This sums up how I feel about student loan forgiveness

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pharmacy_sucks said:
VMware stock is down, and Microsoft is dominating the cloud and server virtualization, then there comes AWS, so what else do you expect?
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sb247 said:
Literally everyone in the US has a chance to go to university
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Yes. I said Europe is cheap and unequal. USA is equal chance to university but expensive
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giga said:
What's absurd is dismissing history and saying let bygones be bygones without addressing the ongoing disparities that history created. Eliminating disparities isn't the same thing as equality of outcomes, rather its equality of opportunities.
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You’re building straw men. I never said let bygones be bygones. I’m saying it’s inappropriate to demand recompense from people who didn’t do anything wrong.

And you literally just said you want equity of poverty/wealth. That’s outcome. We already have equality of legal opportunities
 
giga said:
How else would you correct the harms of government power used to steal land and labor?

We do not already have equality of legal opportunities. Maybe in theory, but not in practice. If we did, we wouldn't see the significant disparities that exist in poverty/wealth.
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Culture and family structure is a big contributor to disparity

We do have legal opportunity equality (actually bent toward those doing worse right now). What do you think we don’t have equality in legal opportunities for?
 
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pharmacy_sucks said:
VMware stock is down, and Microsoft is dominating the cloud and server virtualization, then there comes AWS, so what else do you expect?
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Haven't done aws. VMware is more like virtual box. Can use a windows computer in a Mac. I didn't know that about Microsoft but I'm going after my aws cerf. Aws and devops are the hot word of late. And of course tech fades
 
CaNvWa farm said:
Is that personal/individual income tax only?
I was talking about businesses, corporations, for-profit colleges,...included.
Somehow the tax structure makes them pay no tax.
For example, step-up in basis law.
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Sorry, but I don't care that non-person entities don't pay taxes. If a person working for said non-person entities takes money home, they get taxed.

Who pays the taxes on business? The answer is ultimately the consumer.
 
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giga said:
Culture and family structure evolved from slavery, mass displacement, mass murders, and even to this day, mass incarceration, Indian reservations, etc. Do you think variables like culture and family structure are not influenced by government power?

As a result of how the US was created, certain "cultures and family structures" are more likely to live in safety, have more privacy, receive leniency in criminal proceedings/receive "second chances", be given the benefit of the doubt by authorities, etc. Certain cultures and family structures are also more likely to have accumulated wealth over generations, due to government policies that favored their culture and family structure over that of others. This translates to unequal legal opportunities in most everything.
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there is nothing about govt racism of the past that necessitated such a huge burst of single mom households in the last generation, the family unit was more intact in the 80s than it is now. The dependence created by increasing welfare is causing a failure to thrive.

Indian reservations a massive problem because they never should have happened but no one would want to end them now because of the false notion that this isolation is empowering to them now. It's continuing their problems.

The level best thing that could be done for everyone long term is adopt some (I think Frederick Douglas?) policy along the lines of "what is to be done with and for them? Nothing. We don't need anything from you. We are capable, leave us alone."
 
NITRAS said:
Sorry, but I don't care that non-person entities don't pay taxes. If a person working for said non-person entities takes money home, they get taxed.

Who pays the taxes on business? The answer is ultimately the consumer.
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Supposed I have a grocery business and earn $1M/year then use that 1M and borrow another 2M to expand my business. When I die, my kids inherit 100M. They can keep or sell the business. But they will pay no tax.
That's what Walmart family does.
Do you pay when using Facebook?
Do you know how much their interest rate is when they borrow money to expand their business?
 
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Lubeckd said:
Haven't done aws. VMware is more like virtual box. Can use a windows computer in a Mac. I didn't know that about Microsoft but I'm going after my aws cerf. Aws and devops are the hot word of late. And of course tech fades
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Microsoft Azure can run Windows OS in the cloud, so what's the advantage of VMware?
 
wagrxm2000 said:
Um thanks, just using a colleges tuition as an example. Substitute any other school.

Doesn't change the fact that without loans, tuition would still to this day be affordable.

The point is instead of making it free and continuing to pay these colleges all that money, it never should have offered loans in the first place.

Why does no one ever go after the colleges?
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For brilliant kids born into poor families, schools like HPY will graduate them free of charge. For decent kids born into poor families, there are thousands of community colleges that are highly affordable, and if they do well taking intro courses there, they can always transfer to top tier schools afterwards. Both routes are affordable and should not cost too much.

The real problem comes to dumb kids born into poor families who have big egos and can't get in HPY and refuse to go through community colleges.
 
CaNvWa farm said:
Supposed I have a grocery business and earn $1M/year then use that 1M and borrow another 2M to expand my business. When I die, my kids inherit 100M. They can keep or sell the business. But they will pay no tax.
That's what Walmart family does.
Do you pay when using Facebook?
Do you know how much their interest rate is when they borrow money to expand their business?
Click to expand...
Ever heard of inheritance tax? Jeez
 
pharmacy_sucks said:
For brilliant kids born into poor families, schools like HPY will graduate them free of charge. For decent kids born into poor families, there are thousands of community colleges that are highly affordable, and if they do well taking intro courses there, they can always transfer to top tier schools afterwards. Both routes are affordable and should not cost too much.

The real problem comes to dumb kids born into poor families who have big egos and can't get in HPY and refuse to go through community colleges.
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Again.... Those schools shouldn't need to do this though.

HPY would never have their extremely high tuitions if we never started student loans in the first place.

Tuition would be $5k at the best schools and like $2.5k at public schools.

Instead we get insane student debt levels.
 
CaNvWa farm said:
Supposed I have a grocery business and earn $1M/year then use that 1M and borrow another 2M to expand my business. When I die, my kids inherit 100M. They can keep or sell the business. But they will pay no tax.
That's what Walmart family does.
Do you pay when using Facebook?
Do you know how much their interest rate is when they borrow money to expand their business?
Click to expand...
So? There shouldn't be an inheritance tax
 
wagrxm2000 said:
Again.... Those schools shouldn't need to do this though.

HPY would never have their extremely high tuitions if we never started student loans in the first place.

Tuition would be $5k at the best schools and like $2.5k at public schools.

Instead we get insane student debt levels.
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It's all supply and demand. HPY charge this much yet they still receive record application counts year after year. They are private institutions so they have every right to charge whatever they want.

Based on your logic, pharmacists should all work for free so that the public can get dirt cheap health care lol.
 
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giga said:
Culture and family structure evolved from slavery, mass displacement, mass murders, and even to this day, mass incarceration, Indian reservations, etc. Do you think variables like culture and family structure are not influenced by government power?

As a result of how the US was created, certain "cultures and family structures" are more likely to live in safety, have more privacy, receive leniency in criminal proceedings/receive "second chances", be given the benefit of the doubt by authorities, etc. Certain cultures and family structures are also more likely to have accumulated wealth over generations, due to government policies that favored their culture and family structure over that of others. This translates to unequal legal opportunities in most everything.
Click to expand...

Your entire opinion is absurd. There is absolutely no reason I should be punished because I happened to be born from a lower class family?

My parents worked hard to support us and I decided to achieve even more.

Instead of giving handouts people need to put in the work themselves.

There's a reason they say the poor live better lives then the middle class, they are given so many handouts that it's not worth moving up to the middle class. Why give up the $30k in benefits people get in some states?
 
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pharmacy_sucks said:
It's all supply and demand. HPY charge this much yet they still receive record application counts year after year. They are private institutions so they have every right to charge whatever they want.

Based on your logic, pharmacists should all work for free so that the public can get dirt cheap health care lol.
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You are missing the whole point. Colleges would not have the applications needed to support their tuition without student loans.
 
wagrxm2000 said:
You are missing the whole point. Colleges would not have the applications needed to support their tuition without student loans.
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Do you know how many applications HPY receive just from international students, who are willing to pay 2x, 3x or maybe even 10x of what they charge now just for an acceptance letter? I personally still think HPY can charge much more than current level.
 
College tuitions (and some colleges themselves) are propped up artifically by the government handing out $200k+ in student loans to anyone with a pulse. Colleges can charge as much as the students are willing to borrow.
 
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pharmacy_sucks said:
Do you know how many applications HPY receive just from international students, who are willing to pay 2x, 3x or maybe even 10x of what they charge now just for an acceptance letter? I personally still think HPY can charge much more than current level.
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What does that have to do with the 5000 or so other colleges?

I'm not only talking about HPY, I'm talking about all colleges.
 
stoichiometrist said:
College tuitions (and some colleges themselves) are propped up artifically by the government handing out $200k+ in student loans to anyone with a pulse. Colleges can charge as much as the students are willing to borrow.
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Thank you this guy gets it
 
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wagrxm2000 said:
What does that have to do with the 5000 or so other colleges?

I'm not only talking about HPY, I'm talking about all colleges.
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Community colleges are dirty cheap. Many state universities are not expensive either. Online degrees are highly affordable too. There are lots of cheap ways to get high quality education at top schools, so what do you mean?
 
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pharmacy_sucks said:
Community colleges are dirty cheap. Many state universities are not expensive either. Online degrees are highly affordable too. There are lots of cheap ways to get high quality education at top schools, so what do you mean?
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The average state school tuition is $10k in state and $25k out of state. That's not cheap.

If it was cheap, a loan wouldn't be needed.
 
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CaNvWa farm said:
All I'm trying to say is the laws suck.
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No, I think it's very fair. If I work my ass off and want to pass my fortune to my kids, I wouldn't want government to take my blood sweat and tears away and subsidize for people who never did a thing in life.
 
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pharmacy_sucks said:
No, I think it's very fair. If I work my ass off and want to pass my fortune to my kids, I wouldn't want government to take my blood sweat and tears away and subsidize for people who never did a thing in life.
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They don't work their ass off. They use money to make laws that make them rich.
 
wagrxm2000 said:
The average state school tuition is $10k in state and $25k out of state. That's not cheap.

If it was cheap, a loan wouldn't be needed.
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I am from CA, so I am biased to my geographic location and economic environment. UC Berkeley charges about the number you mentioned for their EECS program, and many of their grads are able to graduate debt free or shortly afterwards, cuz they work summer internships and get hired by high tech companies. 10k a year is not a big number, really.
 
CaNvWa farm said:
They don't work their ass off. They use money to make laws that make them rich.
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at worst the laws have loopholes to stop the govt from stealing so much of their earnings

It doesn't matter if the "worked their ass off" or not, their earning should be left alone just like yours
 
pharmacy_sucks said:
I am from CA, so I am biased to my geographic location and economic environment. UC Berkeley charges about the number you mentioned for their EECS program, and many of their grads are able to graduate debt free or shortly afterwards, cuz they work summer internships and get hired by high tech companies. 10k a year is not a big number, really.
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If that were the case for the average American we wouldn't have 1.5 trillion student debt

If tuition ran at inflation like it would have without loans. We'd have in state at 2.5k and out of state at 5k.
 
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Lubeckd said:
Lol this is so the first time. It means I'm disapproving the point of hard work. Many factors come into getting out of poverty. Using your time to make money is not always smart if you don't have the financial education to get rich
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I guess my question is more specifically, what do you want to be done about it?
 
sb247 said:
I guess my question is more specifically, what do you want to be done about it?
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Nothing. Just stating that being born in the right place, have right parents. Betting and gambling your life and sacrificing your time/delay grafication. And working hard on the right job/opening your own business can help you get rich. Else someone working a minimum wage job won't get rich. Even as a pharmacist to become a millionaire
 
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Lubeckd said:
Nothing. Just stating that being born in the right place, have right parents. Betting and gambling your life and sacrificing your time/delay grafication. And working hard on the right job/opening your own business can help you get rich. Else someone working a minimum wage job won't get rich. Even as a pharmacist to become a millionaire
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I agree with you on multiple paths to doing well in this country
 
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wagrxm2000 said:
Your entire opinion is absurd. There is absolutely no reason I should be punished because I happened to be born from a lower class family? (1)

My parents worked hard to support us and I decided to achieve even more. (2)

Instead of giving handouts people need to put in the work themselves. (3)

There's a reason they say the poor live better lives then the middle class, they are given so many handouts that it's not worth moving up to the middle class. Why give up the $30k in benefits people get in some states? (4)
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I love this post so much. Have you ever thought about writing for The Onion? They have articles I did not enjoy as much as I enjoyed this post.

1) The irony here is so rich I basically don't know what to say. I think you have to at least admit to yourself that the question "why should I be punished because <reasons>" is more applicable to minorities than it is to non-minorities?

2) That is awesome. My parents also worked hard to provide opportunities for me and objectively it worked. I am surprised more people don't decide to achieve even more like we did.

3) Do you support giving out bootstraps for people to pull themselves up with or do people need to provide their own?

4) I notice that the people who claim the poor have it so good never seem to give up their wealth and join the poor. Weird that. You would think that if they have it that good more people would want to join them.

Again I just love every line in your post. It's basically 10/10 for me. Keep up the strong work.
 
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wagrxm2000 said:
If that were the case for the average American we wouldn't have 1.5 trillion student debt

If tuition ran at inflation like it would have without loans. We'd have in state at 2.5k and out of state at 5k.
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That weren't the case for the average cuz the average American student majors in gender studies or psychology, which will never lead to a high paying job. When you make 100k a year postgrad, 50k student loan is not going to be a problem, but when you only make 20k to 30k, then it will be a major issue. It's not the amount that is concerning, but the debt/income ratio.
 
Lubeckd said:
Many people work their butt off and never get rich
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But there are also teenagers making hundreds of million dollars from their tech startups. Nothing is grown on the trees and handed out freely. Many Asian immigrants came to this country dirt poor and turned everything around. I know several like that personally who barely speaks much English and started from the very bottom working in restaurants and eventually had small business, mortgage etc. If they can make it, why the entitled Americans who speak perfect English and went to college can't make it?
 
Lubeckd said:
Nothing. Just stating that being born in the right place, have right parents. Betting and gambling your life and sacrificing your time/delay grafication. And working hard on the right job/opening your own business can help you get rich. Else someone working a minimum wage job won't get rich. Even as a pharmacist to become a millionaire
Click to expand...
Illegal Asian immigrants working in the restaurants kitchen as chef can make as much as 6k or 7k per month, and they live together in provided housing and food by the employers. If they live frugally, like many actually do, they can comfortably save 50k a year and send that money back. If they can do it, why can't the legal immigrants do it?
 
pharmacy_sucks said:
When Bernie looks up to the Scandinavia for healthcare and education, I think he should also looks up their youth unemployment numbers. They have freaking 20% youth unemployment, compared to US at only 8%. :rolleyes:

What's the freaking point of going to college and can't get a job? I think it's just a scam for left-wing professors teaching useless bullsh*t to keep getting their fat paycheck when they see their school enrollment numbers are down, so they want government to use taxpayers' money to pay them instead. Simply sick and disgusting.
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Despite a difference in how college tuition is paid, Finland, Norway and Sweden have better higher education system than USA because it is 100% based on merits
 
Rx1992 said:
Despite a difference in how college tuition is paid, Finland, Norway and Sweden have better higher education system than USA because it is 100% based on merits
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Everywhere outside of US is based on merits. I think US is the only country that active uses widespread affirmative action and "diversity" for their college admission.
 
pharmacy_sucks said:
Everywhere outside of US is based on merits. I think US is the only country that active uses widespread affirmative action and "diversity" for their college admission.
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And don’t forget legacy students, kids that have parents who donated to Harvard, etc. they get in despite a low GPA. Because 50% of students in Harvard are rich white kids
 
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pharmacy_sucks said:
Illegal Asian immigrants working in the restaurants kitchen as chef can make as much as 6k or 7k per month, and they live together in provided housing and food by the employers. If they live frugally, like many actually do, they can comfortably save 50k a year and send that money back. If they can do it, why can't the legal immigrants do it?
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Case and point. Born in the right country and move to right country.

www.theguardian.com

Coming out of the shadows: what it means to be French and Chinese

The long read: People of Chinese descent have long faced prejudice and violence in France. But today a new generation is staking out its rightful place in society
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
pharmacy_sucks said:
But there are also teenagers making hundreds of million dollars from their tech startups. Nothing is grown on the trees and handed out freely. Many Asian immigrants came to this country dirt poor and turned everything around. I know several like that personally who barely speaks much English and started from the very bottom working in restaurants and eventually had small business, mortgage etc. If they can make it, why the entitled Americans who speak perfect English and went to college can't make it?
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More often than not these startup fail 90 percent. That's the risk
 
Lubeckd said:
Case and point. Born in the right country and move to right country.

www.theguardian.com

Coming out of the shadows: what it means to be French and Chinese

The long read: People of Chinese descent have long faced prejudice and violence in France. But today a new generation is staking out its rightful place in society
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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Many were born in the wrong country but moved to the right country. They worked their butt off and were patient and relentless. There are so many examples of that. 1st gen Chinese or Korean or Vietnamese or Filipino or Indian immigrants are almost all like that, so many beggars to millionaire stories. Just look around~
 
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