doesn't mean ****", and i said michigan's reputation is only regional. so those are all things we more or less agree on.

if you are okay with that, come to michigan. it's a great school with a ton of resources and you will get a great education. i have no doubt about that at all. but if you're coming to michigan because it is top 10, or because you think its #3 residency director ranking means anything, think twice. you need to come here because of what it actually offers, not what you think it offers. and certainly not because "oh i got a fleece, they are so nice to me, awwwww."

i think all the lucky non-guinea-pig-m1s and m4s can agree with that.

Thanks for your honest input footcramp. I really appreciate students pointing out the negative parts of their schools rather than always highlighting the positives - overall it's a lot more informative when picking between "equivalent" schools.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

A few comments from an M1 at Michigan:

FIRST, self-entitlement by virtue of institutional affiliation drives me f*cking nuts. Prestige does not compensate for academic mediocrity. Period. The only way you're going to land a spot at a top residency program is by working your ass off and making the right connections. Institutional prestige doesn't mean **** when compared to the individual applicant's performance on the wards, standardized test scores, and faculty members' opinions of the applicant. When students at Michigan complain about how interviewers weren't "blown away" by the Michigan name, it bothers me; medical school isn't like undergrad.

elias514, I wholeheartedly agree with you here. If there's one thing that is rampant at Michigan that is disheartening, it is this sense of self-entitlement you speak of. Michigan is a very strong institution. Opportunities to learn some awesome material is here ONLY IF YOU are willing to take advantage of it. If someone comes to Michigan thinking, "Whew! The hard part (i.e., getting admitted to Michigan) is over. Now I can kick back and relax and let Michigan do the rest", that someone is in for a rude awakening come residency application time.

Granted, I did the MD/PhD route here and so I took advantage of much that the med school and the graduate school had to offer. My time here was very rewarding. I busted my ass, learned a lot, and the fruits of that are presenting themselves as I visit residency programs (the top tier ones too). I didn't sit back and relax and as a result, my interviewers mentioned that they were impressed with my application. Instead of focusing on something superficial like my institution, they liked seeing that I did well on step 1, got good grades, strong letters of recommendations, supportive Deans' Letter, and over 15 publications and abstracts to my credit. I don't say this to brag but this should serve to reinforce the notion that wherever you go, you should plan on working hard, develop intellectually to the fullest potential, and then and only then will good opportunities present themselves to you.

With all that said, I am not intending to downplay your acceptances to Michigan. This is a huge accomplishment. But regardless of where you end up, please do yourselves a favor and continue the work ethic that got you there. And this relates to another issue regarding where you should decide to matriculate. GO SOMEWHERE YOU WILL BE HAPPY! GO TO A PLACE WHERE YOU WILL FIT IN WELL. Your ability to thrive and flourish intellectually and as a person/future physician is very much dependent on this. If you go somewhere you're not happy with, you will be miserable, bitter, and cynical.

OK...carry on...talk amongst yourselves. Best of luck folks!

 

[acidhouse303]

andy how do you like the md /phd route? i heard from my interviewers that some people can get into the program after the first year of being in the regular MD program (ie not applying to the md/phd program initially) do u know anyone who has done this, and how thats done? im considering it but i didnt apply to the joint program at first thanks

 

[b&ierstiefel]

andy how do you like the md /phd route? i heard from my interviewers that some people can get into the program after the first year of being in the regular MD program (ie not applying to the md/phd program initially) do u know anyone who has done this, and how thats done? im considering it but i didnt apply to the joint program at first thanks

I absolutely loved the MD/PhD route. The MD part was tough to stomach at times but the PhD phase was awesome! At many places, including Michigan, students in their first year of med school can apply to the MD/PhD program. In my class, there were two people who had done so (one applied during M1 year, the other applied during M2 year). Basically, what you need to do is simple...sometime during your first semester as an M1, just go to the MD/PhD office and ask about applying. They will tell you what you need. And voila! Applying is the easy part...getting in can be a bit of a challenge.

 

[GoodMonkey]

hey guys ... congrats on your acceptances. i'm an m2 here at mich and i'm very glad i decided to come to this school. yeah, every school (EVERY SCHOOL - even usc, footcramp, if you are who i think you are) has its ups and downs and various highlights and incompentencies, and california and non-california matches (or whatever you are putting as your end-all-be-all judging point of a school) ... but the bottom line is michigan is a great school, for me at least, and i'm very happy with my decision to attend michigan. helllooooo online lecture videos, anyone?

as far as the winters - yeah they're cold. but hey, it's up north. the 45th parallel is about 2-3 hours north of ann arbor (halfway between the equator and north pole) and we get snow. slush. ice. wind. yes. you come here, you deal with it, you get on with your life.

enjoy the time before med school all you '09ers. and (shameless, self-interest advertising here) PM me if you're looking for somewhere to live that isn't in the white coat ghetto. i have a room to rent.

~ a happy '07 wolverine

 

[GoodMonkey]

A few comments from an M1 at Michigan:

FIRST, self-entitlement by virtue of institutional affiliation drives me f*cking nuts. Prestige does not compensate for academic mediocrity. Period. The only way you're going to land a spot at a top residency program is by working your ass off and making the right connections. Institutional prestige doesn't mean **** when compared to the individual applicant's performance on the wards, standardized test scores, and faculty members' opinions of the applicant. When students at Michigan complain about how interviewers weren't "blown away" by the Michigan name, it bothers me; medical school isn't like undergrad. There are only 125 allopathic med schools in the country and 90% of them offer an outstanding education, partly because medicine deals with life and death issues and the public has precious little tolerance for incompetence (hence the medical malpractice crisis), and partly due to the fact that it's damn hard to get into medical school.
...
Fortunately, Michigan does a damn good job of training its students and I'm happy to be here.

SECOND, Michigan does extremely well in the Match. Many people fail to recognize that first-rate residency programs are not limited to the East and West Coast or the "name-brand" schools. How many people recognize the University of Cincinnati, Carolinas, Indiana, Michigan, Hennepin County, Cook County, and U Pitt as great places to train for emergency medicine? Or what about Vanderbilt, Pitt, Michigan, UAB Birmingham for general surgery? Lest we forget about internal medicine, I should mention that U Chicago, Wash U, and Michigan are considered to be the best medicine programs in the Midwest and certainly among the best in the country. And how many Michigan grads ended up at these programs? Or what about Wills Eye in Philadelphia, Cleveland Clinic, Baylor, and Michigan for ophthalmology? All very competitive, top tier ophthy programs (don't believe me? Check out the ophthalmology times publication). The list goes on and on. It suffices to say that Michigan grads end up in excellent residency programs throughout the country and it's not because of some stupid ranking in US News or residency director score.

...

SIXTH, people need to quit bitching about the inbreeding at Michigan. I mean I know I would kill myself if I had to match at Michigan for say internal medicine (top 10 program) or surgery (top 5 program). Jesus, how do those people live with themselves?

SEVENTH, Ann Arbor is a wonderful place to live. The beer is awesome, the women are beautiful, and there are tons of great places to eat.

EIGHTH, 14 degrees below zero is really fu*king cold.

NINTH, anyone who chooses to pay an additional 100 grand to attend Hopkins rather than Michigan needs a psychiatric evaluation.

TENTH, I love this place and I'm happy to be here!

1. your 1st point. THANK YOU! AMEN! another HUGE pet peeve of mine. the whole entitlement **** really *really* pisses me off. i'm just grateful to be where i am. and i pay lots of money to do so. (no special scholarships or parents paying my way here.)
2. yay upitt EM. whoo hoo! (one of my hopefuls)
3. nice post. i agree wholeheartedly.

 

[SunnyS81]

1) Congrats on getting in.
2) You can do a search on my screen name to find my comments from last year.
3) I thought this year went really smooth except for the one week footcramp alluded to. We had our entire schedule for the year last spring (yes we didn't know the exact times we were done with classes, but we knew what days exams were, and you can put 2+2 together to figure out flight plans).
4) I estimate 80% of our class is from the midwest (50% instate + ton of Chicago people and other midwest areas). Consider this when looking at rank lists. I know in our class we only have 9 people from below the mason-dixie line. As for the Cali people, most came because they couldn't get into ucla or ucsf (let's face it, the instate tuition would be better, plus close to home). So assuming all things equal, the people who couldn't get into those two med schools probably shouldn't expect to match at those places unless something happens and they step up their game. I have a feeling that even the cali kids can't bring themselves to rank 2nd tier residency programs above michigan (hence the aforementioned bitter roommate). We do have kids match there, but apparently just not as many as people would like (I know we haven't matched someone in IM at stanford in over a decade for some reason).
5) Keeping in mind 50% are instate, there can't be that much incest if we have less than 30% staying here for residency (incidently, we also have something like 35/170 from UM undergrad in my class....you would think they are lifers)
6) I suggest you not tell the current M2's about the fleeces. I know we're already bitter about the m1's getting stuff we didn't.
7)If anyone is complaining about this winter so far, they are pansies. And I just experienced a 30 degree temp drop when I came back to school.
8) The school doesn't get you a residency, you do.

Enjoy.

 

[kikkoman]

8) The school doesn't get you a residency, you do.

Do you think that UMich's students are that much less able than those at UMich's peer institutions?

From a trying to be unbiased viewpoint the matchlist looks really weak, especially when you think about the quality of students that Michigan attracts. I haven't been through the process yet, but it seems that residency matching is very political. I don't mean to say that students who excel still can't do well - but all else being equal the place must put you at somewhat of a disadvantage than a more "connected" peer institution.

 

[GoodMonkey]

Do you think that UMich's students are that much less able than those at UMich's peer institutions?

From a trying to be unbiased viewpoint the matchlist looks really weak, especially when you think about the quality of students that Michigan attracts. I haven't been through the process yet, but it seems that residency matching is very political. I don't mean to say that students who excel still can't do well - but all else being equal the place must put you at somewhat of a disadvantage than a more "connected" peer institution.

aw hell then go to what you think is a more "connected" peer institution. yeesh. otherwise. EARN your desired residency spot, people, don't depend (let alone EXPECT) on any school to hand it to you on name alone. sorry, but i'm with elias. that attitude just annoys the piss out of me.
GO TO THE SCHOOL THAT IS THE BEST FIT FOR YOU not the one you think will give you the best "leg up" with the least/average amount of work. you're gonna work hard no matter where you go - you may as well go somewhere you'll be happy in those long 4 years.

for anyone else looking for my opinions re: my school, do a search on my username or PM me. and if you PM me looking for my take on how michigan's name will be recognized when i apply to residency or if i feel "prepared" for residency or the match or whatever, you're not going to get much more of a response than "i'm working my ass off, just like i would at any other school. i'll find out if it pays off in 2 years when i match."

sorry this post is my own personal soapbox rant. i'll stop ranting now. carry on.

 

[kikkoman]

aw hell then go to what you think is a more "connected" peer institution. yeesh. otherwise. EARN your desired residency spot, people, don't depend (let alone EXPECT) on any school to hand it to you on name alone. sorry, but i'm with elias. that attitude just annoys the piss out of me.
GO TO THE SCHOOL THAT IS THE BEST FIT FOR YOU not the one you think will give you the best "leg up" with the least/average amount of work. you're gonna work hard no matter where you go - you may as well go somewhere you'll be happy in those long 4 years.

for anyone else looking for my opinions re: my school, do a search on my username or PM me. and if you PM me looking for my take on how michigan's name will be recognized when i apply to residency or if i feel "prepared" for residency or the match or whatever, you're not going to get much more of a response than "i'm working my ass off, just like i would at any other school. i'll find out if it pays off in 2 years when i match."

sorry this post is my own personal soapbox rant. i'll stop ranting now. carry on.

Jeez, I'm not saying that you shouldn't factor in how good a fit a school is for you.... Responding to the fact that UMich's match list is a little less prestigious than other schools by saying: "Oh, whatever, YOU, not the school determines what kind of residency you get" is kind of a cop-out. I really liked Michigan when I came to visit and I want to make a decision based on something more than the pitch that they give you during interview day.

 

[Whitney]

I absolutely loved the MD/PhD route. The MD part was tough to stomach at times but the PhD phase was awesome!

AndyMilonakis, just wondering how literal you meant "hard to stomach"...i'm trying to decide on how much research I want to be a part of my program....

 

[footcramp]

look, no one is saying that just because i'm at michigan i should have the pick of whatever neurosurgery spot i want. all i'm saying is that michigan's national reputation is not very strong. i think michigan trains students well and the curriculum does show signs of intelligent design. so i agree that the quality of education here is excellent. but strictly in terms of reputation, aka the wow factor, michigan is not in the same league as many schools ranked below it, like stanford, columbia, yale, ucla, cornell, pritzker, mayo... meharry, howard, etc.

when i came to interview, i heard about the residency director's rankings probably more times than i have fingers on my hand. there is something implied there, is there not?

when i go to career seminar series and residency directors (of michigan's programs) talk about how much of an advantage i have because i'm a michigan student, and i later find out that it's not really true, (or, taking a very generous interpretation, that they're actually only talking about inbreeding), i'm justified in being slightly resentful, am i not?

i never said being from michigan should excuse mediocre scores or interview performance. no one is implying that one has a right to certain cush residencies because of school brand alone. no one is "depending" on the school to take them somewhere. what has been said however, is that the michigan brand is overhyped. there is a problem if michigan can't compete on an even level with usc, uc irvine, or uc davis for a spot in california. there is a problem if michigan can't compete on an even level with mount sinai, nyu, or einstein for a spot in new york city. this has nothing to do with being lazy, depending on the school, or however you want to misrepresent it. it has everything to do with a poverty of national reputation. thus it's been said is that if one wants to do a residency in competitive areas outside of the midwest, they should strongly consider schools near those areas. (or schools with a truly national reputation) i disagree with the notion that this is tantamount to self-entitlement, dependence, laziness, or what have you.

 

[automaton]

Jeez, I'm not saying that you shouldn't factor in how good a fit a school is for you.... Responding to the fact that UMich's match list is a little less prestigious than other schools by saying: "Oh, whatever, YOU, not the school determines what kind of residency you get" is kind of a cop-out. I really liked Michigan when I came to visit and I want to make a decision based on something more than the pitch that they give you during interview day.

sdn is full of such cop-out comments

e.g...
responding to AA - i'm a better person because i'm not white or asian
responding to mcats - mcat doesn't make a good doctor
responding to undergrad - my podunk school has grade deflation
responding to medical school rank - you learn the same material, those research schools produce two dimensional lab rat clones and i want to be a whole person instead
responding to residency - so many people like living in the midwest, if you don't think so you annoy me, ooooh i'm so mad
responding to location - if you don't like cold weather you're not a macho man, muhahaha i am a macho man i never complain
responding to education levels in the south - oh you are one of those smart snobs from new england
responding to osteopathy - dude you soooo want to learn OMM
responding to caribbean - LQQQQ@@@@K at my board score, i love studying netters on the beach for 2 years
responding to reason for choosing a school - i can tell i will be totally happy there because the admissions people are so nice and i got a fleece on christmas. it has nothing at all to do with ranking, nope, i would go even if this school was ranked dead last.
...
i voted for the 86 billion before i voted against it
i'm not sure what the definition of is is
i have no free will i'm a slave of the chain of causality originating from the big bang

etc

 

[kikkoman]

sdn is full of such cop-out comments

e.g...
responding to AA - i'm a better person because i'm not white or asian
responding to mcats - mcat doesn't make a good doctor
responding to undergrad - my podunk school has grade deflation
responding to medical school rank - you learn the same material, those research schools produce two dimensional lab rat clones and i want to be a whole person instead
responding to residency - so many people like living in the midwest, if you don't think so you annoy me, ooooh i'm so mad
responding to location - if you don't like cold weather you're not a macho man, muhahaha i am a macho man i never complain
responding to education levels in the south - oh you are one of those smart snobs from new england
responding to osteopathy - dude you soooo want to learn OMM
responding to caribbean - LQQQQ@@@@K at my board score, i love studying netters on the beach for 2 years
responding to reason for choosing a school - i can tell i will be totally happy there because the admissions people are so nice and i got a fleece on christmas. it has nothing at all to do with ranking, nope, i would go even if this school was ranked dead last.
...
i voted for the 86 billion before i voted against it
i'm not sure what the definition of is is
i have no free will i'm a slave of the chain of causality originating from the big bang

etc

Beautiful.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

AndyMilonakis, just wondering how literal you meant "hard to stomach"...i'm trying to decide on how much research I want to be a part of my program....

it's just based on preference...i like basic science over clinical medicine anyday. M3 year was also very humbling. imagine, you're an expert in your field during your phd years--you publish a lot, you give talks at national meetings and symposia, you have other experts across the world that consult you for advice, ideas, and collaborations...you leave all that behind and you drop back to the bottom of the clinical totem-pole. you've forgot everything you learned during M1 and M2 year, all your classmates know more stuff than you cuz they just took Step 1, you're playing catchup all the time...then on top of that you're someone's bitch everyday for a frickin' year. that was hard to stomach but this was only temporary because i needed to be knocked down from the clouds and i quickly learned my role of bitch in the hospital. very humbling...very good experience for me. overall, as i look back, i think clinical medicine is important and i'm glad i busted my ass to learn it. why was it tough to stomach? not because of the material i was doing. not because of the work i saw other people do. but because i was a frickin' medical student...M3 year is something i would not wish on my worst enemy! anyways, now i realize that none of this past crap matters cuz i'm gonna have to get into a kickass residency program, do a kickass job and not slack off as a resident, and do a kickass postdoc to set myself up for the future.

seriously, you get into Michigan...a great school, a huge accomplishment...but don't focus on the past people. when you start med school don't rest on your laurels...wherever you go, continue to strive for excellence; then you will get rewarded.

BTW, someone mentioned the person from Michigan who matched at IM in Stanford. She was an MSTP student...discovered the molecular/genetic basis for TTP and had her paper published in Nature. She was a superstar in our program...a rare breed. She honored IM too. AOA as well. Interesting story (a so-called "MSTP moment")...during IM grand rounds, some time after her Nature paper comes out in print, somebody was doing a presentation of her paper. She raises her hand to ask a question but prefaces by saying, "I was first author on that paper." Take it whichever way you want but it caused quite a commotion

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Do you think that UMich's students are that much less able than those at UMich's peer institutions?

no way man. the umich students are very very smart and able. we work hard too. it's just that not everyone gets honors when it counts. that's the way the grading system is set up during clinical years (there is a cap as to how many students get honors).

 

[SunnyS81]

I think its interesting how people say our match list doesn't compare and how Michigan is overhyped. From the m4 online polls (which if you hunt around you might be able to find), a large portion of the class (30%) usually says the hype is real. Trust me, I think every student at Michigan thinks its' overhyped, since you hear it so often....but apparently when its all done and over with, people are amazed by it. I can give you a list of departments I know of that are amongst best in their fields. But I'll make it hard for you and let you figure it out for yourself (since I don't think any one person knows the top programs in every field....except for deans maybe). (if you're one of those people who thinks you were born to do x.......then go to the place with the best program in X......which isn't always a top ten school.....and bank on your not changing your mind).

There is a reason that the residency directors don't tell students "these are the top programs and these are really bad programs" they say, "this is a first tier, second tier, or third tier" when our kids apply.

I can tell you for sure, that the places I'll probably end up at in two years definitely aren't top ten, or maybe even 15 med schools for residency. As one of the my classmates said, "you know, when I came here, I thought that I could match at MGH after I graduated. Now I realize, you couldn't pay me enough to do my residency there."

 

[DianaLynne]

For all those folks who haven't gotten a fleece, have you checked both your preferred and your permanent addresses that you listed in AMCAS? I thought I was dissed til my Mom told me I had a box there. (where I haven't lived for like 10+ years) Turns out it was my fleece!

 

[CreativeWriter]

I got one too, but I haven't seen it yet. My best friend is mailing it to me....

what does it look like? anyone care to comment

I wonder how did they figure out our sizes...I am hoping it will fit ...or if it does not, it will be a nice waste of $$....

do you all know when the revisitation weekend is held?

For all those folks who haven't gotten a fleece, have you checked both your preferred and your permanent addresses that you listed in AMCAS? I thought I was dissed til my Mom told me I had a box there. (where I haven't lived for like 10+ years) Turns out it was my fleece!

 

[gbiz]

I've heard only people they are trying to really entice to the school get the fleeces, not everybody.

I am going insane, I was told back in October I will be having an interview in AA... but the first date open they had was Jan 21st. The waiting is killing me, especially since I know all the seats are being filled by you fleece people!

 

[bidster]

I've heard only people they are trying to really entice to the school get the fleeces, not everybody.

I am going insane, I was told back in October I will be having an interview in AA... but the first date open they had was Jan 21st. The waiting is killing me, especially since I know all the seats are being filled by you fleece people!

Don't fret....I was invited in August for a January interview but when I called, they had one opening for their last Dec date and I thought that would still be way too late--I got in two days after the interview. There is hope!!!! Good luck

 

[leechy]

sdn is full of such cop-out comments

e.g...
responding to AA - i'm a better person because i'm not white or asian
responding to mcats - mcat doesn't make a good doctor
responding to undergrad - my podunk school has grade deflation
responding to medical school rank - you learn the same material, those research schools produce two dimensional lab rat clones and i want to be a whole person instead
responding to residency - so many people like living in the midwest, if you don't think so you annoy me, ooooh i'm so mad
responding to location - if you don't like cold weather you're not a macho man, muhahaha i am a macho man i never complain
responding to education levels in the south - oh you are one of those smart snobs from new england
responding to osteopathy - dude you soooo want to learn OMM
responding to caribbean - LQQQQ@@@@K at my board score, i love studying netters on the beach for 2 years
responding to reason for choosing a school - i can tell i will be totally happy there because the admissions people are so nice and i got a fleece on christmas. it has nothing at all to do with ranking, nope, i would go even if this school was ranked dead last.
...
i voted for the 86 billion before i voted against it
i'm not sure what the definition of is is
i have no free will i'm a slave of the chain of causality originating from the big bang

etc

Hilarious!! I'm tempted to print this out and frame it.

 

[jhugti]

sdn is full of such cop-out comments

e.g...
responding to AA - i'm a better person because i'm not white or asian
responding to mcats - mcat doesn't make a good doctor
responding to undergrad - my podunk school has grade deflation
responding to medical school rank - you learn the same material, those research schools produce two dimensional lab rat clones and i want to be a whole person instead
responding to residency - so many people like living in the midwest, if you don't think so you annoy me, ooooh i'm so mad
responding to location - if you don't like cold weather you're not a macho man, muhahaha i am a macho man i never complain
responding to education levels in the south - oh you are one of those smart snobs from new england
responding to osteopathy - dude you soooo want to learn OMM
responding to caribbean - LQQQQ@@@@K at my board score, i love studying netters on the beach for 2 years
responding to reason for choosing a school - i can tell i will be totally happy there because the admissions people are so nice and i got a fleece on christmas. it has nothing at all to do with ranking, nope, i would go even if this school was ranked dead last.
...
i voted for the 86 billion before i voted against it
i'm not sure what the definition of is is
i have no free will i'm a slave of the chain of causality originating from the big bang

etc

this is probably the best post i've ever seen.

 

[DianaLynne]

I got one too, but I haven't seen it yet. My best friend is mailing it to me....

what does it look like? anyone care to comment

I wonder how did they figure out our sizes...I am hoping it will fit ...or if it does not, it will be a nice waste of $$....

do you all know when the revisitation weekend is held?

Wow, I'd love to hear the date of 2nd Look Weekend too! Especially if they're going to spend a wad of dough on us.

 

[frantic983]

No fleece for me!

 

[DianaLynne]

No fleece for me!

But acceptance though, yes? If UM is as capricious showing its affection to its prospective students, perhaps there is no correlation between financial aid packages and fleeces.

Med students are a funny bunch. First we fret continuously over whether or not we'll be accepted. Then, once we are, it's not good enough. Now we need more acceptances, more interviews. And frills! We seriously have to stress about every little thing. Now if you'll excuse me, even though it's Sunday I have to go check my mailbox...

 

[bridge01]

Wow, I'd love to hear the date of 2nd Look Weekend too! Especially if they're going to spend a wad of dough on us.

they sent an email recently that 2nd look date is 4/22 to 4/24. in case anyone was wondering.......

 

[CreativeWriter]

yahoo! i am definitely going!

by the way, the fleece is very nice. it says University of Michigan Medical School and it has the big M...very nice x-mas gift

they sent an email recently that 2nd look date is 4/22 to 4/24. in case anyone was wondering.......

 

[dutchmaster]

Does anybody know when UMich gives out their merit based scholarship offers to admitted applicants? Just wondering.

Also, what goes on at the second look weekend?

 

[ramblinwreckie]

Hey, all! When do they start pulling people off the waitlist?

 

[Dr. Donkey]

bump for Monday. Also, I've heard a lot of people come off the waitlist at UMich, is this true, any personal anecdotes, does updating help tremendously?

Hey, all! When do they start pulling people off the waitlist?

 

[Dr. Donkey]

And to answer your question, the official word is that UMich can pull you off the waitlist at ANY time, but my guess is that most of the movement will happen after May 15 like most schools when the favored sons leave.

Hey, all! When do they start pulling people off the waitlist?

 

[ellia08]

(Names and places changed to protect the innocent: well not all the names but you get the point)

I love being at the university of michigan, like the school, like the people but this is weird. So I was studying around ann arbor, and I just happened to be sitting next to a surgeon from u of m. He told me that if I was interested in research to stay the he!l away from u of m which is disorganized, with no one staying for more than 3-4 years (unhappily at best), and really is simply a supurb clinical school. Now this is perhaps an overstatement but it is vaguely similar to what I begun...just begun not sure yet... to think last year (at least in my work in computational biology and biophysics). I know that these programs are gaining steam but seem like they are still very young.

Am I completely wrong? Is the surgeon? Do you all hate research and have no idea? Or love it and are doing well? This would be helpful to know.

Thanks,
-ellia08

 

[ramblinwreckie]

And to answer your question, the official word is that UMich can pull you off the waitlist at ANY time, but my guess is that most of the movement will happen after May 15 like most schools when the favored sons leave.

Thanks!

Has anyone here been pulled off or heard of someone pulled off the waitlist before April?

I was really impressed with UMich when I visited, but I'll have already chosen a school by May 15th. UMich, take me off the waitlist! hehe...

Good luck to everyone!

 

[footcramp]

(Names and places changed to protect the innocent: well not all the names but you get the point)

I love being at the university of michigan, like the school, like the people but this is weird. So I was studying around ann arbor, and I just happened to be sitting next to a surgeon from u of m. He told me that if I was interested in research to stay the he!l away from u of m which is disorganized, with no one staying for more than 3-4 years (unhappily at best), and really is simply a supurb clinical school. Now this is perhaps an overstatement but it is vaguely similar to what I begun...just begun not sure yet... to think last year (at least in my work in computational biology and biophysics). I know that these programs are gaining steam but seem like they are still very young.

Am I completely wrong? Is the surgeon? Do you all hate research and have no idea? Or love it and are doing well? This would be helpful to know.

Thanks,
-ellia08

ok i'm obviously not a huge fan of michigan but i think this is pretty much a non-issue for medical students. if you are in the mstp program, there are plenty of non-clinical mds or phds to work under who are doing research. if you are an md applicant thinking of doing summer research, again, there are plenty of people doing research, and you can always do outside research as well. if you play your cards right the school might also fund your outside ventures, though this is BY NO MEANS guaranteed. the disgruntled surgeon is a surgeon. unless you're thinking of matching at michigan, doing surgery, AND doing research, i can't imagine why this person's situation would in any way affect you as a medical student.

there are plenty of opportunities for research for a medical student at michigan. i would definitely NOT factor this in your decision.