Temple or Jefferson (2011)

[PotentialDoc123]

I've been accepted to both Temple and Jefferson and cannot decide which one to choose. Can anyone please help? ... If you've also had to make this decision, which did you choose and why?

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[ProtossCarrier]

temple because ABCDEFG of board prep, Dr. E.F.Goljan graduated there.

He also did his residency at Reading, PA, I am gonna do it there too.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

temple because ABCDEFG of board prep, Dr. E.F.Goljan graduated there.

He also did his residency at Reading, PA, I am gonna do it there too.

Considering that Goljan has said that he knew nothing about some subjects (biochem, I think?) on Step 1 when he took it and had no idea how he passed, that may not be a good recommendation.

 

[quepatho]

Considering that Goljan has said that he knew nothing about some subjects (biochem, I think?) on Step 1 when he took it and had no idea how he passed, that may not be a good recommendation.

Hahaha. Go to the cheaper one.

 

[OveractiveBrain]

Summary
Jefferson
- Nice part of philly (safe, pretty)
- Insured patients (limits your interaction, SEE cool stuff)
- more private world exposure, less soul-filling
- Education good, not as good as temple

Temple
- Worst part of philly (not safe, ugly)
- Uninsured Patients (lots of interaction, DO cool stuff)
- More soul-filling, ridden with barriers
- Education better, new medical education center, etc.

Style and location
Jefferson is the really nice hospital in the cozy side of town. If you enjoy luxury and limited exposure (i.e. you want to be a private attending at some crap hospital making lots of money doing a poor job) go to Jefferson. Jefferson also has more tertiary work done than Temple (as in, patient is already diagnosed, but lets do some cool procedure that costs an ass-load because the dude has insurance).

Temple is in the worst area of philly, way north. It's the "University Hospital" of the city. This is where the sickest patients go. It is often where there are first time diagnosis made (so it exposes you to the process of medicine). There are fewer cool procedures, and more first time diagnoses made. If you want to feel the pride of curing the sick, healing the ailing, but suffering yourself through beauacracy, limited resources, and lack of patient education, go to Temple.

Education
Hands down Temple wins. They've got their brand new medical education building, they host medical education events, its bigger, and its got a better faculty staff.

Jefferson will get you the education. Hell, Ross will get you the education. Temple does it the right way, and is pushing the forefront of new medical education techniques.

No. I attend neither Temple nor Jefferson

 

[jmst]

I'm also deciding between Temple and Jefferson. I would love to hear other opinions. I have heard really good things about both schools and the students seem to be happy at both.

 

[Geekchick921]

Hahaha. Go to the cheaper one.

Sadly, they are both nearly $45k/year for IS students.

I agree a lot with the last response. Temple's in a bad part of town (one of the worst, no question) but you see a lot there because of it. Jeff was, hands down, my first choice school going in, but I wasn't sure how much it was right for me, even though everyone was very welcoming and nice. Then I absolutely fell in love with Temple at my interview there. I just felt like it clicked for me. I got WLed at Jeff but haven't really tried to get off it since I was accepted to Temple outright.

I know this is a common question but I got such a different vibe from the two schools I have to wonder if you did like one better, OP. I have lived in this area all my life and work at a local hospital and FWIW, all the doctors I've talked about my school choices all seem to think Temple is the better school now (though they said before they would have said Jeff). But either one is a great choice, obviously. GL with whatever you decide!

 

[BOOYA18]

you should all choose to go to Jeff! it is the best school ever, ever. and that way, I can make it off the waitlist at the worst school ever, Temple. (sarcasm, except for that part where you should go to jeff)

 

[Hamels]

I work at Jefferson and have been accepted to Temple so I think my advice should be taken well. Residency programs do not like Jefferson students because they don't know how to do anything and love Temple students because they do more (in terms of patient interaction, pulling bullets out of gun wounds, etc.) than students from just about any other medical school in the nation. "Jefferson students are really unimpressive." Direct quote from a fellow with whom I work. If you don't care about getting into a good residency program and are terrified of North Philadelphia, go to Jefferson. Otherwise, Temple is much better.

 

[boggvir]

I work at Jefferson and have been accepted to Temple so I think my advice should be taken well. Residency programs do not like Jefferson students because they don't know how to do anything and love Temple students because they do more (in terms of patient interaction, pulling bullets out of gun wounds, etc.) than students from just about any other medical school in the nation. "Jefferson students are really unimpressive." Direct quote from a fellow with whom I work. If you don't care about getting into a good residency program and are terrified of North Philadelphia, go to Jefferson. Otherwise, Temple is much better.

That is ridiculous and certainly not reflected by actual objective data. For example, it's not reflected by looking at the match list.


And more importantly, it's not reflected by the RESIDENCY DIRECTORS THEMSELVES. According to a US NEWS survey of residency directors, they rate Jefferson as HIGHER than temple, so if anything the statement should be reversed (though in reality, the rankings by program directors are close enough to not matter). I have no idea how you can make a blanket statement like 'if you don't care about getting into a good residency program, go to Jeff'. It's so ludicrous.

My advice: go where you like. If you like living on campus, go to Jeff. If you don't mind a commute, then you can pick either school. They both have new buildings but Temple's is bigger/more shiny. You'll get a good education at either place.

 

[reddoc]

Once again we see the problem with these questions. Trust your own judgment, talk with local doctors but do not listen to the ramblings of complete strangers. You have no idea who these people are or what their motivation is.

 

[RomanCandle]

I work at Jefferson and have been accepted to Temple so I think my advice should be taken well. Residency programs do not like Jefferson students because they don't know how to do anything and love Temple students because they do more (in terms of patient interaction, pulling bullets out of gun wounds, etc.) than students from just about any other medical school in the nation. "Jefferson students are really unimpressive." Direct quote from a fellow with whom I work. If you don't care about getting into a good residency program and are terrified of North Philadelphia, go to Jefferson. Otherwise, Temple is much better.

This seems ridiculous.

I'll be going to Temple and living in Center City (with a Jeff student), so it isn't like you need to worry about living in North Philly. Just pick whichever school you got better vibes from on your interview day and/or 2nd look. Good luck, maybe I'll be seeing you this summer.

 

[PotentialDoc123]

Thank you everyone for your advice. Both schools are great and I feel very fortunate to have been accepted to them. Both have such wonderful things to offer in terms of academics and overall experience, so it's been very tough trying to make the final decision. I greatly appreciate the insight that you've all offered.

In terms of safety, I realize that North Philly is not the best place to be in the city, but does anyone have an idea of what it's like to be in med school at temple and commute at night from the campus to center city?

Thank you again!

 

[Geekchick921]

Don't travel alone at night, even if you're just walking to Erie station. I would think you will usually have other students commuting down to CC with you, but if not I know you can request a Temple security escort to the station.

 

[boggvir]

Thank you everyone for your advice. Both schools are great and I feel very fortunate to have been accepted to them. Both have such wonderful things to offer in terms of academics and overall experience, so it's been very tough trying to make the final decision. I greatly appreciate the insight that you've all offered.

In terms of safety, I realize that North Philly is not the best place to be in the city, but does anyone have an idea of what it's like to be in med school at temple and commute at night from the campus to center city?

Thank you again!

Generally commute to and from center city is safer than the other way around, however, if its very late at night, you may want an escort to the station as GeekChick suggested, if you feel uncomfortable.

I've used it late at night without an issue but if you're not used to living in the inner city, I can understand how it could be a little bit intimidating. The main thing is just to be aware of your surroundings.

Or you can come to Jeff and live right on campus in center city .

 

[QueenTut]

What's the class size comparison? Jeff has a HUGE class, ~260 students. Some see it as a good thing, I personally was put off by it. I also thought that they were strangely lacking in diversity given their class size and location (in Philly). My own experience with Jeff has been mixed- I LOVE the Dir. of Admissions and the dean, but my student interviewer, not so much. I have quite a few friends who attend Jefferson, and only one of them is really enthusiastic about the school. The others are either indifferent or unhappy. Granted, these are only a few experiences out of over 1000 (appr. # of med students at Jeff at any give time). And i'll say that the students that were giving the tour and running the interview session seemed happy.

As far as your career goes, I really don't think you could go wrong with either one. And I wouldn't worry too much about the neighborhood surrounding Temple: like other's said, you def. don't have to live in North Philly. Besides, some great schools are in the hood- Johns Hopkins comes to mind :-D

I'd say go to the school where you feel most comfortable.

 

[mdeast]

This seems ridiculous.

I'll be going to Temple and living in Center City (with a Jeff student), so it isn't like you need to worry about living in North Philly. Just pick whichever school you got better vibes from on your interview day and/or 2nd look. Good luck, maybe I'll be seeing you this summer.

I'm from Philly and was interviewed/accepted at both. Some thoughts.

- In general, I always got the sense that among the medical schools in Philadelphia the general reputation is generally 1. UPenn 2. Jefferson 3. Temple 4. Drexel.
-Temple has a beautiful new medical education building, good hospital exposure, great ER program, really nice students.
-Temple is pretty lacking as a tertiary care center. There are better docs in subspecialties at Jeff.
-Temple has a grading system (Honors, High Pass, Pass, Low Pass, Fail, etc.) for their pre clin curriculum and only a certain percentage of students can obtain each grade. Jeff has H/P/F and anyone can receive Honors regardless of the performance of the rest of the class.
-Locations are different, but you can live in Center City going to either one.
-Both are expensive.
-Temple has a smaller class size.
-Research isn't great at either, but may be slightly better at Jeff than at Temple.

 

[Lokhtar]

I think temple has better research for sure - it's attached to a full university after all - especially basic research. Clinical and translational research could be better at Jefff.

Temple is also a big class.

Whatever you decide, I think some of the postsearler were just so completely wrong that its pretty disgraceful to be honest. Look at the match lists. Look at the residency director ratings from US News.I'm certainly not goin to spread lies about Temple.

I am partial to Jeff but to imply that you'll be a crappy doctor if you goto Jeff is sickening (especially as residency directors rate Jeff students slightly higher than temple).

Temple is a great school. So is Jeff. I've been lucky to be accepted to both (and I'm just leaning towards Jeff). My reasoning for going to Jeff:

1. I like the idea of not having to commute.
2. The medical education building at temple is amazing but I like the hosp. better at Jeff
3. I like Friday exams at Jeff - every third or fourth weekend completely off after an exam (also day off before the exam to study).
4. It's H/P/F, but 90% is H - you're not competing with others for it (theoretically 0-100% of people can get honors)
5. As 3rd and 4th years Jeff students tend to get more clinical training (very tough - have to be there before residents etc - prepares them well)
6. If you're into research or public health, they have a new program (college within a college with two tracks...clinical/translational research or public health) which sets you up with a mentor and allows you to do work and have guidance within four years without extra time or $$...great thing. Also a public health school opened up on campus and you can apply some of those credits towards an MPH if you want to spend a year doing that.
7. Not worried about safety - best part of town, lots of things to do

Things that drew me to Temple:

1. Ability to do last 2 years at several locations (doing it at Pitt was especially enticing since I would love to be near my sister).
2. It's pass fail now for first 2 years.
3. Good exposure to a low income population
4. Great new building.
5. They seem to be really involved in the community.
6. They are moving up the rankings in research if you are interested in that, and they have an undergrad university nearby so there are pluses and minuses with that.

I went to both second looks and people at both are fantastic and both places are fantastic. Can we not write unsubstantiated stuff, especially horrible things like some of the posters did, without some proof? "Crappy residencies and crappy doctors"...really? Come on.

You can have your own plusses and minuses and choose Temple over Jeff, and that's great. You'll do great and be a great physician and achieve your career goals. But so will the kids going to Jeff.

Make your decisions on where you feel comfortable and what fits you best. Don't worry about not being able to be competent if you pick one school over another.....

 

[mdeast]

I work at Jefferson and have been accepted to Temple so I think my advice should be taken well. Residency programs do not like Jefferson students because they don't know how to do anything and love Temple students because they do more (in terms of patient interaction, pulling bullets out of gun wounds, etc.) than students from just about any other medical school in the nation. "Jefferson students are really unimpressive." Direct quote from a fellow with whom I work. If you don't care about getting into a good residency program and are terrified of North Philadelphia, go to Jefferson. Otherwise, Temple is much better.

I'd also agree with other people on here and say that this post is completely ridiculous.

 

[DonutShot]

I'm from Philly and was interviewed/accepted at both. Some thoughts.

- In general, I always got the sense that among the medical schools in Philadelphia the general reputation is generally 1. UPenn 2. Jefferson 3. Temple 4. Drexel.
-Temple has a beautiful new medical education building, good hospital exposure, great ER program, really nice students.
-Temple is pretty lacking as a tertiary care center. There are better docs in subspecialties at Jeff.
-Temple has a grading system (Honors, High Pass, Pass, Low Pass, Fail, etc.) for their pre clin curriculum and only a certain percentage of students can obtain each grade. Jeff has H/P/F and anyone can receive Honors regardless of the performance of the rest of the class.
-Locations are different, but you can live in Center City going to either one.
-Both are expensive.
-Temple has a smaller class size.
-Research isn't great at either, but may be slightly better at Jeff than at Temple.

I think Temple may have changed this. From what I remember at my interview its just a cut off like you need to have higher than a 90% to get Honors, etc. and that the cutoff score will never be raised and is based on class performance (for example if people do poorly compared to the historical avg. they may lower the cutoff to get Honors, but if you do better than historical avg. they will not raise the cutoff). So my impression was that theoretically, everyone could get Honors at Temple if they wanted to.

Overall, if anyone goes to Temple or Jefferson and doesn't end up doing what they want then the blame falls purely on themselves.

 

[Geekchick921]

I think Temple may have changed this. From what I remember at my interview its just a cut off like you need to have higher than a 90% to get Honors, etc. and that the cutoff score will never be raised and is based on class performance (for example if people do poorly compared to the historical avg. they may lower the cutoff to get Honors, but if you do better than historical avg. they will not raise the cutoff). So my impression was that theoretically, everyone could get Honors at Temple if they wanted to.

Overall, if anyone goes to Temple or Jefferson and doesn't end up doing what they want then the blame falls purely on themselves.

This is absolutely correct and was said to us numerous times between interview and second look. Temple now grades H/P/F for preclinicals and the cutoff for honors is something like 92% and is never curved up, but possibly down based on class average.

And mdeast, I also thought Jeff was considered > Temple but like I said previously, all the doctors I've talked to at my hospital (a community hospital in one of the suburban counties with many, many grads from the 5 Philly med schools on staff) about the fact that I'm going to medical school all said that they now consider Temple to be the better school, though they would have said Jeff years ago, and both are great. That opinion came from several Jeff alums, as well, but it was also unanimous that Jeff and Temple had the best clinical training of all the Philly schools, so again, either choice is completely solid.

 

[shaggy alfresco]

Residency directors rate Jeff students higher than Temple students (US news survey).

I volunteered at Penn and all the doctors there advised me to go to Jeff. However, the doctors at GeekChick's hospital advised her to go to Temple.

So ignore that and make the decision yourself based on where you feel you'll be happiest.

 

[Eponymous]

Residency directors rate Jeff students higher than Temple students (US news survey).

I volunteered at Penn and all the doctors there advised me to go to Jeff. However, the doctors at GeekChick's hospital advised her to go to Temple.

So ignore that and make the decision yourself based on where you feel you'll be happiest.

Completely agree! There' a lot to be said for fit. At the end of the day, you'll still be a great doctor. And job performance is far more important than pedigree anyway.

 

[vicinihil]

I don't see why this is a hard decision at all. While US News and World Report Rankings shouldn't be a deciding factor, it's a factor. We're not speaking of a school ranked 20 vs a school ranked 30. We're speaking of a school ranked 20's vs an essentially unranked school. There's obviously a difference there in quality of students/education/clinicals as well as respect from residency directors. More research money also correlate to stronger faculty and potentially more renowned rendering stronger letters of rec and better teaching.

Going to Jefferson can open more doors for you than going to Temple and Jefferson has much better clinicals as someone alluded to above and therefore matching at Jefferson after medical school wouldn't be such a bad deal. Just my 2 cents.

 

[shaggy alfresco]

Err, I'm choosing Jeff over Temple but Temple used to be unranked - but last two-three years, they've really shot up in the rankings.

Temple is now ranked ~ #45 and Jefferson is ranked ~ #60.....

 

[Hah]

I don't see why this is a hard decision at all. While US News and World Report Rankings shouldn't be a deciding factor, it's a factor. We're not speaking of a school ranked 20 vs a school ranked 30. We're speaking of a school ranked 20's vs an essentially unranked school. There's obviously a difference there in quality of students/education/clinicals as well as respect from residency directors. More research money also correlate to stronger faculty and potentially more renowned rendering stronger letters of rec and better teaching.

Going to Jefferson can open more doors for you than going to Temple and Jefferson has much better clinicals as someone alluded to above and therefore matching at Jefferson after medical school wouldn't be such a bad deal. Just my 2 cents.

False in more ways than one.

Jefferson was never ranked in the 20's.
Temple has been ranked for the past two years, both years being ahead of Jefferson.
This year Temple jumped 7 spots while Jefferson plummetted 6.
Temple is 45, Jefferson is 60.


Anyways. I say go to the one that offers you the most money or go to the one you enjoyed the most during your second look day ! I enjoyed both schools during my interview days and essentially the only difference was the location and buildings. I felt the same vibe and mission from both.

 

[shaggy alfresco]

One big reason that made me choose Jeff was the fact that at Temple, you do have to be cognizant of the time of day and personal safety. It's fine during the day and if you're careful, nothing will happen....but at Jeff you simply don't have to worry about A) commuting, and B) being unsafe at any time. Temple and Jeff both have new buildings, but Temple's is certainly 'shinier'. Temple also offers three or four clinical campuses if you're interested in moving somewhere else for the last two years. Jeff has the option to do all your rotations in Delaware for the last two years if you choose. In the end, the convenience of not having to commute and the better vibe I got won me over, but your experience may differ. Though residency directors rate Jeff higher, and overall Rankings have Temple higher, I seriously advice against using either of those to pick your school. They are similar enough so that the 'other' qualities should be the deciding factor - as they were for me.

 

[n3xa]

Don't travel alone at night, even if you're just walking to Erie station. I would think you will usually have other students commuting down to CC with you, but if not I know you can request a Temple security escort to the station.

This is comforting to know. Philly is one of the few cities I have yet to visit and while I've heard stories about the crime there and I'm generally street-smart, having security do stuff like this is nice, especially after a late night in the library.