UMich v UCLA

[badambu]

Hi everyone!
I'm new to SDN, and need help making a decision (deadline is coming up!). I didn't see any information about this decision, so I thought I'd start a thread. If there is a thread already up, please point me in the right direction!
I am choosing between UCLA and University of Michigan, and could use your advice.

Some information that might be useful in helping me:
Northern California resident
Want to return to or stay in California
Like sunshine, nervous about the cold and slush
Michigan costs 30,000 (total) less over the four years
Cousin in Michigan
I liked Michigan's global research program
Don't know much about UCLA's global research program
Really liked the curriculum style at UCLA
Was not able to visit Ann Arbor
Sister and cousins in Los Angeles--easy access to people outside med community
Want to pursue outside interests like piano, world music, and singing (and am aware that I have to cut down on it a little!)
Planning to go into psychiatry for now, know I might change my mind
Hoping to do research in psychology, neuroscience, or behavioral econ
Interested in public health
Liked the people I met at Second Look for UCLA
Am secretly a giant hippie and love places like Santa Cruz and Berkeley
Any more questions? I'm sure I forgot something or put unnecessary info in.
Thanks for your help!

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[bobdogsam43]

UCLA FTW IMO

The vast majority of those reasons either point to or are most associated with UCLA. If you want to end up in California then doing well at either school will help you achieve that. However, you can't overstate the fact that UCLA IS IN California and has all of the name/networking opportunities associated with it that Michigan simply can't offer.


Both great schools....congrats

 

[badambu]

Thanks for your reply!
I just am currently feeling 50-50 about these two schools since they're both great, and I have some concerns about UCLA's apparent lack of a global research program, since I am interested in that, and am also concerned about how nurturing the faculty is. Michigan seemed like a really nurturing environment, even though it is fantastically cold.
Thanks again!

 

[veaselhaufen]

Doing rotations at Harbor-UCLA seems like an international medical opportunity. I don't see why research wouldn't be possible there

Glad that you liked us!

 

[sunset823]

Michigan. LA sucks.

Ok, that's an Ann Arbor-lovin' Midwesterner and LA hater talking (biased), but Michigan has a tremendous reputation and MANY people end up doing residency in California, and at the best hospitals there at that. I don't know as much about UCLA; I think the one advantage there is you probably rotate through more hospitals (here you're obviously rotating through UM hospitals, but it's a great hospital system). But I can't think of a more low stress place to study medicine than Ann Arbor, and you're basically getting a better school for less money.

Your research interests play to Michigan's strengths as a university as well as at the med school, there are a lot of social science majors who are med students here and tons of research in that area (which I work in right now), and of course, this is hippie-ville of the Midwest.

You'll get used to the snow, it's not THAT bad...

 

[pntgrd]

Very few people would pick Michigan over UCLA in your situation. Michigan is not a better school, does not have better hospitals, is in a harsher climate, is a suburb of one of the worst big cities in the US, and for god sakes, you want to get a residency in CA! As good a school as michigan is, UCLA will put you in a better position for residency, and let you enjoy your 4 years of med school.
30k over 4 yrs is not worth it.

 

[veaselhaufen]

^charming


Come to UCLA. Not because it's a better school, has better opportunities, or anything of the sort. They're both good for that. Come because I'm going there and it's going to be one hell of a good time

 

[19nbj58]

Very few people would pick Michigan over UCLA in your situation. Michigan is not a better school, does not have better hospitals, is in a harsher climate, is a suburb of one of the worst big cities in the US, and for god sakes, you want to get a residency in CA! As good a school as michigan is, UCLA will put you in a better position for residency, and let you enjoy your 4 years of med school.
30k over 4 yrs is not worth it.

and which medical school do you currently attend?

 

[shemarty]

Very few people would pick Michigan over UCLA in your situation. Michigan is not a better school, does not have better hospitals, is in a harsher climate, is a suburb of one of the worst big cities in the US, and for god sakes, you want to get a residency in CA! As good a school as michigan is, UCLA will put you in a better position for residency, and let you enjoy your 4 years of med school.
30k over 4 yrs is not worth it.

Sorry to hijack, but i didn't want to draw too much attention to this by starting a new thread. My question is kind of similar, and I think I'm pretty much decided, but I would appreciate some more people's perspectives before I settle this for sure.

I tried to withdraw from Michigan today and they offered me a full-tuition scholarship. I've been pretty set on UCSF since February, and my gut feeling is to go with UCSF at this point. I'm from the Bay Area and I want to stay here long-term. Friends and family are here. I signed a lease in SF with 3 other rising MS1's. I found a PI to do summer research with and we're filling out the grant application now. I have some $ saved up and I can pay for about a year and a half of UCSF before digging into non-subsidized loans. Is that it? Should I just go ahead and go to UCSF, or does Michigan warrant any more consideration?

 

[WannaBePreMed]

Sorry to hijack, but i didn't want to draw too much attention to this by starting a new thread. My question is kind of similar, and I think I'm pretty much decided, but I would appreciate some more people's perspectives before I settle this for sure.

I tried to withdraw from Michigan today and they offered me a full-tuition scholarship. I've been pretty set on UCSF since February, and my gut feeling is to go with UCSF at this point. I'm from the Bay Area and I want to stay here long-term. Friends and family are here. I signed a lease in SF with 3 other rising MS1's. I found a PI to do summer research with and we're filling out the grant application now. I have some $ saved up and I can pay for about a year and a half of UCSF before digging into non-subsidized loans. Is that it? Should I just go ahead and go to UCSF, or does Michigan warrant any more consideration?

I'm sure you know the answer to this question UCSF

Seems like you'd be more happy (family, friends)

 

[veaselhaufen]

Sorry to hijack, but i didn't want to draw too much attention to this by starting a new thread. My question is kind of similar, and I think I'm pretty much decided, but I would appreciate some more people's perspectives before I settle this for sure.

I tried to withdraw from Michigan today and they offered me a full-tuition scholarship. I've been pretty set on UCSF since February, and my gut feeling is to go with UCSF at this point. I'm from the Bay Area and I want to stay here long-term. Friends and family are here. I signed a lease in SF with 3 other rising MS1's. I found a PI to do summer research with and we're filling out the grant application now. I have some $ saved up and I can pay for about a year and a half of UCSF before digging into non-subsidized loans. Is that it? Should I just go ahead and go to UCSF, or does Michigan warrant any more consideration?

You probably don't want to hear from people of my opinion but I would go to michigan unless ucsf gave you a terrific financial aid package. The only confounding factor is closeness to family.

 

[shemarty]

You probably don't want to hear from people of my opinion but I would go to michigan unless ucsf gave you a terrific financial aid package. The only confounding factor is closeness to family.

Weather. Not important for some, but important for me. I think I'd be pretty miserable in the cold.

Desire to match in CA - I know it can be done from Mich but it would be easier to do it from UCSF.

 

[GoSpursGo]

You can always see if UCSF will sweeten the deal, even if you ultimately still plan on going to UCSF regardless.

 

[shemarty]

You can always see if UCSF will sweeten the deal, even if you ultimately still plan on going to UCSF regardless.

I don't think they even have merit-based aid...

 

[WaterBird]

Thanks for your reply!
I just am currently feeling 50-50 about these two schools since they're both great, and I have some concerns about UCLA's apparent lack of a global research program, since I am interested in that, and am also concerned about how nurturing the faculty is. Michigan seemed like a really nurturing environment, even though it is fantastically cold.
Thanks again!

For my UCLA interview day, I stayed with a friend in a PhD program there. At the end of the day, I was a little baffled, because there was no "day" like at other schools (you know what i mean). My friend pretty much laughed and said that that was her experience as well both at the interview and as a student - UCLA doesn't hand-hold. I don't know, this wasn't a big factor for me, but I wouldn't rank UCLA high on the nurturing scale.

Other things, going down your list:
Ann Arbor is pretty much the Berkeley of Michigan. There's one area that feels just like Telegraph.
Neuroscience at UCLA is really strong. I think at Michigan too though.
I would give the Public Health to Michigan.
UCLA has a much better climate (duh)

Man, I can see why this is such a tough decision - 30k over four years is a smaller difference than many other people are looking at. It's a bummer you couldn't make it back to re-visit in Mich - maybe you should make a last minute trip

Sometimes reading these threads I think Californians think winter is like in the movie Fargo. The sun still comes out, you will get appropriate clothing and learn to love seasons.

 

[sunset823]

Sometimes reading these threads I think Californians think winter is like in the movie Fargo. The sun still comes out, you will get appropriate clothing and learn to love seasons.

I can't imagine living without 4 seasons, and didn't apply anywhere that doesn't have 4 seasons...yeah, the one thing that sucks is driving in icy conditions, but seriously people

And someone said Ann Arbor is a 'suburb of the most dangerous city in the country' - first of all, Ann Arbor is nowhere near Detroit (35-40 minute drive) and is a pretty decently sized city in its own right, albeit a total college town (like Berkeley); secondly, yes Detroit has its problems, but it also has some incredible cultural icons. Baltimore is pretty dangerous and people still go to Hopkins, and Penn in Philly...

to Shemarty, that is a tougher decision, UCSF vs. Michigan, because both are fantastic schools with I think very similar values and missions; a full-tuition scholarship is great, and there is no problem getting back to UCSF for residency; I know someone who got a 'full-ride' at UM Med and is now doing her residency at UCSF (she's originally from Texas, and she managed to get to the 'cold weather' pretty fast); but if you choose UCSF, I wouldn't blame you, it's nice to have a support network

 

[thegetupkid]

SHEMARTY --> UCSF

OP --> UCLA

Both Mich and UCLA are fantastic, and extremely similar institutions (large undergrad, sports scene, amazing research, prestige, etc.) BUT UCLA would MURDER Mich in location. Where else could you go to the beach and a ski-resort in the same day? Then go clubbing or lounging at night in Hollywood? Then go downtown and experience all the ethnic food the area has to offer? Ann arbor would be hard pressed to offer much in this respect...

 

[bobdogsam43]

if someone needs hand-holding at this point in their education then thats not good....

As to the public health aspect...unless you are involved in public health research or getting your MPH I doubt anyone can give an informed opinion as to the quality of the education/research taking place at each school. UCLA is one of the best Schools of Public Health in the country.....UCLA is prolly better in some areas compared to Michigan and vice versa.

 

[bobdogsam43]

and which medical school do you currently attend?

no different then the pro-Michigan peeps offering their opinion....thats what the OP wanted. I concur with that poster too...

 

[pntgrd]

UCLA also has one of the best neuropsychiatric hospitals in the world, part of the Ronald Reagan Hospital complex.

 

[19nbj58]

no different then the pro-Michigan peeps offering their opinion....thats what the OP wanted. I concur with that poster too...

of course you would

 

[bobdogsam43]

of course you would

what's ur beef with peeps in this thread supporting UCLA?

 

[shemarty]

badambu, i'm voting for UCLA

 

[usermike8500]

UCLA has problem based learning. Look up any thread on PBL and ask yourself if that's a learning style that is right for you.

 

[ringhal]

I thought I'd chime in with an admittedly biased opinion as someone on the other side of medical school. One of the big problems with the medical school admission and application process is that what you see of medical school as an interviewee is the least important part. I gave tours of UCLA as a first year med student and eventually ended up as a voting member of the admissions committee - not anymore, btw.

During the interview process you're given a tour by some bright, cheerful 1st year and shown the library, the cafeteria and some study rooms or whatever. I can tell you that from Harvard Med down to St. George in the Caribbean, the first 2 years of medical school are not that different: stinky anatomy lab, some great lecturers, some terrible ones, some annoying small groups, a lot of studying, hard tests followed by drunken binges and meeting some good people - a few of which you'll keep in touch with 10 years later. Medical school in and of itself is not going to do much to prepare you for the USMLE (the most important test in your life after the MCAT). That prep will be on your own, after class, late at night and on the weekends when your non-medical friends are going out.

Looking back, though, most MD's will tell you that med school isn't about that stuff. Medical school is about the 3rd and fourth years. That's where you try to figure out what you want to spend the rest of your career doing. And for that, its crucial to be exposed to as many different things as possible, in as many places as possible.

Here, UCLA is very, very good. In my 3rd year, I rotated through 2 different private hospitals: UCLA and Cedars, 2 county hospitals: Olive View and Harbor UCLA, 2 different Kaiser hopsitals and the VA. And I that didn't include all my possible options. This was meaningless for me because by then I'd already decided on radiology, but that's besides the point. I got to see how stuff was done at different places; were I interested in IM, peds, OB, family med or surg., I'd already put face-time in at those places and folks knew me.

This touches on my last point, medicine is like every other important field. There are superstars who walk on water and have people going out of their way to open doors for them. For the rest of us, success is predicated on who we know. Look at almost any competitive residency and you'll find a disproportionate number of residents from the associated medical school. UC residencies like UC med students. Obviously there are other factors involved but being a known applicant (who's not an idiot) is an enormous plus.

I'm not gonna address living in Ann Arbor vs. West LA (3 miles from the Pacific). Either you like the Westside, or you don't. And even if you don't, most people can live anywhere for 4 years - same goes for Michigan, obviously.

And research? Meh. Research is available at both places. That really should be the least important part of your decision unless you're applying MD/PhD. If you wanna use international "research" as a way to get paid to go overseas, don't waste your time. As I fourth year, I had no problem setting up electives in Glasgow, Dublin, Hawaii, Sydney and Auckland. I only went to one of them, but I could have done more. I chose the South Pacific - and I chose wisely...

Good luck with your decision.