This sums up how I feel about student loan forgiveness

[Lubeckd]

Most startups burn money provided by venture capitals, and both parties know the risk well before starting that.

Well you got to be able to really sell yourself then. raising money isn't easy. Many go through the 90
Percent fail phase

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[pharmacy_sucks]

Well you got to be able to really sell yourself then. raising money isn't easy. Many go through the 90
Percent fail phase

People who do startups are usually the type of super ambitious and capable individuals. Many are very young so failure for them is never a bad thing, and I think many of them acknowledge that these days.

 

[Emmet2301]

Everywhere outside of US is based on merits. I think US is the only country that active uses widespread affirmative action and "diversity" for their college admission.

Ya not quite. Look at how unequal the education system is in China. Usually only the rich kids get into the top universities there.

Also, look at how much affirmative action India uses in its college system.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I love this post so much. Have you ever thought about writing for The Onion? They have articles I did not enjoy as much as I enjoyed this post.

1) The irony here is so rich I basically don't know what to say. I think you have to at least admit to yourself that the question "why should I be punished because <reasons>" is more applicable to minorities than it is to non-minorities?

2) That is awesome. My parents also worked hard to provide opportunities for me and objectively it worked. I am surprised more people don't decide to achieve even more like we did.

3) Do you support giving out bootstraps for people to pull themselves up with or do people need to provide their own?

4) I notice that the people who claim the poor have it so good never seem to give up their wealth and join the poor. Weird that. You would think that if they have it that good more people would want to join them.

Again I just love every line in your post. It's basically 10/10 for me. Keep up the strong work.

1) you misunderstood me completely

4) you can give up your wealth whenever you want. Also this isn't a claim. All those handouts add up and isn't taxed.

It's sad you find my families story of hard work and getting out of poverty and then myself achieving what I have to be humorous. I will pray for you tonight.

 

[pharmacy_sucks]

Ya not quite. Look at how unequal the education system is in China. Usually only the rich kids get into the top universities there.

Also, look at how much affirmative action India uses in its college system.

These two countries are probably the "fairest" nations in terms of college admission lol. Yes, there are probably senior officials sons and daughters attending top institutions, but that's the least minority. India has JEE Advanced exam for IITs, and China has Gaokao for their colleges. If you score high enough, nobody can deny you a seat.

Ivy league schools are facing class action lawsuit from Asian students btw for having vastly higher standardized test scores and GPAs yet still rejected left and right, whereas similar stats from a black student will get accepted and have scholarships everywhere.

 

[owlegrad]

It's sad you find my families story of hard work and getting out of poverty and then myself achieving what I have to be humorous. I will pray for you tonight.

What will those prayers be for?

Edit: why would I give up my wealth? I am not the one claiming that the poor have it better than the middle class!

 

[BMBiology]

Ya not quite. Look at how unequal the education system is in China. Usually only the rich kids get into the top universities there.

Also, look at how much affirmative action India uses in its college system.

This is inaccurate. Like Japan and South Korea, China requires you to take a college entrance exam. Whether you get in or not, depends on this exam. Rich or poor kids...it doesn’t matter.

NYC also has an exam based admission for their elite high schools.

 

[wagrxm2000]

What will those prayers be for?

Edit: why would I give up my wealth? I am not the one claiming that the poor have it better than the middle class!

Because you want to steal from the rich and give to the poor.

There's nothing stopping you or all the other Democrats from doing it now on your own. There are plenty of charities to give to. I can give you the charity my family donates to if you want it.

Did you look up the amount of handouts those in poverty receive? It's a pretty good amount isn't it?

 

[deleted480308]

This is inaccurate. Like Japan and South Korea, China requires you to take a college entrance exam. Whether you get in or not, depends on this exam. Rich or poor kids...it doesn’t matter.

NYC also has an exam based admission for their elite high schools.

as an asise, diblasio wanted to kill the test because he didn’t like the racial demographics of who was getting in to the best schools

 

[owlegrad]

Because you want to steal from the rich and give to the poor.

There's nothing stopping you or all the other Democrats from doing it now on your own. There are plenty of charities to give to. I can give you the charity my family donates to if you want it.

Did you look up the amount of handouts those in poverty receive? It's a pretty good amount isn't it?

ah your favorite fallacy. No I want to address the issue at the societal level, not just help out one or two people. I appreciate that you’re consistent in your disingenuity though. 7/10, your earlier work was stronger.

My favorite scripted prayer is the serenity prayer. It’s probably a little weird to pray for that for someone else but if you’re excepting prayer request for me will you make it that one?

 

[wagrxm2000]

ah your favorite fallacy. No I want to address the issue at the societal level, not just help out one or two people. I appreciate that you’re consistent in your disingenuity though. 7/10, your earlier work was stronger.

My favorite scripted prayer is the serenity prayer. It’s probably a little weird to pray for that for someone else but if you’re excepting prayer request for me will you make it that one?

Why do you need half the population?

I too remember your responses since I've brought this up many times. Every time you brush it to the side.

There is absolutely nothing stopping every Democrat from donating 25% of their income to charity right now.

 

[deleted562805]

These two countries are probably the "fairest" nations in terms of college admission lol. Yes, there are probably senior officials sons and daughters attending top institutions, but that's the least minority. India has JEE Advanced exam for IITs, and China has Gaokao for their colleges. If you score high enough, nobody can deny you a seat.

Ivy league schools are facing class action lawsuit from Asian students btw for having vastly higher standardized test scores and GPAs yet still rejected left and right, whereas similar stats from a black student will get accepted and have scholarships everywhere.

Yeah it is unfair. This has happened because the 50% white kids and half of them are legacy students feel threatened by the Asians who are scoring better than them. UC schools and Stanford rejected affirmative action, and those schools in CA are dominated by Asians.

 

[deleted480308]

Yeah it is unfair. This has happened because the 50% white kids and half of them are legacy students feel threatened by the Asians who are scoring better than them. UC schools and Stanford rejected affirmative action, and those schools in CA are dominated by Asians.

and if they are scoring better, that's how it should be

 

[confettiflyer]

Yeah it is unfair. This has happened because the 50% white kids and half of them are legacy students feel threatened by the Asians who are scoring better than them. UC schools and Stanford rejected affirmative action, and those schools in CA are dominated by Asians.

Point of order, UC schools didn’t reject affirmative action, it was removed by voters in 1996 by a healthy 55% majority (Prop. 209, 1996).


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[deleted562805]

and if they are scoring better, that's how it should be

I agree if Asians are scoring better then the white legacy student, then they should get in, not because of their race.

 

[owlegrad]

Why do you need half the population?

I too remember your responses since I've brought this up many times. Every time you brush it to the side.

There is absolutely nothing stopping every Democrat from donating 25% of their income to charity right now.

Every democrat donating 25% of their income to charity wouldn’t not accomplish the goal though. And you have to know that and you are disingenuous to continue to try to imply that they should.

Why do you suggest that, knowing it is dishonest?

 

[wagrxm2000]

Every democrat donating 25% of their income to charity wouldn’t not accomplish the goal though. And you have to know that and you are disingenuous to continue to try to imply that they should.

Why do you suggest that, knowing it is dishonest?

Last I checked, Bernie doesn't even want to increase taxes on the rich by that much. How wouldn't it help? You could always just donate it to colleges and they could give you the free college you want.

The other half of America doesn't want free college, we want the government out of it completely so it makes college affordable on its own.

I go to my college all the time and that place just gets nicer by the day and yet they still keep asking for more money. I can't believe the amount of building they have been doing recently.

 

[deleted480308]

Every democrat donating 25% of their income to charity wouldn’t not accomplish the goal though. And you have to know that and you are disingenuous to continue to try to imply that they should.

Why do you suggest that, knowing it is dishonest?

They seem to be pointing out the hypocrisy of making claims to other people’s money when the thief isn’t doing the same with their own money

 

[owlegrad]

They seem to be pointing out the hypocrisy of making claims to other people’s money when the thief isn’t doing the same with their own money

There is a lot of assumption in that claim. First, we don’t know how much the people give to charity, it may we’ll be >25%. Second, and the point I keep trying to articulate is that it is NOT about charity. Giving or not giving to charity is totally pointless to the conversation. Might as well ask if they even lift, bro.

 

[wagrxm2000]

There is a lot of assumption in that claim. First, we don’t know how much the people give to charity, it may we’ll be >25%. Second, and the point I keep trying to articulate is that it is NOT about charity. Giving or not giving to charity is totally pointless to the conversation. Might as well ask if they even lift, bro.

How so?

You can donate all you want to your college.

No one is stopping you guys from making college free right now.

 

[deleted480308]

There is a lot of assumption in that claim. First, we don’t know how much the people give to charity, it may we’ll be >25%. Second, and the point I keep trying to articulate is that it is NOT about charity. Giving or not giving to charity is totally pointless to the conversation.

But we do know that the huge majority of those who want to raise federal income taxes on the wealthier people in order to pay for all their social welfare desires are absolutely not paying that much in federal income taxes.

That’s not an assumption

 

[owlegrad]

How so?

You can donate all you want to your college.

No one is stopping you guys from making college free right now.

Free for everyone or just free for the people we choose (and are able) to pay for?

Do you think those two things are equivalent?

 

[wagrxm2000]

Free for everyone or just free for the people we choose (and are able) to pay for?

Do you think those two things are equivalent?

Pretty sure 98.7% of students are Democrat anyways.

 

[Lubeckd]

More tech layoff today

 

[deleted898085]

Pretty sure 98.7% of students are Democrat anyways.

Wow I didn't know this

 

[wagrxm2000]

Wow I didn't know this

Sorry that was a joke based on they all want free college and their loans forgiven.

 

[mentos]

Sorry that was a joke based on they all want free college and their loans forgiven.

And $15/hr minimum wage.

 

[MrBonita]

The purpose of student loans is to create a 25 to 30 year slave. Once you owe all that money you have to contribute to society and work and get off the damn welfare and food stamps.

 

[mentos]

The purpose of student loans is to create a 25 to 30 year slave. Once you owe all that money you have to contribute to society and work and get off the damn welfare and food stamps.

Or you could just pay them off in 3 years like many of us here have.

 

[Sine Cura]

If getting people off social welfare is the goal then California is the biggest FOAT.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Even if you make the $1.6 trillion loans just "disappear" you would still get inflation. All the debtors will suddenly have more disposable income to spend on houses and consumer goods which drives up prices.

This would be another middle finger to those who paid off their student loans and saved their hard earned money only to see its value eroded.

 

[confettiflyer]

Even if you make the $1.6 trillion loans just "disappear" you would still get inflation. All the debtors will suddenly have more disposable income to spend on houses and consumer goods which drives up prices.

Thank God we’ve been looking for that missing inflation for the last decade.


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[Mad Jack]

Just because you got screwed doesn't mean everyone else should too

 

[deleted480308]

Just because you got screwed doesn't mean everyone else should too

It’s not “getting screwed” to knowingly sign up for a loan with clear terms and be expected to pay the terms

 

[BMBiology]

Just because you got screwed doesn't mean everyone else should too
View attachment 296742

I can understand if they make some changes moving forward but I don’t agree with taxing others so you can retroactively forgive loans that have already been taken out and spent.

 

[Mad Jack]

I can understand if they make some changes moving forward but I don’t agree with taxing others so you can retroactively forgive loans that have already been taken out and spent.

You don't have to tax others. You can just forgive the loans and write off that revenue stream. No one would have to pay a cent, as the money has already been distributed.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Those who did pay off their loans early do get screwed either way since we would all pay more taxes and/or pay more for goods and services as their would be more money in circulation. Those who get their loans forgiven would have a greater proportion of the money supply than previously whereas those who did not would have less.

The economy as a whole isn't getting something for nothing here.

 

[BMBiology]

You don't have to tax others. You can just forgive the loans and write off that revenue stream. No one would have to pay a cent, as the money has already been distributed.

You are joking right? Nothing is free in this world, even Bernie knows that. That is why he is proposing a tax to pay for it.

So my bank can just forgive my mortgage and they would not have to take a loss? Because the money has already been distributed?

 

[BMBiology]

Those who did pay off their loans early do get screwed either way since we would all pay more taxes and/or pay more for goods and services as their would be more money in circulation. Those who get their loans forgiven would have a greater proportion of the money supply than previously whereas those who did not would have less.

The economy as a whole isn't getting something for nothing here.

Yes and more pharmacy schools will open and the job market will even be more saturated.

You get hit with a tax. It might not matter because you won’t be able to find work as a pharmacist anyways.

 

[Mad Jack]

If $1.6 Trillion Of Student Loan Debt Is Forgiven, This Is What Happens

What happens if all $1.6 trillion of student loan debt is forgiven?

www.google.com

The total cost is 0.4% of GDP, which would more than be outweighed by increased tax revenue

 

[WVUPharm2007]

Just because you got screwed doesn't mean everyone else should too
View attachment 296742

Not really an apt analogy. It implies there is finality in those that paid loans. You'd also need a path that branches off of the path with no humans tied down that has some sort of machine that makes the killed humans repaired and made whole again. And in this hypothetical scenario, you are choosing to avoid the humans at risk, but do nothing about the humans that were already run over when something COULD be done to help them, too.

Having the government apply tax credits to those that paid student loans for a period of time consummate to the amount they paid in loans would be the obvious way in which this could be rectified.

That's what those people are angry about. Literally if they would have been financially irresponsible, they would have gotten more ahead in life than if they would have just been responsible.

 

[BMBiology]

If $1.6 Trillion Of Student Loan Debt Is Forgiven, This Is What Happens

What happens if all $1.6 trillion of student loan debt is forgiven?

www.google.com

The total cost is 0.4% of GDP, which would more than be outweighed by increased tax revenue

Why would I and other Americans want to pay a tax so your $1.6T in student loans would be forgiven? Keep in mind the majority of loans are own by a household with a graduate degree...many of them make 6 figures.

Why don’t we also forgive auto debt while we are at it. It is only $1.3T.

 

[BMBiology]

Just because you got screwed doesn't mean everyone else should too
View attachment 296742

I still don’t get how did I or you got screwed over? We were a college graduate when we decided to take on student loans for graduate school. I had 6 figures and I paid them off in a few years. I can certainly afford it. I have made well over $1.5M working as a pharmacist.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

I still don’t get how did I or you got screwed over? We were a college graduate when we decided to take on student loans for graduate school. I had 6 figures and I paid them off in a few years. I can certainly afford it. I have made well over $1.5M working as a pharmacist.

This is actually a good point. This is really just a massive give away to the upper middle class. That there is no means test is sort of ridiculous.

 

[wagrxm2000]

I still don't know why this keeps coming up.

Once again this cannot happen without Congress approval. Which clause in the Constitution allows a president to simply give away money?

Also once again, fix the problem at the source. All forgiveness and free education will do is put more money into colleges. Loans should be not allowed so tuition can become affordable once again.

Finally tax money also has to be approved by Congress, Bernie can't simply move tax revenue to fund his proposals. There's a reason Trump can't get his budget passed.

I really hope no one is being bamboozled into voting for Bernie for all his promises that he can't pull through with.

 

[mentos]

Just because you got screwed doesn't mean everyone else should too
View attachment 296742

This analogy makes no sense. People who paid off their loans are getting screwed. Who are these other people you're referring to, the ones that are getting their loans forgiven? They're not getting screwed at all.

What a terrible comparison.

 

[mentos]

I really hope no one is being bamboozled into voting for Bernie for all his promises that he can't pull through with.

Do you remember how ignorant the average American is? How many people voted for Trump for his promises to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it, reverse Obamacare etc? People hear "free college" and put "Feel the Bern" signs on their lawn.

 

[confettiflyer]

I still don't know why this keeps coming up.

Once again this cannot happen without Congress approval. Which clause in the Constitution allows a president to simply give away money?

Also once again, fix the problem at the source. All forgiveness and free education will do is put more money into colleges. Loans should be not allowed so tuition can become affordable once again.

Finally tax money also has to be approved by Congress, Bernie can't simply move tax revenue to fund his proposals. There's a reason Trump can't get his budget passed.

I really hope no one is being bamboozled into voting for Bernie for all his promises that he can't pull through with.

Okay I figured it out. This is how it can be done.

Obama introduced a 10% IDR program by executive order.

Bernie or whoever can introduce a 1% IDR plan by executive order with NO loan forgiveness attached.

The balance of the loan would come due at the time of the borrower’s death and charged to the estate of the decedent.

So no more bitching about people not paying their loans back


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[Mad Jack]

Not really an apt analogy. It implies there is finality in those that paid loans. You'd also need a path that branches off of the path with no humans tied down that has some sort of machine that makes the killed humans repaired and made whole again. And in this hypothetical scenario, you are choosing to avoid the humans at risk, but do nothing about the humans that were already run over when something COULD be done to help them, too.

Having the government apply tax credits to those that paid student loans for a period of time consummate to the amount they paid in loans would be the obvious way in which this could be rectified.

That's what those people are angry about. Literally if they would have been financially irresponsible, they would have gotten more ahead in life than if they would have just been responsible.

Tax credits require an actual outlay. Since current collections are largely used to fund future distributions of loans, if the government stops offering loans entirely it is a bit of a wash. If they give out tax credits, that could cost other non-loan programs a lot.

 

[Mad Jack]

This analogy makes no sense. People who paid off their loans are getting screwed. Who are these other people you're referring to, the ones that are getting their loans forgiven? They're not getting screwed at all.

What a terrible comparison.

The only other fiscally viable option would be to continue the current system without forgiveness. Paying people back is going to screw someone (how far back do you go etc) and costs actual revenue to do, unlike loan forgiveness, which could largely be budget neutral if the government stops offering loans altogether