Total Rad Onc Applicants Shoot Back Up To Exceed 2019 Level

[2021Doctor]

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[Lamount]

I am curious to see if my peers on this forum will be happy that competitiveness may have seen its nadir, or unhappy that this will encourage expansion.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

The number that should be used to measure competitiveness is US grads. The US medical students get it and the number in 2022 is 40% lower than 2017-8. The most important number is the number of positions filled. I would prefer that the total number filled was closer to 150 than 200 but someone needs to prep the notes.

 

[deleted1111261]

Really odd thing to only look at absolute total.

FMG tripled since 2018 - 26 to 79
US MD+DO went from 226 to 153

How is this a return to the same?

 

[thecarbonionangle]

DJ spin machine in da house. They be spinning dat beat! Bottoms up.

 

[fiji128]

Really odd thing to only look at absolute total.

FMG tripled since 2018 - 26 to 79
US MD+DO went from 226 to 153

How is this a return to the same?

Who knows. I guess we are now at a point where the standard is getting anyone to apply is considered a win by chairs and PDs of the world. In, lets say, 2005 to 2018 the standard was top of class, near perfect application, MD PhD ect... just to be considered at bottom tier programs. Now the standard is essentially are you willing to submit an application and hopefully obtain a pgy-1 spot.

 

[RickyScott]

I am curious to see if my peers on this forum will be happy that competitiveness may have seen its nadir, or unhappy that this will encourage expansion.

Artificially inflated by applications from all the refugees who were airlifted out of afghanistan.

 

[2021Doctor]

Any warm bodies will do. Lazy attendings at residency programs cannot be expected to dictate notes and document patient encounters. Job market be d***ed.

 

[Chartreuse Wombat]

Artificially inflated by applications from all the refugees who were airlifted out of afghanistan.

Expecting this to get deleted and i will receive warning

...Artificially decreased by Americans left in in Afghanistan.../sarc...kind of

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Eh.

This is like a trial reporting an OS benefit without a PFS benefit.

Those are certainly numbers. They're definitely not the numbers from before. I don't know what to make of the numbers.

In my practice, I'm still recommending omission of RadOnc Residency per OMFG 2022.

 

[medgator]

I am curious to see if my peers on this forum will be happy that competitiveness may have seen its nadir, or unhappy that this will encourage expansion.

Really? Have you parsed the data? How is it more competitive this year for US medical students?

 

[Lamount]

Really? Have you parsed the data? How is it more competitive this year for US medical students?

116 -> 132. Not saying it’s competitive, but perhaps it’s less uncompetitive than last year

 

[RickyScott]

116 -> 132. Not saying it’s competitive, but perhaps it’s less uncompetitive than last year

100% match rate is unprecedented for a medical specialty. Last year, we were at 99.3%which was a record over the last 20 years.

 

[Lamount]

100% match rate is unprecedented for a medical specialty. Last year, we were at 99% which was a record over the last 20 years.

Agree… but I would hazard a guess (and it is just a guess) that the average step 1 score for rad onc is higher than a specialty like OB/GYN.


Look, I haven’t drank the Kool-Aid… but there are a few ways to define “competitiveness”. Percentage matched is one, number of applicants and stats of those who applied are others. In the first, we continue to suck. The second may have seen its nadir and we don’t have data on the third yet.

 

[seper]

I can confirm, mutiple programs started recruiting overseas and are sponsoring visas, which has never been a possibility in RadOnc

 

[medgator]

Agree… but I would hazard a guess (and it is just a guess) that the average step 1 score for rad onc is higher than a specialty like OB/GYN.

Why?

 

[RickyScott]

I can confirm, mutiple programs started recruiting overseas and are sponsoring visas, which has never been a possibility in RadOnc

Did Dan Golden go on a recruiting tour of caribean med schools again?

 

[Lamount]

Why?

I interviewed a cohort of 15 this year. Average step 1 was well over 230. Not exactly the biggest sample, but more than enough for a guess

 

[Lamount]

Why?

Honest question for you… why do you push back so hard when someone claims the sky isn’t falling? Is it falling?

 

[RickyScott]

I interviewed a cohort of 15 this year. Average step 1 was well over 230. Not exactly the biggest sample, but more than enough for a guess

Is 230 a good score today. What is the average?

 

[medgator]

Honest question for you… why do you push back so hard when someone claims the sky isn’t falling? Is it falling?

I look at the data..... Unprecedented numbers into the SOAP two years in a row, way lower numbers of us grads applying that for the last 2 decades.

Why are you approaching this with such a pollyanna attitude when clearly things are not right in the state of Denmark?

 

[seper]

Did Dan Golden go on a recruiting tour of caribean med schools again?

Middle East, South America

 

[Burt Radnolds]

I interviewed a cohort of 15 this year. Average step 1 was well over 230. Not exactly the biggest sample, but more than enough for a guess

Well the avg score overall is like 234. I would wager OB avg score is higher than rad onc currently.

 

[Lamount]

I look at the data..... Unprecedented numbers into the SOAP two years in a row, way lower numbers of us grads applying that for the last 2 decades.

Why are you approaching this with such a pollyanna attitude when clearly things are not right in the state of Denmark?

There’s a lot of daylight between the most competitive specialty and the sky is falling. There may be something wrong in Denmark, but that doesn’t mean it is the 9th circle of hell. I share many of your concerns, just with less intensity.

 

[Lamount]

Well the avg score overall is like 234. I would wager OB avg score is higher than rad onc currently.

Doesnt the NRMP release the data on individual specialties? Will be interesting to see

 

[medgator]

There’s a lot of daylight between the most competitive specialty and the sky is falling. There may be something wrong in Denmark, but that doesn’t mean it is the 9th circle of hell. I share many of your concerns, just with less intensity.

35/190 slots in the soap and a 100% us medical student match rate? Has any other specialty done that in recent memory?

Honest question

 

[jondunn]

at the end of the day match rates are a symptom. not the cause. at least to me, it doesnt matter, what matters is job market.

question is is the sky falling in job market. currently no. when will it? that's the million dollar question.

if the cause declares itself, the symptom will worsen

if enough time goes by with no worsening of cause, symptom will subside.

 

[RickyScott]

There’s a lot of daylight between the most competitive specialty and the sky is falling. There may be something wrong in Denmark, but that doesn’t mean it is the 9th circle of hell. I share many of your concerns, just with less intensity.

That’s a perfectly reasonable view, but of course there is a chance that you are wrong and the sky is in fact falling (or will fall with a yet to come paradigm shift/disruption to a single modality/technology ) To you that chance may be 10%, and to me it may be 80%. Wh0 would take even a 10% risk? If someone told me that saccharin has a 5% chance of causing cancer, I would use aspartame instead. Why take existential risks.

 

[ramsesthenice]

but I would hazard a guess (and it is just a guess) that the average step 1 score for rad onc is higher than a specialty like OB/GYN.

Depends. If you only count the first attempt by all applicants I doubt we are. If you only count the most recent (ie passing) attempt then maybe we have a shot. Even then, I doubt it. I reviewed a quarter of the total pool this year. It ain’t pretty.

 

[jondunn]

Depends. If you only count the first attempt by all applicants I doubt we are. If you only count the most recent (ie passing) attempt then maybe we have a shot. Even then, I doubt it. I reviewed a quarter of the total pool this year. It ain’t pretty.

you guys are clearly at diff tiers of programs

ramses is likely at a place that people don't want to go to. whether it is location, reputation/'prestige', job placement, or all of the above

you seem great, so im sure its not a hellpit, but the good med students have choices

 

[TheWallnerus]

I really don’t know how to suss the rad onc job market anymore. I like to stay data based. Here’s what I consider data (not opinion):

1) the number of patients per rad onc is decreasing over time
2) avg reimbursement per rad onc is decreasing over time
3) resident case loads are decreasing over time
4) America is the most supplied country on earth in terms of rad oncs and linacs
5) The utilization of RT in de novo diagnosed cancer patients is decreasing over time
6) Rad oncs are using less treatments per patient over time
7) Supervision levels are falling in rad onc over time

Now I would have looked at all this data and predicted some increasing tough times in rad onc job market. But I think there’s one more data point that can forestall the bursting of what seems to be a bubble:

8) America is the most well reimbursed for tx for RT patients of any country on earth.

 

[ramsesthenice]

you guys are clearly at diff tiers of programs

ramses is likely at a place that people don't want to go to. whether it is location, reputation/'prestige', job placement, or all of the above

you seem great, so im sure its not a hellpit, but the good med students have choices

To be clear, that was mostly in jest. Even now, there are not many straight up failures applying for the field: especially among US grads. There are still a good number of decent US grads applying. It’s just such a shock to the system how quickly the applicant pool morphed to what it is today.

I’m not going to dox myself. My program has a lot of perks but location is definitely not one for a lot of people. We are established but pretty average. Scarcity drives evolution and unfortunately for most of us, evolution does not favor the average

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

I really don’t know how to suss the rad onc job market anymore. I like to stay data based. Here’s what I consider data (not opinion):

1) the number of patients per rad onc is decreasing over time
2) avg reimbursement per rad onc is decreasing over time
3) resident case loads are decreasing over time
4) America is the most supplied country on earth in terms of rad oncs and linacs
5) The utilization of RT in de novo diagnosed cancer patients is decreasing over time
6) Rad oncs are using less treatments per patient over time
7) Supervision levels are falling in rad onc over time

Now I would have looked at all this data and predicted some increasing tough times in rad onc job market. But I think there’s one more data point that can forestall the bursting of what seems to be a bubble:

8) America is the most well reimbursed for tx for RT patients of any country on earth.

Interesting items to consider as confounders to data:

(note: these are not data, these are hypotheses based on anecdotes)

1) Anecdote/rumor is that this seems to be a "good" year for jobs. Though there could be several reasons, one of which I have heard about is the knowledge that the "competitiveness" of RadOnc significantly declined in 2018/2019, and this is one of the last classes with the "rock-star" med students (read: good test takers who can excel in the system of items medicine likes to stratify people by). Hospitals and institutions are trying to "future-proof" themselves by loading the bench while they can.

2) Over-hiring to load the bench can strain finances, which, as @TheWallnerus points out, are already at risk with decreasing reimbursements and collections through multiple factors. That means that perturbations to the bottom line - which would have previously only been noted by the bean counters but not felt at the physician level - could cause an increase in new grads being terminated for no reason other than money that was "planned for" didn't materialize. The impact of this will take place on a time scale of years (1-3 years would be my guess) and recall bias will just be "ARRO job survey for 2022 was great".

3) I do think COVID has caused/will cause a slight uptick in retirement (also, because the stock market has done well concurrently). This could also drive the "good" year.

4) However, RadOnc has never been a "demanding" job and it is not uncommon to see docs working into their 70s and even their 80s. We have been in a period where this is "dangerous", as in - when these docs trained and were at their peak, the actual work of Radiation Oncology was "easy" because you were just taking a crayon to a film (gross generalization, don't cancel me - you know what I mean). Over the last 10-20 years, with computers and VMAT, these docs either relied on residents/Dosi to pick up the slack, or just practiced bad medicine. The ones with introspection knew it was time to retire.

5) It seems to me that AI-based autocontouring and remote Dosimetry services will lead to a renaissance of "weak" or elderly doctors being able to linger A LOT longer. Over the last 3-4 years, the technology appears to have become significantly more available. In the incredibly near future I think we'll return to the "crayon on film" days, where docs can put very little thought into treatment planning without much consequence (perhaps tumor control won't be ideal, but they won't be killing anyone).

6) All of medicine continues to get bogged down with more and more admin/billing/paperwork tasks. A lot of us feel (and are) very busy even though patients on beam are not what they once were (I know many private practice docs in the 90s and early 200s with 60-70+ patients on beam routinely). So, this goes into the conversation about reimbursement and collection cuts - I think there's going to be an increase in non-reimbursable work which will require higher staffing loads (physician or otherwise) which will, of course, cut salaries for everyone.

I think I'm forgetting a few things but I have personally observed all these anecdotes: over-hiring, contract terminations for small financial perturbations, COVID catalyzing the decision to retire, old docs practicing poor medicine in the modern era, AI-based software being cheap and widely available reducing the time/complexity of treatment planning.

All of these will effect the job market immediately and down the road.

 

[deleted1111261]

@elementaryschooleconomics

I think you’re missing a few really important aspects of this.

1) work from home + continued direct supervision in the short term creates the need for more of us (or stabilizes the numbers). The last two jobs I had were 1.0 FTE with one day at home. This is becoming quite common.

2) happiness with median income in employed position. I can’t tell you how many people I meet that are happy with making the median without bonus. If your spouse has an income, why bust your tail? My wife doesn’t work outside the house, and I still don’t care if I bonus

3) you young fellas love your hobbies and adventures (as do I). I would take less money for more vacation. Many people would - more so than the boomers who don’t even use all their days. I took so many I had to pay an employer back, lol.

4) more females in the workforce changes the overall hours worked, and if physician numbers stay stable, then need more of them to maintain same number of hours worked. This is not a bad thing.

So, the short term “good job market” isn’t imaginary but it doesn’t have a good foundation.

Chirag, Emma Fields, Todd and Jason Beckta going to talk about all of this stuff in detail on Accelerators podcast really soon.

 

[medgator]

@elementaryschooleconomics

I think you’re missing a few really important aspects of this.

1) work from home + continued direct supervision in the short term creates the need for more of us (or stabilizes the numbers). The last two jobs I had were 1.0 FTE with one day at home. This is becoming quite common.

2) happiness with median income in employed position. I can’t tell you how many people I meet that are happy with making the median without bonus. If your spouse has an income, why bust your tail? My wife doesn’t work outside the house, and I still don’t care if I bonus

3) you young fellas love your hobbies and adventures (as do I). I would take less money for more vacation. Many people would - more so than the boomers who don’t even use all their days. I took so many I had to pay an employer back, lol.

4) more females in the workforce changes the overall hours worked, and if physician numbers stay stable, then need more of them to maintain same number of hours worked. This is not a bad thing.

So, the short term “good job market” isn’t imaginary but it doesn’t have a good foundation.

Chirag, Emma Fields, Todd and Jason Beckta going to talk about all of this stuff in detail on Accelerators podcast really soon.

And i guess it goes back to how you define it as "good".... I think geography is that overarching theme here and from that standpoint, this years market does feel a lot more open geographically than the last couple. Lots of sunbelt positions, sometimes multiple in the same city.

I feel like i am seeing more recruiter emails for rural practice opportunities offering technical partnership as well, again all of the above being based on my gestalt and "anecdotes." I agree that it is probably temporary for the reasons you've listed. Many of us have taken advantage of tele-supervision and i do believe that genie isn't going back in the bottle after the pandemic ends

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

@elementaryschooleconomics

I think you’re missing a few really important aspects of this.

1) work from home + continued direct supervision in the short term creates the need for more of us (or stabilizes the numbers). The last two jobs I had were 1.0 FTE with one day at home. This is becoming quite common.

2) happiness with median income in employed position. I can’t tell you how many people I meet that are happy with making the median without bonus. If your spouse has an income, why bust your tail? My wife doesn’t work outside the house, and I still don’t care if I bonus

3) you young fellas love your hobbies and adventures (as do I). I would take less money for more vacation. Many people would - more so than the boomers who don’t even use all their days. I took so many I had to pay an employer back, lol.

4) more females in the workforce changes the overall hours worked, and if physician numbers stay stable, then need more of them to maintain same number of hours worked. This is not a bad thing.

So, the short term “good job market” isn’t imaginary but it doesn’t have a good foundation.

Chirag, Emma Fields, Todd and Jason Beckta going to talk about all of this stuff in detail on Accelerators podcast really soon.

Totally agree - so many "soft" aspects to consider.

The items @TheWallnerus posted are really the only "data" we have, and they paint an obviously negative picture.

Considering all these things in aggregate - RadOnc is currently exactly as "competitive" as it should be. We're at the mercy of the referral chain, the bulk of our clinical research is focused on reducing our footprint, advances in other fields (pharma etc) are further reducing our footprint, treatment planning is becoming increasingly automated, salaries have stagnated (technically dropping, given inflation) etc etc etc.

There will always be jobs. Will they be "good" jobs in "good" locations? "Good" is, of course, subjective. There is absolutely no reason Radiation Oncology should be the ridiculous, insanely competitive specialty it was over the last 15-20 years.

I don't see any meaningful reduction in residency spots happening, ever. The financial incentives in the "economy of residents" are too great. I'd settle for everyone just understanding and being honest about what we are. Over the last few years the #RaRaRadOnc stuff on Twitter has calmed down significantly. I know some blowhards are still singing about RadOnc as a magical land of wishes and magic to hapless medical students, but every specialty contends with that.

We're returning to our roots: a specialty for people who are just absolutely obsessed with using radiation to treat cancer, and a safe haven for medical students or foreign docs who would struggle to Match into other fields. I know some people have their egos wrapped up in this, and really built a personality around being granted access to one of the "most competitive" specialties in America, and the fall from grace is really painful. It's gonna be OK - egos can be built around other things. People shouldn't let their job title define them. We're more than that.

 

[deleted941485]

The desperate people that need to get their foot in the US.

Totally agree - so many "soft" aspects to consider.

The items @TheWallnerus posted are really the only "data" we have, and they paint an obviously negative picture.

Considering all these things in aggregate - RadOnc is currently exactly as "competitive" as it should be. We're at the mercy of the referral chain, the bulk of our clinical research is focused on reducing our footprint, advances in other fields (pharma etc) are further reducing our footprint, treatment planning is becoming increasingly automated, salaries have stagnated (technically dropping, given inflation) etc etc etc.

There will always be jobs. Will they be "good" jobs in "good" locations? "Good" is, of course, subjective. There is absolutely no reason Radiation Oncology should be the ridiculous, insanely competitive specialty it was over the last 15-20 years.

I don't see any meaningful reduction in residency spots happening, ever. The financial incentives in the "economy of residents" are too great. I'd settle for everyone just understanding and being honest about what we are. Over the last few years the #RaRaRadOnc stuff on Twitter has calmed down significantly. I know some blowhards are still singing about RadOnc as a magical land of wishes and magic to hapless medical students, but every specialty contends with that.

We're returning to our roots: a specialty for people who are just absolutely obsessed with using radiation to treat cancer, and a safe haven for medical students or foreign docs who would struggle to Match into other fields. I know some people have their egos wrapped up in this, and really built a personality around being granted access to one of the "most competitive" specialties in America, and the fall from grace is really painful. It's gonna be OK - egos can be built around other things. People shouldn't let their job title define them. We're more than that.

I always thought it was a bit absurd even as a med student. The sanctimonious bull**** I had to put up with from RO faculty trying to attach some kind of mysticism to the whole endeavor. You basically had to dedicate your entire med school time to building a resume to get into radonc.

Been doing quite a bit of introspection since graduating. The truth is that most of what I did as a med student I did not really like. Surgery was filled with dinguses and medicine seemed to be filled with people who were burnt out. RO seemed like a good fit even though the day to day wasn’t particularly interesting and honestly I just liked contouring. Hours were good and you could get paid like a surg sub for not much work. Maybe I should have just put up with the blowhards in Ortho or Uro and powered through would have had a hell of a lot easier in the long run.

Now I’m too old to retrain and my wife is no help. Industry may be the next stop even if it comes with less money. I have to get out of this hellhole someway. I’ve starting taking some big risks with my stock portfolio lately betting 125/ba make some extra cash to hold us over while I find something else to do.

 

[taserlaser]

The desperate people that need to get their foot in the US.


I always thought it was a bit absurd even as a med student. The sanctimonious bull**** I had to put up with from RO faculty trying to attach some kind of mysticism to the whole endeavor. You basically had to dedicate your entire med school time to building a resume to get into radonc.

Been doing quite a bit of introspection since graduating. The truth is that most of what I did as a med student I did not really like. Surgery was filled with dinguses and medicine seemed to be filled with people who were burnt out. RO seemed like a good fit even though the day to day wasn’t particularly interesting and honestly I just liked contouring. Hours were good and you could get paid like a surg sub for not much work. Maybe I should have just put up with the blowhards in Ortho or Uro and powered through would have had a hell of a lot easier in the long run.

Now I’m too old to retrain and my wife is no help. Industry may be the next stop even if it comes with less money. I have to get out of this hellhole someway. I’ve starting taking some big risks with my stock portfolio lately betting 125/ba make some extra cash to hold us over while I find something else to do.

Honestly if the market goes tits up - retirements further get delayed, it impacts the job situation. Now in the more unlikely but very interesting scenario where say a certain meme stock does go to the moon- I can only imagine the mass retirements across all sectors including medicine that will result in further labor shortages. Trying to get out of the rat race is not unique to medicine and something like that really stands to shake the whole market up

 

[jondunn]

RO seemed like a good fit even though the day to day wasn’t particularly interesting and honestly I just liked contouring.

the good thing is I really enjoy my day to day in rad onc. I think I would hate the day to day in most other things to be honest. whether it is the dark radiology reading rooms, the OR, the inpatient floors, or the busy clinic mills of Derm, I feel like nothing is like rad onc.

 

[RickyScott]

the good thing is I really enjoy my day to day in rad onc. I think I would hate the day to day in most other things to be honest. whether it is the dark radiology reading rooms, the OR, the inpatient floors, or the busy clinic mills of Derm, I feel like nothing is like rad onc.

Anesthesia can be laid back

 

[theradiator]

The desperate people that need to get their foot in the US.


I always thought it was a bit absurd even as a med student. The sanctimonious bull**** I had to put up with from RO faculty trying to attach some kind of mysticism to the whole endeavor. You basically had to dedicate your entire med school time to building a resume to get into radonc.

Been doing quite a bit of introspection since graduating. The truth is that most of what I did as a med student I did not really like. Surgery was filled with dinguses and medicine seemed to be filled with people who were burnt out. RO seemed like a good fit even though the day to day wasn’t particularly interesting and honestly I just liked contouring. Hours were good and you could get paid like a surg sub for not much work. Maybe I should have just put up with the blowhards in Ortho or Uro and powered through would have had a hell of a lot easier in the long run.

Now I’m too old to retrain and my wife is no help. Industry may be the next stop even if it comes with less money. I have to get out of this hellhole someway. I’ve starting taking some big risks with my stock portfolio lately betting 125/ba make some extra cash to hold us over while I find something else to do.

Although unquantifiable, I wonder how much of the attraction of radiation oncology in the golden era was its competitive nature. Using the stock analogy, how much of the growth was momentum rather than the underlying fundamentals.

 

[fiji128]

The desperate people that need to get their foot in the US.


I always thought it was a bit absurd even as a med student. The sanctimonious bull**** I had to put up with from RO faculty trying to attach some kind of mysticism to the whole endeavor. You basically had to dedicate your entire med school time to building a resume to get into radonc.

Been doing quite a bit of introspection since graduating. The truth is that most of what I did as a med student I did not really like. Surgery was filled with dinguses and medicine seemed to be filled with people who were burnt out. RO seemed like a good fit even though the day to day wasn’t particularly interesting and honestly I just liked contouring. Hours were good and you could get paid like a surg sub for not much work. Maybe I should have just put up with the blowhards in Ortho or Uro and powered through would have had a hell of a lot easier in the long run.

Now I’m too old to retrain and my wife is no help. Industry may be the next stop even if it comes with less money. I have to get out of this hellhole someway. I’ve starting taking some big risks with my stock portfolio lately betting 125/ba make some extra cash to hold us over while I find something else to do.

You might want to look into a pay cut and take one of these 4 day/week jobs that people are saying are out there. Burn out is real in medicine including rad onc.

 

[fiji128]

Although unquantifiable, I wonder how much of the attraction of radiation oncology in the golden era was its competitive nature. Using the stock analogy, how much of the growth was momentum rather than the underlying fundamentals.

Initially it was underlying growth and great fundamentals from about 2000 to 2010. Peak Rad Onc top of the market was the Ben Smith paper. After that it was all momentum as the underlying fundamentals began to deteriorate and continue to do so. Those that matched after 2010 bought in on momentum (not that a med student would really be able to judge such things for themselves).

 

[theradiator]

You might want to look into a pay cut and take one of these 4 day/week jobs that people are saying are out there. Burn out is real in medicine including rad onc.

Like everything else, it's yes and no.

A high volume 4 day/week job presumably means catching up on notes and contours on your day off. A low volume 4 day/week job although easy could mean dread that the job could be eliminated or replaced.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Like everything else, it's yes and no.

A high volume 4 day/week job presumably means catching up on notes and contours on your day off. A low volume 4 day/week job although easy could mean dread that the job could be eliminated or replaced.

Catching up on notes and contours? Isn't that what 9PM-midnight is for?

 

[jondunn]

Although unquantifiable, I wonder how much of the attraction of radiation oncology in the golden era was its competitive nature. Using the stock analogy, how much of the growth was momentum rather than the underlying fundamentals.

It absolutely was part of the appeal. Med students ten years ago look on here to see what’s ‘hot’ and they still do now and they will ten years from now

 

[deleted1111261]

It absolutely was part of the appeal. Med students ten years ago look on here to see what’s ‘hot’ and they still do now and they will ten years from now

Definitely.

 

[seper]

It absolutely was part of the appeal. Med students ten years ago look on here to see what’s ‘hot’ and they still do now and they will ten years from now

That + magic of curing tumors without a knife. Irresistible

 

[RadOncDoc21]

The desperate people that need to get their foot in the US.


I always thought it was a bit absurd even as a med student. The sanctimonious bull**** I had to put up with from RO faculty trying to attach some kind of mysticism to the whole endeavor. You basically had to dedicate your entire med school time to building a resume to get into radonc.

Been doing quite a bit of introspection since graduating. The truth is that most of what I did as a med student I did not really like. Surgery was filled with dinguses and medicine seemed to be filled with people who were burnt out. RO seemed like a good fit even though the day to day wasn’t particularly interesting and honestly I just liked contouring. Hours were good and you could get paid like a surg sub for not much work. Maybe I should have just put up with the blowhards in Ortho or Uro and powered through would have had a hell of a lot easier in the long run.

Now I’m too old to retrain and my wife is no help. Industry may be the next stop even if it comes with less money. I have to get out of this hellhole someway. I’ve starting taking some big risks with my stock portfolio lately betting 125/ba make some extra cash to hold us over while I find something else to do.

Same here… unfortunately I went in hard recently on stocks and it wasn’t a good time to go into the market as it recently took a downhill spiral. I’m still banking on investing to get me through this hellpit. I’m done with medicine overall and wish I would have got a MBA.

 

[OTN]

Like everything else, it's yes and no.

A high volume 4 day/week job presumably means catching up on notes and contours on your day off. A low volume 4 day/week job although easy could mean dread that the job could be eliminated or replaced.

I have a high-volume 4 day/week job. Those 4 days are long and intense, but it's worth it for the extra one off. It helps to be efficient at charting, which is kind of easy once you realize no one cares what we write in our notes.