Unfair Accusation

[pharm B]

... stuff ...

Did you read the rest of this thread?

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[Lazybug]

m

 

[rph3664]

I hope the preceptor gets in trouble for doing this, then.

I have, however, had a couple of jobs where I was later asked during the interview if I worked for Person X, and when I replied "yes", the interviewer cringed, and another where I was asked why I left a particular hospital after 4 months. I hemmed and hawed a bit, and the interviewer set his pen down and said, "You can tell me the truth. I've been told many times that this is a very difficult place to work at."

 

[Ackj]

Indian men are really HOT....I didn't think so before but I do now.

And so it begins.... the match made in heaven.



Welcome back gurl. We've missed you.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

A very important thing to learn in life it to be able to make anyone you need to like you LIKE YOU. It makes life much easier trust me. LOL...it's always easier to attract bees with honey....

If you always seem to have people "against" you then YOU most likely have the problem.

I been in school my entire life and I have never had an "unreasonable" professor or anyone that was out to "get" me.

If you know how to act NO ONE will be out to "get" you.

I agree with this. Did I just say that?!?!

And so it begins.... the match made in heaven.



Welcome back gurl. We've missed you.

It would be the SDN wedding of the century!

 

[doublehh03]

A very important thing to learn in life it to be able to make anyone you need to like you LIKE YOU. It makes life much easier trust me. LOL...it's always easier to attract bees with honey....

If you always seem to have people "against" you then YOU most likely have the problem.

I been in school my entire life and I have never had an "unreasonable" professor or anyone that was out to "get" me.

If you know how to act NO ONE will be out to "get" you.

"Make people like you??"" You mean "sucking up." Must be hard for you It's a professional setting, not a business venture. Both sides should come into the rotation with expectations of respect and treat one another like "colleagues," with the preceptor having more experience. I don't know how much of the real world you are in, but some people are a-holes. That's just the way it is. And just FYI, sucking up can come back to bite you. As a future pharmacist, I would suggest be very knowledgeable and professional and hard-working. If you do that, you don't need to suck up to get to where you want in this setting.

"Always" seem to have people against me (or the OP). I don't know where you got that idea from. I had one irrational preceptor/pharmacist in all my 8-9 years in this field.

Then that's great that has been your experience. We all wish everyone in life never have to meet a single obstacle or hardship. It would be a perfect world if everyone we meet likes us and vice versa.

 

[doublehh03]

Just wanted to update my situation before this thread really gets out of hand. My appeal was approved due to the fact that the "preceptors' story did not add up. I guess she was embellishing the story to get it to make sense and got caught in her own lie. Thanks for everyone who supported me and said encouraging things to me during this difficult past few days and realized that just because you are a student does not mean you have to Kiss anyone's a%$$.

Great news to hear. I really hope your preceptor gets dismissed from her position (in terms of rotations). Hopefully, you get to make up whatever time left you have on your rotation and graduate on time.

 

[Cometstar]

Just wanted to update my situation before this thread really gets out of hand. My appeal was approved due to the fact that the "preceptors' story did not add up. I guess she was embellishing the story to get it to make sense and got caught in her own lie. Thanks for everyone who supported me and said encouraging things to me during this difficult past few days and realized that just because you are a student does not mean you have to Kiss anyone's a%$$.

I'm glad you won your appeal and won't fail the rotation and will graduate on time! The preceptor sounds like a really bad person. I hope the school doesn't let her precept students anymore. She is the one acting unprofessional.

 

[jawnly211]

was casually sitting back and reading the updates from day 1

glad everything got resolved



now comes the evaluation and final grade

 

[eagles22]

are you crazy....your tuition pays for liability insurance for each student...you better talk to your rotations coordinator and if they don't fix ****...go straight to the dean...if that **** doesnt get resolved go the president of the school who is charge of both undergrad and graduate....if that doesnt work, get a lawyer...start sending emails, dont do **** by phone or talking...that way you leave a paper trail and hold that person liable...i've heard of some preceptor that are straight ass holes....if she said dont print it and you printed it then it was kinda your fault....good luck....it chaps my ass to see those preceptors abuse their power...what they fail to realize is that one day that student will one day be higher than them on the totem pole and karma is a bitch....

Do you actually type three periods after each sentence or do you have some button that is set to put those in?

 

[SHC1984]

And so it begins.... the match made in heaven.



Welcome back gurl. We've missed you.

Awww..thanks! I have a crush on an Indian guy right now but I think Indian people are pretty conservative and want to only date within their race/religion. I am not Indian or Hindu...so I doubt I have a chance with them.

I agree with this. Did I just say that?!?!

Girl, we agree on A LOT OF THINGS!!! We see eye to eye on most things!

We both love baby boys! They are CUTE!!!!!

"Make people like you??"" You mean "sucking up." Must be hard for you It's a professional setting, not a business venture. Both sides should come into the rotation with expectations of respect and treat one another like "colleagues," with the preceptor having more experience. I don't know how much of the real world you are in, but some people are a-holes. That's just the way it is. And just FYI, sucking up can come back to bite you. As a future pharmacist, I would suggest be very knowledgeable and professional and hard-working. If you do that, you don't need to suck up to get to where you want in this setting.

"Always" seem to have people against me (or the OP). I don't know where you got that idea from. I had one irrational preceptor/pharmacist in all my 8-9 years in this field.

Then that's great that has been your experience. We all wish everyone in life never have to meet a single obstacle or hardship. It would be a perfect world if everyone we meet likes us and vice versa.

I don't mean to attack anyone with what I said.

ALL I mean to say is there are times in life where it's better to conform or be nice or shut up even though YOU might be 100% right anyways.

Well, I had one thing happen to me one time that was kinda stupid but I'll share it since we are sharing stories now. lol

One summer I wanted extra money to go on vacation. I found a waitressing job at a restaurant. The restaurant had all the waitresses put all their tips in a bucket and at the end of the night we all split it evenly.

The manager there however is extremely greedy. She is salaried yet she still wants to "share" our tips!!! She was a bitch.

Also she strongly favors one of the waitresses there!!!

One time I saw her sneak a $10 bill into her favorite waitress's pocket!!!! that's totally ****ED UP b/c it's SHARED TIPS...meaning everyone put ALL their tips in the bucket and split it evenly. NO STEALING PERIOD.

But that manager favored the other waitress and put bills into her pocket and I caught HER!

Well, I went up to her and totally confronted her. I told her she was WRONG for what she did and that the tips are shared. I told her she is pretty much stealing from all the other waitresses myself included! I told her she was TERRIBLE for doing that and that I SAW what she did! I told her she was TERRIBLE PERIOD.

She told the boss what happened.

The boss fired me the next day.

The boss told me the manager has been there for 2 years and I was hired 2 weeks ago. She thinks her staff is perfect and that the manager would NEVER do anything wrong period.

She saids I am new and I am most likely the CAUSE of the problem.

She fired me for it.

That was fine and all b/c I really did NOT need the money...wanted it for a trip that was it.

But now thinking about it....

Hell it was $10!!! I should have shut my mouth and I could have kept the job for a month or two longer and made several thousands of dollars!

What's MORE beneficial for me?

1) Running my mouth like a bad ass and feeling good and looking cool (to myself!) over $10 and then getting fired and losing thousands of potential income...What if I had kids to raise? what if I needed the money? I guess I would be homeless if that was the case.

2) shutting up, realize that it was only $10 and USE SOME COMMON SENSE and I should have known that restaurant owners always side with their management...especially if it's manager versus a NEW HIRER! Who the hell will side with a new hirer and fired someone that's been there for years? COMMON SENSE would have told me I would have LOST for sure.

Will any boss ever fire someone they know for YEARS over someone that they hire two weeks ago? HELL NO.

But I choose to run my mouth anyways which was stupid.

I will never make a mistake like that again.

I just try to weight the pros and cons.

Like the speeding ticket thing. Been pull over twice in my life...the cops let me off both times b/c I was polite/sweet.

Sure I could have cuss the cops out and told them they were idiots for stopping me...but will that really help my case? I think not.

All I am saying is smart people weight their pros and cons.

Running your mouth and not thinking of your consequences (even if you were right) will not be benefical to you. It might feel GOOD to cuss your boss/professor/preceptor out....but who will lose most in this case?

 

[Indypharm]

SHC,
This is the best advice I have ever seen you give on this forum.

 

[owlegrad]

Insightful SHC.

 

[WhiteSnows]

You should definitely consider legal action if you believe this is absolutely discrimination against you. I had a rotation at walgreen too, and my ****ty preceptor was being rude to me the whole time. I know how you feel.

 

[SHC1984]

SHC,
This is the best advice I have ever seen you give on this forum.

Haha thanks. Here are the advice I like best from ME.

1) don't take out too much loans b/c it's NOT worth it. Keep it less than 100K. If you have to take out 200K, you honestly are better off not going into it period. If you have super rich parents and you love pharmacy more than anything then fine do whatever you want but otherwise...I would keep it under 100K period. Trust me on this.

2) if you went into pharmacy years ago or you just recently graduated pharmacy school the job market is bad and there is a chance you won't get a job. But if you are in the class of 2011 or 2012...you still have a shot (not big though). However, right now...personally I would NOT start pharmacy school. I worry for the people that just started pharmacy school and personally would not recommend it right now. Unless thousands of jobs magically appear I would not recommend pharmacy right now. Honest opinion, not trying to start a flame war.

3) marry rich if you have the opportunity. Hell, I wish I had the opportunity. It beats working. I have to work at 4am tommorrow and it's my birthday.

4) Connections matter more than anything in life. Work on getting your connections in whatever you do. I wish I did the same.

5) Exercise, eat healthy, always look pretty.

6) ALWAYS weight your pros and cons before you do anything. That's like the advice I given before.

Good luck folks!

Insightful SHC.

Awww...the vampire owl is soooooo CUTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[spacecowgirl]

Holy hell, I agree with SHC.

I don't know where all these power-hungry preceptors are; I never had one. Most of them were too busy doing their usual jobs plus carrying my dead student weight to worry about screwing me over.

We don't have these preceptors in unicorn land. Or maybe I'm one and all my students have been too scared to put it in their evals these last few years

 

[owlegrad]

Awww...the vampire owl is soooooo CUTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, I got the idea from a good friend of mine who is into Vampires. I was a zombie owle last year, but it was a little gross. Much cuter this year.

Holy hell, I agree with SHC.

I don't know where all these power-hungry preceptors are; I never had one. Most of them were too busy doing their usual jobs plus carrying my dead student weight to worry about screwing me over.

We don't have these preceptors in unicorn land. Or maybe I'm one and all my students have been too scared to put it in their evals these last few years

So far so good for me when it comes to preceptors, but I have heard stories about some pretty bad preceptors, so who knows. I think the general consensuses is you get what you expect. Mikey for example probably had some preconceived ideas about preceptors and it sounds like they lived up to his expectation. Perception bias (or would that be preception bias ), attitude, etc., probably all play a role in what sort of experience you have.

Your last line made me LOL.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

SHC,
This is the best advice I have ever seen you give on this forum.

Insightful SHC.

Totally agree!

 

[doublehh03]

I don't mean to attack anyone with what I said.

ALL I mean to say is there are times in life where it's better to conform or be nice or shut up even though YOU might be 100% right anyways.

Well, I had one thing happen to me one time that was kinda stupid but I'll share it since we are sharing stories now. lol

One summer I wanted extra money to go on vacation. I found a waitressing job at a restaurant. The restaurant had all the waitresses put all their tips in a bucket and at the end of the night we all split it evenly.

The manager there however is extremely greedy. She is salaried yet she still wants to "share" our tips!!! She was a bitch.

Also she strongly favors one of the waitresses there!!!

One time I saw her sneak a $10 bill into her favorite waitress's pocket!!!! that's totally ****ED UP b/c it's SHARED TIPS...meaning everyone put ALL their tips in the bucket and split it evenly. NO STEALING PERIOD.

But that manager favored the other waitress and put bills into her pocket and I caught HER!

Well, I went up to her and totally confronted her. I told her she was WRONG for what she did and that the tips are shared. I told her she is pretty much stealing from all the other waitresses myself included! I told her she was TERRIBLE for doing that and that I SAW what she did! I told her she was TERRIBLE PERIOD.

She told the boss what happened.

The boss fired me the next day.

The boss told me the manager has been there for 2 years and I was hired 2 weeks ago. She thinks her staff is perfect and that the manager would NEVER do anything wrong period.

She saids I am new and I am most likely the CAUSE of the problem.

She fired me for it.

That was fine and all b/c I really did NOT need the money...wanted it for a trip that was it.

But now thinking about it....

Hell it was $10!!! I should have shut my mouth and I could have kept the job for a month or two longer and made several thousands of dollars!

What's MORE beneficial for me?

1) Running my mouth like a bad ass and feeling good and looking cool (to myself!) over $10 and then getting fired and losing thousands of potential income...What if I had kids to raise? what if I needed the money? I guess I would be homeless if that was the case.

2) shutting up, realize that it was only $10 and USE SOME COMMON SENSE and I should have known that restaurant owners always side with their management...especially if it's manager versus a NEW HIRER! Who the hell will side with a new hirer and fired someone that's been there for years? COMMON SENSE would have told me I would have LOST for sure.

Will any boss ever fire someone they know for YEARS over someone that they hire two weeks ago? HELL NO.

But I choose to run my mouth anyways which was stupid.

I will never make a mistake like that again.

I just try to weight the pros and cons.

Like the speeding ticket thing. Been pull over twice in my life...the cops let me off both times b/c I was polite/sweet.

Sure I could have cuss the cops out and told them they were idiots for stopping me...but will that really help my case? I think not.

All I am saying is smart people weight their pros and cons.

Running your mouth and not thinking of your consequences (even if you were right) will not be benefical to you. It might feel GOOD to cuss your boss/professor/preceptor out....but who will lose most in this case?

I get what you are trying to say completely, and most are valid. But the OP's misfortune is totally unrelated to the scenarios you just described.

Pharmacy/healthcare in general isn't a business venture, at least in terms of what we are talking about--rotations (or at least I hope). I may be able to understand if this was a boss/employee type of scenario (esp. in the scenario you're describing). But this is a relationship b/t a preceptor/student under an educational institution. Where do you expect this type of abuse of power to happen more?

And this comment from you:

Will any boss ever fire someone they know for YEARS over someone that they hire two weeks ago? HELL NO.

Like I said, I've seen/heard of preceptors (know of 1 during my tenure in pharmacy school) who were dismissed of their precepting position. Furthermore, I have worked as a pharmacist in the retail setting for a little over a year now, and I have seen experienced pharmacists let go over new ones, even if they are not as good. So no, it's not a HELL NO.

And how is the cops story relevant here? Did the cops pull you over for no reason and give you a ticket and you had to apologize anyways b/c the cop has more authoritative power? You were at fault for violating a LAW (OP was printing out PAPERS).. You better be contrite and apologize your ass off unless you want an expensive ticket or potentially go to jail . In the OP's case, she was wrongfully FAILED by someone who is actually supposed to be her COLLEAGUE (yes, preceptors are like your "big brother/sister"), which could end up costing the OP a lot of money, wasted time, and justice. So in this case, these "cons" (to you) should outweigh the benefits (sucking up to this unreasonable preceptor ). If she shuts her mouth in this case, it would be a travesty.

And how is the OP RANTING ON AN INTERNET BOARD running his/her mouth and trying to be a badass? I don't know if people on here associate ranting on an internet board as REAL LIFE????? . I'm sure the OP went about her business professionally to prove her point. And as we saw, her appeal as approved.

And ultimately, no offense taken.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

And how is the OP RANTING ON AN INTERNET BOARD running his/her mouth and trying to be a badass? I don't know if people on here associate ranting on an internet board as REAL LIFE?????

I love that people think the internet is anonymous. It's not. And the OP put up her REAL PICTURE with a thread where she ranted about something to do with school. Not smart. Especially since Google cache will forever associate her picture with her screen name and this thread. If she's lucky, no one at her school will see it. If she's not lucky...

 

[Lazybug]

[.

 

[Lazybug]

[

 

[KARM12]

SHC gets banned for 2 weeks and comes back a totally different poster...

In the real world you do have to know when to speak up and when to keep your mouth shut.


This is off topic from the OP where I agree it was worth trying to appeal. But I hate the fact that every student who comes to these boards with a situation thinks it is NEVER their fault. Some times it is true, but 95% of the time it is because of something stupid they did.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

---
Of course, to my sarcastic surprise, most of the people on SDN would have told Rosa Parks she should have just went to the back of the bus. Path of least resistance.

 

[owlegrad]

Just wanted to update my situation before this thread really gets out of hand. My appeal was approved due to the fact that the "preceptors' story did not add up. I guess she was embellishing the story to get it to make sense and got caught in her own lie. Thanks for everyone who supported me and said encouraging things to me during this difficult past few days and realized that just because you are a student does not mean you have to Kiss anyone's a%$$.

Were you able to finish this rotation or did the school switch you to a new one?

Glad it all worked out.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I love that people think the internet is anonymous. It's not. And the OP put up her REAL PICTURE with a thread where she ranted about something to do with school. Not smart. Especially since Google cache will forever associate her picture with her screen name and this thread. If she's lucky, no one at her school will see it. If she's not lucky...

I did the same thing, but 1000x worse. Pharmacy isn't really a small world once you leave the state you were educated in and when school is over, you never have to deal with them ever again. You get to look back and shake your head at the ridiculous, overblown, pretentious nature of pharmacy education.

OP: Just roll your eyes, jump through the idiotic hoops, and you'll graduate. Then, magically, none of this matters.

 

[jyw003]

Have the other two students done what you have done?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I did the same thing, but 1000x worse. Pharmacy isn't really a small world once you leave the state you were educated in and when school is over, you never have to deal with them ever again. You get to look back and shake your head at the ridiculous, overblown, pretentious nature of pharmacy education.

OP: Just roll your eyes, jump through the idiotic hoops, and you'll graduate. Then, magically, none of this matters.

I just think its dumb to risk it before you have the degree.

As to your other post, yeah... OP is JUST like Rosa Parks. LMAO

 

[rph3664]

I love that people think the internet is anonymous. It's not. And the OP put up her REAL PICTURE with a thread where she ranted about something to do with school. Not smart. Especially since Google cache will forever associate her picture with her screen name and this thread. If she's lucky, no one at her school will see it. If she's not lucky...

I pointed this out earlier in the thread.

There's another board I post on where there's a woman whose ex-husband is about to go on trial for raping their daughter - and it looks like a very open-and-shut case, with considerable medical and other evidence - and this woman uses her name, and her daughter's name (which is unique enough to identify both of them), as well as numerous photographs of both of them and her new boyfriend too, and the profile has her full name in it, with Facebook and Twitter links and the name of the town where they all live. And despite numerous people pointing out that it's not a good idea for her to do all this, she refuses to delete or take down any of it.

If he's acquitted, she could find herself in some very big trouble.

 

[rph3664]

Will any boss ever fire someone they know for YEARS over someone that they hire two weeks ago? HELL NO.

Really? I got fired in favor of someone who was several months away from graduation, although as most of you know, I know now that they did me a bigger favor than I could ever have imagined at the time. I found out later that this place was systematically getting rid of all the people at the top of the pay scale who were at low risk for suing, and the hospital systems in the area where I live now did the same thing, leaving out the "low risk for suing" thing. One of the people they cut had been there more than 20 years, and another is nearly 60 years old and has a child who is permanently disabled.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I pointed this out earlier in the thread.

There's another board I post on where there's a woman whose ex-husband is about to go on trial for raping their daughter - and it looks like a very open-and-shut case, with considerable medical and other evidence - and this woman uses her name, and her daughter's name (which is unique enough to identify both of them), as well as numerous photographs of both of them and her new boyfriend too, and the profile has her full name in it, with Facebook and Twitter links and the name of the town where they all live. And despite numerous people pointing out that it's not a good idea for her to do all this, she refuses to delete or take down any of it.

If he's acquitted, she could find herself in some very big trouble.

I'm surprised the prosecutors haven't told her to keep that stuff to a minimum. When we were going through the trial of the man who killed our daughter, we were told in NO uncertain terms to limit our online activity to avoid doing anything to avoid jeopardizing the trial. So we did. Why even take the risk? People can be dumb sometimes.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Really? I got fired in favor of someone who was several months away from graduation, although as most of you know, I know now that they did me a bigger favor than I could ever have imagined at the time. I found out later that this place was systematically getting rid of all the people at the top of the pay scale who were at low risk for suing, and the hospital systems in the area where I live now did the same thing, leaving out the "low risk for suing" thing. One of the people they cut had been there more than 20 years, and another is nearly 60 years old and has a child who is permanently disabled.

I think what SHC is pointing out is that typically the person with the longer tenure and established relationship with the people in power is going to come out on top of any dispute. She's not wrong about that, although there are exceptions.

 

[rph3664]

I'm surprised the prosecutors haven't told her to keep that stuff to a minimum. When we were going through the trial of the man who killed our daughter, we were told in NO uncertain terms to limit our online activity to avoid doing anything to avoid jeopardizing the trial. So we did. Why even take the risk? People can be dumb sometimes.

I've even seen people who were blogging a divorce, and wondered why the proceedings were so messy. You shouldn't even share some of that stuff with anyone who's outside the relationship, let alone the whole world, especially if you have children.

 

[KARM12]

As to your other post, yeah... OP is JUST like Rosa Parks. LMAO

Getting in trouble for printing out PHI is not quite the same as standing up for civil rights.

 

[SHC1984]

I get what you are trying to say completely, and most are valid. But the OP's misfortune is totally unrelated to the scenarios you just described.

I think the OP's misfortune is the same thing as getting a speeding ticket.

I know I shouldn't speed but I did it anyways.

The OP's preceptor told her she shouldn't print out private information about a patient. (It might sound stupid to you) but if a preceptor TOLD YOU..."Please don't do it" and you still did it anyways. Then it's the same thing as speeding and doing anything else you know you shouldn't do.

Preceptor is here to teach you. They will have their own rules. They will tell you the rules they want you to follow. If you do NOT follow it they can dismiss you from the site.

Are some of their rules stupid? Of course. But should I just NOT follow it b/c I don't want to? I don't think that's a good idea.

This is off topic from the OP where I agree it was worth trying to appeal. But I hate the fact that every student who comes to these boards with a situation thinks it is NEVER their fault. Some times it is true, but 95% of the time it is because of something stupid they did.

The school most likely side with the OP b/c the preceptor most likely have NOT filled out her midpoint evaluation.

My preceptor told me one time he had the WORST student in the history of the world. The student was terrible.

He told me he wanted to fail him b/c he deserve to fail, but then he saids he most likely can't b/c that school will not allow a preceptor to fail a student if the preceptor never fill out his or her midpoint evaluation.

If the preceptor WARN the student of their unacceptable behavior on a midpoint evaluation...and the student did NOT change...then the preceptor could fail the student.

But if the preceptor DID NOT fill out a midpoint evaluation....then he can't fail the student at the end b/c he never actually "warn" the student of their poor performance.

That is the only reason I can think of that the OP got another chance. The preceptor have not fill out an midpoint evaluation yet and the OP didn't have any "warnings" of her poor behavior (not following preceptor's requests)...so therefore the OP was given another chance.

If the preceptor fill out a midpoint evaluations saying the OP was bad at following directions and she did not change...then she would have failed.

 

[cycloketocaine]

I think the OP's misfortune is the same thing as getting a speeding ticket.

I know I shouldn't speed but I did it anyways.

The OP's preceptor told her she shouldn't print out private information about a patient. (It might sound stupid to you) but if a preceptor TOLD YOU..."Please don't do it" and you still did it anyways. Then it's the same thing as speeding and doing anything else you know you shouldn't do.

Preceptor is here to teach you. They will have their own rules. They will tell you the rules they want you to follow. If you do NOT follow it they can dismiss you from the site.

Are some of their rules stupid? Of course. But should I just NOT follow it b/c I don't want to? I don't think that's a good idea.



The school most likely side with the OP b/c the preceptor most likely have NOT filled out her midpoint evaluation.

My preceptor told me one time he had the WORST student in the history of the world. The student was terrible.

He told me he wanted to fail him b/c he deserve to fail, but then he saids he most likely can't b/c that school will not allow a preceptor to fail a student if the preceptor never fill out his or her midpoint evaluation.

If the preceptor WARN the student of their unacceptable behavior on a midpoint evaluation...and the student did NOT change...then the preceptor could fail the student.

But if the preceptor DID NOT fill out a midpoint evaluation....then he can't fail the student at the end b/c he never actually "warn" the student of their poor performance.

That is the only reason I can think of that the OP got another chance. The preceptor have not fill out an midpoint evaluation yet and the OP didn't have any "warnings" of her poor behavior (not following preceptor's requests)...so therefore the OP was given another chance.

If the preceptor fill out a midpoint evaluations saying the OP was bad at following directions and she did not change...then she would have failed.

Who are you and what did you do with SHC?

 

[Lazybug]

=

 

[owlegrad]

I like how there are individuals in here who know smack about my situation and assume one thing or another. Midpoint and final eval were given to me days ago. SDN has forever lost its credibility to me. I think there are more intellectual discussions to be had on facebook. Shameful.

How do you already have your final eval? Was that part of the appeal?

 

[joetrisman]

Who are you and what did you do with SHC?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

This story doesn't add up.

On 10/24 she says the midpoint evaluation "hasn't been done."

On 10/25 she says she just wants to be allowed to finish the rotation somewhere else.

On 10/26 she says her appeal "was approved."

Today she says she already received her midpoint and final evals?

I call BS.

 

[spacecowgirl]

Shameful because we don't blow sunshine up your ass? Hard to please, aren't we?

 

[SHC1984]

Okay fine. I'll give you the advice you want to hear.

You are 100% right.

Your preceptor was WRONG for making policies for students to follow on a rotation. She should have allow you to do whatever you wish you wanted to do on a rotation.

Her rule was stupid and you are 100% right for breaking it each time.

Your preceptor owes you an apology for telling you to follow her policy. That was wrong.

Just FYI, in life if you ever feel that a rule is stupid you don't have to follow it. You may do whatever you wish to do b/c you are always right.

Better now?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Okay fine. I'll give you the advice you want to hear.

You are 100% right.

Your preceptor was WRONG for making policies for students to follow on a rotation. She should have allow you to do whatever you wish you wanted to do on a rotation.

Her rule was stupid and you are 100% right for breaking it each time.

Your preceptor owes you an apology for telling you to follow her policy. That was wrong.

Just FYI, in life if you ever feel that a rule is stupid you don't have to follow it. You may do whatever you wish to do b/c you are always right.

Better now?

Best post of the thread!

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Personally, I can't wait for the student loan bubble to pop. I'll laugh heartily as the fiefdoms of academia finally get dissolved just a little bit. It is the most ridiculous system in the country. You pay people to be subservient to them. And you have to deal with them as they hold the keys to advanced labor options. College is an antiquated paradigm. The only thing it's good for is college football.

 

[doublehh03]

I think the OP's misfortune is the same thing as getting a speeding ticket.

I know I shouldn't speed but I did it anyways.

The OP's preceptor told her she shouldn't print out private information about a patient. (It might sound stupid to you) but if a preceptor TOLD YOU..."Please don't do it" and you still did it anyways. Then it's the same thing as speeding and doing anything else you know you shouldn't do.

Preceptor is here to teach you. They will have their own rules. They will tell you the rules they want you to follow. If you do NOT follow it they can dismiss you from the site.

Are some of their rules stupid? Of course. But should I just NOT follow it b/c I don't want to? I don't think that's a good idea.



The school most likely side with the OP b/c the preceptor most likely have NOT filled out her midpoint evaluation.

My preceptor told me one time he had the WORST student in the history of the world. The student was terrible.

He told me he wanted to fail him b/c he deserve to fail, but then he saids he most likely can't b/c that school will not allow a preceptor to fail a student if the preceptor never fill out his or her midpoint evaluation.

If the preceptor WARN the student of their unacceptable behavior on a midpoint evaluation...and the student did NOT change...then the preceptor could fail the student.

But if the preceptor DID NOT fill out a midpoint evaluation....then he can't fail the student at the end b/c he never actually "warn" the student of their poor performance.

That is the only reason I can think of that the OP got another chance. The preceptor have not fill out an midpoint evaluation yet and the OP didn't have any "warnings" of her poor behavior (not following preceptor's requests)...so therefore the OP was given another chance.

If the preceptor fill out a midpoint evaluations saying the OP was bad at following directions and she did not change...then she would have failed.

1) OP's misfortune is NOT the same as a speeding ticket. Why? You get speeding ticket b/c you broke the law of the COUNTRY. Did the institution/rotation site the OP work at MANDATE that she couldn't print out patient's info??? From what the OP was saying, no.

2) The preceptor may have their "requests" on what they prefer (and most preceptors will tell a student on what they like and not usually at the start of a rotation), but they do NOT make the rules. Students can assess the preceptors (and preceptors can be dismissed if they don't do their job), and vice versa. Preceptors still follow the school's and institution's guidelines. They are you "colleague/counselor," not your boss. Not every preceptor and student will click, but as you will find out in the real world, you will NOT like everybody you work with. You still make it work. It's called being a professional. I don't know what kind of preceptors you have had or how many butts you have kissed so far in pharmacy school but...

3) And you're right. A preceptor cannot fail a student if a midpoint eval wasn't completed. If that preceptor actually cared, he would notified the school at the midpoint that this student was so ridiculously bad and something had to be done, or else that student would have failed. How did the midpoint eval not been done? It's understandable to bypass it if you have a good student. But a "terrible" student. You better have a midpoint by week 2 and let the school know. That's on the preceptor, not the student.

Ultimately, I really hope you get to rotate with a REAL preceptor. Not somebody who has their own rules/policies that if you break them, you fail. Those kinds of preceptors need to be dismissed from precepting students. Good preceptors will act like the students' colleagues, but simply with more experience. Their job is to guide/overlook the student, and create a proper learning experience in the healthcare setting, rather than the classroom. There shouldn't be any restrictions or "rules" as you like to call them by the preceptors themselves (other than the guidelines of the school/institution). Man, if I rotated with some of your preceptors and they had their own set of rules...

Okay fine. I'll give you the advice you want to hear.

You are 100% right.

Your preceptor was WRONG for making policies for students to follow on a rotation. She should have allow you to do whatever you wish you wanted to do on a rotation.

Her rule was stupid and you are 100% right for breaking it each time.

Your preceptor owes you an apology for telling you to follow her policy. That was wrong.

Just FYI, in life if you ever feel that a rule is stupid you don't have to follow it. You may do whatever you wish to do b/c you are always right.

Better now?

Preceptor: You have to wash the bathroom every day before you leave... ok? Or else you will fail. I'll check this with the janitor before I come in every morning.

SHC: Sure will. You make the laws. I must follow.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

Preceptor: You have to wash the bathroom every day before you leave... ok? Or else you will fail. I'll check this with the janitor before I come in every morning.

SHC: Sure will. You make the laws. I must follow.

Your examples and analogies are lousy.

"Don't print PHI" is different than "Go scrub toilets."

 

[doublehh03]

Your examples and analogies are lousy.

"Don't print PHI" is different than "Go scrub toilets."

But they make the policies/rules???

No matter how stupid it is, how do you think SHC would react? From her posts, she would do exactly that just to pass.

Do you agree preceptors can make their own rules, that can pass/fail students if they don't follow? The absurdity .

I never knew there were these types of preceptors out there (or that prevalent) and the students with no backbone No wonder more pharmacy schools keep popping up. They just plug in whoever to precept students with zero accountability.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

But they make the policies/rules???

No matter how stupid it is, how do you think SHC would react? From her posts, she would do exactly that just to pass.

Do you agree preceptors can make their own rules, that can pass/fail students if they don't follow? The absurdity .

I never knew there were these types of preceptors out there (or that prevalent) and the students with no backbone No wonder more pharmacy schools keep popping up. They just plug in whoever to precept students with zero accountability.

Like I said, your example about cleaning the bathroom is dumb. And that's not what SHC meant. She was pointing out that the preceptor said "don't print PHI." It's not a totally unreasonable request, and it's related to patient privacy, etc. So the reasonable student would just comply. Cleaning the bathroom is not reasonable, is not related to pharmaceutical care, is not part of learning to be a pharmacist, and is not tied to any sort of educational outcome. So yeah, your example stinks.

 

[rxlea]

But they make the policies/rules???

No matter how stupid it is, how do you think SHC would react? From her posts, she would do exactly that just to pass.

Do you agree preceptors can make their own rules, that can pass/fail students if they don't follow? The absurdity .

I never knew there were these types of preceptors out there (or that prevalent) and the students with no backbone No wonder more pharmacy schools keep popping up. They just plug in whoever to precept students with zero accountability.

you make a lot of assumptions and you seem to have some issue with authority. It's very telling, though.

It's not about having a backbone. some students can actually be very whiny and lazy. I sometimes wonder if they just want everything their way by their rules because they were raised that way or something.

If I was teaching/mentoring/whatever a student with a ****ty attitude, I would probably find a professional way to call them on it....then make them "scrub toilets"


...

In all seriousness, if you have good communication skills, good work ethic, and really put forth the effort, I doubt there would be problems. That's why I call BS on ths situation too. I've interacted with plenty of preceptors and faculty. If you behave professionally and bring up issues in a professional manner, it can usually be worked out. Same goes for life in general. But you already know that

 

[doublehh03]

Like I said, your example about cleaning the bathroom is dumb. And that's not what SHC meant. She was pointing out that the preceptor said "don't print PHI." It's not a totally unreasonable request, and it's related to patient privacy, etc. So the reasonable student would just comply. Cleaning the bathroom is not reasonable, is not related to pharmaceutical care, is not part of learning to be a pharmacist, and is not tied to any sort of educational outcome. So yeah, your example stinks.

According to SHC, the preceptor is making the RULES/POLICIES though??? (ok, I admit the example is very stupid. Just my way to point out how ludicrous her post is).

Failure to follow a "request" of a preceptor does not equal failure of the rotation, which she's COMPLETELY wrong on that. Schools have a set of things a preceptor has to fill out while evaluating a student. Not following a particular request (unless that requests correlates with an institution guideline/law) does not automatically fail a student .

I really need to know how her school evaluates its preceptors. Judging from what she says, it's rampant at her school.